Good Articles to Share
kcchongnz vs otb - Does fundamental value investing not work? +++ Very good discussion
Posted by kcchongnz > Jun 6, 2015 07:56 PM | Report Abuse
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 06:18 PM | Report Abuse
I do not want people to twist my facts, please note the change.
To win big in stock market, FA alone will not work. You need a combination of market psychology, TA, FA and sectors to focus.
But this portfolio posted here did win big, didn't it?
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 09:23 PM | Report Abuse
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 06:18 PM | Report Abuse X
I do not want people to twist my facts, please note the change.
To win big in stock market, FA alone will not work. You need a combination of market psychology, TA, FA and sectors to focus.
I also use FA to invest, but it contribute only 25% of my total consideration. I focus more on TA.
If FA is very good, technical chart is a down trending stock, I will not buy this stock even the margin of safety is very high.
I am not a long term investor, I want high growth stock so that my ROI is very high in every year.
Thank you.
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 09:26 PM | Report Abuse
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_2015/77687.jsp
To me, this is called win big.
Thank you.
Posted by kcchongnz > Jun 6, 2015 09:32 PM | Report Abuse
But that is only 51.55%. The portfolio in this article is 120%.
Or are you implying 6 months 51%, so two and a half year 51%*5 = 255%?
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 09:26 PM | Report Abuse
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_2015/77687.jsp
To me, this is called win big.
Thank you.
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 09:38 PM | Report Abuse
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/41947.jsp
59% in 5 months. This is called win big. 11.7% per month.
Thank you.
Posted by kcchongnz > Jun 6, 2015 09:44 PM | Report Abuse
Oh, so the comparison of return is based on per month? I must have missed something because all the time I see record of return is in the form of annual compounded return over a long period of time. Good to learn a new metric.
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 09:58 PM | Report Abuse
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kianweiaritcles/68226.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/41947.jsp
Let the readers here be the judge, not your words or my words.
I do not want to show off here, you started it.
I just post my opinion in VS forum, you take it so seriously.
Thank you.
Posted by kcchongnz > Jun 6, 2015 10:04 PM | Report Abuse
Have I said anything like this before knowing that you are teaching TA?
"To be successful in stock market, TA alone will not work.”
Posted by kcchongnz > Jun 6, 2015 10:08 PM | Report Abuse
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 09:58 PM | Report Abuse
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kianweiaritcles/68226.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/41947.jsp
Good comparison. I would like to get to Tan KW to ask him what is the purpose of putting up my portfolio. Is it to challenge you, or he just put that up for sharing purpose.
Is investment an endeavor to challenge to see who get the highest 6 months return, or is it a mean of building long term wealth?
Tan: @kc, you should have your answer...... you and otb is the pioneer to start this friendly competition to let investor to exchange idea....... Aiya, my result is very very lousy..... can throw to longkang laaa - http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/41637.jsp
Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jun 6, 2015 10:08 PM | Report Abuse
At least I am honest and frank to say that TA alone will not work. I had said it many times here. You need TA to combine with FA.
I had also mentioned in I3, you are the best FA sifu here. The best of the best.
I learn most of my FA from you.
The sifu I learn is always my sifu for life.
I also encourage all the readers to attend your class.
At least I know you have a small heart.
Thank you.
Posted by kcchongnz > Jun 6, 2015 10:21 PM | Report Abuse
Mr Ooi,
We are discussing issues, not about people (that I have a small heart). The issue is about this statement:
"To be successful in stock market, FA alone will not work.”
You know I have been posting articles in i3investor, all talking about FA. You know I have been teaching FA to cari makan because can't win big in the stock market to survive.
So we just discuss issue, nothing personal. Don't always get angry fight.
Thanks very much for your positive statement about me. If I have offended you, please accept my apology.
Tan: And, some judgment from others that make sense....
Posted by tc88 > Jun 6, 2015 10:29 PM | Report Abuse
Different strategy is ok as long as can make more money.....Dont be too proud of own strategy...
Posted by NOBY > Jun 6, 2015 10:46 PM | Report Abuse
It depends on the time horizon. FA alone can work but maybe not in the short term. Sound fundamental investing techniques will work out in the long term. We have so many examples of successful fund managers using FA methods. I have not heard about Seth Klarman, Joel Greeblatt or Warren Buffett looking at charts before they make their purchase.
Personally, when I first started embarking on investment, I tried learning TA and it just wasn't right for someone like me who cant be staring at the screen all day to cut loss, buy on break -out, bullish divergence etc. Frankly speaking it was damn stressful.
And then I learnt the FA method and it just rang all the right bells in my head. It was simple to understand, intuitive and logical way of investing, looking at companies as bussiness with intrinsic values attached to it. It was a method I could apply without having to spend too much time and too much stress.
I m not saying that TA is not good, but it was just my personal experience. I know that my performance may not be as good as those who use TA or buy only up trending stocks, but at least I believe that in the long run, things will work out for me.
Posted by Icon8888 > Jun 6, 2015 11:12 PM | Report Abuse
I am a pure fundamental based investor. Let me tell you something - everybody else's TA doesn't work, only OTB's TA works.
I know this because I have attended his course before. As such, I know what his TA is about.
The TA that everybody else uses try to predict how share price will move by looking at trend and pattern. This kind of TA 99% of the time will die. The reason is because it is too complicated, requires too many subjective judgement
OTB's TA is different, he uses a licensed software to detect Breakout point.
His TA's focus is to detect a Buy signal. He doesn't try to predict how the price will move up and go down.
As his objective and method used is simple, it works very well in predicting when the share price is about to rise, hence the right time to enter.
That is why he has been so successful.
Posted by sunztzhe > Jun 6, 2015 11:12 PM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz and OTB..come on guys..just relax and chill out..!!!
The financial discipline of FA will determine the INTRINSIC WORTH of any company under study...there are varying methodologies but they all share the same objective in determining the intrinsic worth of any company under study although the intrinsic values may differ based on different methodology and/or different assumptions using the same methodology. Nevertheless the main objective is to determine a VALUE for the intrinsic worth of the company under study..
Having determined a VALUE, the next decision is WHEN TO BUY or WHEN TO SELL???
At any point in time the market price maybe undervalued or overvalued versus the determined INTRINSIC WORTH ....so a savvy FA investor will buy when the market price is below the intrinsic value and sell when the market price is higher than its intrinsic worth. A savvy FA investor will accumulate investment capital/sell overvalued stocks and wait for the opportunity to buy undervalued stocks. A savvy FA investor requires financial skillsets to determine value, patience to wait for opportunity to buy or sell
A short term TA trader usually utilize Daily Chart patterns,1 min , 5 min etc candlestick chart, TA indicators, Price Volume action plus other advanced algorithm to buy at low/relative low and sell at high/relative high...the stocks traded may be Fundamental stocks or it may just be non fundamental momentum stocks or stocks where the fundamentals has yet to translated into future results or in process of being factored in market price...the short term trader will follow the main operator and ride along with the main operator to make the trading profits. However not anyone can be a successful trader as it takes a certain mindset to be a successful trader..I know of friends who are competent in TA knowledge, loves to trade but lack the mindset or killer instinct to be a successful trader. So they end up as losers.
There is another way of investing which we all know from Mr Koon Yew Yin who honed his investment experience through a businessman perspective...buy when a company is making profits, increasing profits/increasing EPS with PE much lesser than 10
Posted by sunztzhe > Jun 6, 2015 11:40 PM | Report Abuse
FA alone can work if one has the competent skillsets to determine the intrinsic worth. If one does not have the competent skillsets then FA will not work. The key question is having acquired the skillsets, does one has the patience and the discipline of mindset to wait for the opportunity to buy at undervalued price or sell overvalued stocks...
Likewise it takes a certain trading mindset to be a successful trader...even though one is competent in TA trading knowledge...basically its about reading trend directions, price relative to certain moving averages, supports/resistances and oversold/overbought status
Whether it is FA or TA investors, the common problem is they know how to buy but dunno when to sell...or they love their stocks so much that they cannot part with it...
Posted by Icon8888 > Jun 6, 2015 11:40 PM | Report Abuse
KC, FA alone, without any TA, WILL WORK
I am 10000% sure
Posted by Icon8888 > Jun 6, 2015 11:43 PM | Report Abuse
The person I know doesn't use TA at all, but he makes tones of money
He uses FA only
Posted by Icon8888 > Jun 6, 2015 11:46 PM | Report Abuse
A good FA investor must have one very important criteria - hold long term
And he doesn't need to score on every stock. If he can have a few multibagger, he is home
Posted by Intelligent Investor > Jun 6, 2015 11:53 PM | Report Abuse X
I think we have to know what is our target return and then based on this to determine the stock selection and fund allocation.
We need to remember why we need to invest? What is our goal?
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/intelligent_investor_notes/53832.jsp
Buy and hold a good fundamental stock when price is cheap should able to provide investor a CAGR of 15% - 20%. Or, it maybe a more. Do check out the records for Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch.
If someone aim to earn more return (to beat Warren Buffett). A combination of TA, FA, trend and machine gun (the margin) would need to come into picture. Maybe, Mr Ooi can advise what's his return (in CAGR) for the pass 20 years. So, we can use this as a guideline.
I believe both approach have different risk profile. And, we have to remember High-Risk Investments Not For Amateurs. Do you think it is so easy to beat Warren?
If we can earn a good living with a CAGR of 15% - 20% (W.B. CAGR is only a 26%, and he is the world third wealthiest person), do we need to take extra risk?
Posted by ks55 > Jun 7, 2015 12:00 AM | Report Abuse
Most important thing to invest in stock market is to make money.
If you think TA alone can ensure you make fast money. Go ahead.
If you think FA alone can ensure you make money over long term. Go ahead.
If you think TA/FA can make money. Go ahead.
If you think you are more comfortable FA/TA. Go ahead.
JUST MAKE SURE YOU WON'T LOSE MONEY.
OR
AT LEAST MAKE MONEY 9 OUT OF 10 COUNTERS YOU BUY
Posted by Intelligent Investor > Jun 7, 2015 12:06 AM | Report Abuse X
Whatever is it, no one can say FA alone won't work. Maybe we can say FA alone won't able to provide a very high return - I am interest to know what will be the number?
I think we need to have a longer record to check out the return of both approach.
The value investing (FA) player - Warren Buffett, Peter Lynch, Philip Fisher, and Joel Greenbaltt have a return of 20% - 30% p.a. (CAGR) in their portfolio.
Can I have the name and the portfolio return for FA + TA + Margin player? So, we can use this as a proxy to see what is the return p.a. (CAGR).
We can use above return as a guide and make decision which path to follow.
Tan: George Soros?
Posted by pisanggoreng > Jun 7, 2015 10:13 AM | Report Abuse
Why simple thing make it so complicated.
TA and FA are two different things complementing each other in an efficient trading. TA without FA is not much better than a trading with luck. FA without TA is no doubt a safe play but must have the patience to wait. Which one you emphasise more depend on what sort of people you are. Some like to walk slowly and arrive at the destination with less risk. Some like to walk fast but higher risk of falling down.I prefer FA more than TA.
That's why I only know KC is a good enough in fact more than enough Sifu for my trading. So far I have no problem to achieve more than 20 % capital gain with more than bank dividend as bonus.
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Discussions
4 people like this. Showing 50 of 65 comments
i see optimuss , tj is good in fifo and i think is the best in fifo in i3 , but as so far i m follow him , i never see him boost himself like many ,in his itchy hse or else where and is quite an honest person , share what he feel without hiding and seldom care about other feeling as long as he thought he is right . that the reason i salute him . thanks and that just my feeling , and pls dont visit itchy itchy if you dont like his style .
2015-06-07 14:10
usually the issues with debates on any topic is that...
1.) People dont even define the exact point they are arguing in the first place...people assume and simply hantam...
2.) The quality opinions can get drowned by rains of poor quality statements/invalid/candies...to an extent that the outcome of the debates gets nowhere..:(...
(after all thats how voting system works...and majority get easily convinced by some 'candies' before voting...and they dont realize they will be suffering from diabetes later..actually some will never realize).
my conclusion is sometimes we have to give up the fact we are arguing...as the way the world works - including neurons in our brain is based on 'voting strength'...quite less dependent on the validity of the argument/logic...but simply by:
- the frequency of assertion ,
- simplicity of the opinion,
- and feelings of assurance they provide by their confidence
- plus the prior 'conditioning' of ones own mind....
the latter inputs can easily be provide by con artist..politicians...and religious ulama. Thats why u can see in country like syria fighting to kill another of their own blood lines...simply due to difference in belief...though this may sound completely illogical for some.
Some religion had even suppressed the basic questioning by logic on their beliefs...so the neurons have no chance of thinking out of the box.
atleast i3 is preventing the suppression scenario above - how reliefed i am! :)
from: 'just a neuron trying to assert'
2015-06-07 14:14
Posted by optimuss1 > Jun 7, 2015 01:16 PM | Report Abuse
Agree. why top 2 keep quiet? The rest of competitors(Ooi TB, fortunebullz, Icon8888, tj hldg, etc) keep making noise like they are the one leading.
Answer : My bro! I think you are making the most noise without ever competing! Hiding behind different id to attack me is so un brotherly!
2015-06-07 14:16
Fortunebullz, He is not your bro lah. Stop pretending that he will one day be nice to you. He is a vicious person that don't know how to handle interpersonal relationship
2015-06-07 14:22
Posted by Icon8888 > Jun 7, 2015 02:22 PM | Report Abuse
Fortunebullz, He is not your bro lah. Stop pretending that he will one day be nice to you. He is a vicious person that don't know how to handle interpersonal relationship
Answer : Icon! Optimus used to praise me but I fook him for making personal attack on you! I am in non quarrel mode for the whole 2015!
2015-06-07 14:25
Posted by Icon8888 > Jun 7, 2015 02:24 PM | Report Abuse
Grow some backbones, don't always try to accommodate him
Answer : I prefer to let the toothless doggies attack! I learn from Najib!
2015-06-07 14:27
Not trying to attack u
you are a nice guy. I am sad to see you get intimidated by him and always try to pacify him
In my opinion, no need so nice to him. Just whack him when he is rude.
Ha ha
2015-06-07 14:33
Dear all handsome powerful Icon8888, fortunebullz, F22Raptor, Ah Seng, opstimuss1 and ks55
sorry! out topic a bit.....
Can I ask whether we should settle the Majlis Perbandaran Petaling Jaya saman within 14 days? I received the surat macam wanna catch me to court..............
I ask many peoples, now is 50%-50% some say must pay because they already link to JPJ....some say 2 terms MPPJ will change contractor...
Any idea from all handsome men here???
Thanks......
newbie in saman sector(new to KL/Selangor)
2015-06-07 14:34
Duit! Basically I just ignore them! How many haul to court! How many blacklisted through JPJ! But I do pay once discounts are offered! Wink wink!
2015-06-07 14:37
Duit for Christ sake, go and settle the summon lah. It only cost 0.0000000001% of what u make from the market every week
2015-06-07 14:37
fortunebullz and Icon8888...
I got two saman for now.... Usually I jarang kena saman and ponteng SAMAN.... but now seem like will link to JPJ.....
really must pay ar????? cannot BET luck ar?
2015-06-07 14:40
ohhhhhh OK... fortune and Icon....
think will settle it.... I scared they come n tow my Proton Wira Warna Dark Blue Tahun 12.
Later I will cry no tears..................
thanks for all valuable advise..... appreciate it.
you two reply at the same time 02:37pm... As a professional, I advise both of you buy RM150 BIG and RM150 SMAll kuda or damacai or magnum 0237............. see tonight can kena BIG bo?????
2015-06-07 14:44
wakakakaka......U use ur own fortune and I support U with "duit"...
tonight I wanna count ur money....... hope U make BIG
2015-06-07 14:48
fortune and Icon....
if U guys make BIG from DURSA please treat me 1 claypot curry fish... + sugar cane drink
2015-06-07 14:48
Fortunebullz and Icon8888,
Please received my 0237 analysis. Done qualitative analysis for U all...
Happy BETTING!
http://huataah.com/magnum/4d/analysis/IBet/details/0237
http://www.4dmanager.com/statistics?no=0237
2015-06-07 14:56
Posted by optimuss1 > Jun 7, 2015 01:16 PM | Report Abuse
Agree. why top 2 keep quiet? The rest of competitors(Ooi TB, fortunebullz, Icon8888, tj hldg, etc) keep making noise like they are the one leading.
Ans : For the week ended 5/6/2015, I am the champion. Please check yourself. Get your fact right before you talk.
2015-06-07 15:48
When is the day this game end ?05-06-2015 ?what if u drop out from top 10 end of the year ?don't say won't happen now , let time prove it , only half way now .
BTW optimuss please check the date and price talk cock bull pick his counter.
2015-06-07 16:19
OTB stocks ride on the strength of USD. Last week gains on Hevea-wb, Pohuat and Prlexus. Most likely can be top 3.
2015-06-07 16:27
OTB knows how to capitalize on previaling circumstances to select his stocks n in this case the strengthening USD vs MYR for yr 2015 given the high probability of US raising interest rate.
This is market wisdom.OTB is not pure TA,he is better than that.
2015-06-07 16:36
Ya .. OTB is not purely base on TA , he is good and know the market theme since start of 2015 , just me won't think this export oriented esp.in sunset furniture industry can last more than 2 quarter .. Seem he is right till now :)
Bb55 ..too heavy punt on 1 counter in the game .. Just can say is wish him good luck if in actual trading /investing do like that .
2015-06-07 18:24
hi bro hahaha lang kong na lang pun kong la,i3 a bit boring now ramai disappear liao either sideline or burnt,kesian la.
2015-06-07 18:28
Hahahahahhaha ... Bro ... Ya ... Bo sui la market now ... So many ma chiat pa bo su cho lo ...Hahahaha
Many points here good aeh ... Happy to read it .. Nothing wrong for u to use fa or ta or mix ...as long as u can beat Mr market and lead a good life ma OK Liao lo ... Don't need to condemn ka look down ka ,compare ka on those pakai different method from u aeh ... Paiseh talk here la .. Nanti orang cakap I boost pula .. Hahahahah .. Have a nice day to u and all
2015-06-07 18:34
Mia chai market Kong will start moving becoz Dr M winning on last Friday. He brave and even got10minutes. If winning mean 1Mdb problem can be contain lor in perception losing, 1Mdb problem may continue to play tong tin game where one creditor debt will pass on to next. They say soon HOR 1Mdb can issue more bond to bet on whether it can reduce the debt ratio ...
2015-06-07 18:42
Posted by duitKWSPkita > Jun 7, 2015 02:56 PM | Report Abuse
Fortunebullz and Icon8888,
Please received my 0237 analysis. Done qualitative analysis for U all...
Happy BETTING!
http://huataah.com/magnum/4d/analysis/IBet/details/0237
http://www.4dmanager.com/statistics?no=0237
Answer : Duit! Wow! Not only you are good in bursa but also in Dursa!
2015-06-07 18:47
ya ka?1MDB wanna issue junk bonds ka?who is gonna subscribe?
mkt is not only abt 1MDB,wait for Q2 GDP in early August then u will know the destuctive power of gst..n go check 10 yr US tresury bond yield..n ringgit vs USD rate to name only a few.
2015-06-07 18:50
FA alone works well, when u 1) think of urself as a partial biz owner 2)the mkt is close for X yrs, eg: 5-10yrs, ie u forget abt short-term swing 3)has a long term horizon. This is evidenced by the returns of TSH, Kulim, ijmplant, mah sing, i hold for very very long time though the person who bought for me, entered at a level much higher than i wanted. The return is in high teen excluding dividends for a period of more than 10years.
I didnt follow i3 so tightly, not even OTB/ KCC writing. I dont know what is OTB's ROI pa for 10yrs but in the whole world, for the period >15yrs, not more than 5 ppl have achieve > 35% without leverage or derivatives.
Even with leverage & der
ivatives, only <15 have done that
2015-06-08 08:17
fundamental investing ? look at owg ... from 60 cent to 2.9 within 6 months ... where got fundamental ... that is forecast
2015-06-08 15:51
funny... why waste so much time debating which method is good... the idea is the market is eventually flawed. Even fools can be lucky and rich sometimes, and not all that spend hours and days studying and analyzing companies will eventually succeed. if it was so darn easy, everyone would be rich.
2015-06-08 18:26
Posted by gungho92 > Jun 8, 2015 06:26 PM | Report Abuse
funny... why waste so much time debating which method is good... the idea is the market is eventually flawed. Even fools can be lucky and rich sometimes, and not all that spend hours and days studying and analyzing companies will eventually succeed. if it was so darn easy, everyone would be rich.
What is the percentage of those "fools who were lucky and rich sometimes?" Is it one out of a hundred, or 60 out of 100?
You are right. To make money in the stock market is not easy, especially if you are trading. Trading is a zero sum game, what one wins is the others losses. Imagine if you are trading against the syndicates, insiders, investment bankers. What is the chance you will win?
It is a win-lose situation.
Investing is not a zero sum game. You invest in a good company at good price. The company's business generally grow and earn more money. If you sell, you make your money from buying good company at low price.
The buyer from you will also make money next year, 5 years later, or ten years later as the company's business and earnings will grow.
It is a win-win situation.
Please go to the link here and read why value investing works and see if it makes sense to you. If it does, think about it, it can help you to build long-term wealth.If it doesn't, no need to follow. And you have nothing to lose. so you
Heads you will, tails you don't lose. that is the essence of Fundamental value investing.
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/50988.jsp
2015-06-08 19:11
"Investing is an art". It is difficult to compare Picasso and Leonardo Da Vinci. Both are masters of their own style of paintings.
2015-06-09 00:40
want to compare then compare with WB or cold eye, else just do what we liked, TA or FA, who cares which is better? really...
2015-06-09 14:49
KCChongnz gave positive analysis to Talkcock portfolio, what happen? FA fail is it?
Posted by kcchongnz > Feb 6, 2015 10:46 PM | Report Abuse
While I will not buy many of the stocks in talkcock's portfolio, and it has not been performing well since posting, I would like to give my opinions here:
1) I respect talkcock's picks and I believe he has his good reasons for doing so. Time will tell. But whether they will perform well is actually immaterial to me. It is just some sharing.
2)It is laugable one should judge the return on investment of someone's stock pick in a three week investment period, as investment is a long term endeavour, not a three week punting experience.
3) The prices of the stocks were based on the day the portfolio was put up in i3investor, ie on 17th January 2015, the day when the small and mid cap stocks in Bursa was at his recent high, unfortunately. At least this person is honorable and not trying to fudge his entry prices to look good and then boast around. Many people can see it.
4) Even that his portfolio with a loss of just 0.3%, is not too bad.
5) His pseudo name may be talkcock, but in actual fact, he talks sense, at least that is what I feel.
6) Please you can criticize the stocks he picks with your reasons, and hopefully you are able to, and not engaging in personal attack.
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/1100043171.jsp
2015-06-09 14:50
what is u wannna say kcock ? what analysis that kc give in talkcxxk portfolio ? or your inkeris much much poorer than me so dont understand what kc say ?
i both hands and leg angkat up up to the sky agree to what kc say in this case after i go through the conversation between u and few there and in talkcxxk pass comment in other forum .
and you may try to say i m him also , cause from the way he talk .. i feel i wanna be fren with him also .
kikikiiiiiiiiiii ... hati mau baik .. buat barang mau cantik ...
2015-06-09 15:39
as nonsense as your last posting here ,.. gham gham passby happen to see and chiat pa bo su cho go read read talkcxxk pass comment in other forum and feel somthing then talk talk lo ..
2015-06-09 15:55
paiseh no time liao ...bz liao .. gtg ..esok see me ada mood not .. ada then may comtinue with u aeh ..
kikikiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
2015-06-09 15:57
aiya like this ..gua paiseh pula now ... have a nice day kcock .. wish is me miss understanding you la ..
hahahahahaahah ... happy trading :)gtg ... market sian sian ...rambut panjang waiting ,,, byeee
2015-06-09 16:01
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optimuss1
Perhaps we should go and interview top 2 rather than talk cock here.
2015-06-07 14:02