Posted by Wealthy99 > 2023-02-21 21:35 | Report Abuse

propose 4.00 then let them negotiate to 3.50 then 3.00. Sealed.

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-21 21:36 | Report Abuse

Low today 1.98

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-23 14:49 | Report Abuse

last week, dumbMoney so active, icap also so active
this week, dumbMoney sleep, icap also sleep

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-23 14:54 | Report Abuse

dumbMoney got powerrrr to move up/down icap

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-23 17:29 | Report Abuse

@speakup Haha, like that I better start my own CEF then. Last week was the verdict of the court case, so did a bit of post mortem, that's all. Good thing it is along the lines I analysed, otherwise would be accused of posting rubbish again.

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-23 20:22 | Report Abuse

Can anyone explain why Icap refuses to do share buy back to narrow the huge discount ?

Posted by observatory > 2023-02-23 20:49 | Report Abuse

Share buyback --> asset size reduced. As a manager, do you prefer a larger or smaller asset base?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-23 20:54 | Report Abuse

@observatory Depending on how the bought back shares are kept in the books. If as treasury shares, there is no change in AUM, just a swap of cash for treasury shares. It is only when the shares are cancelled that there is a reduction in AUM.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-23 20:58 | Report Abuse

But when the shares are cancelled, the NAV per remaining share goes up because the discount to NAV is realised, So what the shareholders' gains will be the manager's loss.

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-23 20:58 | Report Abuse

think TTB dont want to do share buyback to push up the shares for COL

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-23 20:58 | Report Abuse

why help the 'enemy'?

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-23 21:00 | Report Abuse

I agree with observatory, TTB cannot charge management fees on funds used for share buyback as share buyback is carried out by ICAP itself.

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-23 21:05 | Report Abuse

Share buyback actually increases the NAV per share

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-23 21:37 | Report Abuse

@Just88 This is how the numbers are derived. If shares are bought back at say $2 when the NAV is say $3.40, when the shares are cancelled, the difference between the cost and NAV ($3.40-$2.00) i.e. $1.40, is then distributed among the remaining shareholders. So maximum allowed buyback of 10% paid up capital =14 million shares, surplus of $1.40 each = 19.6 million, shared by remaining (140-14) 126 million shares = 15.55 sen/share increase in NAV. This has the same effect as buying 28 million worth of shares from the market and selling them for 47.6 million, realising a profit of 19.6 million in the P&L accounts.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-23 21:46 | Report Abuse

Read https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/08/09/off-radar-stock-warren-buffett-bought-62-billion/

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-23 21:49 | Report Abuse

Since July 17, 2018, WB has overseen the repurchase of more than $62 billion of Berkshire Hathaway Class A and B stock. That's far more than Buffett's company has invested in Apple or Chevron.

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-24 09:14 | Report Abuse

Icap is very very illiquid at this price. It doesn't take much money to push it 10% 20% to 2.20 2.40

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-24 09:30 | Report Abuse

So, TTB thinks it is unwise to do share buyback as it will widen the discount ?

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-24 20:24 | Report Abuse

In the interest of the long term investors/shareholders, ICAP should do share buyback as it will immediately increase the NAV per share of ICAP. Should the BOD acts in the best interest of its shareholders or the fund manager ?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-24 22:49 | Report Abuse

A share buyback at a discount is effectively a transfer of wealth from the selling shareholders to the remaining shareholders, so this has a psychological impact on those intending to sell, why should they lose out on the price discount by selling? Better let others sell and
i reap the benefits by keeping the shares instead. This will slow down the supply of sellers and can help narrow the discount. In US, companies can announce big buybacks, but are under no obligation to buy in full, just for the psychological impact on the share price, because that imply a temporary floor price supporting the share, giving confidence to the buyers to come in, and for sellers to hold back.

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-24 23:12 | Report Abuse

Yes, I agree. Then ICAP should do share buyback by all means ! Why keep talking about the quality of shareholders that is causing the large discount ??

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-24 23:33 | Report Abuse

WB has told shareholders that Berkshire will consider share buybacks if price drops below 1.2 times its intrinsic value. Given the financial strength of the company and the reputation of WB, this forms an invisible support line to investors confidence.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-24 23:38 | Report Abuse

Can you imagine the consequences if iCap succeeds in its claim that COL is in breach of the limit and forced the latter to turn sellers? The exact opposite effect of announcing a share buyback plan.

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-25 19:59 | Report Abuse

Need to wait patiently for durian runtuh

Posted by JohnD0ugh > 2023-02-26 13:38 | Report Abuse

1. b) Pershing Square Holdings

The strategy of attracting individual investors was copied by Pershing Square Holdings (PSH), the 2nd largest closed-end fund in the world. Despite massively buying back its own shares and making regular dividend payments, PSH encountered the same NAV discount issue as Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust.

"In 2021, we increased our marketing efforts in the UK., specifically to retail investors and the 'platforms' they use, and remain focused on reaching a broader array of potential investors". In Mar 2021, PSH engaged a professional firm to cultivate demand across UK-based wealth managers and retail/adviser platforms, targeting individual investors (Source: 2021 Annual Report of PSH).


i Capital Newsletter Volume 34 Issue 18 (www.icapital.biz)

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-26 14:15 | Report Abuse

Maybe the 42% discount is becoz ppl dun trust the NAV?

Posted by Sslee > 2023-02-26 15:08 | Report Abuse

Insas Q2 end 31th Dec 2022 EPS 7.2 cents, NAPS is RM 3.35 and Share price RM 0.77 so how many % discount to NAPS?

Posted by Sslee > 2023-02-26 15:09 | Report Abuse

And dividend last year 2.5 cents

Posted by stockraider > 2023-02-26 15:10 | Report Abuse

Insas dividend this yr between to 2.5 to 3.5 sen mah!

Posted by i3lurker > 2023-02-26 15:11 | Report Abuse

I worry about sslee when he goes icap to promote INSAS

... after getting said dividend must Kiss the Ring

Posted by Sslee > 41 seconds ago | Report Abuse

And dividend last year 2.5 cents

Posted by stockraider > 2023-02-26 15:15 | Report Abuse

Sifu sslee promote insas bcos want to help icap to improve its performance loh!

Posted by i3lurker > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

I worry about sslee when he goes icap to promote INSAS

... after getting said dividend must Kiss the Ring

Posted by Sslee > 41 seconds ago | Report Abuse

And dividend last year 2.5 cents

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-26 15:19 | Report Abuse

SS Lee wan TTB's Icap buy Insas mah

Posted by stockraider > 2023-02-26 15:27 | Report Abuse

Win win mah!

Posted by speakup > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse

SS Lee wan TTB's Icap buy Insas mah

Posted by i3lurker > 2023-02-26 15:31 | Report Abuse

From the Kingdom of Heaven ...

Money is easy to find.
You come to where the men speak Italian,
and continue until they speak something else.
We go buy Maybank.
Goodbye.

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-26 17:08 | Report Abuse

JohnD0ugh, BOD of ICAP won't be blamed if they tried and failed, but they will be blamed for not even trying.

Posted by Sslee > 2023-02-26 17:34 | Report Abuse

I am just trying to be funny that if investment is based on NAV or NAPS then it will be very much easy.

Posted by Sslee > 2023-02-26 17:44 | Report Abuse

And what is icap director trying to say with purchase of 1,000 units from open market?

Director's Particular:
Name MR BOH BOON CHIANG
Details of Changes:
Currency -
Date of Change Type Number of Shares Price
20-Feb-2023 Acquired 1,000 2.075
Registered Name Public Nominees (Tempatan) Sdn. Bhd.
Nature of Interest Direct Interest
Consideration 2,075.62
Nature of Interest Direct Interest
Shares Ordinary Shares
Reason Acquisition of 1,000 ordinary shares on 20 February 2023 through open market.
Consideration -
Total no of securities after change
Direct (units) 1,000
Direct (%) 0.00
Indirect (units) 0
Indirect (%) 0.00
Total (units) 1,000
Total (%) 0.00
Date of Notice 20-Feb-2023

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-26 19:22 | Report Abuse

Icap director ust trying to remind everyone that Icap is undervalued

Posted by thetruthseeker > 2023-02-26 20:59 | Report Abuse

Feels like the director was "instructed" by someone to buy a mere 10 lots to see who is his counterparty, as counterparty information can be useful when comes to analyzing who are the sellers.

Posted by Just88 > 2023-02-26 21:37 | Report Abuse

Continuing down this path will only lead to one outcome - more and more shareholders will turn against the BOD.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-27 02:43 | Report Abuse

@thetruthseeker The company can just look up the share register changes every day to track who are the sellers and purchasers for the day directly, Getting the identity of the selling/buying brokers is useful only if you know who are the brokers for certain parties so that you know who are on the board at that moment and plan your orders. Parties who want to hide their identities can simply use a number of brokers and switch them randomly. If you have followed the Singapore penny stocks case, you will know how this is SOP.

Posted by thetruthseeker > 2023-02-27 13:43 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney What is your view on the director's small maiden purchase of ICAP?

Posted by thetruthseeker > 2023-02-27 13:47 | Report Abuse

Interestingly, one of ICAP's directors is the Chairman of the board of MSWG. I wonder if this director fulfilled his task of safeguarding minority shareholders' interests or just being a yes-man there.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-27 19:05 | Report Abuse

@the truthseeker, this bit about the Chairman of the board of MSWG clears up some questions in my mind. I have had dealings with MSWG in the past, so I better not make public comments. As to the director's recent share purchase, neither here nor there, too small to change him to wearing two hats instead of just one.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-27 19:33 | Report Abuse

When the previous chairman of the BOD resigned, the first announcement to Bursa on the 24/11/20 gave no reasons for doing so. In a subsequent amended announcement on the 1/12/20, for reasons, it was stated as "difference in opinion" However, in the next box, which is for "detailsof any disagreement that has with the BOD, it was filled as "No". Did he resign for something as trivial as not liking the color scheme for the office? No shareholder bothered to find out.

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-27 21:16 | Report Abuse

i wonder whether icap is the worst CEF (in terms of discount) in the world?

Posted by thetruthseeker > 2023-02-27 21:25 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney The resignation also coincides with the litigation against COL.

Posted by thetruthseeker > 2023-02-27 21:29 | Report Abuse

@speakup You can refer to here for a general view of CEF discount/premium situations around the world:

https://www.cefa.com/FundSelector/AdvancedSearch.fs

At a current discount of circa 41%, ICAP is indeed the CEF with the largest share price discount to its NAV.

Posted by speakup > 2023-02-27 21:47 | Report Abuse

Wow, Icap masuk Guinness World Record for the wrong reasons

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-02-27 22:23 | Report Abuse

@thetruthseeker, the ex-Chairman resigned before the AGM that adopted the annual report including the reimbursement of the dual listed fund expenses incurred years earlier. BTW, the annual accounts are not subject to shareholders vote, so only need to be passed by the BOD.