Hahahaha....
You still dun understand what is dilution. 😀😀😀

Very funny lor,
You calculate fake DY by 40/550=7.27%, I calculate 100/550=18%,
What is the difference? 😀😀😀

You are the one who calculate the fake DY that way lor.
Total Dividend 40 sen, price 550 sen, fake DY = 40/550 = 7.27%.

Hahahaha......

RHB could actually give out 100 sen Dividend to make you happy.
No problem at all, just make all the 100 sen applicable for DRIP at 10% discount.
Base on 85% take up rate, RHB need to pay out 15 sen Cash only, the rest are all extra new shares.
Then the market calculate the fake DY to be = 100/550 = 18%.

prudentinvestor
You don't understand what is dilution.

How do you know RHB price will be the same one year later?
Don't you know that when the o/s shares quantity grow larger, it is harder for EPS and DPS to grow?

1) You received bonus units, you sell it and received Cash.
2) You received DRIP units, you sell it and received Cash.
The above two cases are the same, both will cause your holding get diluted.

prudentinvestor,
Last month DBS gave 1:10 bonus,
Let say RHBBANK will do the same, and you have 100,000 units and the price is 5.48 on the eve of Bonus Ex-date.
So the Ex-dated price = 5.48/1.1=4.98, and you sell 10,000 units at 4.98, you received the sale proceeds 49,800 Cash.
So according to your simple mind, the DY = 49800 / 100,000 / 5.48 = 9.1% ????

Value Investor Coo1eo,
I have tried my best to explain in details.
If you still want to simply calculate DY = (0.25+0.15)/share price, up to you.

According to RHB yesterday announcement, 2 main points:
1) RHB Bank will be issuing 73,141,449 DRP Shares.
2) 87,812,350 DRP shares would have been issued had all the entitled shareholders of RHB Bank elected to reinvest the Electable Portion into DRP Shares.

Meaning RHB total outstanding shares before DRIP = 87,812,350 * 4.88 / 0.10 = 4,285,242,680.

Let say Mr. A bought 428,524 shares (0.01% ownership) on the eve of Dividend Ex-date at price 5.72.
He opted for DRIP, and entitle to 8,781 DRIP shares,
Now he would have 428,524 +8,781 = 437,305 after the DRIP.

And RHB total outstanding shares after DRIP = 4,285,242,680 + 73,141,449 = 4,358,384,129.
To maintain 0.01% ownership, Mr.A can sell 437,305 - 435,838 = 1,467 shares.

Let say he sell it at 5.48, he will receive Cash 1,467 * 5.48 = 8,039.
He also received Cash Dividend = 428,524 * 0.25 - 8,781 * 4.88 = 64,280.
So the total Cash he received = 8,039 + 64,280 = 72,319.

Then 72,319 / 428,524 = 16.88 sen per Share.
To include the first interim dividend of 15 sen Cash,

The Dividend Yield of RHB = (0.1688 + 0.1500) / 5.72 = 5.57%.

Of course, if you want to buy now for future dividend payments,
The DY would be a bit higher at = (0.1688 + 0.1500) / 5.48 = 5.82%.

Look at the latest Cost to Income Ratio (CIR) of the 6 blue chip banks.
1) AMBANK = 43.8%
2) CIMB = 46.9%
3) HLBANK = 39.7%
4) MAYBANK = 47.8%
5) PBBANK = 33.7%
6) RHBBANK = 47.5%

PBBANK is really no joke, it is so well managed, its CIR is even lower than DBS's 37.0%,
No wonder it is trading at the highest Price / Book ratio among the 6 banks.

HLBANK is also not bad, but the mother company HLFG is so cheap due to Conglomerate Discount, so I prefer HLFG over HLBANK / PBBANK.

But MAYBANK is the "dragon head" among the local banks, and with high Dividend Yield.
So must invest in MAYBANK too.

Once it come out from the trap, it will fly. 😀😀

Maybank for high DY.
HLFG for low PE.

Look at ICAP portfolio on 29.02.2024:
1) 5099 ~ 4.75%,
2) 5099LA ~ 1.46%,
3) 5099WA ~ 0.27%,
Total weight ~ 6.48%.

Aiya, why TTB like 5099?
If I were him, I will dispose 5099 and 5099WA, then swap to 5099LA.

Anyway, I have already sold all my 5099LA.

Unless previously converted or redeemed (subject to the terms and conditions of the RCUIDS), AAGB shall redeem the RCUIDS in accordance with the redemption schedule as outlined in Appendix I of the abridged prospectus dated 2 December 2021 in relation to the Rights Issue ("Abridged Prospectus") ("Redemption Schedule").

Please take note of the above statement.

The Appendix I (Page 61)
Anniversary from Issue Date % of issued size redeemed*
1st -
2nd -
3rd -
4th 25%
5th 25%
6th 25%
7th 25%

If we do not convert, the company will redeem at 75 sen on Dec 2025, 2026, 2027 and 2028.

prudentinvestor
You must understand one thing, whenever there is DRIP, the total out-standing shares of the company will increase.
Therefore harder for the company EPS, DPS and price to move up.
Do not just look at the numbers of share you own, but the ownership in term of percentage is more important.

If no reason for them to sell 5099LA, then we buy.

Pinky,
Say if you are entitled to 12345 DRIP shares, you can ask for 12300 DRIP shares only, the balance will be paid to you in Cash

Pinky,

It is true that the dividend that we are receiving is paid out of the equity value.
However, Cash Dividend is a strong evidence that the company have the ability to pay out.

jeffchan1901,

Frankly speaking, I don't like DRIP.
The company total out-standing shares will increase,
Harder for the EPS, DPS and share price to move up.

I bought Maybank because they have stop DRIP,
If Maybank continue DRIP again in future,
I hope other investors like it, then that is the time I will sell.

Kicapmanis,

Look at past records, RHB DRIP take-up rate were around 85%,
Logically, the DY = (0.15+0.15+0.10*(15%) ) / 5.50 = 5.72%.

For Maybank, there were no DRIP for the last 3 dividends,
I hope no more DRIP in future.
For FY2023, DY =0.60 / 9.79 = 6.13%.
So I would say Maybank's DY is higher than RHB.

Last time I did not invest in Maybank, but now I do invest some.

prudentinvestor,

Let say RHB total out-standing shares = 195200 units.
It has only 2 shareholders, Mr. A and Mr. B,
Each of them holding 97600 shares, or equivalent to 50% ownership.

Last Interim Dividend of 15 sen plus this round of 25 sen Second Interim Dividend.
Mr. A opt to take up DRIP, so he get 14640+14640=29280 Cash and now holding 99600 shares.
Mr. B opt to take Cash, and collected 14640+24400=39040 Cash and now holding 97600 shares.

Mr. A's ownership in term of percentage = 99600 / (99600+97600) = 50.5%
Mr. B's ownership in term of percentage = 97600 / (99600+97600) = 49.5%

Mr. B thought that his investment in RHB give him DY of 39040/5.50/97600=7.27%?
But in actual, part of the Cash that he received is actually from selling 0.5% ownership.

I spend time to explain to you, if you still can not understand, I give up.

Sslee,

May be the case of NESTLE would help to clear the doubt.
Book value / share = RM2.88, but the market price is RM127.20 per share.

https://brandirectory.com/rankings/malaysia/table
According to the above table, AirAsia Brand Value is $1,343m.

I do not know whether CapA will go up or down.
But I am pretty sure it is very unlikely that CapA-LA will become default,
So I rush in to buy CapA-LA at 0.78.
As long as it is not going to be default, then my return will be 6.87% p.a.

stkoay,

It is not accurate to say RHB's DY is higher than MAYBANK's.
MAYBANK's DY = 0.60/9.78 = 6.13%.

For RHB,
Out of the 40 sen dividend, 10 sen is DRIP,
Look at past record, RHB DRIP take-up rate was around 85%,
Therefore RHB's DY = (0.3+0.015) / 5.51 = 5.72%.

60 sen.
The independent advisor said too cheap, ask shareholders not to accept/sell.

I try to find out whether I can accept the general offer via BursaAnywhere,
But found out that I can't do it via the app.
Is it the only way I can do it is by fill in the hard copy form and mail back to the Registrar?
Can anyone please help to double confirm this?

Turn out to be BKAWAN to pay Cash Dividend as it sold plantation asset in Kalimantan to KLK.

Dividend with DRIP is useless, nothing good at all.
Just like a mini scale of bonus issue, at the end no Cash flow out from the fund, total size or NAV remain the the same.
Anyway most investors like it, I don't know like it for what.

snowball2000，
You can go to yahoo finance and search for it.

://finance.yahoo.com/quote/601838.SS/key-statistics?p=601838.SS

My opinion,
Logically, holding company discount should only be applicable to those companies that owning non-controlling stake, which have no say in business operation, example INSAS holding INARI, ICAP holding a basket of companies.

But HLFG have full control of HLBANK and HLCAP, so to me, holding company discount is not applicable.

HLFG own 1340m HLBANK shares
HLFG total out-standing shares = 1134m
Therefore, for every single share of HLFG that we own, it indirectly own 1.1817 share HLBANK.

For the last 4 quarters:
HLBANK EPS=RM1.8873
HLFG EPS = RM2.514

HLFG EPS = 1.1817 * HLBANK EPS + other business EPS,
other business EPS = 2.514 -1.1817 * 1.8873 = 0.2838,

(2.514 - 0.2838) / 2.514 = 88.7%,
Meaning 88.7% of HLFG profit is from HLBANK.

Now, look at their Net Asset per share at 30th Sep 2023,
HLBANK Net Asset per share = RM16.68,
HLFG Net Asset per share = RM24.25,

Same way of calculation,
HLFG other business Net Asset per share = 24.25 - 1.1817 * 16.68 = RM4.54
Meaning the ROE for HLFG other business = 0.2838 / 4.54 = 6.25%, Not Bad.

Now the question is why HLFG is trading at so much cheaper compare to HLBANK?
Because there is a Conglomerate Discount or in Malaysia we call it holding company discount.
But logically it should not be applicable to HLBANK / HLFG because 88.7% of HLFG profit come from HLBANK.

What you people think of it?

Refer to quarterly report @ 31.08.2023, which was announced yesterday.

The investment portfolio / NAV = 72.68%, the rest was Cash, I think the weight was OK.

There were 27 counters in the investment portfolio.
The top 4 counters add up already = 46.19%, I think this was no good, too heavy weight on a few counters.
There were 15 counters which the weight were less than 1% of NAV, and add up total = 6.11% only.
If I were the fund manager, I would just dispose off all these chicken feeds counters.

I really do not like the existing investment portfolio, and the discount is getting smaller to around 23%.
Buy ICAP now for what purpose?

ICAP NAV grew at 7.82% p.a. since inception.

But he said "If the NAV doubles in 5 years, your dividend payment and dividend yield doubles in 5 years."

To double in 5 years, you need 14.87%,
Almost double of the historical 7.82%.

Let say there are Mr.A and Mr.B, each own 1.40m units ICAP or in term of ownership percentage it is 1.0%.

1) After ICAP bought back 10% or 14m units at market price 2.68, spent about 37.52m, total outstanding units become 126m.

Mr.A decide to maintain 1.0% ownership, then he need to sell 0.14m units, so that he will now own 1.26m units, and the sale proceeds = 2.68*0.14m = 375.2K, it is just like a cash dividend for him.

Mr.B does not want to sell, he keep holding 1.40m units, and ownership will increase to 1.1111%. It is just like he receive cash dividend and use the money to buy more units.

Distributing the treasury units is just a mini scale of bonus issue, meaningless and it is creating odd lot / troublesome for all the small unit holders. For good company like BKAWAN, they just burn all the 44m treasury shares in June 2020.

2) If ICAP pay cash dividend instead of SBB, spent the same 37.52m, or DPS=37.52m/140m = 0.268.

Mr.A decide to maintain 1.0% ownership, he just take and keep the cash dividend = 1.4m*0.268 =375.2K.

Mr.B want to have higher ownership in term of ownership = 1.1111%, then he need to use the cash dividend 375.2K and buy extra 155556 units from open market. The ex-Dividend price should be = 2.68 - 0.268 = 2.412, so the purchase cost = 155556*2.412 = 375.2K, exactly equal to the cash dividend amount that Mr.B received.


My conclusion, SBB and Cash Dividend, they are 99% the same.

But practically SBB is better than Cash Dividend in reducing the Price/NAV gap.
Because other than Mr.A and Mr.B, there are also many passive Mr.C, they do nothing when SBB, and also do nothing when receive cash dividend.

Share Buy Back is a combination of the followings:
1) Give you Cash Dividend (No Drip)
2) Company to decide for you, when and at what price to buy additional ownership.

Too bad, no fund manager will like share buy back or cash dividend.
Because Total NAV will shrink.

TTB was already very kind to pay out 9.5 sen and 20 sen dividend.

My suggestion to TTB:
1) Go for right issue 1:1 at price 1.50
2) Use all the right issue money for Share Buy Back

Of course I don't know whether BURSA will approve or not such purpose of right issue. 😀😀

Share Buy Back and Cash Dividend (No DRIP) , will result in Total NAV shrinking, and therefore less annual fees.
No fund manager will like it,

For past 18 years, ICAP paid out 9.5 sen (13.3m）and 20 sen (28.0m) cash dividend.
The effect is not only on that year, buy every years after that,
Every year the fund manager will get less = (13.3m + 28.0m) * 1.5% = 620K.

stockraider

So, INSAS is also kind of Closed End Fund. 😀😀

Check at Yahoo Finance, INSAS Adjusted Close on 19.10.2005 = 0.2123,
Current Price = 0.88,
Cumulative Return = 0.88/0.2123-1= 315%,
Beat ICAP in both NAV and Price Performance for the last 18 years.

The following blue chips are also kind of Closed End Fund, with even higher discount compare to ICAP:

1) BKAWAN, owning:
1a) KLK
1b) A small oil palm estate in Indonesia
1c) Other chemical businesses
Performed very much better than ICAP for the last 18 years.

2) GENTING owning:
2a) Genting Singapore
2b) Genting Malaysia
2c) Genting Plantation
2d) Landmark
2e) Power Plant, Oil and Gas, and etc
Performed very much worse than ICAP for the last 18 years.

3) HLFG, owning:
3a) HLBANK
3b) Insurance business
3c) Other small businesses
Performed very much better than ICAP for the last 18 years.

Why not we have a look at the above 3 blue chips?

Let say:
1) 10 sen dividend, and with 10% discount DRIP.
2) If I have 10000 unit, I get 1000,
3) Worth it for me to opt for DRIP because the stamp duty is only RM10
4) And DRIP is simple task now, can just do it by Bursa Anywhere app.

Refer to ICAP annual report, there are total 6 million units from the group who own 10000 or below.
Assuming only them will opt for cash, ICAP will pay out 600K instead of 14 million cash.
In fact I believe some of those who own a few thousand units will also opt for DRIP, still gain more than the stamp duty.

I believe the Innovative dividend policy will not help in closing the Price / NAV gap.

The big discount has been there for many years, unit holders will be very reluctant to buy more when the discount is around 20%, worry that the discount could bounce back to 30-40%.

Only the following actions will reduce the discount:
1) Share buy back whenever the discount > 20%.
2) TTB himself buys whenever the discount > 20%.
3) ICAP's fans buy whenever the discount > 20%, for this, if ICAP pay real dividend without DRIP, it will help.

A dividend with 10% discount DRIP is not a real dividend,
but rather a mini scale bonus issue, an useless exercise and wasting admin work cost.

Those who:
1) want to have extra units, will go for DRIP.
2) want to have cash, will also go for DRIP, and then sell the extra units in the open market.

Only those who own very small quantity of units will opt for cash because DRIP option need stamp duty of RM10 (if not mistaken).

Innovative Dividend Policy,
The unit holders would have additional cash money to buy more units,
And certainly would reduce the NAV / Price gap.

But by doing so, a certain amount of cash would flow out from the fund,
The total NAV of the fund will reduce, and the annual fees would reduce too.
I gave a thumb up to TTB, and I thought of buy some ICAP.

However, when I read that the DRIP would be applicable, and the discount could be as high as 10%,
As there is an attractive discount, most people would go for DRIP,
Only very little cash flow out from the fund.
Then, this is not really a real Dividend, but more like a mini scale of Bonus Issue.

How could this DRIP reduce the NAV / Price gap?

To compare ICAP and EPF, I make a spreadsheet.
1) Invest 36000 on 1st Jan every year from 2006 to 2023, total 18 years.
2) The Dividend received from ICAP would be reinvested on the next 1st Jan.

As of today,
1) For ICAP, if I sell at NAV of 3.57, the CAGR=6.85%.
2) For ICAP, if I sell at Market Price of 2.59, the CAGR=3.67%
3) For EPF, the CAGR=5.88%.

https://klse.i3investor.com/web/headline/blog

Is AEON the anchor tenant?
If so, I believe it enjoys steep discount all these years.
The space they occupied all these years could now be rented out with higher rent.
However, other small tenants may ask for lower rent due to the departure of AEON.
In business, it is all about negotiation / bargaining.

If Maybank were to take over RHB, not likely to have so much cash to pay for it, most probably pay by issueing new Maybank shares to RHB shareholders, so take over = merger in this case.

Total Assets=41128m, or per share=RM7.47
Total Liabilities= 19,241m, or per share=RM3.49
Non-controlling interests=146m
Net Assets=41128-19241-146=21741m, or per share=RM3.95.

Share Price=RM1.11,
Total Assets / Price = 7.47/1.11=6.73 times

Comparison to buying a house with 85% loan, =100/15 =6.67 times.

unicornbird

Investment Assets:
Sep 2022: 961B
Dec 2022: 1010B
Mar 2023: 1040B

Currently 63% of Investment Assets is in Malaysia,
PMX said to EPF, please consider to increase it to 70%,
and now EPF said to allocate >70% of its new investment annual allocation to local market.

unicornbird,

More than 60% of Maybank shares are owned by PNB/Amanah Saham and EPF.
These funds get exemption, no need to report the NAV / unit, undervalued price is not a concern.
You see the size of these funds are growing due to new money keep coming in.
Meaning they buy more than sell, low price definitely an advantage.

For me, I buy Maybank for the following reasons:
1) As an high interest rate FD.
2) As an emergency fund, can sell it very fast as the volume is big.
3) Volatility is much lower than other index counters, would not incur heavy loss if Sell in urgent.