Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-08-13 07:49 | Report Abuse

Hi I am very interested in this sphere but I lack much understanding about it. Can you enlighten me?


3) IF Bitcoin is a "scam" and its really bad, why has it been around for over 10 years. Why are the smart money into Bitcoin?
A famous quote once said: "Don't follow what smart money says. Follow where the smart money is"

>>>>
If Bitcoin is good, why are ICOs being started almost every other day with it's open block chain application? Why is Bitcoin itself forking? Bitcoin is the first, but it's technology is very time consuming and expensive to mine, store and deliver ( compared to many new coins like etherium, and new systems). Bitcoin is the first ( like altavista, netscape, rocketmail), but it's it the most efficient? ( Like google) 10 years from now, will Bitcoin still exist? Or will another more efficient and faster ( and easier to use) and more government friendly.

2) It is an asset that is not tied to the GDP / Earnings / Economy / Political Influence . ( Unlike stocks/ commodities / bonds/ etfs/ unit trust/ property )

>>>>>>>>

Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory

Bitcoin is banned in China, and I suspect sooner or later china will either produce it's own crypto currency, or wechat ( tencent) alipay (Alibaba), Uber/grabpay, Facebook credit, bigpay(airasia), will all produce their own currency platform. The biggest reason for owning Bitcoin is it's ease of use, but in the end it is still tied to your local currency ( you need myr to buy btc after all, it doesn't stand alone like to USD or myr which is tied to the country). Wechat becomes a very efficient model of fast efficient online payments and wallets with huge growing traction of accepted merchants while Bitcoin is being banned in so many countries. What is the possibility of future fast transfer and payment models following WeChat model instead of Bitcoin model which antagonize so many countries?


1) Bitcoin existed since 2008 and is one of the best performing asset in the world.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Bitcoin also had one of the biggest bubbles and crashes in history of a commodity that is tied to nothing ( although the tulip crash might have been far spectacular) . It is the purest form of derivatives, where almost every single buyer is buying based on speculation that one day Bitcoin will be an efficient and powerful tool of internet economy.

But if you were to look into the intrinsic value of Bitcoin

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-08-13 07:49 | Report Abuse

thought you have nothing more to learn in life ?

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-08-13 08:04 | Report Abuse

My understanding is there is a few hard truths to Bitcoin platform. Here is my fundamentals understanding. Please help me to revise.

1) There are 21 million bitcoins in total, which once fully mined becomes the control limit. However the entire system runs on Bitcoin miners. Currently Bitcoin miners make money from the Bitcoin rewards of mining. After mining is effectively over, the only money to make is from transaction charges. At this point, the transaction costs will either escalate to banking levels so miners will stay, or miners will leave and stop processing of bitcoins, causing the system to be slower, more expensive to process, and causing problems to Bitcoin platform itself.

2) there is also 1 million+ bitcoins floating which is unaccounted for and believed to being to the Satoshi group. There is a possibility the hard drive and password was lost, but also a likely possibility they were behind the crash and dumping of the bitcoin bubble as they cashed out at 20k USD. Will this happen again? As there is no accountability in Bitcoin( with counbase, Mt gox, and subsequent bans and crash of Bitcoin depositories) trust is a huge issue going forward.

3) until today, no one is able to calculate or define an INTRINSIC value for bitcoin. What is your take on it? How much do you value Bitcoin and why?

Cheers and thanks for your reply.

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-08-13 08:30 | Report Abuse

Always something to learn every day.

I'm also waiting for your vlog with one hand on the steering wheel and the other contrarian buying Lotte at 4.15, and both eyes watched it down to 2.50. What's the plan? do we buy? Hold? Cutloss?

Interestingly,

Lotte current market cap now at 6 billion. Revenue of 4 cumulative quarters of 9 billion, 380 million in earnings.

It's IPO was 15 billion in 2017. Revenue of 8 billion, 1.3 billion earnings, with plans to upgrade older plants.

Even more interesting when they privatised titan chemical back in 2011, it had revenues of 6.3 billion, 300 million in earnings (5%), and a takeover price of 4 billion back then.

At 5% margins, how do we invest around this? But facts around this volatile company is obviously useless.

>>>>>>>>

Icon8888 thought you have nothing more to learn in life ?
13/08/2019 7:49 AM

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 10:58 | Report Abuse

Bitcoin investors are like HK protestors..........They know some thing is wrong, but unable to say clearly what is wrong.............

HK protestors know HK is going down the drain and very frustrated......

Bitcoin investors know US $ cannot be trusted and very frustrated.......


but what is the solution?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 11:07 | Report Abuse

me? For 6 months - 1 year horizon, bitcoin is a good trade............

Posted by GreenTrade > 2019-08-13 11:18 | Report Abuse

@(S=QR) Philip

>>>>
If Bitcoin is good, why are ICOs being started almost every other day with it's open block chain application? Why is Bitcoin itself forking? Bitcoin is the first, but it's technology is very time consuming and expensive to mine, store and deliver ( compared to many new coins like etherium, and new systems). Bitcoin is the first ( like altavista, netscape, rocketmail), but it's it the most efficient? ( Like google) 10 years from now, will Bitcoin still exist? Or will another more efficient and faster ( and easier to use) and more government friendly.


Answer: 95% of ICOs are not relevant. Late in 2017, many ICOs went up and there was the ICO Boom. Any ICO could easily double in value in the first few days. However, many investors eventually lost money and now they are smarter.

Bitcoin is the first and may not be the most efficient. There are many new projects that are faster in transaction speed than Bitcoin.

However, many people see value in it and are willing to exchange goods and services for it.




2) It is an asset that is not tied to the GDP / Earnings / Economy / Political Influence . ( Unlike stocks/ commodities / bonds/ etfs/ unit trust/ property )

>>>>>>>>

Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_terr...

Bitcoin is banned in China, and I suspect sooner or later china will either produce it's own crypto currency, or wechat ( tencent) alipay (Alibaba), Uber/grabpay, Facebook credit, bigpay(airasia), will all produce their own currency platform. The biggest reason for owning Bitcoin is it's ease of use, but in the end it is still tied to your local currency ( you need myr to buy btc after all, it doesn't stand alone like to USD or myr which is tied to the country). Wechat becomes a very efficient model of fast efficient online payments and wallets with huge growing traction of accepted merchants while Bitcoin is being banned in so many countries. What is the possibility of future fast transfer and payment models following WeChat model instead of Bitcoin model which antagonize so many countries?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Answer:

Bitcoin is banned in China. China wants huge control over the Yuan/its own currencies. Bitcoin does not give China control due to its decentralized nature. The easy way out would be to ban Bitcoin.


China is already producing its own cryptocurrency.

Initially, it would take fiat to buy Bitcoin. However,

All cryptocurrencies are tied to Bitcoin. Example:
Eth/ Btc , Usdt/Btc , Xrp/Btc

Therefore, everyone needs to buy Bitcoin to obtain goods and services in the cryptosphere.

The wechat model is good. Mass adoption is the number 1 challenge that we face today. When that problem is solved and when Bitcoin is able to be transacted seamlessly, that would be amazing.



1) Bitcoin existed since 2008 and is one of the best performing asset in the world.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Bitcoin also had one of the biggest bubbles and crashes in history of a commodity that is tied to nothing ( although the tulip crash might have been far spectacular) . It is the purest form of derivatives, where almost every single buyer is buying based on speculation that one day Bitcoin will be an efficient and powerful tool of internet economy.

But if you were to look into the intrinsic value of Bitcoin



>>>>>>
Answer:

The USD is also tied to nothing apart from the trust to the US government. The USD Hasn't Been Linked to Gold for 45 Years.

What is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

It could be the world's first currency accepted any where in the world.

What is a currency?
It just takes two people to be willing to accept it in exchange for goods and services.

Example.
Imagine if everyone accepted Bitcoin as a form of payment.
Pay bills with bitcoin, buy mcdonalds with bitcoin, buy cars with bitcoin, travel overseas with bitcoin.

Many companies are starting to accept Bitcoin as a form of payment.
Then.. it would be an actual official currency that could be worth trillions in market cap.

Posted by GreenTrade > 2019-08-13 11:23 | Report Abuse

However, Fiat currency may still exist. Governments may still need to cater to those without mobile phones and internet connection.

Therefore, digital assets and fiat currency may actually co-exist.

Hope it helps

Posted by GreenTrade > 2019-08-13 11:31 | Report Abuse

3) until today, no one is able to calculate or define an INTRINSIC value for bitcoin. What is your take on it? How much do you value Bitcoin and why?

>>>>>
We are still discovering the intrinsic value for Bitcoin.
However, people have been comparing it to gold and fiat currency which are worth trillions.


My take is that Bitcoin would eventually reach 1 trillion dollars in market cap.

Which is around the $50k level. ( Probably in 1-2 years due to the "halvening")

The more the number of people that use/accept/ exchange it, the greater in value Bitcoin will rise.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 11:34 | Report Abuse

want to bet/ gamble?

6 months/ 1 year horizon.............Bitcoin not a bad idea.........

Posted by GreenTrade > 2019-08-13 11:45 | Report Abuse

Its not really a gamble.

Its a hedge against all economic factors.

Just like gold

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 11:47 | Report Abuse

gamble or sure thing ? just opinion............

Posted by stockraider > 2019-08-13 11:49 | Report Abuse

The best protection against inflation is margin of safety investment loh.....!!

Posted by stockraider > Aug 13, 2019 11:34 AM | Report Abuse X

Bland up steadily about 0.5 sen everyday last wk mah.....From today onwards will up 1 sen everyday loh...!!

Why like that leh ??
Einstein law of physics says when and object build up momentum upwards it will accelerate upwards loh....!!

U CANNOT RUN AWAY FROM THE LAW OF NATURE MAH....BLAND SUREWIN UP LOH..!


Posted by stockraider > Aug 13, 2019 11:41 AM | Report Abuse X

Can u stop bland acceleration leh ???
Very difficult loh...once momentum is in place mah...!!

With Bland with huge margin of safety with intrinsic value of Rm 0.70 to 0.92 buying & chasing bland at Rm 0.185 to Rm 0.19 is a steal mah..!!

If u don believe u wait 1 mth and see what is bland price loh...!!

The lesson here, if u interested bland take the seller price as to wait for it to pullback to enter, u may end up disappointed mah...!!

Go...Go...Go ....loh...!! $$$$$$$$$$ coming mah....!!

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 11:55 | Report Abuse

China ban bitcoin? I not aware.....but I know China together with Iceland were the largest miner of bit coins a few years back.............

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 11:57 | Report Abuse

it became not viable when prices drop too low..........

Posted by GreenTrade > 2019-08-13 12:07 | Report Abuse

Dear @SPMstudent.

I Disagree.
You are extremely wrong.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-08-13 12:15 | Report Abuse

Why bitcoin ??
Where is the intrinsic value leh ??

Always buy things where there is intrinsic value for safe investment mah...!!

Posted by jasonor > 2019-08-13 12:43 | Report Abuse

u need bitcoin if u want to have a transaction of illegal stuff because it won't have money trail.

Posted by alivetoinvest > 2019-08-13 13:00 | Report Abuse

It is actually HARDER to track illegal activities that use CASH
instead of Bitcoin

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-08-13 15:19 | Report Abuse

bitcoin is needed by corporations to pay hackers who demand payments in bitcoin..........

Posted by Yu_and_Mee > 2019-08-13 16:50 | Report Abuse

those calling to buy bitcoin, are they all-in to bitcoin? If not, not convincing enough. If already all-in to bitcoin, please share evidence. Else, just cheating only.

Posted by nkw014 > 2019-08-13 21:20 | Report Abuse

There's no doubt e-money going to be a trend in rear future but bear in mind that only government got the power in money printing (even e-money as well). Cause there got the army(gun).

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-08-13 22:19 | Report Abuse

Hi what is the basis of this assumption? Why not 2 trillion, 10 trillion or 100? If 10 years ago bitcoin was worth 1 USD, it should be just as easy to believe that it can reach 100k or 200k per bitcoin level, no? But the main driver for this would clearly be speculative activities correct? As bitcoin itself does not generate any asset classes or consumable products.

>>>>>>>

My take is that Bitcoin would eventually reach 1 trillion dollars in market cap.

Which is around the $50k level. ( Probably in 1-2 years

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-08-13 22:34 | Report Abuse

Interesting concept. But I believe that bitcoin is accepted far less around the world than visa and MasterCard. In terms of exchange of goods and services, credit cards are far more efficient currently than bitcoin, which I believe when ask the bitcoins are mined, the transaction costs will be more than Visa.

I don't think bitcoin is a currency, if every transaction done on bitcoin is fine in relation to a real world currency.

No one ever buys out sells bitcoin. It is always bitcoin as a measure of value in comparison with the USD. More of a conversion of value for acceptable transaction, with no underwriting value or protection of the bitcoin value. I could buy a Bitcoin at 17k, and tomorrow it would drop to 6k and the next 11k. This huge variance is a very difficult upsell as a currency. A currency truly only works if it is stable and resilient to problems of supply and demand. A store of value works best if the asset is backed by real world usage demand.

Bitcoin will never be accepted every where in the world for the simple fact that there are still many many places where you will not have internet or social engineering to facilitate ready use of Bitcoin.

In fact, the world first currency to be accepted anywhere in the world is the British pound, followed by the us dollar.

To be honest, I am sure crypto currency will be a thing. I just don't see why Bitcoin will be it.

>>>>>>

It could be the world's first currency accepted any where in the world.

What is a currency?
It just takes two people to be willing to accept it in exchange for goods and services.

Posted by valuelurker > 2019-08-13 22:42 | Report Abuse

Who needs buttcoin and alternatives when you have the MIGHTY MIGHTY DOW AND THE FED AND THE GREATEST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD DONALD TRUMPPPPP

Posted by GreenTrade > 2019-08-13 23:26 | Report Abuse

@Phillip

"No one ever buys out sells bitcoin. It is always bitcoin as a measure of value in comparison with the USD. More of a conversion of value for acceptable transaction, with no underwriting value or protection of the bitcoin value. I could buy a Bitcoin at 17k, and tomorrow it would drop to 6k and the next 11k. This huge variance is a very difficult upsell as a currency. A currency truly only works if it is stable and resilient to problems of supply and demand. A store of value works best if the asset is backed by real world usage demand. "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The Argentinian Pesso just dropped 30% in value overnight due to political factors.
Imagine if you were an Argentinian. How would you feel?

Would you be more open minded to accept Bitcoin or would you be holding on to the Argentinian Pesso? Would Argentinians still entrust the their lifetime savings of Pessos to the Government?


Venezuela/ Zimbabwee/ South Africa and other countries that have experienced hyperinflation are welcoming Bitcoin.


Now just imagine if one day, a severe economic crisis happens and the value of the US Dollar inflates by 50%. Would the people still trust the US government or would they be open to explore Bitcoin as a currency


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There are still many many places where you will not have internet or social engineering to facilitate ready use of Bitcoin.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ans: Therefore, Fiat currency will co-exist with crypto and the government has to help these people by enforcing that fiat must be accepted.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In summary,
There are two types of people.

1) People that thinks Bitcoin is rubbish
2) Hardcore Bitcoin and crypto enthusiasts


What if the next president of xxxxx is the latter?