ALLIANZ MALAYSIA BHD
KLSE (MYR): ALLIANZ (1163)
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Last Price
20.22
Today's Change
0.00 (0.00%)
Day's Change
20.08 - 20.26
Trading Volume
21,900
IPO Info
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Share Capital
0.000
No of Shares
Public Issue
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Private Placement
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Discussions
7 people like this. Showing 50 of 1,460 comments
Heard from insider that 50% of people break the contract, as they cannot afford to continue paying the premium. Then they will get back less than half of their invested amount. I guess that's the most profitable part for the insurer?
2024-04-24 05:11
It could be true that maybe 20% people lapse the contract in first year (in this year), and probably get back less than half of initial premium paid. I don't think it will over 50%, even the most lousy tier 3 insurers also have better persistency. And no, insurers do not profit from this. BNM actually prohibits insurers to profit in this manner. Agents that "profit" from it, even if a whole life ILP only lasts for one year, the first year ~40% commission still need to pay to agents.
2024-04-24 09:15
wsb how is the refund calculated? if i've invested 100k, then got retrenched & need to stop the policy. do I get back 100k minus agent commission? I think there's a penalty. Do you know how much is that?
2024-04-24 11:30
Exact % varies by product, but in most case, you will not able to get back any commission paid, and some expenses incurred (typically relatively negligible, except for small ticket size policy).
2024-04-24 11:48
wsb if allianz were to redeem it's preference share. is it 1 pref share to 1 common share ratio? I found here, but not too sure. https://www.allianz.com.my/content/dam/onemarketing/azmb/wwwallianzcommy/pdf/investor-updates/2011/RightsofICPSHolder.pdf
2024-04-24 19:57
OCBC takes Great Eastern private @ S$25.60 per share, last traded price of S$18.70, embedded value per share = S$36.59.
2024-05-10 14:57
So last traded price is 0.5X EV. Privatisation offer is 0.7X EV.
But if assumptions in the EV methodology are broadly correct, rightfully the net present value of future profits should be roughly the same as the EV, even if there no more new business, right?
Was the market being too pessimistic with Great Eastern, or there are hidden risk in the EV assumptions?
2024-05-11 00:15
If not mistaken, great eastern adopts a very aggressive method to calculate future profit from medical business, something like always reprice 10% annually hence the Pv profit can become very unrealistic (in my view). However, not sure how the normal retail shareholders view it, since they won't have such info.
2024-05-14 16:30
Thanks for your input.
Using today closing price, Allianz total market cap is RM7,694m.
Based on Maybank's input, the Jun 2023 general insurance equity is RM2.5b, and life insurance EV is RM3.5b.
Working backward, assume 1.4X book value for the GI business, the implied value of life business = RM7,694m – RM2.6b*1.4 = RM4,194m, or 4194/3500 = 1.2X EV
I hope Allianz EV methodology is conservative and prudent.
2024-05-14 23:02
Based on NTA of RM28.88, it’s not impossible and surprising. It’s a matter of time. Just be patient and wait.
2024-05-18 12:31
Diluted NTA is just RM14.85.
While it is possible to reach RM30, probably won't happen in 3 years time. RM25 probably max for this year.
2024-05-18 20:13
For IFRS17, will the bond yield fluctuation (which would cause unrealized gain/lost in bonds hold) be factored while calculating the net profit?
What is the impact of the current elevated Malaysia bond yield (as compared to covid time) to an insurance company?
2024-05-18 21:26
Yes, but less volatile vs pre IFRS17.
Short term, negative impact to capital, might reduce ability to pay dividend etc. Long term, higher yield will have positive impact to future profit.
2024-05-18 23:09
The Edge covers the privatization offer for Great Eastern Holdings (GEH). There are a number of interesting points.
0.7X P/EV is the cheapest acquisition in Singapore in 20 years.
The second cheapest is 2021 HSBC’s acquisition of Axa Singapore life business at 0.8X (incidentally, HSBC Malaysia is Allianz Malaysia banca partner)
GEH was traded at 0.5X P/EV before the acquisition offer. I might be wrong, but I suspect one reason for the low valuation was the low liquidity prior to the offer. OCBC already controlled 89% and a few other shareholders are long term investors like Sg Bagan. Sometimes only a few thousand shares traded in a day. Similar situation to Allianz just not long ago.
While OCBC moves further towards a financial supermarket model that include banking and insurance, DBS and UOB believe otherwise as they believe insurance “manufacturing” and distribution require different core competences.
If I look at Malaysia, our largest bank Maybank owns Etiqa and until now has no plan to float it. A looser arrangement is Hong Leong Bank distributing for HLA which is sister company.
So who is right?
2024-05-18 23:43
No right or wrong. But need to know product strategy and maximise bancassurance channel. Etiqa as example, become top 6 purely with bancassurance, but another Tokio Marine, struggle to have meaningful market share with RHB bancassurance. HLA got mix of agency and banca, not sure with the split.
2024-05-19 01:08
Berkshire Hathaway announced it has acquired 6% of Chubb.
The EPS has climbed from $10 in 2016 to $22.5 in 2023, a CAGR of 12%. But despite share price increase, Chubb is currently priced at 12X forward PE. The valuation looks reasonable even though it was said that good years might have peaked.
Next I looked up Allianz SE, the forward PE is only 10-11X. Dividend yield is above 5%.
Although developed countries may have slower growth rate, but matured market may enjoy higher valuation. These two large insurers don't look expensive if compared with Malaysian counterparts.
2024-05-19 12:42
@wsb_investor,
I looked up the last 12 month results of a few Bursa insurers.
Company, Net Profit, Latest Equity, ROE
MNRB, 428m, 1334m, 3%
Manulife, 77m, 1270m, 6%
Allianz, 731m, 5141m, 14%
LPI, 341m, 2211m, 15%
STMKB, 347m, 1679m, 21%
They are in different sub-segments - P&C, life, or both; some conventional, some Takaful. But regardless of sub-segment, ROE measures how efficient the company is in deploying shareholder capital.
Not too surprised to find that Allianz and LPI are “better” than MNRB and Manulife.
But STMKB remains a puzzle. Post IFRS17, ROE declined a bit, but still above 20%, the highest among peers.
Is STMKB really the most efficient insurer when it comes to the use of shareholder equity? Do takaful operators need lesser capital as compared with conventional?
Any idea?
2024-05-20 15:43
In fact, in a way yes, for single premium product, there is 0 capital upfront. For ILP (regardless if conventional or takaful), there will be a strain, and a limit of how much can sell at a point.
So, in theory, say if we got 1.4bil population, STMB can immediately sell 45x of MRTA, but Allianz probably can only sell 3x of ILP before being restricted by the capital.
However, this is not meaningful at all. And similarly focus on ROE is not meaningful as well. MRTA is good, profitable business, but in the end, still restricted by how many new house loan by your bank partner.
2024-05-27 01:33
@wsb_investor you worked in mgmt at insurance company or were you an actuary?
2 months ago
@observatory you are a very pro investor indeed. But you got one thing wrong: Some insurance companies have low ROE due to their riskier underwriting and markdown on investments. Especially re-insurers. So let's say you have one year of higher claims and cat losses, the combined ratio will shoot up, and ROE stays flat if investment returns also remain flat.
2 months ago
Entire forum suddenly became quiet. What the heck is wrong with yall
2 months ago
@observatory I guess there's no impact. the tie up would benefit the mother company Allianz SE
2 months ago
800k of ICPS have just been converted into ordinary shares.
ICPS provides 20% extra dividend but harder to sell. For 800k volume, if they cannot be sold in blocks, it’s better to convert into ordinary shares rather than sold at a discount to ordinary shares.
Based on shareholding information, I guess the shareholder is either EPF, or one of the Public or AHAM funds.
1 month ago
New RBC framework just out yesterday, effectively 2027, but will have immediate impact on product mix starting next year.
1 month ago
Many hoo-ha with co-payment medical insurance recently. Insurers are already moving away from cashless, yet some doctor association/consumer group jump out and said, cashless is better. Many people don't see the point that, the saving in premium, will higher than the deductible in just 2-3 years time. You might need to fork out RM500 or RM1000 for admission, but you save back premium (and hidden commission) in 2-3 years. There is no free lunch, for everyone, but dropping the cashless feature, will introduce a great saving immediately.
1 month ago
For many white collar office job, you (and maybe your family) already covered by your employer's group insurance. There is no real need for you to have a cashless medical insurance.
1 month ago
Allianz has announced a pre-conditional voluntary cash general offer to acquire at least 51% of the shares of Income Insurance, subject to regulatory approval. Allianz intends to offer $40.58 per share for a total transaction value of approximately $2.2 billion (approximately EUR 1.5 billion) for 51% of the shares in Income Insurance. The offer price represents a premium over Income's NAV of $29.55 per share of 37.3%.
1 month ago
The business could be supported by the newly set up shared IT services in Malaysia. But any possible synergy with Allianz Malaysia?
1 month ago
Allianz already has some existing shared service in Malaysia, but in a very weird arrangement.
1 month ago
If my understanding is correct, Allianz will loan out its internal staff (under a single entity), as shared service to other BUs, and get to profit from it. A more common way is, shared service will operate as a separated entity (might or might not under local BU, typically not under local BU, but directly under Group).
1 month ago
I see. Maybe for non-IT staffs. For IT they transferred the majority of Malaysian staffs to the new regional delivery center Allianz Technology Sdn Bhd
1 month ago
but shared service is very small business, unlikely to improve Allianz mas earning
1 month ago
Only after reading yesterday news that I realize Prudential parent company owns just 51% * 50.99% = 26% of Prudential Assurance Malaysia Bhd.
If Prudential can’t obtain greater control as per Federal Court’s decision, wouldn’t it discourage Prudential from growing its Malaysian market?
How would Prudential agents react?
3 weeks ago
No，Pru plc owns 51% of PAMB. If bumi proxy can just anyhow songlap foreigner share, I think discourage Prudential from growing MY market is the least concern.
Before 1998, Pru plc owned 30% of PAMB, Berjaya owned ~69%. In 1998, Berjaya divested in PAMB, and supposedly sold all ownership back to Pru plc. However due to insurance act 1996, Pru plc cannot, on paper, own 100%, hence the Detik Ria (30% @ 1998) as bumi proxy. Vincent Tan personally also hold 19% of PAMB share at this point, only later (unknown when), sold the 19% to Detik Ria. Pru plc has signed some put and call options on the ownership of Detik Ria (i.e. fixed price) that it will repurchase back the ownership at later time.
Later in ~2017, BNM (or government) started to want to enforce the foreign ownership (now 70%), Pru plc then planned to get back the 49% and then disinvest accordingly. This Tommy, used the excuse that not getting MoF approval, but ignoring that BNM has given the approval. Next time how? listen to who? MoF or BNM?
Who is enforcing the 70%? BNM. From the article, BNM also ok with Pru plc approach, to get back 100% of share, and proceed with disinvestment accordingly. Then suddenly, VT and Tommy, come out with this idea, to songlap Pru plc ownership.
3 weeks ago
Prudential is not the only company that foreign owns 100% via bumi proxy. GE has gotten exemption. AIA has approval from white house, probably no one dare to touch. HLA and Etiqa are local. Allianz/Manulife are listed. Sunlife/MCIS/Generali/FWD/AmMetlife all have local partner. Zurich and Tokio Marine probably still 100% foreigner own, with proxy.
3 weeks ago
The Federal Court ruling cannot be further appealed. Wonder what can Prudential do. Negotiate and pay?
3 weeks ago
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wsb_investor
technically, yes, you can do that too, but most of the time, after repricing, your total premium will increase, say to 1200 (400 to life, 800 to medical), then to 1600 (400 to life, 1200 to medical) and so on.
2024-04-23 09:04