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Discussions
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what defined good quality of companies?good result?good management?good companies growth?companies that consistent pay dividend?=)
2019-02-11 15:00
good quality companies......good management, excellent market potential, no nasty surprises, good story u can follow/ understand., predictability......
2019-02-11 15:05
I came from the speculation side. After witnessing the crash of 2nd board, tech bubble and US subprime crisis, I am now a believer of investing. Have gone the value investing path. There are a few type of investors, dividend, blue chip, etc..
2019-02-11 19:19
(1) investors are gamblers with calculated bet on the future 'price accounting dividend yield' in a longer time frame..
(2) speculators are exactly the same as above...just that they bet with a shorter time frame...
and what do we mean by 'price'?
..............................
'price' is just what the greater gamblers think at any particular point of time considering its future value....
as such i consider (1) as speculator too....there is no difference between (1) & (2)..except for time frame....the difference is not discrete..but a spectrum based on feel...a general perception.
unless one 'fully experience a DCF from dividends to justify their past purchase price'.....which is usually in a time frame of 20 or 30 years.....we are all speculators....
lets face it
2019-02-11 19:39
icon...if u are like Philips, holding a share for years and adding even....over many years to participate in its growth , that is investing......every thing is speculating/ trading....
fine, u say, just definitions....
no, I say....It's more than definition.....it helps u to make money, make better decisions.
2019-02-11 19:47
lets be long term speculators u mean ...
speculation means a 'calculated bet considering all information available'
Posted by qqq3 > Feb 11, 2019 07:47 PM | Report Abuse
icon...if u are like Philips, holding a share for years and adding even....over many years to participate in its growth , that is investing......every thing is speculating/ trading....
fine, u say, just definitions....
no, I say....It's more than definition.....it helps u to make money, make better decisions.
2019-02-11 19:51
u look at kc/ calvin/raider/ sslee and the rest of the margin of safety gang.......they are not investing...they are also speculating.....speculating that their valuations are more perfect , better than the market valuations....they are not interested in the company......they are speculating they are the smartest kids in the universe.......
2019-02-11 19:54
contrarians makes sense...contrarians have their matrix to fall back on, contrarians aim to make super profits from the changing environment....
they don't even need to value here, value there to make good money...they just needed to be right about the changing environment
2019-02-11 20:08
it will be interesting if they give a list of scenario and let the people choose whether each scenario considered as investing or speculating...and publish the result versus author definition....
example:
1) An uncle buy genting shares purely based on his thinking that genting business will do well in future due to new theme park. Investing or Speculating?
2) An auntie buy public bank because she think that public bank won't die. Investing or Speculating?
etc.....
2019-02-11 20:10
lizi....my definition, uncle and aunty are investing in good quality companies with good reputations
2019-02-11 20:17
here is a very simple video explaining investing and speculating..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTakMDzEl30
a good sign of speculating is you never look at the company's financial strength..
2019-02-11 20:20
Goh Kim Hock here is a very simple video explaining investing and speculating..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTakMDzEl30
==============
I like the first two sentences......speculation is ok, as long as u know what u are doing.....as it turns out, most people are speculating when they think they are investing......
I think definitions are important...it helps in focusing the mind.....and u know what you are doing....
"a good sign of speculating is you never look at the company's financial strength.." A deep understanding, a true understanding always helps, whether one is speculating or investing......It would be foolish to put in a lot of money without deep understanding.
For investors, the direction of the growth in revenue/ profits is certainly more important than the NTA/PE....Margin of safety comes from your understanding and no nasty surprises, not from discounts to NTA or low PE ( the yardstick of i3 margin of safety players kc, raider, calvin and SSlee)
2019-02-11 22:28
So it is confirm that raider margin of safety on insas is investing mah...!!
People like 3iii & Philip are speculating that their overvalue NESTLE and QL at overvalue PE 50x will continue to grow...to justify their decision to hold mah.....!!
Posted by qqq3 > Feb 11, 2019 10:28 PM | Report Abuse
Goh Kim Hock here is a very simple video explaining investing and speculating..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTakMDzEl30
==============
I like the first two sentences......speculation is ok, as long as u know what u are doing.....as it turns out, most people are speculating when they think they are investing......
I think definitions are important...it helps in focusing the mind.....and u know what you are doing....
"a good sign of speculating is you never look at the company's financial strength.." A deep understanding, a true understanding always helps, whether one is speculating or investing......It would be foolish to put in a lot of money without deep understanding.
For investors, the direction of the growth in revenue/ profits is certainly more important than the NTA/PE....Margin of safety comes from your understanding and no nasty surprises, not from discounts to NTA or low PE ( the yardstick of i3 margin of safety players kc, raider, calvin and SSlee)
2019-02-11 22:39
d by stockraider > Feb 11, 2019 10:43 PM | Report Abuse
Put it properly.
==========
yours is a common beginners's mistake......
2019-02-11 22:45
Put it properly...if u buy something with no with no margin safety or overvalue & hoping to make monies...u r speculating loh....!!
If u buy something....supported with deep undervaluation...u r investing loh.....!!
Posted by stockraider > Feb 11, 2019 10:39 PM | Report Abuse X
So it is confirm that raider margin of safety on insas is investing mah...!!
People like 3iii & Philip are speculating that their overvalue NESTLE and QL at overvalue PE 50x will continue to grow...to justify their decision to hold mah.....!!
2019-02-11 22:50
U need to see whether it is fact or fluid mah...!!
Like insas...big nett cash...high nta...pays div...low PE...all these are hard facts....so if u use this info...to buy with margin of safety, u r investing loh..!!
Like QL...high PE...high borrowing...low dividend....these are facts, despite the negative fact info if u continue to buy or hold...u r speculating....this stock will continue to grow to support the high overvalue price loh...!!
2019-02-11 22:56
investing, trading, speculating, except pure gambling.....are calculated bets based on certain inputs....
now these actions above have their own respective inputs (perception) to justify their action as per the anticipated direction & magnitude the price will move....
those which has greater certainty indirectly means lower volatility (e.g investing based on the inputs of financial report evaluation)...some has high uncertainty meaning higher volatility (e.g, speculation based on news)...
but none can give the certainty that one is superior than the other...
investors are constantly fighting with other investors on valuation, just like traders or constantly fighting with other traders to read the charts, and so do the speculators using the media...
how are we to conclude which method (which inputs-whose perception) is better..or superior?
we cant.
.......
it always boils down to your edge against others....
2019-02-11 23:07
There are no 100% profitability toward investing term because investing are risky activity. There r no such 100% earning on investing. That is y we are being taught to diversify into few type of share. As long you are following the trend of the future business and aware of the business cycle. I think we are ok.
2019-02-11 23:18
by probability > Feb 11, 2019 11:07 PM | Report Abuse
investing, trading, speculating, except pure gambling.....are calculated bets based on certain inputs....
=========
the attitude is important.....how many to buy is important, Q is important.
the reasons and the time horizon is important......if one want to participate in the growth of companies, obviously must give enough time......
2019-02-11 23:21
icon...if u are like Philips, holding a share for years and adding even....over many years to participate in its growth , that is investing......every thing else is speculating/ trading....
fine, u say, just definitions....
no, I say....It's more than definition.....it helps u to make money, make better decisions.
2019-02-12 02:18
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This book is the result of the author's many years of experience and observation throughout his 26 years in the stockbroking industry. It was written for general public to learn to invest based on facts and not on fantasies or hearsay....
qqq3
In investing, you want to part to participate in the growth of good quality companies......every thing else is speculating/ trading........
2019-02-11 14:52