Posted by rajachulan > 2018-12-31 09:09 | Report Abuse

@probability, not because I am a TA...

but base on real life history/experience... I believe the sequence should be the other way around...to be very honest...

the FR are done by accountant, which reviewed by finance mgr, which is then 'agreed' by cfo upon the 'approval' of ceo...and the auditor is then 'hired' to audit the report... you will not find certain word like 'accurate' in the audit report... the best auditor will put is 'true and fair', that is the 'biggest risk' the auditor will take...
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probability > Dec 30, 2018 05:06 PM | Report Abuse

TA is the one that is most vulnerable to artificial inputs (manipulation).. people can easily make the chart with low volume or even with high volume transaction without a cost..

second level would be BS...on how people convince business prospects incorporating elements which are not certain..giving high optimism

FA (purely by audited financial statements, with long historical data) may stand the least chance of manipulation...

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-12-31 09:13 | Report Abuse

Rajachulan, to me u are just a newbie who thinks TA is yr only bible in stock mkt....

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-12-31 09:13 | Report Abuse

Just like Ah Jon who is so proud of his FA n England level

Both of u have yet to be tested by the mkt

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-12-31 09:17 | Report Abuse

Ops Jon has been tested for his 2-3 years training here...so far i think the actual result (in terms of dollar n cents lah) is fail

Posted by rajachulan > 2018-12-31 09:29 | Report Abuse

I practices both FA and TA Charles...

last thing I would suggest is to invest only base on FA...

when I first invest, I follow FA... did not chase high, but bravely chase low hoping to buy at bottom...and wait...some are successful...some are not... but my capital is limited...my time is limited... how many 10 yrs you have left? or 5 yrs? or even 3 yrs? what happens if you only realise that the way of invest doesn't work 10 yrs later?

if your purpose in the market is to trade daily or weekly for the sake of fun... please do...

but my purpose is clear... i need to accumulate as much as I can, and as fast as i can to reach my financial goal to achieve financial independence...

so I adapt...learning the key of TA to integrate into my existing FA knowledge to max the money I can make from the market...

never put all eggs in a same basket...never stop learning...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-31 09:30 | Report Abuse

Posted by paperplane > Dec 31, 2018 02:06 AM | Report Abuse
Kc ,if method doesn't work all the time also. Look at your perstima! U said worth how much then??? Look at it now??If want 马后炮tons on u also


You are right also. But that is what I have been saying all the time, even in this article, I also said a few times no method works all the time. Didn't you read that?

I shared a very interesting investing strategy when I wrote about Perstima, the Cold Eye five yardsticks here,

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/85405.jsp

Again it was purely for sharing purpose, a lot of effort from me and free of change to everyone. I did not ask anyone one to buy also.

Perstima's share price was about RM5.00 then. it went up above RM8.00. With the great dividend, anyone followed my analysis and bought it would have made very decent profit.

Later the cost of material went up and its profit fell sharply.

Again value investing is not about buy and hold for ever. Share price could overshoot its value. Macro and micro change. You may have better opportunities.

Anyone thanked me when he makes money? NO!

Anyone scorns me when the price now is RM4.66? Plenty, including you whom you have harped on it a few times already.

But again, whether if yu make money or loss money is not my responsibilities.

Posted by DK66 > 2018-12-31 09:34 | Report Abuse

There is nothing wrong with BS, FA, or TA. It is how good the analysts are at each of the them.

As KC has mentioned "Professional analysts who came up with a target price for Jaks without having the information of the future cash flows of the power plant (and also that of its other businesses), are simply not professional and lack credibility." So, not all FA analysts are equal.

Put it simply, if you got a right call, your method is good. Otherwise, you have to blame it on the racket as most badminton players do after they missed a shot. So, racket or skill ??

Posted by rajachulan > 2018-12-31 09:36 | Report Abuse

and @probability is right to said this in other forum.

look around you, if you realise that you cant work as hard as today until your retirement... do learn to invest... but do your homework, find your own way... there are some good article and practices in i3 for a starts...

learn from others... but dont copy...

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-31 09:42 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 09:48 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 09:49 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-31 09:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 09:53 | Report Abuse

liang..I am a trader...and I don't offer investment services.....

no need......if good why need to offer investment services?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 09:54 | Report Abuse

liang...i look at u as i look at an idiot.

Posted by Tom > 2018-12-31 09:55 | Report Abuse

for your information zhuge_Liang is otb....

Posted by qqq3 > Dec 31, 2018 09:54 AM | Report Abuse

liang...i look at u as i look at an idiot.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 09:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-12-31 10:00 | Report Abuse

Posted by paperplane > Dec 31, 2018 02:00 AM | Report Abuse
But kc, u typical马后炮also lah! If jaks pull it off,u also diam diam. Come-on,be a man. No point personal attack anyone right


Personal attack?

In all my articles I shared, I have never mentioned names. They are all about subjects, philosophies, methodologies, issues etc. The stocks chosen may be related to some personality, but that was because so happened that those stocks were related to the subjects I am discussing about.

In this article, I reminded readers that there is no Holy Grail in investing, including the "business sense" coined in i3investor, with substantiated arguments, facts and figures. So be careful, do not blindly follow it and top it up with margin finance.

So why do you have to view it as personal attack?

In this new Malaysia, do we still carry on to be politically correct, anything we discuss must not be related to certain personality?

When will we ever learn?

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-31 10:02 | Report Abuse

All old men are your grandfathers.
All wear skirts are your wifes.
Talk nonsense here.

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-31 10:07 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Heavenmessenger > 2018-12-31 10:09 | Report Abuse

kc hold grudge for long.typical small potato.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 10:14 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by tehka > 2018-12-31 10:59 | Report Abuse

otb, zhuge and kcchongnz, are very respectable and good reputation sifu in i3 community. i wish to learn from them only. not interested in any BS

Posted by tehka > 2018-12-31 11:02 | Report Abuse

I had listen to a super investor and lost on eversendai. Bs is not for me

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-31 11:08 | Report Abuse

Many of my sifu subscribers had requested my sifu OTB to compete in stock pick competition 2019 in I3.
He had agreed to compete as per the latest whatsapp message.

Posted by rajachulan > 2018-12-31 11:24 | Report Abuse

for those who think trend investment is solely reading the chart

and bang bang bang on the way in

and bang bang bang out on the way out...

enjoy reading...

https://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/files/turtlerules.pdf

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-12-31 12:56 | Report Abuse

Wah good to see otb to participate into 2019 stock picks.....he got balls

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 13:07 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by probability > 2018-12-31 13:15 | Report Abuse

OTB is geng! ..its a little ironic knowing that he is more of a chartist than a fundamental investor

Posted by CharlesT > Dec 31, 2018 12:56 PM | Report Abuse

Wah good to see otb to participate into 2019 stock picks.....he got balls

Posted by probability > 2018-12-31 13:16 | Report Abuse

DK66, rajachulan...nice knowing you guys

sure you guys got substance

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 13:20 | Report Abuse

every year....i3 portfolio popular shares pop up for a while......

Posted by probability > 2018-12-31 13:38 | Report Abuse

fair and nice comment from Jon...

the variables (inputs/information) to be considered is not limited for business sense

the outcomes is dependent on both the processor and the inputs considered

garbage in garbage out

a good processor (investor/analyst) can selectively ensure not to take in garbage information (inputs)....


Posted by Choivo Capital > Dec 31, 2018 02:10 AM | Report Abuse

Ah business sense, the eternal battle.

I get what kc is going at, most research reports in malaysia on malaysian companies is utterly horrible at this aspects.

Business sense is the ability to understand the economics of the business to its core.

It is the sense that enabled WB to buy GEICO and Netjets, both of which were massively loss making at the time of purchase. With netjets making losses for more than 5 years after the purchase.

It is the sense that enabled WB to buy Coca Cola at record valuations, before it went up another 20-30 times over the next few decades.

Business sense is the ability to see the potential and the ability of the company to execute over the next decade (at minimum) with a high level of confidence, determine its intrinsic value, and then buy at a discount to that.

This one, is the absolute hardest to teach. Even for WB, So many of his companies, bought with business sense (along with some number based FA), go holland.

Dexter shoes, Diversified retailing, Blue chip stamps etc. All gone to zero

This sense, can only come with constant studying about life, psychology, philosophy, the history of mankind, economic history, biology, physics, anthropology, finance, accounting etc etc.

In short, cannot finish studying. Good luck.

I would put it this way. If you think you have business sense, you probably don't.

If you think you can succeed with business sense alone, without understanding how to read accounts and extract insight from them, you probably won't.

Posted by Sslee > 2018-12-31 15:53 | Report Abuse

Dear KC Chong,
The greatest gift is to give people your enlightenment, to share it. It has to be the greatest- Buddha
I thank you for sharing your knowledge with the i3 community and please continues with your writing and sharing and forgive those cannot see the truth.
They blame those who remain silent, they blame those who speak much, they blame those who speak in moderation and they blame those who speak the truth. There is none in the world who is not blamed.
And remember these: The less you respond to negative people the more peaceful you will become. He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.

Dear “You-Know-Who”
Please look into mirror and reflect before you write another of your venom and foolish comment:
It is easy to see the faults of others, but difficult to see one’s own faults. One shows the faults of others like chaff winnowed in the wind, but one conceals one’s own faults as a cunning gambler conceals his dice. – Buddha
The fool who knows he is a fool is that much wiser. – Buddha

Dear all,
Praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow come and go like the wind. To be happy, rest like a giant tree in the midst of them all. - Buddha

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.- Buddha

I wish all a Happy New Year 2019.

Thank you

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 15:56 | Report Abuse

Dear sslee


stock market not for u

I think u should go to a convent.....Buddhist temple in the mountain also can......

Posted by stockraider > 2018-12-31 16:26 | Report Abuse

Raider like to define what is business sense loh...!!

If u do business u must do it commercial make sense mah...!!

Criteria of business sense loh:

1. U buy business that worth say Rm 2.00 for rm 0.70 that is business sense loh...!!

2. U buy a business that worth Rm 0.70 for rm 1.00 but u see potential prospect the business can grow to rm 2.50....that is business sense loh...!!

3. U buy a stock for Rm 0.70 bcos u know people will pay rm 1.20 when the stock is short of supply loh...!! ....that is trading business sense loh....!!

U buy a stock for Rm 0.70 bcos u speculate that ahfatt is willing to pay rm 1.10 in the potential privatization of the business loh...!!

All these business sense of investment has commercial business value element ascribe to your purchase of particular stock loh...!!

Posted by 888newbie > 2018-12-31 16:39 | Report Abuse

Everyone has their own style of investing. To each his own.

Posted by Zhuge_Liang > 2018-12-31 16:49 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 16:52 | Report Abuse

when liang joins forces with SSLee.....nothing good ever comes out of it....two idiots talking......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-12-31 17:01 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Haw Liao > 2019-01-01 08:41 | Report Abuse

if u invest, whether is business sense, TA or FA...the more indicators the better

if u just trade short term, TA and FA will do

but only applies well in dow jones...why?

because huge markets less chance to manipulate, if u sense abuse, still have time/chance to exit/cutloss

but bursa different...u know what i mean

Posted by Haw Liao > 2019-01-01 08:43 | Report Abuse

bursa is similar to pasar malam...

dow jones like hyper market...

pasar malam alot pick pockets

lol

Posted by 3iii > 2019-01-01 09:31 | Report Abuse

Business sense is not dead.

Those who thought they knew the businesses they invested into, may have realised their losses were due to their poor understanding of their invested business.

They should be humble they got their analysis wrong and realised their mistakes, rectifying these for their future investments.

Posted by paperplane > 2019-01-01 10:45 | Report Abuse

Sorry lah, ur investment method just doesn't make sense for me.. Simple as tht.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-01-01 11:01 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
KCChong define value investor do not mean holding the share for eternality (do not fall in love with the share) but to sell when the share price had overshot its intrinsic value.

May I ask is Nestle current price already overshot its intrinsic value.
And why PETDAG is a value buy but not Petronm and Hengyuan?

Thank you

Posted by Haw Liao > 2019-01-01 11:20 | Report Abuse

mr.sslee...

refineries low profit margins...

business is about margins, not volumes

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-01-01 11:21 | Report Abuse

Posted by Connie555 > Dec 31, 2018 11:23 AM | Report Abuse
Kc u still hv high respect from me, and i know all ur articles hv only one goal, which is to educate people so that they dont lose money in klse and i hv to admit that even me myself also benefited alot from you. just that today i come out with such comments is because at timing like this everybody might lose money, and particularly this 2 share for which the share price plunged alot might even trigger some of the feeling of those who lost money in it. Maybe educational article is more suitable to post when all the dust has settled down.
Tmr new year already, i rest my case here, tired to argue haha.
My apology if my comments offended you, and i wish everyone here included KC and ur family a Happy New Year.

Glad you understand my intention in sharing of articles here.

Happy new year to you and your family too.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-01-01 15:35 | Report Abuse

Dear KCChong,
Thanks for the offer. I waiting for my taxi to pick me up to KLIA 2 for my flight back to Medan.

Thank you

Posted by enning22 > 2019-01-01 19:34 | Report Abuse

don't be silly,“Business Sense”is just a small part of fundamental analysis.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-01 20:51 | Report Abuse

business sense is every thing.....

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/qqq3/188428.jsp

Posted by 3iii > 2019-01-02 06:56 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Cruz Omomoh > 2019-01-16 21:12 | Report Abuse

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