Posted by RainT > 2021-01-29 15:06 | Report Abuse

@employee

haha, you also in so many counters ?

but counters that i m in is under value & can capital appreciation one

Posted by Abang1975 > 2021-01-29 18:22 | Report Abuse

satu setengah tahun simpan....huhuhu...tarak untung!! company made profit also not reflected towards share price..

Posted by gongkia > 2021-01-29 18:40 | Report Abuse

untung tapi tak untung lebih banyak dari yang dulu.

in the long term, share price will reflect the performance.

Posted by Papayashot > 2021-01-30 18:09 | Report Abuse

Bao2lai , I don't undrstand what u meant by Par value? Now still got Par value meh? And, what u meant LPI par value is 9-8?

Posted by gongkia > 2021-01-31 14:22 | Report Abuse

dunno what 7 u say haha

nobody look at par value anymore.

Posted by KiasiPu > 2021-02-08 13:42 | Report Abuse

very cheap now..
sapu sapu....

Posted by Bao2lai > 2021-02-08 20:04 | Report Abuse

Takaful par value is 0.2

LPI par value is 9-8

Allianze par value is 4-3

" if " Takaful par value is 1.0 , The market price of Takaful would be approximately 21k per share..compared to both Lpi and Allianze , they were " only " 13~14k per share.

Investors might easily think that takaful share price will much more cheper than others same sector like lpi and Allianze but in actual the number by itself will tell us the truth

Posted by Bao2lai > 2021-02-08 20:40 | Report Abuse

To measure the value of investment based on many factors, PAR VALUE does not predict the company's future profit potential. I think it is an honor for people to ignore its existence, at least when they think it’s cheap, they will buy it naturally. In fact, as long as the knowledge of elementary school mathematics, par value has clearly told investors whether it is really cheap.

Posted by apple168 > 2021-02-09 12:56 | Report Abuse

We don’t know what is “Par value” that you r talking about. Sounds like a “par value” created by you. Perhaps can write an article on “par value” to enlighten us and send it up for Peers review, maybe can get a Nobel price in economics.

Posted by Bao2lai > 2021-02-09 16:57 | Report Abuse

Hi @apple168, it simple. All we need to do is
1. Connect internet , make sure our search tool able to online.
2. Recommend use google website, on the google screen we can enter invesdopedia and don forget to press enter at the keyboard.
3. In invesdopedia website , we can scearch the meanings of "PAR VALUE" .Of cause if using voice searcing method is faster than typing.. again dont forget to type PAR VALUE at keyboard and enter.

Im believe, the time consuming in writing " we dont know."... until last sentence of "price in economics" if exchange to search engines is far more efficient and benefit to ourselves.

Regards
Spoonfeed@.com

Posted by observatory > 2021-02-16 20:08 | Report Abuse

Instead of Par Value, it's better to look at shareholder's equity per share, which captures the company retained earnings over the years.

The share price to per share equity ratio, also known as Price To Book ratio, has a strong correlation with Return on Equity.

Takaful has a higher ROE than Allianz or LPI. But Takaful ROE has weakened in 2020 while the other two have sustained.

Posted by gongkia > 2021-02-16 21:39 | Report Abuse

allianz pe is low, but it is low all the while, tempting.
any explanation?

Posted by observatory > 2021-02-17 00:05 | Report Abuse

Allianz PE as reported by some apps is misleading. Alloanz has almost as many ICPS as its outstanding shares. So should divide its basic EPS by 2 to get its diluted EPS, or multiply the PE by 2.

Posted by Bao2lai > 2021-02-17 11:44 | Report Abuse

谢谢 @Observatory分享。

是的，比起Par value, Nav也是其中一项不可或缺的衡量工具。
Takaful每年retention ratio都不少于80%。
保守预计,它的RoRe不少于20%，算是可被接受范围之内。如果公司的retained earnings不能为股东创造价值，management expension ratio的18%~20%将被视为无效率和浪费资源。
所以，谢谢你提供的宝贵意见。

@Observation,有一个疑问想请教你， 那是关于Intco Medical Tech。
在下定论之前， " 它宽充产能在未来 "有可能" 带来 供需失衡 的潜在风险" 。。有一个项目我必须搞清楚，那就是Intco Medical的profit margin是多少？Hartalega大概在2009年转型至Nitrile手套，最强有力的武器将同行抛开九条街之远，它用的方式就是有效率的降低成本并且 慢慢吃进同行的市场。手套不是名牌产品，谁有成本优势就是未来的明星股。你认为呢？

Posted by apple168 > 2021-02-17 12:52 | Report Abuse

We agreed that Takaful business affected badly during this MCO.

Posted by apple168 > 2021-02-17 12:53 | Report Abuse

We believe Takaful is a good buy with the price below 4. Now, it is still overvalued

Posted by observatory > 2021-02-17 20:53 | Report Abuse

Sorry. Borrow this space to respond to a glove question.

@Bao2Lai. You can find my calculation on the operating profit of Intco vs Harta & Top Glove in my comment to Ben Tan’s blog. Timestamp 07/02/2021 2:58 PM.

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/bursainvestments/2021-02-06-story-h1540340424-Top_Glove_Hartalega_Supermax_The_US_Demand_for_Gloves_and_Homeland_Prod.jsp

In summary, for the first three quarters of 2020, the operating margin of Intco was 19%, 59% and 69%. Top Glove 12%, 26%, 46%. Harta 18%, 30%, 51%.

I’ve also worked out the Capex required for new capacity expansion. It takes Top Glove about USD25 for every 1,000 pieces of new capacity. Capex for Intco is only about USD17. See my calculation in another comment in the link below. Timestamp 16/02/2021 11:29 PM

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/bursainvestments/2021-02-16-story-h1541112319-Glove_Supply_and_the_Supply_Demand_Disequilibrium_Top_Glove_Supermax_Ha.jsp

The current blended ASP of USD70, if sustainable, means it takes only 4 months to breakeven for new production investment. That explains why Intco is rushing for a second listing in HK to fund its explosive growth. Its capacity by the end of 2019 was 19 billion pieces; end of 2020 36 billion; now already 45 billion. It has announced at least another 190 billion.

Posted by gongkia > 2021-02-17 21:28 | Report Abuse

i think 4 plus is reasonable with so good roe.

Posted by apple168 > 2021-02-17 21:50 | Report Abuse

辉瑞所谓90%有效率是临床试验。大家都懂得辉瑞实验人数不足，临床试验有否造假，只有当事人知道。有人根据辉瑞临床数据，认为它有效率只有29%。以目前的数据显示它的有效率是在29-90%。最终数据需要时间检验，毕竟这是新的技术疫苗—mRNA技术。要知道辉瑞公司的CEO自己都不敢打自家疫苗，可想而知，这新的技术疫苗—mRNA技术，还在研究当中。COVID-19不会因为有了疫苗，就这样结束，有了解药（anti-viral drug) 才是真正解决问题的根本！有新的技术疫苗，有效性29-90%（这么大的有效性差距），就一窝蜂去买复苏股，不就太冲动了吗？一切还言之过早！

Posted by skl_81 > 2021-02-23 20:09 | Report Abuse

Retained 2019 year higher revenue and profits.
Well done!

Posted by KiasiPu > 2021-02-24 09:22 | Report Abuse

chiong chiong chiong!!!!

Posted by Kadir > 2021-02-24 10:03 | Report Abuse

Good fr bimb

Posted by gemfinder > 2021-02-24 11:23 | Report Abuse

buy in 4.60

Posted by apple168 > 2021-02-24 14:19 | Report Abuse

Congrats Takaful shareholders!

Posted by gongkia > 2021-02-25 02:28 | Report Abuse

thank you @observatory for the allianz ICPS info, now only i got u.

Posted by Kadir > 2021-03-05 15:23 | Report Abuse

Next Qtr I believe better results expectd

Posted by Mustovoi > 2021-03-05 18:12 | Report Abuse

Rm 7 coming???

Posted by gongkia > 2021-03-05 22:00 | Report Abuse

actually from last year till now epf just net sold 1.51mil shares.

Posted by Kadir > 2021-03-08 10:55 | Report Abuse

See u at 5+

Posted by Mustovoi > 2021-03-08 11:54 | Report Abuse

Go takaful...

Posted by Mustovoi > 2021-03-08 11:58 | Report Abuse

Break 5.10 then rocket to moon

Posted by Kadir > 2021-03-08 12:37 | Report Abuse

Mustovoi...take it easy

Posted by Davidl > 2021-03-08 15:11 | Report Abuse

Last call to accumulate at price around 5!

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-08 15:42 | Report Abuse

Guys, take note that insiders ie senior management esp CEO Hassan Kamil has been selling aggressively since late Feb2021. See Bursa notifications! This is similar to AMMB where senior management also selling aggressive a few weeks before the big fine.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-08 15:51 | Report Abuse

Takaful Msia at 5.00 is priced at 2.75 book value. Usually banks and insurance companies' prices are around 1x book value. This is way too high. Life insurers book value is more whereas general insurers are less as general insurance businesses are rather matured compared to life which is still in high growth stage. Takaful Msia business has more general biz. Therefore its value should be lesser.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-08 15:52 | Report Abuse

This is only my 2sen thoughts since I worked in insurance industry for past 34 years...

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-08 16:02 | Report Abuse

CEO Hassan Kamil is a qualified Actuary. Obviously he knows what is overvalued or undervalued.

Posted by gongkia > 2021-03-08 18:10 | Report Abuse

that ceo owns 70 share last year, 70!
then all the few hundred k shares sold are from the LTIP scheme.
typical employee i would say.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-08 19:52 | Report Abuse

Personally I worked for AIA for many years before retirement, bought LTIP at around HKD20 in 2012 (AIA shares are public listed in Hong Kong). Now 9 years later, AIA HK share price is now around HKD100 ; 5 baggers! I keep as the company was growing year to year. Whereas not sure what's happening in Takaful Msia. If it is good, like AIA, the CEO will keep. If he (and his other senior management members) keep selling, something is telling...

Posted by Papayashot > 2021-03-08 20:50 | Report Abuse

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company...

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company...

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company...


The above shows that the CEO keep on selling shares many years ago, although Takaful Malaysia is in its superbull era in 2016? By the way, I just show some of them as they are many many more...

By the way, Takaful Malaysia focuses mainly on Family Takaful (~2 bil revenue), as compared to GI (~0.8 bil revenue).. Not the other way round @freedomfund

Posted by gongkia > 2021-03-08 23:03 | Report Abuse

takaful is one of the best return stock for the last 10yr in bursa (track record). ROE is much higher than peers.

a rm10k invested in takaful will return rm275k (2010-2020)

Posted by observatory > 2021-03-08 23:15 | Report Abuse

Yes, Takaful Malaysia management has a long record of disposing their shares granted, which does not send a good signal to shareholders.

@freedomfund, I believe Takaful Malaysia high PB ratio has to be compared against its high ROE at over 20% currently (used to be above 30% a few years ago). While Public Bank is priced at "only" PB 1.8X, its ROE is just above 10%. The ROE for banks has been declining for years given they need to hold more capital under Basel III.

Since you’ve been in the insurance industry for many years, can I seek your opinion on how the competitiveness and profitability of life insurers in Malaysia, in particular Allianz Malaysia which is also listed. How does it compare against AIA and others?

I read that AIA has done very well in recent years because mainland China clients sign up with AIA Hong Kong as a means to transfer wealth out of the mainland. The other stellar performer in HKEX is Ping An Insurance. Wonder if you have any view on them too?

Posted by Davidl > 2021-03-09 17:48 | Report Abuse

Time to accumulate!

Posted by gongkia > 2021-03-09 18:31 | Report Abuse

it's time to sit tight and enjoy the return.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-09 21:56 | Report Abuse

@ Papayashot, yes u r right, more biz in life than general. My error. From latest report, it seems that life revenue has stagnanted. STM also paid a new "dowry" to RHB Islamic Bank for the renewal on bancassurance arrangement. Not sure how this amount is accounted for. Such fees can run into hundreds of millions RM and it can stunt profit growth. e.g. ING (now merged with AIA) once paid to PBB something like RM300m for the ING-PBB bancassurance partnership. At one time, I used to run a bancassurance team on the insurer side. Can you imagine the work pressure from the regional bosses to regain back the hundreds of millions investment within 5 to 10 years?

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-09 22:32 | Report Abuse

@observatory, most of my working years was in training and sales/marketing. I am not a figures guy but I try to explain a bit here in simple terms.

Of course PB ratio also depends on ROE, top and bottom line growth rate, asset and management quality etc. STM should command a higher PB ratio but maybe not nearing 3x hence its management is constantly selling. The other way to measure is PE. For EPS of 43.75sen pa historical, RM5.00 trades at PE 11.4. Generally, for general insurers the PE is usually not high, maybe 8 to 10. (Other than LPI which has a very lucrative captive market in PBB loans fire insurance portfolio ie you take a PBB loan, you must take their fire insurance). For life insurers, 10 to 15. Assuming the STM life: general ratio is 5:2 (based on latest quarter result), the weighted average PE shall be :

5 x 13 (mid of 10 to 15) + 2 x 9 (mid of 8 to 10) / 7 = 11.8 which is very close to current traded PE. Hence, fully valued by PE valuation.

If I am in STM senior management and I can see that life sales has stagnanted, then the PE for life side should be lower, say 10 only. Then current price is over-valued, hence I will sell.

Other insurers?
Allianz Life (ex-MBA) : high growth in life portfolio. Once life profit outgrows general, valuation will grows exponentially. But as @observatory said, beware of ICPS shares when counting PE. Accounting wise, they don't count ICPS but valuation wise, we need to count, just by assuming all ICPS are converted to normal shares. In reality, not many will convert as they get 20% more dividends and there is no expiry dates ie perpetual. But still, valuation wise, need to count them in. So do not let the current low PE shown mislead us.

Manulife : life side, poor management quality and weak sales channels esp agency force. Agency force is aging (full of uncles and aunties). Sales hovering around 40-60m in new business premiums for many years. Hence, share price hovering around RM2++, not growing for decades.

Just my 2 cents. Hope, read by younger investors. My little contribution to them...

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-09 22:50 | Report Abuse

@observatory, sorry forgot to mention AIA and Ping An in HK.

AIA share price co-relates closely with their VONB - Value of New Business (the present value of all the future premiums payable by customers). VONB increases a lot during the earlier listing years due to real growth and tweaking (like fine tuning our car engines for peak performance) various variables that add up to VONB. Once tweaking is close to perfection (there is only that much that you can tweak your car engine), real growth in sales will be the main focus. AIA has good branding, added with high visibility being a component of HSI, and top talents in management driving all 15 or 16 countries, make it a high growth player. The regional management's job is to ensure annual top and bottom line grows say, min 15%pa. And the drive is very very focus. Of course, China now is a huge contributor among them with its gigantic middle income group.

Ping An in China is also considered a well managed life insurer (this is relative, better quality compared to say, China Life - also listed in HKSE). Hence it carry good valuation in HK. The current Group CEO of AIA, Lee Yuan Siong was formerly from Ping An.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-03-09 22:52 | Report Abuse

Sorry I was a bit long winded above. For those who invest based on gut feelings, no need to read la...

Posted by gongkia > 2021-03-10 01:03 | Report Abuse

the penetration rate of takaful here is low ~12%, there is room to grow.

Posted by Sanofi > 2021-03-10 01:13 | Report Abuse

I am working in the bank and the gov is pushing very hard in Islamic financing since last quarter, almost 10 out of 8 applications are under Islamic, and takaful is compulsory to bundle during loan acceptance. This is the reason why I am buying into this company! :)