3 people like this.

55 comment(s). Last comment by godhand 2 months ago

TIticamara

131 posts

Posted by TIticamara > 2024-01-16 13:27 | Report Abuse

When do we sell?

GLNT

549 posts

Posted by GLNT > 2024-01-16 13:51 | Report Abuse

This stock cannot be timed. The boss has no intentions of unlocking and rewarding shareholders, there are no outsiders ready to launch a hostile takeover, boss is not interested to take it private or don't know when...Anybody who wants to make a profit from this will have to wait forever. Value trap due to boss who's only interested to keep his own share price as low as possible.

TanDavid88

1,082 posts

Posted by TanDavid88 > 2024-01-17 12:30 |

Post removed.Why?

stockraider

31,556 posts

Posted by stockraider > 2024-01-17 20:17 | Report Abuse

U need to get your bearing right loh!
Insas is not a value trap mah!

In fact Raider see Insas is a rocket ready to takeoff high high mah!

If u r a true value fundamental investor, u stick to the position of buying stocks which has huge potential to rerate high due to very sharp undervaluation loh!

stockraider

31,556 posts

Posted by stockraider > 2024-01-17 20:19 | Report Abuse

Lets put it this way loh!

Today we have almost 5 stocks today that had shown large limit down for the past 5 days loh!
That are :
1. Rapid Rm 3.96 v highest rm 29.54
2 YNH Rm 1.22 v highest Rm 5,20
3. SCIB Rm 0.535 v Rm 1,20
4. Mercury Rm 0.455 v Rm 0.9
5. Imaspro Rm 1.23 v Rm 6.00

A simple financial check will indicates all these are not supported by strong fundamental financial matrix of namely NTA, PE, DIV, ROE, Growth despite had been goreng up sky high loh!

It finanally collapse loh!

If u compare all these 5 stocks...fundamental perform poorly v INSAS loh!

The the reasons why INSAS share has big upside and sustained at current high level, whereas the 5 loser stocks, Raider mentioned fell like 10 pins loh!

The current mkt run up are mainly supported by strong fundamental like Insas, Kseng & OSK that surge strongly beside having good earnings & good strong balance sheets, it has very good sustainable fundamental loh!

Investors are advise to be wary of high speculative stocks & peg their investment that can be supported by good margin of safety like very good pick insas mah!

stockraider

31,556 posts

Posted by stockraider > 2024-01-17 20:21 | Report Abuse

Yes & No loh!

10 yrs ago insas Nta is roughly Rm 1.90 & its EPS is around 13.9 sen with share price 80 sen.
Today Nta is Rm 3.56 & eps is 18 sen with share price Rm 1.20.

Surely a dumb fellow using warren buffet formula will had notice insas wealth has grown by rm 1.66 per share or about 16 sen pa over the 10 yrs loh!

And added back div about roughly 1.5 sen div pa avg your total cash generation from insas is about 17.5 sen pa mah!

If your IRR is 10% pa.....surely base earnings Insas should easily worth Rm 1.75 per share loh!

Remember in 2015, Inari only worth less than Rm 1 billion loh but today it is worth more than Rm 12B mah!
Also we have not factor in the hidden reserve of Inari mark to mkt gain for insas holding of about rm 1.6b which is additional gain of rm 2.42 per share for insas loh!

Thus Insas shareholder funds plus Inari hidden reserve mark to mkt gain will contribute potential wealth of Rm 6.00 per share to insas loh!

Surely insas will worth much more than Rm 1.20 loh!

Posted by paperplane > 54 minutes ago | Report Abuse

insas FOREVER UNDERVALUED, IN FACT undervalue more than 10 years.....lol. what does it tell you then/

speakup

25,316 posts

Posted by speakup > 2024-01-17 21:27 | Report Abuse

Mestron will limit down tomorrow

arv18

2,645 posts

Posted by arv18 > 2024-01-18 10:46 | Report Abuse

come on now. you've answered your own question.

and not "perceived". it is one.

cherry picking a month (Jan) and year (2009) to suit your story is wee bit sad tbh.

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2024-01-18 11:31 | Report Abuse

Posted by arv18 > 38 minutes ago | Report Abuse
come on now. you've answered your own question.
and not "perceived". it is one.
cherry picking a month (Jan) and year (2009) to suit your story is wee bit sad tbh.

Thanks for your comment. You are definitely not the only few who think Insas is a value trap. Many seemingly good investors also think so, and I think you are not wrong.
However, I am not responsible for your "sadness" in my "story". I have no control over it.
The date January 2009 was chosen as I was trying to look at look term return, rather on the noises in the short term, and 15 years was the longest I could get as you can see from the chart in the article.
Well, you could do some homework to choose other dates to substantiate your theory of value trap of Insas. I am sure you can do that. So which return you want to chose, 10-year, 5 year, or one year, or 9.8 years? And was Insas a value trap basing on your choice of reference? Would like to see your analysis.

ahbah

6,082 posts

Posted by ahbah > 2024-01-18 12:11 | Report Abuse

The whole mkt is now a fire burning trap ? Not just Insas ?

CharlesT

14,587 posts

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-01-18 12:15 | Report Abuse

Posted by arv18 > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse

come on now. you've answered your own question.

and not "perceived". it is one.

cherry picking a month (Jan) and year (2009) to suit your story is wee bit sad tbh.

100% agreed

CharlesT

14,587 posts

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-01-18 12:16 | Report Abuse

Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas

qqq47660

8,718 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-18 12:24 | Report Abuse

insas jump from 1 to 1.20...............kc has done his job. or was it after the jump?

CharlesT

14,587 posts

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-01-18 12:28 | Report Abuse

KC is just a normal human being like us.

He needs to cari makan also

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2024-01-18 12:47 | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 26 minutes ago | Report Abuse
Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas.

Thanks for your advice. May be you are right. However, I have benefited immensely from i3investors. Good to contribute back, I think.
But why do you think I need to "promote" Insas? Have I really promoted any shares in i3investor since years ago, or was I just sharing my points of views on various stocks?

CharlesT

14,587 posts

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-01-18 12:50 | Report Abuse

The timing...

At least SSLee has been holding n promoting Insas for years...when it was rm0.80+ i think

U only come now to promote after price shot up

CharlesT

14,587 posts

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-01-18 12:55 | Report Abuse

But still better than OTB lah

OTB gave buy call on Insas-WC when it broke new high of rm0.40+...lol

xiaoeh

2,356 posts

Posted by xiaoeh > 2024-01-18 13:24 | Report Abuse

i sincerely hope Kcchongnz's analysis can always come out before price moved.

OTB

11,126 posts

Posted by OTB > 2024-01-18 13:30 |

Post removed.Why?

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2024-01-18 16:05 | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse
Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas

I do agree with you although there is no intention of promoting Insas. It is no use to be in a forum when the only thing the participants talk about is the share price.

Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".

Posted by Permutation > 2024-01-18 17:55 | Report Abuse

@OTB
"Yes, it is my mistake.
I did recommend to buy 30% at 0.40, buy another 30% on correction and add 40% if the share price can cross 0.40 after correction.
I agreed this recommendation report only come out at night.
It is in a hurry, everyone is asking me to buy Insas.
I will be more careful in future, will not recommend if I do not have my strategy plan.
I am sorry."

So it is no longer a buy on WC now ??

OTB

11,126 posts

Posted by OTB > 2024-01-18 21:10 | Report Abuse

I believe it is still a buy.
Buy on weakness.
Thank you.

OTB

11,126 posts

Posted by OTB > 2024-01-18 21:19 | Report Abuse

Please stop to attack kcchongnz.
I wish kcchongnz will continue to post his good article in I3 to benefit all readers.
I3 is short of good analyst like kcchongnz.
I believe kcchongnz is capable and a good FA analyst.
I learn all my FA lessons from him, kcchongnz is my best FA teacher.
dragon328 is a very good FA analyst, I believe kcchongnz is also another good FA analyst.
kcchongnz, welcome back to I3, we miss you a lot.
Thank you.

TIticamara

131 posts

Posted by TIticamara > 2024-01-18 21:26 | Report Abuse

So now its buy or no buy or cut loss?

qqq47660

8,718 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-18 22:01 | Report Abuse

buy low sell high is buy low volume sell high volume

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2024-01-21 07:58 | Report Abuse

Tlticamara, why you need to cut loss? Thought everyone was making tons of money on Insas.

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2024-01-21 08:03 | Report Abuse

Insas isn't a value trap until you have experienced been trapped. Those who don't learn from that will be trapped until his last breath.

stockraider

31,556 posts

Posted by stockraider > 2024-01-21 12:56 | Report Abuse

Very good investment principle loh!

When u talk about share always look beyond the share price, and reflect on its business, terms of business potential, its cashflow, its assets valuation n its liquidity & cash holding loh!

Insas perform highly above those matrix mah!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2 days ago | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse
Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas

I do agree with you although there is no intention of promoting Insas. It is no use to be in a forum when the only thing the participants talk about is the share price.

Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".

stockraider

31,556 posts

Posted by stockraider > 2024-01-22 20:34 | Report Abuse

Remember this loh!

Upside of Insas is not value trap mah!

But it is investors price discovery of the good enormous value insas which rerate its share upward mah!

In fact as more people discover the value of insas, which be much higher, it will go up higher & higher loh!

Tong Kooi Ong a tycoon had value insas at Rm 4.33 per share mah!

stockraider

31,556 posts

Posted by stockraider > 2024-01-23 08:01 | Report Abuse

Alot of Insas value investors sifu after holding so long have dispose a sizeable of their holdings, R they right in disposing so soon leh ?

Ans; As a value investor selling so soon is wrong loh! As our master sifu Tong Kooi Ong had indicated a conservative fair value of Rm 4.33, thus selling at Rm 1.30 & below is a wrong decision loh! Surely u can safely hold on insas longer & sell it at 50% fair value that is roughly Rm 2.15 per share mah!

The only justifications of selling insas prematurely at Rm 1.30 & below is just to buy insurance loh! In which alot of sellers did that loh!
But after selling enough to buy adequate insurance, it is time u hang on to your remaining insas for higher target above Rm 2.15 loh!

Forget of all the naysayers shouting value traps lah! This lah! That lah!

Just have convictions & believe in the proven facts that insas worth alot of monies above Rm 4.33 loh!

Thats how value investors become damn rich loh!

OTB

11,126 posts

Posted by OTB > 2024-01-23 11:06 |

Post removed.Why?

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

After 6 weeks, the question resurfaces again : IS INSAS A VALUE TRAP ?

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

When this article was written Insas was at 1.27. Today Insas closed at 1.09. So, is Insas a value trap?

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

TheContrarian
When this article was written Insas was at 1.27. Today Insas closed at 1.09. So, is Insas a value trap?

If you make a decision based on your statement above to decide and demand me to say I have been wrong whether Insas a value trap or not, that is your prerogative, and I respect your opinion. My point of view is just different from you as I looked at a whole lot of different things, all in the article itself.
Do you expect everyone thinks the same?

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

I sincerely think most people think Insas is a value trap. Had I not thought so I wouldn't have completely exited thrice near the peak in the past ten years or so, making a 4 fold gain from my initial investment by buying back near bottom after having sold near peak.

arv18

2,645 posts

Posted by arv18 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

nicely trapped the waterfish...

kcchongnz

6,684 posts

Posted by kcchongnz > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

TheContrarian
I sincerely think most people think Insas is a value trap. Had I not thought so I wouldn't have completely exited thrice near the peak in the past ten years or so, making a 4 fold gain from my initial investment by buying back near bottom after having sold near peak.

Congrats, in market timing, you are the best.

But I am confused here. Did you profit from a value stock or a value trap.

For value stock, investor buys it when it is selling cheap, have to buy first. When the price goes up, then you sell it and you profit from it. And repeat, just like what you have been doing for Insas.

But for a value trap, the share appears to be cheap and you buy it. Because it is a value trap, it is never cheap in the first place, and the price continues to go down. No dividends too. So how come you were so good profiting in 4 folds in trading in a value trap? It is never suppose to go up for you to profit, isn't it.

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

At 1.28 Insas is a value trap, at 60 sen it is a value stock. No price stays down forever (unless it gets delisted) and no price stays up forever.

arv18

2,645 posts

Posted by arv18 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

if you have the money, buy Broadcom (AVGO) shares/options. Or Inari directly. Don't waste time with Insas.

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

If you buy 10,000 shares at 60 sen, sells all at RM1.10 your original RM6,000 becomes RM11,000 and with that amount you can later buy back say, 15,000 shares at around 70 sen. Then sell the 15,000 shares at RM1.20 to get RM18,000. Later when price drops back to say, 80 sen, you can buy 22,500 shares. And after selling off 22,500 shares at say, average price of RM1.30 you realised a total of RM29,250 , that's a gain of RM23,250 from your initial cost of investment of RM6,000 , almost 4 fold gain.

arv18

2,645 posts

Posted by arv18 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

cool story bro...

Sslee

4,988 posts

Posted by Sslee > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Bravo.
This is how you play with value trap/value stock.
Do not be like leno trapped for 15 years and only want to sell at RM 60.

Ah Thong trap/lock a lot of value inside insas, waiting to be unlocked someday.

TheContrarian

8,942 posts

Posted by TheContrarian > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

You don't learn this by reading stock investment books or attending investment talks, you earn the gains by actually timing when to buy and when to exit, all decision by yourself.

Hush77

1,258 posts

Posted by Hush77 > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

well i wouldnt invest in a value trap, unless the management has plan to unlock the value..
also if the value is in shares, the actual value could be much lesser....since if the shares is dump to the market , it probably wont be worth much...unless there is a buyer...

Sslee

4,988 posts

Posted by Sslee > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Go and read Insas financial report and tell us how much in current assets especially cash and FD.

xiaoeh

2,356 posts

Posted by xiaoeh > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > 2 hours ago | Report Abuse
Go and read Insas financial report and tell us how much in current assets especially cash and FD

a) Current Asset: 2,069,816,000
b) Cash & Bank Bal: 154,699,000
c) Deposit: 940,928,000
b+c= 1,095,627,000

Correct Sslee sifu?
and what does this mean?

Sslee

4,988 posts

Posted by Sslee > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

This mean Ah Thong accumulate/lock in to much value/current assets/cash/FD inside insas. Hence Insas ia a value trap waiting to be unlocked some fine day.

In conclusion buy below 90 sen and sell above RM 1.20 and repeat few times as what TheContrarian did for 4X gain.

xiaoeh

2,356 posts

Posted by xiaoeh > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

noted thanks sifu Sslee
wah....
now i can really feel that this is a value trapped....
will patiently wait at my dock no. 0.860 and quick quick on board then...
appreciate Sslee sifu
learnt something new

godhand

1,885 posts

Posted by godhand > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

If you make a decision based on your statement above to decide and demand me to say I have been wrong whether Insas a value trap or not, that is your prerogative, and I respect your opinion. My point of view is just different from you as I looked at a whole lot of different things, all in the article itself.
Do you expect everyone thinks the same?

what is your definition of value from the perspective of a minority shareholder.

xiaoeh

2,356 posts

Posted by xiaoeh > 2 months ago | Report Abuse

Dear Godhand
would u mind pick up some points from the article that go align with your value trap definition?
just a brief one will do as a point form

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