Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 11:04 | Report Abuse

Hi Chivo,

U have side tracked on this issue, but to enlighthen u, i have cut loss on all my position on hengyuan, especially during euphoria that the PH has won the election......yes my overall position....i could have make a couple of millions.....but overall i only make a few thousand bucks in the end loh....!!

Although i have no margin call, but my awareness of the risk of margin trigger me to sell aggressively as hengyuan was laden with too many players that got stucked loh....!!

Looking back i could have make a couple of millions, if i had aggressively sold hengyuan between rm 16.00 to rm 19.00 and stay out, i did sold some but not so aggressive and bought back at a lower price & got stucked loh...!!
I should have just sold and walk out with a very fat profit loh..!!....but the earnings of hengyuan was very compelling....that i think at that time that it can give a valuation of rm 32.00 for hengyuan, that cause me to bought back lower that got me stucked loh....!!

Reflecting on the issue, I could have make more like KYY, if i got a margin call like kyy at rm 16.00 but the problem is that i did not use any margin at that time mah....!!
But a very important fact, bcos my awareness of margin as a potential & a big discipline have cushioned my potential losses by selling, i could make big losses if am stubborn loh...!!

Thus i always, recommend to young newbies, always learn to use margin early, it is okay to lose a couple of thousands on margin tools....learn the robes, when u can still afford to lose....once u develop ur skill it will come very handy...even without margin u know how to risk manage mah..!!
This is a small change tuition fees to be paid for margin loh...!!

Btw for newbies, margin cost only 5% pa....if in long run ...u still cannot make 5% pa....u better hang ur investment boots and work hard in other avenue as stock mkt is not for u loh...!!

Do not accept the fact that people alway says...u r...no good bcos u use margin loh..!!
The real problem is that U really no good in investment, thats why u lose very big loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 11:15 | Report Abuse

Always remember the 1st rule of margin investors loh...!!

1. If u got a margin call...u sell...sell...and sell until....u clear ur debts loh....!!
U don go and mark around....bcos margin call....is your savior alarm bell loh...!!

So if KYY an old fox...if he got a margin call..u think what he will do?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 11:33 | Report Abuse

RAIDER JUST TO ADD IF JAKS CRASH BACK TO RM 0.40 IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE, JUST LOOK AT HOW MYEG, GKENT AND HENGYUAN COLLAPSE....IF THIS SUPERIMPOSE ON JAKS, U CAN PERFECTLY SEE IT BELOW RM 0.40 LOH...!!

PEOPLE SAY THE 1ST CUT LOSS IS ALWAYS THE SMALLEST LOH...!!
DO IT B4 TOO LATE LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 11:44 | Report Abuse

THE PRACTICAL ANSWER IS NOT GOOD OR BAD FOR JAKS....IT IS PRACTICALLY NO CHOICE FOR JAKS....BCOS THEY ARE STUCKED WITH THE HIGH CAPEX AND THE STAR CALL ON THE BANK GUARANTEE WORSEN THE POSITION LOH...!!

PUT IT THIS WAY LOH...IF KYY START SELLING BCOS OF A MARGIN CALL DO U WANT TO FOOL AROUND BUYING JAKS MEH ??

IF U HAD POSITION BETTER SELL B4 TOO LATE, WHEN KYY SELINGS INTENSIFY LOH..!!

DON FORGET U STILL HAVE A RIGHT ISSUE TO DEAL WITH LATER AND THIS NEED MORE & MORE COMMITMENT OF RESOURCES MAH...!!

Posted by 3iii > Jul 28, 2018 10:55 AM | Report Abuse

Some rights issues are good, others can be very bad

Like most things in investment, rights issues are not simple matters.

Rights are not automatically "good things" from the shareholders' point of view. Some of the rights are good, others can be very bad.

Investors have to be careful and they should not rush in every time there is an annoucement of rights. They should classify the rights issue they are considering in accordance with the three categories indicated below:

(1) The case of the improperly managed companies
(2) The case of moving into new business area
(3) The case of the very fast growing company

They should purchase only those of the last category.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 12:07 | Report Abuse

No talk rebound loh....!!
It is sell...sell...sell loh....!!
No mark around for Jaks mah.....!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 29, 2018 11:15 AM | Report Abuse X

Always remember the 1st rule of margin investors loh...!!

1. If u got a margin call...u sell...sell...and sell until....u clear ur debts loh....!!
U don go and mark around....bcos margin call....is your savior alarm bell loh...!!

So if KYY an old fox...if he got a margin call..u think what he will do?

Posted by 一买就大涨 > Jul 29, 2018 12:04 PM | Report Abuse

at the beginning of real big drop u wont know... some of the minor drop would rebound.. when u are certain, u wont be able to sell.. moreover, if u pick the wrong shares that goes down not up, your losses will be double.. in uncertainty like now, it's not advisable to margin.. which is a 2 edge sword, it cuts both way.. don't mislead newbies...

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 12:15 | Report Abuse

Remember if u decide to sell bcos u r margin holder.....the same principle u decide to sell also must apply if u r a cash investor mah......!!

Don get confuse loh....!!
If u lose monies as margin investors....usually u will lose monies even u r a cash investors loh....!!

In the case that u r cash investor u can be a little bit more stubborn and end up losing more monies for holding much longer...in the case of margin investor u need to be decisive...sell...sell..n sell....!!

Margin investor must learn to retreat & fight another day loh....!!

Posted by 一买就大涨 > Jul 29, 2018 12:04 PM | Report Abuse

at the beginning of real big drop u wont know... some of the minor drop would rebound.. when u are certain, u wont be able to sell.. moreover, if u pick the wrong shares that goes down not up, your losses will be double.. in uncertainty like now, it's not advisable to margin.. which is a 2 edge sword, it cuts both way.. don't mislead newbies...

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 13:25 | Report Abuse

Learn from this important info from sifu calvin tan :

Posted by calvintaneng > Jul 28, 2018 11:04 PM | Report Abuse

There is a saying about keeping to its own knitting

Jaks expertise is in Water. It might not be a spectacular business. At least it was safe.
But Jaks left to do Construction (See how now got entangled in Star Media lawsuit)

And then into the unknown Power Plant job in Vietnam?
So now run into trouble? Trouble of its own making

There is another Water Player over here in Singapore called Hyflux.
Singapore is water scarce. So Hyflux has a very bright future turning sea water into drinking water for Singapore
Then Hyflux left its own knitting & ventured into Power Plant in Singapore
Now Tuaspring is insolvent.... bringing down Hyflux?

Hyflux failed with its Power Plant project on its own turf in Singapore
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/hyflux-singapore-court-s...

Now what happened to Hyflux in Singapore mirrors the trouble with Jaks
Jaks Office is in Subang Jaya. Only 10 minutes by Car is the PJ Star Building in Limbo
If Jaks could not complete the Job at home do you guys think it can do a good job in Vietnam Power Plant so far away.

How much time already wasted in Court Litigatio. Then Federal Court. And still cannot then fly to UK for Queen's Counsel at the Highest London Court (Since Malaysia was once under British jurisdiction). How much distraction & time wasted. And with costs of legal fees piling up?

Just think & be careful.

RAIDER ADD; VERY TRUE LOH....!!
WHO IS HYFLUX V JAKS LEH ??

HYFLUX IS VERY REPUTABLE CO IN THE WATER INDUSTRY 10 YRS AGO...ITS NAME IS EVEN WELL KNOWN INTERNATIONALLY LOH...!!
JAKS IS ONLY ONE OF THE MANUFACTURER OF STEEL PIPE FOR WATER INDUSTRY LOH...!!

IF VERY REPUTABLE HYFLUX CAN FAIL IN THE HOMEGROUND SPORE POWER PROJECT , DO U THINK JAKS CAN DO EXCEPTIONALLY IN VIETNAM POWER PROJECT MEH ??

REMEMBER WATER N POWER DOES NOT MIX BASED ON FENG SHUI STUDY LOH ??
THATS THE REASON U SEE TENAGA DID SO WELL WHEREAS BOTH YTL POWER AND MALAKOFF DID BADLY BCOS BOTH YTL AND MALAKOFF INVOLVE IN WATER PROJECT TOO.....WHEREAS TENAGA NEVER TOUCH WATER PROJECT LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 13:34 | Report Abuse

FAKE STOCK RAIDER;

DON CON PEOPLE TO ESCAPE FROM THE DEVIL AND JUMP INTO THE FIRE LOH...!!

AAX GOT ALOT OF BORROWING LOH....!!
OIL PRICE UP MARGIN AFFECTED LOH...!!

Posted by Stock Raiders > Jul 29, 2018 01:31 PM | Report Abuse

Forget Jaks! They still need to pay 50 million suit! Buy Aax instead!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 13:43 | Report Abuse

REMEMBER THIS IMPORTANT STATEMENT BY THE OLD FOX CONMAN KOON YEW YIN:

"The above price chart shows the price has been dropping from Rm 1.83 in mid Feburary to current level, a drop of about 30% within 6 months. As a result, all shareholders are losing money. Unfortunately, many shareholders are having margin call and forced to sell. All bankers must remember, forced selling is a vicious cycle. The forced selling will depress the price lower and resulting more forced selling."

No talk rebound loh....!!
It is sell...sell...sell loh....!!
No mark around for Jaks mah.....!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 29, 2018 11:15 AM | Report Abuse X

Always remember the 1st rule of margin investors loh...!!

1. If u got a margin call...u sell...sell...and sell until....u clear ur debts loh....!!
U don go and mark around....bcos margin call....is your savior alarm bell loh...!!

So if KYY an old fox...if he got a margin call..u think what he will do?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 13:48 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Jul 27, 2018 12:03 PM | Report Abuse X

Remember this loh....!!

Star court case...jaks is going to lose loh....!!
The injunction to prevent the call on the guarantee is just to bite time...it is matter of time....the court will allow the call on guarantee bcos....if star is wrong...he still can get relieve when the court decide on the merits of jaks defence.

The Vietnam project...is internal profit recognition...no profit or value is really earn on this project as far now loh...!!
The logic is this loh...if u had a ipp project....that can construct at rm 4.0 billion and u mark it up to rm 5 billion.

U go to the bank to borrow rm 5 billion....does that mean u make rm 1 billion ??
The answer is no loh...!! It is just a shiok sendiri...u make from yourself rm 1 billion....that is the logic mah...!!
U only make when ipp start generating power loh...!!
Just look at ipp Ytl power, malakoff and mudajaya are there doing really well ??

Thats the reason why jaks need rights issue...bcos the bank is not willing to finance so much loh...!!

So just becareful...bcos kyy is raising monies to finance the rights issue on the pretext of bank force selling.
Main reason...he is worried...and unwilling to commit so much loh...!!

RAIDER ALREADY PREDICTED EARLIER JAKS GOING TO LOSE LOH....!!

Posted by cheoky > 2018-07-29 14:01 | Report Abuse

Raider thought on margin use is fair. Is not black or white on margin use. Should utilize carefully. That all.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-29 14:14 | Report Abuse

cheoky

all businessmen have a margin account. All CEOs have a margin account.

if no margin account experience, its fine, just don't be a business man or CEO.

be an educator ...or a plant engineer...still a fine life.

I think University of hard knocks better than university of book worms or university of maths teachers.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 14:22 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-07-29 14:28 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Jul 28, 2018 06:04 PM | Report Abuse
The example quoted by kc....did not take into account....when cutloss are automated triggered when the share fell drastically.
KC assume...margin investors hold dumb dumb forever loh...!!
The conclusion raider says, it is not wrong using margin....but make sure u r stock selection competent and have good risk management loh...!!


This sentence appears two thirds way in my article,

"The above examples are simplistic, as things like margin calls will come in and loss would be realized earlier, but it does show the peril or horror of using OPM."

Anywhere, we had argued about this many times before and I do not wish to quarrel with you again. After all this seems to be the only thing we have been disagreeing.

By the way, I will continue to write articles when seeing people encouraging the public to use margin, as a social contribution. You may continue to encourage the use of margin finance. No problem for me.

Posted by OngLai88 > 2018-07-29 14:41 | Report Abuse

Margin financing can be good or bad to different individuals. It depends on how it is being used and managed.

I have known of people making lots of money using the facility and also have seen people lost their capital plus owing IB.

Hokkien lang kong 'tua ho tua phai'

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-29 15:06 | Report Abuse

stock raider

I do have a problem..... Market so bearish, I don't know how to trade.

to make money, one has to be positive , have an optimistic outlook....I try to be...but so difficult.....with Trump and his trade war......I also don't know when I can change my attitude.


I keep my brain cells working by poking at the dogmatic fellows....I think it is fun...and doing some CSR too.

challenge every assumption.....that is surprisingly enjoyable....and rewarding.

I am bearish...doesn't mean I am correct....maybe he who margins and sailang a certain stock on Monday makes a lot of money......that also can be.......

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 15:10 | Report Abuse

YA IF U R UNCERTAIN...THOU SHOULD NOT HERO WORSHIPPED CONMAN KYY SUGGESTION ON THE USE OF MARGIN TO SAILANG ON JAKS LOH....!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 29, 2018 03:06 PM | Report Abuse

stock raider

I do have a problem..... Market so bearish, I don't know how to trade.

to make money, one has to be positive , have an optimistic outlook....I try to be...but so difficult.....with Trump and his trade war......I also don't know when I can change my attitude.


I keep my brain cells working by poking at the dogmatic fellows....I think it is fun...and doing some CSR too.

challenge every assumption.....that is surprisingly enjoyable....and rewarding.

I am bearish...doesn't mean I am correct....maybe he who margins and sailang a certain stock on Monday makes a lot of money......that also can be.......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-29 15:15 | Report Abuse

raider.....I have learnt a lot from KYY....no denying that.....and he is also a very nice man and has been very nice to me......

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 15:18 | Report Abuse

YES NICE TO U...BUT PLS DON CARRY HIS BALLS...TO BE ACCOMPLICE TO CON PEOPLE LOH...!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 29, 2018 03:15 PM | Report Abuse

raider.....I have learnt a lot from KYY....no denying that.....and he is also a very nice man and has been very nice to me......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-29 15:26 | Report Abuse

yes....on the night 509, I wrote a note to KYY.....looks like you could be Tan Sri very soon.......

I knew he has rejected many offers for Datuk and even Datuk Seri....but Tan Sri is a different ball game.......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-29 15:29 | Report Abuse

stockraider > Jul 29, 2018 03:18 PM | Report Abuse

YES NICE TO U...BUT PLS DON CARRY HIS BALLS...TO BE ACCOMPLICE TO CON PEOPLE LOH...!!

==========

that is uncalled for.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-07-29 16:09 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 29, 2018 03:06 PM | Report Abuse
stock raider
I do have a problem..... Market so bearish, I don't know how to trade.
to make money, one has to be positive , have an optimistic outlook....I try to be...but so difficult.....with Trump and his trade war......I also don't know when I can change my attitude.

ME: I THOUGHT YOU HAVE BEN SAYING SO CONFIDENTLY YOU WOULD HAVE RM200M IN YOUR TRADING ACCOUNT IN 15 YEARS TIME? WITH THIS NEGATIVE VIEW, PESSIMISTIC OUTLOOK, HOW?

I keep my brain cells working by poking at the dogmatic fellows....I think it is fun...and doing some CSR too.

ME: PLEASE CARRY ON. I HAVE FUN EXPOSING YOUR LIES TOO WITH ALL YOUR TALKING COCK. YOU KNOW HOW YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AS AN IGNORANT, TALK NONSENSE, TALK EMPTY, TALK BIG WITH NOTHING, BIG PLP, MISERABLE INDIVIDUAL?

challenge every assumption.....that is surprisingly enjoyable....and rewarding.

ME: BUT WHATEVER YOU SAID, OR CHALLENGE HAS NO SUBSTANCE AT ALL, NOTHING ABSOLUTELY. AS A RESULT, YOU BECOME A LAUGHING STOCK WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING YOURSELF!

I am bearish...doesn't mean I am correct....maybe he who margins and sailang a certain stock on Monday makes a lot of money......that also can be.......

ME; SEE ANOTHER EMPTY, USELESS TALK.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-29 16:17 | Report Abuse

kc

already full with book theory....there is no empty container for your brain cells already.....

Posted by abang_misai > 2018-07-29 16:18 | Report Abuse

KC also talks cock lah

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-29 16:21 | Report Abuse

KC ADA SUBSTANCES LOH....!!

RAIDER CAN ATTEST MAH.....!!

HIS IDEA A CORE SUCCESSFUL INVESTMENT STRATEGY LOH...!!

Posted by abang_misai > Jul 29, 2018 04:18 PM | Report Abuse

KC also talks cock lah

Posted by hollandking > 2018-07-29 16:29 | Report Abuse

yeah, i learn a lot from many gamblers in the forum, really good ppl

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-07-29 17:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by Jon Choivo > Jul 29, 2018 01:43 AM | Report Abuse
But to put yourself in a position where the bank can force you to sell at the worst time possible and make your losses permanent, is one of the stupidest thing i've ever heard.
I personally don't dare to put all into one stock as i suppose i don't truly understand the business.
And the only time i considered margin was when i was a newbie, after really understanding the utter insanity of people in groups, i will never touch it.
Its inevitable that i will be rich anyway, why risk what i need for what i want.


Posted by qqq3 > Jul 29, 2018 02:14 PM | Report Abuse
cheoky
all businessmen have a margin account. All CEOs have a margin account.
if no margin account experience, its fine, just don't be a business man or CEO.
be an educator ...or a plant engineer...still a fine life.
I think University of hard knocks better than university of book worms or university of maths teachers.



Just look at the two comments above, the earlier one from a young man, and the later a 60+ retiree, you can see the vast difference in knowledge, intelligence, wisdom as well as experience.

But the big surprise is the young one is the one who excels. He said, "Its inevitable that i will be rich anyway, why risk what i need for what i want."

The old one, who just know one person he worships who has share margin account, simply shoots that "all businessmen" got share margin account. Where does he get that?

Posted by coldinvestor > 2018-07-29 20:01 | Report Abuse

好文章， 谢谢您 ！

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-07-29 21:35 | Report Abuse

Posted by jjj88 > Jul 28, 2018 05:40 PM | Report Abuse
nice nice sharing

Posted by crownford_bl > Jul 28, 2018 10:08 PM | Report Abuse
KcChong: I like your blogs. Well done!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 29, 2018 04:21 PM | Report Abuse
KC ADA SUBSTANCES LOH....!!
RAIDER CAN ATTEST MAH.....!!
HIS IDEA A CORE SUCCESSFUL INVESTMENT STRATEGY LOH...!!

Posted by coldinvestor > Jul 29, 2018 08:01 PM | Report Abuse
好文章， 谢谢您 ！




Thank you very much. Terima kasih, 谢谢您, நன்றி

Posted by paperplane > 2018-07-29 22:09 | Report Abuse

have side tracked on this issue, but to enlighthen u, i have cut loss on all my position on hengyuan, especially during euphoria that the PH has won the election......yes my overall position....i could have make a couple of millions.....but overall i only make a few thousand bucks in the end loh....!!

Although i have no margin call, but my awareness of the risk of margin trigger me to sell aggressively as hengyuan was laden with too many players that got stucked loh....!!

Looking back i could have make a couple of millions, if i had aggressively sold hengyuan between rm 16.00 to rm 19.00 and stay out, i did sold some but not so aggressive and bought back at a lower price & got stucked loh...!!
I should have just sold and walk out with a very fat profit loh..!!....but the earnings of hengyuan was very compelling....that i think at that time that it can give a valuation of rm 32.00 for hengyuan, that cause me to bought back lower that got me stucked loh....!!

Reflecting on the issue, I could have make more like KYY, if i got a margin call like kyy at rm 16.00 but the problem is that i did not use any margin at that time mah....!!
But a very important fact, bcos my awareness of margin as a potential & a big discipline have cushioned my potential losses by selling, i could make big losses if am stubborn loh...!!

Thus i always, recommend to young newbies, always learn to use margin early, it is okay to lose a couple of thousands on margin tools....learn the robes, when u can still afford to lose....once u develop ur skill it will come very handy...even without margin u know how to risk manage mah..!!
This is a small change tuition fees to be paid for margin loh...!!

Btw for newbies, margin cost only 5% pa....if in long run ...u still cannot make 5% pa....u better hang ur investment boots and work hard in other avenue as stock mkt is not for u loh...!!

Do not accept the fact that people alway says...u r...no good bcos u use margin loh..!!
The real problem is that U really no good in investment, thats why u lose very big loh...!!



Raider bro advise is always the best!! I am learning from raider bro..

Posted by lching > 2018-07-29 22:38 | Report Abuse

good sharing

Posted by KINGV > 2018-07-29 23:33 | Report Abuse

KCChong, I strongly support your advice against using margin account. There are arguments for and against using margin account and below is a short account of my personal experience in using margin account.
During the time when Iraq invaded Kuwait, markets were down. I approached a foreign bank for a margin account to buy shares . When U.S invaded Iraq,markets rebounded and returns were good. Then came the sheer madness in the early 1990s for KLSE when cheap counters like SHChan, Hwa Tai and AHP reached prices of over RM60, RM200, and RM8 respectively. Practically everybody was making money and celebrating. Those having margin made more. I was conservative in using my margin account in my borrowings and in selecting my counters. Even then returns were very good.
Then came the financial crisis of 1997/1998. The market crashed and it is hard to believe how low the market went. Some of the dubious counters went limit down 3 times in a row. Those with margin accounts have no time to run and by the time the broker firms forced sell, they have not only lost their principals but owed the firms/banks substantial sum of monies. Those who invested in blue chips were not spared.The composite index fell from around 1300 to the unbelievable number of around 240. If I am not mistaken Maybank fell below RM3 and Berjaya Toto below 50 sen. Those who invested in a diversified portfolio of blue chips were not spared since the composite index fell so sharply. Those who had margin accounts suffered more since there were a lot of forced selling at each lower level of the composite index unless one was so skillful in liquidating all his/her blue chips in the initial stage of the market fall. I was not spared but it is a good lesson that margin account can wipe you out.

Posted by 3iii > 2018-07-29 23:56 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-07-30 00:02 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-07-30 00:15 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-30 00:24 | Report Abuse

Dear kingv,

Your stock selection clearly reflect ur own shortcoming as a good investor, and not bcos u r use margin loh...!!

Ask yourself why u buy stock like Shchan, Hwa tai and Ahp at such a high price using margin leh ??

Why u did not buy into Pbank, carlsberg , nestle, dutch lady , maybank and even IJM using margin instead leh ??

Certainly, if u r more knowledgeable & skillful...u would not make such a stupid mistake loh....!!

So stop blaming margin loh....bcos u yourself is a very bad investor loh....!!

Posted by KINGV > Jul 29, 2018 11:33 PM | Report Abuse

KCChong, I strongly support your advice against using margin account. There are arguments for and against using margin account and below is a short account of my personal experience in using margin account.
During the time when Iraq invaded Kuwait, markets were down. I approached a foreign bank for a margin account to buy shares . When U.S invaded Iraq,markets rebounded and returns were good. Then came the sheer madness in the early 1990s for KLSE when cheap counters like SHChan, Hwa Tai and AHP reached prices of over RM60, RM200, and RM8 respectively. Practically everybody was making money and celebrating. Those having margin made more. I was conservative in using my margin account in my borrowings and in selecting my counters. Even then returns were very good.
Then came the financial crisis of 1997/1998. The market crashed and it is hard to believe how low the market went. Some of the dubious counters went limit down 3 times in a row. Those with margin accounts have no time to run and by the time the broker firms forced sell, they have not only lost their principals but owed the firms/banks substantial sum of monies. Those who invested in blue chips were not spared.The composite index fell from around 1300 to the unbelievable number of around 240. If I am not mistaken Maybank fell below RM3 and Berjaya Toto below 50 sen. Those who invested in a diversified portfolio of blue chips were not spared since the composite index fell so sharply. Those who had margin accounts suffered more since there were a lot of forced selling at each lower level of the composite index unless one was so skillful in liquidating all his/her blue chips in the initial stage of the market fall. I was not spared but it is a good lesson that margin account can wipe you out.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-07-30 00:28 | Report Abuse

iii

we want to make money reading my posts? sorry...that is not the way it works......

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-30 00:29 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-30 00:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-30 00:45 | Report Abuse

FOR THOSE WHO BLAME MARGIN BCOS THEY LOSE ALOT OF MONIES, PLS READ N UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANT STATEMENT BELOW LOH:

" Remember if u decide to sell bcos u r margin holder.....the same principle u decide to sell also must apply if u r a cash investor mah......!!

Don get confuse loh....!!
If u lose monies as margin investors....usually u will lose monies even u r a cash investors loh....!!

In the case that u r cash investor u can be a little bit more stubborn and end up losing more monies for holding much longer...in the case of margin investor u need to be decisive...sell...sell..n sell....!!

Margin investor must learn to retreat & fight another day loh....!!"

Posted by stockraider > 2018-07-30 00:46 | Report Abuse

Thus i always, recommend to young newbies, always learn to use margin early, it is okay to lose a couple of thousands on margin tools....learn the robes, when u can still afford to lose....once u develop ur skill it will come very handy...even without margin u know how to risk manage mah..!!
This is a small change tuition fees to be paid for margin loh...!!

Btw for newbies, margin cost only 5% pa....if in long run ...u still cannot make 5% pa....u better hang ur investment boots and work hard in other avenue as stock mkt is not for u loh...!!

Do not accept the fact that people alway says...u r...no good bcos u use margin loh..!!
The real problem is that U really no good in investment, thats why u lose very big loh...!!

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-07-30 01:56 | Report Abuse

Raider,

Kingv did not say that he bought those rubbish counter, he just give example.

During 2008, the most secure company in the world, Berkshire hathaway, also drop 50%. If you had 1x margin, your capital lose all d.

In sunny days, your banker will hand you an umbrella, when the rain start, they will take the umbrella away.

In times of panic, you think your banker so nice let you keep the stock? He also got boss to answer to.

If you bought public bank using margin before 1997, you would go bankrupt. Imagine that, going bankrupt holding public bank.

You were in my opinion, immensely lucky. I rmbr what you said that your cost was 10 when the price drop to 6. The only reason you did not just lose millions in profit, but also millions in capital.

Is because kyy, go shout to the world he also buying. Causing the price to shoot up to 9 plus, and giving you the chance to unload.

I think that is luck, not skill. You may be skilful, but I don't see much proof for it.

You are old man, don't risk what you need for what you want.

Every young person feels invincible and smarter than they really are. When we know nothing, that's when we are most confident and thi k we know everything.

They do not need any more motivation to go and use margin.

I am certain, that cash investors have better records that margin investors on average.

Because they can actually buy all the way down, instead of selling all the way down.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-07-30 01:58 | Report Abuse

Raider,
You recommend sailing on hengyuan at Rm15 and above.

Your shortcoming is pretty obvious also. You just never admit to any of them.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-07-30 02:02 | Report Abuse

I too recommend newbies to use margin when young, so that they can learn why we shouldn't use margin whole they are still young and mummy daddy might still be able to bail them out.

If they too lucky and too skillful, and make too much money.

Well too bad. I hope they will last long enough. Hopefully, they will be able to learn from the mistakes of others, or somehow be lucky enough to time their way our of all the future recessions of sudden downward volatility.

The main reason why smart and rich people go bankrupt is due to margin or leverage. LTCM have star traders, Nobel prize winners and the highest iq of any top management. And they went bankrupt and almost bring down the banking system with them.

Even Rick guerrin, Warren buffet partner and friend. Had to sell Warren buffet Berkshire stock at usd70 to clear off his margin debts.

The stock now usd300,000 per share. If he had never heard of the word margin or leverage. He will not just be rich, but insanely rich.

Posted by Yu_and_Mee > 2018-07-30 05:44 | Report Abuse

@stockraider,if jaks fall below 0.40, would you be buying some?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-07-30 08:51 | Report Abuse

>>>>
stockraider As USUAL TALK COCK...3iii always make sweeping statement loh...!!

If u r so good, pls explain meaningfully and refute raider why using margin is wrong for investor properly.
At least we have a meaning discussion , instead like talkcock like u loh....!!
<<<<



If you are as smart as I am, you do not need to use margin.

On the other hand, if you are not as smart, you have more reasons not to use margin.

Hope raider is working hard to repay his debts.

Posted by 3iii > 2018-07-30 08:52 | Report Abuse

>>>Jon Choivo Raider,
You recommend sailing on hengyuan at Rm15 and above.

Your shortcoming is pretty obvious also. You just never admit to any of them.
30/07/2018 01:58<<<



Raider lacks integrity.

Very dishonest.

Posted by chonghai > 2018-07-30 08:59 | Report Abuse

The main difference between investing with and without margin is that without margin, one has the option to sit through the bear cycle ignoring the share price, purely focusing on fundamentals.
With margin applied, one has to pay attention to price movement, to avoid margin call.

A more moderate approach would be using margin without going to the max.
Example : -
Only apply margin of 100K if the portfolio is 1 million.

Posted by KINGV > 2018-07-30 09:05 | Report Abuse

Dear Stockraider,
Please read carefully what I wrote. I said it is sheer madness that those three counters can reach such ridiculous heights. I never said I bought them.
Also please note that I said I am conservative. Even buying blue chips which I did won't protect you when the composite index fell from around 1300 to around 240 unless you have sold out initially.
Have a good day and please don't jump to conclusions to what I wrote. I merely wanted to bring out the perils of a margin account through an experience of mine since several of you were discussing the pros and cons of margin accont.

Posted by paperplane > 2018-07-30 09:27 | Report Abuse

raider bro, the hibiscus plot is in Sabah, and a JV with PETRONAS carigali. I believe it can be safe with PETRONAS as 50% partner.