Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-01-04 08:00 | Report Abuse

Snake like to spin lies. This article is total waste of time and useless. Otb is here, he wont need anyone to describe his method.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-01-04 08:02 | Report Abuse

Why do we need to categories what person belobg to which type or what group? Icon mentality totally toxic by our bn govt. I can be ta investor or fundamental, or both. Or neither both.

Posted by chonghai > 2016-01-04 08:05 | Report Abuse

Value traders is not suitable for investors with large sum to invest.
If the amount to be invested is hundreds of millions, dashing in and out of the market would be a problem.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 08:08 | Report Abuse

chonghai please read Part 1 again. Value Traders can have investment horizon as long as few years. They are not the day traders that we know

They are differentiated from Value Investors by their lack of interest to moat, not so much by the shuffling of portfolio

By that definition, Uncle Koon is a Value Trader

His portfolio also quite huge

Posted by soros228 > 2016-01-04 08:18 | Report Abuse

Well written. Salute.

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:20 | Report Abuse

Very well written...salute sifu icon8888

Posted by bearbear11 > 2016-01-04 08:21 | Report Abuse

Very good article by icon8888.
I prefer to be value trader bcz it is unlikely to find very strong moat company in malaysia for very long term period like cocacola.

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:21 | Report Abuse

Sifu icon maybe can consider to write about: Crash of the Titan - poor paperplane

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-01-04 08:33 | Report Abuse

YAYA, pls do some marketing for me. I may consider charging RM100 per person in future for my stock picking courses, hehe.

Posted by 77huat77 > 2016-01-04 08:33 | Report Abuse

Icon8888 extraordinary !!!!!

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:34 | Report Abuse

Hahaha...lousy FUN Manager

Posted by soros228 > 2016-01-04 08:34 | Report Abuse

99.99999% people have read this article will praise the writer.
Only that fellow will bark.
Aum Nama Shivayae.
Ignore him.

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:35 | Report Abuse

Only those useless FUN Manager will keep complaining others

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:36 | Report Abuse

Calvintaneng also better than this paperplane

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:38 | Report Abuse

Rm700 profit but shout like earning 700 million

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:40 | Report Abuse

And a Fund manager dont know what is BA?? Really a joke of the century...i can laugh with this joke for next 10 years

Posted by soros228 > 2016-01-04 08:43 | Report Abuse

Hahaha. Joke of the year.

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:45 | Report Abuse

My grandson also can understand what is BA...I suspect this paperplane maybe just a Rojak seller beside my Char Kuih Tiow stall.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-01-04 08:48 | Report Abuse

pls, Teach me about BA, I need your help please

Posted by koonbee9 > 2016-01-04 08:50 | Report Abuse

Hahahaha...refer to icon article...if you still dont understand mean you really have problem

Posted by NOBY > 2016-01-04 08:59 | Report Abuse

Icon8888 , great article. The blog below did a similar study on value and momentum and concluded the same thing that starting from Value first then sorting the value ideas by momentum yielded the best results. However, one thing we always forget is that these studies do not take into account the transaction costs involved in adopting a momentum strategy which requires more rebalancing. In the short run, these may not matter, but in the long term (like 10-20 years), the returns could be greatly reduced...

http://blog.alphaarchitect.com/2015/03/26/the-best-way-to-combine-value-and-momentum-investing-strategies/

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 10:02 | Report Abuse

thank you the article

Posted by JT Yeo > 2016-01-04 10:27 | Report Abuse

I think investing there are many shades of grey, more than 50 shades. Value traders and investors are just a rough classification but still a useful one. i.e. those that buy moat and those that doesnt etc so you can differentiate it.

But from my understanding, i can be wrong. OTB strategies never really put any mention on intrinsic value. He talks about many ways to skin a cat, as long it is a good cat. He doesnt care about value & price, as long there's a ride, ride we will. If one doesnt look at IV, there's no more 'value' in the strategy.

And thats another conflicting thing. If someone is successful riding the wave here and there, why would he be sitting there and do nothing like what most value investors do?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 10:57 | Report Abuse

OTB very particular about value

He won't touch stocks without properly justifying them from IV point of view

I am his subscriber. Every few days he will bombard me with his list of stocks, with Target Price attached

Posted by i4investor > 2016-01-04 11:00 | Report Abuse

black or white cat which know how to catch rat is best
same apply
trader or investor...who can make profit is count...

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 11:01 | Report Abuse

yes... that is why I never take side... my wisdom is too limited to endorse and condemn

better stay neutral

Posted by sharktank > 2016-01-04 11:10 | Report Abuse

wah so long article, sum it up in one sentence. `Price go up buy, price go down sell.'

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2016-01-04 11:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by geary > 2016-01-04 11:22 | Report Abuse

There is always somethings to worry about, when u are investing. U never know 'mr market' might drop 50% next black Monday, especially October or year end. So watch your temperament before u really want to invest.

Posted by JT Yeo > 2016-01-04 11:26 | Report Abuse

ok thats good. A list of stocks, that would take me a year just to come up with their IV not few days.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 11:30 | Report Abuse

right

Ooi Teik Bee
Icon8888, are I right ?
Thank you.
Ooi

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 11:33 | Report Abuse

JTYeo, there is no contradiction between you and OTB

I think you are a Value Investor

OTB is a Value Trader

This is the point I have repeatedly tried to deliver in my two articles

You are a Chef of fine dining, OTB flips Ramli burgers. Nobody is right or wrong.. as long as the customers (your own wallet) is happy ....

JT Yeo ok thats good. A list of stocks, that would take me a year just to come up with their IV not few days.

Posted by JT Yeo > 2016-01-04 11:36 | Report Abuse

lol i dont do fine dining, i would even go for stock like Mercury.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 11:40 | Report Abuse

I spotted Mercury also, before you told me in one of our earlier discussions

I have a habit of regularly checking Bursa's circular to shareholders section. That is where the information about Major transactions are housed (that was how I discovered Geshen at 56 sen).

I studied it and didn't dislike it. But didn't buy any either as I was a bit lethargic of punting exotic stocks during that period (it was during the recent bear market)

I think you can make money from this stock, best wishes from me

Posted by Stockwatch > 2016-01-04 11:48 | Report Abuse

Good write up Icon8888.
Yeah I am equally mystified with OTB's performance.No I am not a subscriber to OTB but results show.

I guess you need TA to meander through the noise as the stock needs to propel on a higher plane ie. higher relative strength or using momentum oscillators when the stock is about to take off. This is where his stock screening comes into the picture.

What is important and critical is cash in your pockets ie. sell on strength , again when the relative strength loses momentum.
For any given year when you get cash at 10% at ROI within 2 or 3 months you are a full fledged trader and you might hate to admit it.:):):)
Five years is a very , very long time in the Malaysian context to see true value emerges.

Even a moat like TNB has to contend with the Inland Revenue Department with over some RM1 billion in back dated taxes..so moats in Malaysia are fast disappearing...let alone a well known China based stock since its listing in Malaysia 6 years ago and with huge a cash cow(an illusive moat?) have not declared a dividend in the latest AGM...so where is the price discovery?

It is people like OTB who puts money in your pockets that makes the difference...call it what you want...he sees value by noticing the relative strength and momentum of the stock.No I am not a promoter...I follow the golden rule which most unit trusts employ ie. performance today is no guarantee it will perform in the future.:)
Hope to see more write ups from you.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 11:55 | Report Abuse

stock watch, I am a Value Trader, I buy and sell based on PER

I don't think I will ever one day be buying and selling based on RSI and other Technicals.

Those tactics are for witty people

I am too thick and too slow for that. I think PER is just fine for me...

anyway, happy that you find the article useful

thanks

Posted by sharktank > 2016-01-04 12:07 | Report Abuse

First Day see RED. Good or bad FA Trader?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 12:13 | Report Abuse

too slow too thick and too old to even understand your question...

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2016-01-04 12:14 | Report Abuse

icon8888, u earn my respect most. same with cold eye. u are behave like him.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 12:17 | Report Abuse

thanks Ricky Kiat, whatever that you mean... ha ha

Posted by Julietzhu > 2016-01-04 12:19 | Report Abuse

Really enriched my knowledge in stocks. A big thank to u. Are u really an old old man?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-01-04 12:23 | Report Abuse

I am second oldest in this forum. Uncke Koon number 1

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2016-01-04 12:27 | Report Abuse

maybe u two are relative.... just kidding. (^o^)

Posted by Newbhere > 2016-01-04 12:40 | Report Abuse

In my opinion... OTB is a hybrid of value trader and value investor. He goes for uptrending stocks that have good valuations and have more potential upside. His method is quite effective as those counters (most of them), are also being monitored and pushed by the insiders and funds. He doesn't need to wait for a long time to make a landslide or tsunami sort of killing in the stockmarket (e.g targeting for the lowest price). He can just ride the wave and make whatever % there is (e.g min 20% to multiple baggers) at any point of the stock market cycle.

Posted by JT Yeo > 2016-01-04 12:55 | Report Abuse

Hey Icon yea ure right. Mercury is an arbitrage opportunities which can still never materialized. Previously full of cash (low ROE) as you are aware, used it to bought a company venture into construction (higher ROE), and profit guarantee for 3 years. So we will see.

Posted by JN88 > 2016-01-04 13:04 | Report Abuse

OTB methods is a very tired, consumed energy and low risk method which involved combination of many methods....but highest return.... He is so love and enjoy his work... With his method, unless your are very hardworking, if not impossible to get the highest performance...

Posted by sharktank > 2016-01-04 13:49 | Report Abuse

I guess all of them are Trend followers.( long time never heard peoples use this term as it is not `fashionable' ) : )

Posted by Intelligent Investor > 2016-01-04 15:07 | Report Abuse

Hi Mr. Ooi,

If you don't mind, may I take a look on your template .

I would like to see what will make you think a company in good fundamental.

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > Jan 4, 2016 11:17 AM | Report Abuse

I have my own template of FA report. I also know what is margin of safety, target price base on Intrinsic value of the stock, Potential gain, EV/EBIT and others important ratio.
I copy the best from all the best sifu on FA. I believe I am equally good in FA.
I do not simply buy stock base on TA only. I use TA comes first and FA comes second strategy. All my recommended stocks are guarantee to have very good FA.
Icon8888, are I right ?
Thank you.
Ooi

Posted by John Lim > 2016-01-04 15:23 | Report Abuse

research has shown that combining value with momentum will improve returns

Posted by contemplator > 2016-01-04 17:28 | Report Abuse

I personally think that no matter what methods you use, earning profit is of paramount importance (in decent way).

The difficulty for an investor is to CONSISTENTLY achieve APPLICABLE ANNUALIZED capital return (I believe using TA investors will be harder to achieve above target). Good profit for 3-4 years doesn't really prove anything. Consistent results for 10 years and above only can be considered as an capable investor (his/her wealth should have been significantly amplified during the 10 years).
I do not condemn Mr Ooi or praise Mr KC Chong, it is just my humble opinion.


I would recommend a book by Seth Klarman: Margin of Safety. His investing methods revealed in the book is quite orthodox to Warren Buffett but truly belong to value investing.

Investment is knowledge pay best interest
Investment is most intelligent when it is most business like. Benjamin Graham