Koon Yew Yin's Blog
The costs and returns to medical education? Koon Yew Yin
Koon Yew Yin
Publish date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016, 07:51 AM
Koon Yew Yin
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An official blog in i3investor to publish sharing by Mr. Koon Yew Yin.
All materials published here are prepared by Mr. Koon Yew Yin
All materials published here are prepared by Mr. Koon Yew Yin
Since the publication of my scholarships offer to help students whose parents are earning less than Rm 4,000 per month a few days ago, my wife has received more than 50 applications for financial help and most of the applicants want to pursue a medical degree which cost the most.
The sole purpose of writing this article is to help inform students who wish to study medicine not to apply for my financial assistance.
There are 40 Medical Colleges and about 500 University and Colleges in Malaysia. All of them are lowering their entry requirement to compete for more students.
Tuition Fee for a Medical Degree in Malaysia is between Rm 250,000 to one million Ringgit:
Among the cheapest are University Tunku Abdul Rahman (UTAR): RM255,000 and AIMST University: RM250,000.
Among the mid range are: Asia Metropolitan University (AMU): RM300,000
MAHSA University College: RM300,000
Malacca Manipal Medical College (MMMC): RM348,000, Monash University Sunway: RM455,000
Newcastle University Medicine Malaysia (NuMED): RM450,000
Among the more expensive are: Penang Medical College: RM650,000
Perdana University offers the following: Royal College of Surgeons Ireland: RM800,000,
John Hopkins University Schools of Medicine: RM1,000,000
All the above mentioned fees exclude accommodation, books, traveling costs, food and other expenses which could easily add another RM100,000 to the total cost of studying medicine.
A student will require at least Rm 350,000 to complete a medical degree. Assuming he can get Rm 150,000 PTPTN loan, he will still require Rm 250,000.
Is it really worth pursuing a medical degree in Malaysia with such high fees?
It is compulsory for all medical graduates to practice in a government hospital for five years to complete their housemanship.
During this period their salary ranges between RM2,600 to RM4,000. As housemen they work for a minimum of 12 to 15 hours a day. After two years, their salary increases gradually to Rm 4,000 per month.
When they are promoted as medical officers their salaries range between RM4,500 to RM5,000. After the final year they have an option to continue their career in the government service or private concerns.
However, after 12 years and spending a minimum of Rm 350,000, is it worth just to earn RM5,000 to RM6,000 per month as a doctor?
They must remember that they have to pay back the Rm 150,000 PTPTN loan at Rm 2,000 per month for about 20 years.
A good alternative proposal:
I like to suggest students to consider other courses such as accountancy, finance, engineering, marketing, etc. The tuition fee for a one year foundation course is Rm 8,500 and for a 3 years degree course is about Rm 38,000 in UTAR. The fees for all Government Universities are less than Rm 20,000 for a degree course.
All students whose parents are earning less than Rm 4,000 per month can apply for my scholarships worth Rm 15,500 to cover the one year foundation course fee and the cost of living. After the completion of the foundation course, all students are entitled to receive PTPTN Government loan to complete their degree courses.
Since I made the offer to consider helping students who find the PTPTN not sufficient, my wife has received more than 50 applications in 2 days and most of the applicants want to study medicine. We found that most of the applicants are not realistic. They are poor and with poor results they want to study medicine.
With the PTPTN loan, the parents need to subsidize a small amount to complete their degree courses with the exception of medical degree. If the parents are really poor, I am willing to consider helping them. My offer to help students doing degree courses has open the door for all students in the country. But the students must be realistic. In any case, we reserve the right to reject any application for financial help.
Note: All scholarship recipients do not need to work for me or pay back the money I spent on them. But they must promise me that they will remember I helped them when they are poor and when they are financially solvent they must help other poor students. I believe many graduates will continue to help poor students when I die. Since I started offering scholarships about 10 years ago, I have given out about 300 scholarships and a large number of the recipients have graduated.
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Discussions
14 people like this. Showing 50 of 96 comments
on the top of this article, you can see Manipal medical university is offering scholarships for the foundation course. It is giving a discount to capture more students. Its tuition fee is Rm 345,000. It is like the advertisement for condominium aircon and fridge are free of charge: Koon Yew Yin
2016-01-10 15:01
I am totally with you, probability
When they are young and top top students, and the parents are from poor and middle class families, it is normal that all of them are brain washed into only wanting medicine, and nothing else.
Slaves to the system
Better are those above the system..and look down realistically.
2016-01-10 15:05
That is what it is, and advertisements with free air cons are still being practiced......must be because it works.
(on the top of this article, you can see Manipal medical university is offering scholarships for the foundation course. It is giving a discount to capture more students. Its tuition fee is Rm 345,000. It is like the advertisement for condominium aircon and fridge are free of charge: Koon Yew Yin)
2016-01-10 15:08
Drop out from Harvard seems prerequisite for success in Silicon Valley.
2016-01-10 15:37
In Malaysia, all the assistance is focused on those with straight As....probably true else where too.
I for one, don't think the straight As are divine beings, and the straight As are assessed by who? By our Education Ministry officers with their ridiculous syllabus and tests?
The real tragedy is not top top students cannot doctors. The real tragedy is that our Ministry has made a mess of the whole system.
The present generation from the poor do not have the upwards mobility of the previous generation.
And the top top students are not even the best of their generation. I have no faith in the government exams and government assessments of the students.
2016-01-10 15:57
ya luk at the syllabus....Moral education...History education...
all pointless!
2016-01-10 16:03
If always only look at profit and loss before choosing a course..maybe most will be uneducated already & there wont be any doctor
Education is one of the best long term investment one can get unless he or she prefer working at mcdonalds or 7 eleven
2016-01-10 16:11
All one needs is ONE language (English please), Maths...Science (especially physics), and Business....this one what KC teach is already good enough...
The rest you will be learning when you work.
So far I have only applied 5% of what I have learned in my working life.... what a waste of time in Education.
Imagine the impact of Education investment of 15 years if you had invested the same amount with a CAGR of 15%!
2016-01-10 16:12
People had unnecessarily made the syllabus large for the objective of selecting the best for certain course...it purely arose due to competition. One can access the best with same limited subjects...by making it deeper or better still lessen the competition by providing more institution / support for tertiary education.
Seriously...this is planet of the apes.
2016-01-10 16:16
Back in the good old days , the smarter ones usually get to study doctor, lawyer or engineer.. the bums maybe take business and accounting..
The bums may earn more than the doctor , lawyer or engineer - depends what path they take
2016-01-10 16:16
when u say smart...its all relative. The one you say smart in absolute sense is dumb ass in another country...
So stop segregating by this properties...instead make the assessment based on the students ability to deliver the job.
One needs not an IQ 180 to be an engineer or doctor...
You can see many tudung doctors in Malaysia (they can still do the job!).
2016-01-10 16:19
Mr. Koon, are you aware that private specialist doctors earn between RM 15000 - RM 50000 per month. While consultants could hit more than RM 100k per month? After reading your article, I find that you do not understand the medical industry. The medical profession is still the most promising in terms of earnings prospect where one is able to make as much as a managing director in a listed company provided that he or she is willing to put in the sacrifices in furthering the education minus the luck factor.
2016-01-10 16:30
No point earning 100K per month when you are 50 yrs old.
And sacrificed your life for 50 years just to get to this level..
2016-01-10 16:32
450K invested for 20 years with a CAGR of 15% is the same as earning 40K per months right from day 1.
With monthly earning of ~ 90K per month after 20 years.
(not comparing the NPV at the end of 20 years yet)
2016-01-10 16:41
Fortunebullz....after dissecting the women in and out still got feeling meh...(don't talk like the doctor from Kelantan/ISIS lah!)
Doctors no time to develop their body assets like others!
May be they can only luk sexy with their bald head...
2016-01-10 16:47
Hello guys: while it is true that some (a small minority of doctors )specialists in private practice make a lot of money, most doctors don't make that much. A government doctor who is not a specialist only makes at most 10K a month after close to 10 years service. And do you know how difficult is it for an ordinary doctor to become a specialist? It takes about 8-10 years from graduating from medical schools for an ordinary doctor to become a qualified, gazetted specialist. And the fact is: this country has an oversupply of ordinary doctors now! Does everyone realize that?
2016-01-10 16:52
we are not talking about those whose families got $500k to throw, but on supposedly poor families....you real Flintstone.
<Mr. Koon, are you aware that private specialist doctors earn between RM 15000 - RM 50000 per month>
2016-01-10 17:07
end of discussions....just released data, 500 medical clinics closed shop 2015 alone due to poor revenue.
2016-01-10 17:09
Support you Mr Koon. One must get priority right. Dun be like some poor nation who spent big money to go to space.
2016-01-10 17:13
Highest salaried job is not a doctor or an engineer.
Just compare with IB you will know where do you stand.
### This is what a day in the life of a JP Morgan intern is like
She’s one of hundreds of interns working at the investment bank during the university holidays, who are essentially following the same programme, whether they’re in London, Hong Kong or New York.
If previous years are anything to go by, a majority of the summer intake will be offered positions at JP Morgan for when they finish studying — becoming high-flying and highly-paid investment bankers.
JP Morgan won’t disclose how much the interns are paid, but they’re effectively being trialled for first year analyst jobs reportedly paying around $85,000 (£54,200) before bonuses.
Read more at http://www.businessinsider.my/day-in-the-life-of-a-jp-morgan-intern-2015-8/#HfOduZAwgSPMaGdi.99
Read more at http://www.businessinsider.my/day-in-the-life-of-a-jp-morgan-intern-2015-8/#HfOduZAwgSPMaGdi.99 ###
2016-01-10 17:47
Even those associates in big three business consulting firms earn very much more than a doctor.
Big three has admitted a new member.
For MBB(+A), the 'A' has grown in size. Very soon will become MBBA in the true sense.
Accenture to Acquire Schlumberger Business Consulting (SBC), the Management Consulting Arm of Schlumberger, to Expand Accenture Strategy Capabilities in Upstream Oil and Gas
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150817005296/en/Accenture-Acquire-Schlumberger-Business-Consulting-SBC-Management#.VdQkf_mqqkp
2016-01-10 17:48
Student who planned to study medicine degree should know brilliant result is a must, seem to be an unrealistic application. not sure our youngster think big or dream big :)
2016-01-10 23:10
on charity and CSR, do we try to produce the $1,000,000 /year future heart surgeon, or try to give those from poor families a leg up. ?
I think the future $ 1,000,000 heart surgeon already come from doctor families.
2016-01-11 00:11
doctor is all hype.
all girls want to marry a doctor. last time all girls want to marry teachers.
2016-01-11 09:55
in the 1960s 1970s, you are one lucky girl if u marry a teacher. then many got disaapointed later, when they found out the teacher life is not financially rewarding.
nowadays, you are lucky if u marry a doctor. years later, many will be disappointer when they find out the doctor life is not financially rewarding.
2016-01-11 09:57
cannot agree more... doctors are overrated in terms of financial rewards... Anyways the standards of doctors have declined over the years simply because the supply has increased against past years. It's no longer only for the elites as opportunities to be a doctor has increased (eg people who couldnt manage to enter public uni due to lower grades would go to India, Indonesia, Russia to do a medicine degree)
2016-01-11 13:18
Very helpful information & advice shared by Mr Koon. The current trend is worrying...
2016-01-11 16:57
Raider say....the goal of working for other people & earn a fixed salaries is not the goal for people who want to get rich loh...!!
U need to do a rewarding business & write your own pay check....is how most people get very rich mah.....!!
Earning a salary is just a stepping stone loh....when u gather experience mah.....!!
2016-01-11 17:00
intelligent and brainy students with super results shud go for medical.
those half-past six and average students shud go for art courses
2016-01-11 19:39
problem is every straight A student thinks he is mandated by heaven to study medicine., but unrealistic.
<
tpchit intelligent and brainy students with super results shud go for medical.
those half-past six and average students shud go for art courses>
2016-01-11 23:02
every year we read about straight A students who cry and appeal for help because the government don't give him a place to study medicine.
....if only they cast their net wider, they will find dozens of private U who will fully sponsor top top students for non medical courses.
2016-01-11 23:55
If yr children want to study medicine, do u beg, borrow or steal to finance them or tell them no & do some other courses.
Is it their life or yours?
2016-01-13 19:09
I guess when uncle koon fall sick he wont be seeing the doctor bcos he wont sponsor any student to do medicine. He may want to see his accountant/share broker to generate more income or engineers n architect to build more houses to generate more money. But is making money the most important thing in life. I guess after living for 82 yrs he has not found the answer yet. Very sad.
2016-01-14 18:41
aiyo....people talking about cost and return ma...
If so noble...why not the government support by reducing the Medical fees?
If cost of getting a Medical degree is 2 Million...u still want to talk like that meh....aiyoooo...
2016-01-14 18:53
One may need to realize the reason for the high cost of Medical fees...is because of the 'status' value given to this profession...
Its just like...people choosing to obtain a BMW when...all that I required is a simple car that does the same job like Wira...
So..the fault is actually in the system and also in the people's 'mentality'....
So perhaps its not wrong to question why a poor guy wants to do medicine...just like why a poor guy should seek help to obtain a BMW?
Charity is for the 'basic necessity' ...not for the 'luxury'.
2016-01-14 19:44
The issue here I think is not about sponsorship. The point is whether our children want to study medicine & whether we can afford it. Life is not all about cost & benefits. We came with nothing & will go with nothing but if we can do something for the betterment of society in general then we will leave our mark
2016-01-14 19:45
Perhaps uncle might be thinking something like this....... If that amount of money to sponsor 1 child, I can use the same amount to sponsor 10. Nothing wrong with that.
2016-01-14 19:54
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Salute to all sifus.. Suggest KYY to list down cost for study char kueh teow in malaysia..
2016-01-10 14:54