If you need fongsiling or above sma200 to buy.

You are suhei, Id rather you dont touch this and increase my cost. Fong Siling sailang is MBSB, he only got small ciku investment here. Please go there and buy.

Down there you ask whether can buy or not, people sure answer you, will even give you sma200, overbought or cup and handle or whatever bs analysis.

Very supportive one. Dont have asshole like me fire your ass.

Because this is incredibly weak and illogical thinking.

I would suggest you put money in FD.

Every time the price go up, i not only have my cost increase, but i also have to read an increased amount of idiotic comments.

Asking where is the price, what is the TP, where is my backside located. Is it above SMA below SMA?

Which idiot sifu buying or selling, what operator doing , what shark doing, who is ikan bilis, what is ikan bilis doing.

Who's grandmother got hemorrhoids?

Then the best one, at this price i can buy ah?

I am almost hoping next quarter make loss. Due to MFRS9 ECL adjustment or something. That will give me some peace and quiet.

Or better yet 6 GLC's in china go bankrupt and pull down the financial system, waseh by then, whole market diam diam, price all cheap cheap. Let me just buy and no need read these stupid comments. By the the only people still buying or commenting is those with brains.

===========================================================================
Eric6790 jon,what u say was logic, if u buy current price I feel a bit high as u say wait drop back then enter
01/08/2018 12:35

You being here disturbs me wor. How leh.


===========================================================================
Learner King Jon choivo u are very irritating. Please don't disturb other forum users!
01/08/2018 15:09

Go buy MBSB pls. Talk there.

===========================================================================
Eric6790 jon,what u say was logic, if u buy current price I feel a bit high as u say wait drop back then enter
01/08/2018 12:35

Haha im in here way before you lah.

Stop stalking leh, go buy something else.

Try myeg, sma above my backside that one.

Haha bit of a masochist are you :)

Outside, people call this guy wheywhey sifu, make his dick feel big.

Here, people think he suhei, until say it to his face.

Make me feel bad only.

LaoTzeAhSir Whey whey has nothing substantial and constructive to offer... a.k.a. tin kosong
07/06/2018 22:28

Nothing to say to these suhei.

Luckily, bear market, and got alot of esos people selling. Help to keep the price down.

With some luck, might drop back in a week or two and i can buy more before the div.

Think he's talking bout me. Hahahahhaha

I fire that fella like hell in rcecap forum over his ta post till he nothing to say, so now he will follow me and try comment here and there.

Cute fella lah. I concede got better way to argue and still leave him some face, but i lazy lah.

Whey whey,

You sure you dont want wait SMA above my backside only buy ah?

Wheywhey,

The moment i buy a stock. I make money d.

RCECAP is now overbought leh, go sell lah? Or you want to wait till SMA below my backside?

Haha I'm not sure about any of your picks, but I'm glad cck worked so well.

I could not see cck properly and when I could, it was too expensive.

The rest are interesting, some I've considered before but I never found them attractive enough. Would like to hear your thought process behind each pick.

I'm fairly certain if you bought at 0.05, you would still be quite happy now, if you didn't average up.

Its just an example to illustrate a point.

Probability said something so foolish, he had to go delete it hahahah

Eh pump and dumper.

Don't bs can ah.

How to lose money if you buy first, then ask all your follower to buy.

The fact you even have loss is proof of your stupidity.

Sorry, that is 23x. From 0.03 to 0.665

Even if you wait 15 year, that is 23% cagr.

The only real advantage one has in investing is patience. Study more, and be very very very patient.

You must be very sure that the moment you bought, you made money. Otherwise. Very hard to stay calm and logical.

It will take longer than you think it would take to happen. And when it happens, it will be faster than you ever thought it could.

You see huaan.

To from 0.03 to like 0.665.

That is 15x.

Even if it took 10 years, that is 20% plus cagr.

Outliar,

That's why for companies like this. Rubbish compankes with insane value. You must diversify widely.

I wont hold more than 2% in these companies. Find like 10 or 15, make it about 20% or 25% of fund in total.

But depends on your investment preference. I personally cannot help but buy a little of something that is insanely cheap.

Maybe it's better if I was fully focused on my favourite companies. But we'll see lah. It suits me.

Haha my loss still larger in real life compared to my portfolio here.

And funny thing is, my real portfolio is more diversified. Hahaha.

Don't have aeoncr in my real portfolio unfortunately.

All this fongsiling parasites, can you guys go to mbsb or something ah. He sailang there.

Outliar, long way to go.

If price don't change, give me 2 years.

Wheywhey,

I would like you to make money, but I'd rather it not be here. You want to tell now is sma breakout or whatever anot?

if BJCORP hit RM3 lets say, 10 years from now. Calvin start singing about BJCORP 2 years plus ago, Lets say average cost is RM0.5

That is 16.1% CAGR for 10 years.

======================================================================

Posted by klkk > Jul 30, 2018 09:20 PM | Report Abuse

I remember there was a time Calvin was very active in Bjcorp singing praises everyday and his dream for Bjcorp was sky high, at that time Bjcorp price was around RM0. 50 - RM0. 65 with his calculation he valued Bjcorp at RM10.00 and was so sure that it was happening. But Bjcorp is struggling at RM0. 30 after so many years..

Alas... now Calvin is active in Insas doing what he was doing in Bjcorp. Hope it's not a bad sign.

Mr Ooi,

I would suggest you don't layan these people so much. People who are worth something know who you are and your record.

I cannot follow you in lionind as its not good enough for me, but i hope you make alot of money.

Lol fabien relax haha.

I bought more rcecap instead of trop. But i think next round i should buy more trop.

Just keep buying, just keep buying. Every time buy, straight make money. Easy way to double your salary.

Bought more, 32% of fund. I scared d.

Raider,

I can give you an argument, but I can't give you an understanding.

But technical is noise. Your article is the noise.

Raider, when recession happen, as long as you can meet your monthly payments, you can keep your house and car. The bank wont sohai suddenly ask you pay for the entire loan one go or they sell your house or car.

Very different from margin.

If bank offer me personal loan at 5% effective interest rate, with only a monthly repayment, i wont mind taking it.

Lai lai raider start to shout d. Hahaha

What personal attack? What have i said about your that is untrue or you did not do?

Own up to your own failures and bullshit.

Warren Buffet did not do derivatives, or at least in the sense people think he does. When he bought over General RE, it had a derivative position and he had them liquidate it . However it took like 4 years to fully liquidate.

His operating units sometimes used derivatives for operational purposes. Very different from gambling with derivatives.

You are right margin and leverage is not evil, but it motivates people to use it in a very stupid way. Where even smart and good people die because of it.

Its like sugar. Little bit of the right kind, can d. Not good for health but won't kill you. If someone is like 25% margin, nothing wrong, equity got 100k, margin another 25k, can tahan. Wont get margin call.

Anything above 75% margin, and you must be a special kind of stupid, or a hedge fund manager playing with other people money.

That's not the summary of this discussion, not even close.

That's the summary of your thought process throughout, that did not change at all, publicly at least, in view of new information given. Not even a properly reasoned out counter perspective.

That's stockraider for you, I still remember very clearly how loud you shout for hengyuan and evergeen, everyone who come out with contrary opinion is automatically pondan.

Now, both also die. The only money you earn is from people who stupid enough to follow you.

Irrelevent to the discussion.

I also know how to say:

"Walk out without umbrella, you will get wet when rain." hahahahaha

Stick to the points.

I personally hope you wont kena limit down while on max margin. And if you kena, i hope it is very public, at least people can learn something.



======================================================================
Posted by stockraider > Jul 30, 2018 05:03 PM | Report Abuse

good stock u will still lose monies if u overpaid....do u brave enough to buy good stock like nestle, dutch lady, pbank, F&N , petdag today at current price leh ??

I dont think tiah intends to buy out TA. he just do for fun.

Or maybe cause he think inari is overvalued lol.

Raider

May 8: 2.58
May 9 election market close
May 14 (market reopen): 1.81

There is no 2.1 for you to see.

You say sell at RM14 so easy, i ask you, did you sell on the way up or down?

People are human. Bull markets is like sex. Its feels fantastic up until just before the climax.

If you think having someone being able to sell what you own at the time and price of their choosing is low risk.

I nothing to say.

Yes if you pick shitty stock, you will lose money whether cash or margin.

But margin lets you pick good stock and still lose it all. Very unique.



===================================================================================
taking ur example
Where got the day after election straight away Rm 1.00 leh ??

If u decisively want to sell, sell & sell ....u could comfortably got out at Rm 2.10 loh.....!!

Just that u just being greedy wants to got better price if rebound loh...!!

The samething...Hengyuan the all time high at Rm 19.50, u could easily got out at Rm 14.00 if u want to sell & not being greedy loh...!!

The point is still whether u use cash or margin ....u still lose monies if ur stock selection koyak loh...!!

If price ...crash systematically the natural thing is cut loss loh...!!

Pls remember my friend John lose his entire capital investment using cash on rsena-w loh....!!

Raider,

Your example data also wrong.

Lets say you had myeg at RM2.58. RM1m, RM2m Margin. You were long term investor in MYEG for more than 5 years, every time div come out, you reinvest, and your CAGR 230% (MYEG grow at 76.65% CAGR for the last 5 years up to May). You feel like genius, your family feel like you genius, your neighbour jealous of you.

And you were a cikopek making RM2k a month who only had RM16K to put into stock market 5 years ago, now your RM16k is RM1mil net to you. And you got more money than your boss.

Day 1 after election: Limit Down, RM1.81 Cannot sell. Lose 90% of portfolio d.

Day 2 after election: Limit Down again, RM RM1.27. Now you owe the bank RM1m d. All your capital done.

Day 3 after election: No limit down, lets say you very decisive like raider, sell on open. Average price RM1. Now, you are 60% down, or 180% down. You now owe the bank RM1.8m.

You think market so nice always let you sell?

Imagine, you top investor, like OTB can get 30% CAGR, and you get that for 10 years double OTB, so smart like genius!

You learn to sailang and all in, because you really understand the business, top top business only you buy.

This limit down scenario only need to happen once in your long life, and you will lose 90%.

If you kena myeg scenario, you will now owe 180% of your capital to the bank.

CAGR from 30% for 10 years.

To Negative 10.8 for 10 years.

All that track record gone in 1 day.

And now, you not only cannot buy at bottom. You have to pay back bank. By the time market boom again say 5 year from now, 20% also haven't pay back.

You will pay until you die.

Imagine if that was raider, from having millions in portfolio and property asset.

To losing it all (40 year of working, salary and investment ) in one day, have to sell off all the property, and even then not sure enough to pay back bank anot.



===================================================================================
OPTION 1
IF RAIDER INVEST INTO MYEG AT RM 4.00, TODAY MYEG IS RM 1.20, RAIDER WOULD HAVE LOSS RM 2.80 OR 70% OF MY VALUE AND MY PORTFOLIO WILL WORTH ONLY RM 30K TODAY MAH.....!!

OPTION 2
IF RAIDER INVEST INTO MYEG AT RM 4.00, USE CASH RM 100K AND USE MARGIN RM 200K....RAIDER WILL ALREADY GET A MARGIN CALL WHEN MYEG SHARE PRICE AT RM 3.50 LOH....!!
REMEMBER THE RISK MANAGEMENT IS TO SELL...SELLL AND SELL MAH...!!
SO RAIDER MANAGE TO LARI KUAT KUAT AT LOWER AVERAGE PRICE OF RM 3.30.
SO EFFECTIVELY RAIDER LOSE RM 52.5K AND STILL HAVE REMAINING CASH OF RM 47.5K MAH.

CONCLUSION
SO IF U LOOK CAREFULLY THE ABOVE EXAMPLE SOMETIME MARGIN INVESTOR MAY EVEN HAVE LOWER RISK THAN CASH INVESTOR ALTHOUGH BCOS THEY ARE MORE DISCIPLINE & FORCE BY THE BANK IN CUTTING LOSSES MAH....!!

SO HOW CAN U SAY MARGIN IS THE CAUSE OF BIG INVESTMENT FAILURE COMPARE WITH CASH INVESTOR LEH ??

THE MAJOR FAILURE IS DUE TO WRONG STOCK SELECTION LOH...!!
30/07/2018 14:31
30/07/2018 15:06

Even my best pick rcecap. Got drop 30% for me to see at one point this year. Now its 6% gain.

If i on margin for this one, by now die d. Instead, i could average down.

Do you assume the person bought at margin at the bottom? Thats a little rich.

Lets say he sailang in at RM3.9 on 11 june 2018. Reasonable time, you might think uptrend continued.

Drop to RM3.1 on June 21. Lets say your margin call at RM3.4. You get average price of RM3.3

easily lose about 45% of total capital.

You heart got so calm, at that point still go buy in ah?

Now RM 4.

Could've made a small profit instead.

The fact that someone can make you sell at a time you don't want to sell, is very high risk.

If you buy say public bank on 20 June 1997, and you expect to sell on 1 July 1997 for a profit, its very very high risk, cause it 50/50.

But if you said, i will only sell 30 years from now or when the price is leng, very low risk.

If this does not make sense to you, i dont know what to say.

Having said that, if my portfolio drop more than 50% in a recession, i intend to go on margin.

but i wont have more than 70% leverage, and i will make it so that i can get 8% leverage each month, maximum.

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Posted by paperplane > Jul 30, 2018 12:56 PM | Report Abuse

if you use margin to buy TM, you think high risk or low risk

Raider, for the record.

I also have leverage of about 38% on my portfolio. But this is loans at 4.5% with a potential kicker, only payable upon maturity. They have tenure of 3 plus years.

Nobody can force me to sell. If tmr triple limit down my portfolio, im still ok. I can hold. No banker to go press sell button for me.

Thats the difference between my kind and margin.

Raider, there is no doubt that some leverage will really shoot up returns.

If one is a really good investor. But this is precisely how really good investors still die in market. The only way for rich and smart people to go bankrupt in the market is through leverage.

No matter how smart you are and how great your stock. The price can go crazy suddenly.

And your banker will force you to sell at the worst time.

If you are a good investor, why want to risk bankruptcy, you will be rich anyway given time.

Imagine this,

Investor Raider: Got RM100k. and Margin Up to RM200k. Lets say, raider is super investor, even in 1997 he know public bank is god like company. He buy RM300k Public Bank Shares. He pay RM4 per share. So got 75k Shares

Crisis happens. RM3.5. Lets assume no limit down (quite unlikely in real crisis). Raider run kuat kuat. Average price RM3.3. Effectively lose RM52.5k got RM47.5k.

After losing more than 50% of networth, raider scared d, dont dare touch for awhile. Drop to RM2.7. Got some support, raider feel safe. He sailing in again. This time his capital is RM47.5k and he add RM15K. Total RM62.5K. He buy RM187.5k in shares.

Suddenly news come out, mahathir go kowtow to singapore and japan, but they dont want to give him money.

Limit down. Raider straight lose 90% d. Want to run also cannot run. Capital now RM4.75K from RM100k.

Now he feel like jumping d, wife dont want to even see his face. He feel like failure in life, decided to never buy stock again even thought he was a good investor.


Investor Jon:

Got 100k, buy 100k. RM4 per share. 25k shares.

Drop to RM3.5 per share. He abit sacred, study more, every day see teh hong piow face, decide to buy RM4.9k more. That is 1.4k shares.

Drop again for him to see to RM3. Simi, i also scared, study even more, annual report also tearing d. But dont dare to buy.

Drop to RM2, similc, decide its cheap should buy abit more. Buy Rm10k. 5k shares.

Next day drop to RM1, now i want to cry d. Dont know why so cheap, both excited and damn scared. Dont dare buy.

Rebound to RM1.2, i think maybe economy recover, sailang take out all the cash, buy 20k shares.

Drop back down Rm1, walau eh....... But i study the report more, i feel it is way way way too cheap to begin with, but i no more money... Aih, heart also pain, throw in account don't want to look. Abit trauma, don't even want to think about the account or look at shares

Now, i got 51.4k shares at average cost of RM2.7. Manatau, i really go forget about the account, focus on work and business. Suddenly 2018, i see friend buy stock, decide to ask remisier how my shares is.

RM24 per share. Wahhhh. This also explains whey twice a year suddenly got pocket money come in.

Raider,

I think if someone need bank put gun to their head to be smart about investing, they shouldn't be investing.

If you buy at good company at a cheap price, dumb dumb hold is the best.

When Warren Buffet buy Amex and washington post, the company go and drop another 50% for him to see. Back then, he also small potato, less than 50 mil networth.

If he buy margin, he would have to sell both of them at some point. Instead, because he buy cash, he can buy all the way down.

What balance the bank give you? You need the bank to tell you when to sell only you know? You don't know the value of what you buy?

If you buy rubbish, dont want to admit to yourself you buy rubbish, then yes, dumb dumb will die.

but if you buy rubbish, triple limit down is possible. Even good company also can limit down 2 time.

How you plan to sell and get back capital afterwards?

raider, you are not a fool. You have lived through 1997 and 2008. And you telling me on average those on margin and gone through these 2 came up on top compared to those who held cash?

No way.

======================================================================
Already proven mah....!!
If u bought at too high price...u will be force out....due to force selling loh.....!!

But ur position...may not be worse compare with dumb dumb hold cash investor loh....!!

If the bank is putting some sense of balance on your investment....u call that putting a gun on ur head meh ??

That is like saying, put a knife in font of the steering wheel, so that you will be more alert when driving.

Imagine he bough PBBANK before recession, in recession from RM10 drop to RM3, he got no margin call since he is cash investor, every time drop RM2, he buy more. His position go from 20k shares to 50k shares, as he buy every month during the year.

Now, RM24, dividend also dont know how much d.

The person on margin, sold at RM7-5 because get margin call, everyone also get margin call, so he had to sell some for lower than expected. His capital, lost almost 80% by then. He had 40k shares, after margin call, only left 4k shares. This guy maybe a bit smart, when lost almost everything, no trauma at all (not probable) keep buying for the year, after recession only got 34k.

Not so bad, because he bought PBBANK. Super incredible company

Imagine if its rubbish company, long time ago jump from klcc d.


===================================================================================
JUST IMAGINE IF JOHN USE RM 50K CASH AND RM 50K MARGIN AND BOUGHT 1,000,000 RSENA-W INSTEAD....AT RM 0.075 HE WOULD HAVE GOT A MARGIN CALL AND WHEN HE SELL EVERYTHING SAY AVERAGE RM 0.07.......HE STILL HAVE REMAINING CASH RM 20K, IN OTHER WORDS AT LEAST HE IS SAVE BY THE MARGIN MAH....INSTEAD OF HAVING ZERO IF USE CASH TO INVEST LOH.

I too recommend newbies to use margin when young, so that they can learn why we shouldn't use margin whole they are still young and mummy daddy might still be able to bail them out.

If they too lucky and too skillful, and make too much money.

Well too bad. I hope they will last long enough. Hopefully, they will be able to learn from the mistakes of others, or somehow be lucky enough to time their way our of all the future recessions of sudden downward volatility.

The main reason why smart and rich people go bankrupt is due to margin or leverage. LTCM have star traders, Nobel prize winners and the highest iq of any top management. And they went bankrupt and almost bring down the banking system with them.

Even Rick guerrin, Warren buffet partner and friend. Had to sell Warren buffet Berkshire stock at usd70 to clear off his margin debts.

The stock now usd300,000 per share. If he had never heard of the word margin or leverage. He will not just be rich, but insanely rich.

Raider,
You recommend sailing on hengyuan at Rm15 and above.

Your shortcoming is pretty obvious also. You just never admit to any of them.

Raider,

Kingv did not say that he bought those rubbish counter, he just give example.

During 2008, the most secure company in the world, Berkshire hathaway, also drop 50%. If you had 1x margin, your capital lose all d.

In sunny days, your banker will hand you an umbrella, when the rain start, they will take the umbrella away.

In times of panic, you think your banker so nice let you keep the stock? He also got boss to answer to.

If you bought public bank using margin before 1997, you would go bankrupt. Imagine that, going bankrupt holding public bank.

You were in my opinion, immensely lucky. I rmbr what you said that your cost was 10 when the price drop to 6. The only reason you did not just lose millions in profit, but also millions in capital.

Is because kyy, go shout to the world he also buying. Causing the price to shoot up to 9 plus, and giving you the chance to unload.

I think that is luck, not skill. You may be skilful, but I don't see much proof for it.

You are old man, don't risk what you need for what you want.

Every young person feels invincible and smarter than they really are. When we know nothing, that's when we are most confident and thi k we know everything.

They do not need any more motivation to go and use margin.

I am certain, that cash investors have better records that margin investors on average.

Because they can actually buy all the way down, instead of selling all the way down.

Timing is damn important.

But can you predict it consistently. Most can't, and most who do are just lucky.

Maybe you really is got the skill. I try to rely less on that.

If it broke 2 in another 2 years, she will have 20% CAGR for 4 years.


Posted by paperplane > Jul 29, 2018 03:30 AM | Report Abuse

Leno, two years alredi. Still cannot break above 2 ah??hahahahahaha

This is a bit of a waste of time piece.

Stockraider,

Didn't you have to sell off a bungalow in penang to pay off your hengyuan margin?

Now, i agree with qqq3, that sailang is the way to go.

By sailang, i mean to put very significant parts of your net worth to what you consider to be the best opportunity and to use that opportunity as the basis on which you judge all future opportunities.

Given the portfolio of most people is very small. One could very well only own one stock.

Philip Fisher, Warren buffet and Charlie munger, are all billionaire, and they have their entire net worth (99% to 80%) in literally 1 stock. Fisher have his in 4 stocks.

But to put yourself in a position where the bank can force you to sell at the worst time possible and make your losses permanent, is one of the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

I personally don't dare to put all into one stock as i suppose i don't truly understand the business.

And the only time i considered margin was when i was a newbie, after really understanding the utter insanity of people in groups, i will never touch it.

Its inevitable that i will be rich anyway, why risk what i need for what i want.