Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 18:18 | Report Abuse

growth stocks vs value stocks.
growth stocks tend to go higher and higher, breaking new high all the time.
value stocks tend to go lower and lower and discounts getting wider and wider.....hahahahaha



anyway I have say all I want to say on this topic here...especially in the comments section.



http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/600098587.jsp

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 18:21 | Report Abuse

classical value stock.....WTK go buy la.

NTA > $ 3
price $1......

hahahaha

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 18:29 | Report Abuse

stockman...that's a nice discovery...anymore like WTK u can offer?
I am luking for some diversification on such similar stocks..

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 18:34 | Report Abuse

go ahead......hahahaha

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 18:42 | Report Abuse

I did not calculate properly...the price is almost at the level of its cash right? Curious to know its NCAV per share..

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 18:46 | Report Abuse

net cash not much...it also has borrowings. which matches the cash figure.

most of the NTA is in plantation lands.

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 18:50 | Report Abuse

Look at its NCAV...its like 0.83 per share if im not mistaken
You can dispose the Fixed Assets like Land to pay up the borrowings..

As I see it... its a good long term investment candidate.

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 18:53 | Report Abuse

If one knows the land acreage....I can easily calculate for you the minimum cash / earnings yield per acre for you ( I have quite an experience in palm plantations). Then u can easily calculate...revert to mean Earnings in future...

When the CPO price goes up....BANG!

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 18:55 | Report Abuse

Now Calvin would have started drooling already....

Posted by odie88 > 2016-06-19 18:57 | Report Abuse

stockmanmy, buying stocks with prices a lot lesser than NTA is not all value investing is about. NTA is not equal to intrinsic value.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 19:09 | Report Abuse

odie

that is classical value investing....
that only thing that is tangible is what is already in hand.

any thing else is growth investing/

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 19:10 | Report Abuse

"RM 285.5 million was invested in Biological assets for 11,800 hec land and costs RM 24,500 per hectare"

OMG.... this is really getting interesting....

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 19:13 | Report Abuse

stockman....your 'gut bacteria' may start changing soon...
you know they found quite a bit of link on your gut microbes and mental performance...;)

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 19:16 | Report Abuse

Probability....

You will not benefit from the plantations.

That is not how this company works.


hahahahaha

They will take it private at $ 1 before you can have a hand in it.


like Karabunai and Petaling Tin.

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 19:23 | Report Abuse

alamak...if like that how to argue? then any growth stock also can fall into same scenario mah....privatization

then I can only comment on any stock if I know the director or insiders loh...

but..still this WTK at this price level is kinda sexy.
Need to investigate deeper..

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 19:24 | Report Abuse

its in their genes.

Posted by probability > 2016-06-19 19:25 | Report Abuse

aiyo...stock investing / business studies...now became genetic study already....:(

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 19:35 | Report Abuse

one thing you can do.....go research what is the latest accounting policy on biological assets.

they keep changing so often I lost track already.

they say they have $ 500 million in biological assets and still losing money according to the accounts.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-06-19 19:38 | Report Abuse

Kc, how u calculate compounded annual return ah??

Posted by odie88 > 2016-06-19 19:38 | Report Abuse

stockmanmy, not entirely true since growth is one of the aspect in value investing. I could conclude your "growth investing" part of value investing too. I am pretty sure there's a price you would pay a company nor matter how good the company prospect is. By paying not more than what you value is value investing.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 19:49 | Report Abuse

Growth.....that is all based on projections and opinions.

it changes at the drop of a hat. That is what makes it exciting.

I can chase the stock, I can cut loss, I can do what I like.

Posted by Intelligent Investor > 2016-06-19 19:56 | Report Abuse

“In our opinion, the two approaches (value and growth) are joined at the hip: Growth is always a component in the calculation of value, constituting a variable whose importance can range from negligible to enormous and whose impact can be negative as well as positive...” - Warren Buffett

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-19 20:04 | Report Abuse

In growth, no need so many formulas, so many uncertainties, unless it is a TNB IPP or completed toll roads.

just back of envelop calculations will do.

after that , it is all gut feeling.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-06-19 20:04 | Report Abuse

No need quarrel lah
You cari your makan
He cari his makan
No need to debate whether your makan more tasty than his

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-06-19 20:09 | Report Abuse

Concon, how abt otb? U keep cursing him.....

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-06-19 20:09 | Report Abuse

Both methods also good
They are suitable for different people
This world very big, can accomodate different schools
Nobody is 100% right or wrong

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-06-19 22:35 | Report Abuse

"Value investor" this sound very sweet to hear, nice to hold, good to learn, but in fact there is no value to be seen in the words
Investor is investor, trader is trader
There will never be the third type of person as value investor or non value investor
Btw look like the time is very bad for all kind of investor, so no one is good at a falling market given it is value or non value investor

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-06-19 22:56 | Report Abuse

I won't be surprise to see 10-15% dividend yield opportunities to surface in the coming few months, the high dividends is no longer a guarantee factor to attract investor, it is the currency appreciation that matter the most. Which country practice currency appreciation will definitely gain the trust of their money. Japan a good example, no matter how much it devaluate the currency they will always stand up as a market leader. The 1998 financial crisis still remain a myths to so many financial expert.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-06-19 23:34 | Report Abuse

Some of the high dividend and big established business model is under my watchlist
But I'm not hestitate to put my bet into them instead I will keep my money in different currency, imagine what will happen when the company can promise 15% dividends yield but the stupid currency drop to usd 1:10, which is far worse than the dividends itself, and it is barely making any money, one very interesting observation is Singaporean buy house in Malaysia with 2.5 exchange rate by the year 2014, and by now the house should be appreciated by 10%, but the exchange rate is 3.00 now which meant a 20% appreciation, this particular "investor" basically loss 10% in the investment even if it's value appreciate by 10% because he still loss money on the exchange rate or forex loss of 10%. Now imagine it in the scale of 1:10 exchange rate

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-19 23:59 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 19, 2016 06:18 PM | Report Abuse
growth stocks vs value stocks.
growth stocks tend to go higher and higher, breaking new high all the time.
value stocks tend to go lower and lower and discounts getting wider and wider.....hahahahaha
anyway I have say all I want to say on this topic here...especially in the comments section.


But you are just muttering without showing any research of statistical significance.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 00:05 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 19, 2016 07:49 PM | Report Abuse
Growth.....that is all based on projections and opinions.
it changes at the drop of a hat. That is what makes it exciting.
I can chase the stock, I can cut loss, I can do what I like.

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 19, 2016 08:04 PM | Report Abuse
In growth, no need so many formulas, so many uncertainties, unless it is a TNB IPP or completed toll roads.
just back of envelop calculations will do.
after that , it is all gut feeling.


All based on "projections" and "opinions". So that is your "growth" investing?

"back of envelop calculations? Gut feeling?

Interesting!

Please elaborate, and with some examples, research backing etc. And also your experience of extra-ordinary return using these thingy.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-06-20 00:52 | Report Abuse

Is the ringgit undervalue?
I'm surprise to know that BNM didn't make much noise lately after the newly appointed gabenor, it should be safe to assume they are very comfortable with it, should I conclude it is a fair value and it is still overvalued at this rate, what is the confident the BNM can assure to the world especially to me? NOTHING!
But the MAS can assure the world the sgd will continue to practice currency appreciation.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-20 04:39 | Report Abuse

Using 20 formulas and 5 valuation methods and advanced Maths is fine when applied to portfolio theory, how a portfolio will perform in uncertainties.

But in predicting the projection of any particular stock, I think I will rely on my trusted guts.


Reminds me of the quantum theory and uncertainty Principles

Don't forget, academia have given on stock picking..

They like to tell the story of the darts and the monkeys.

So why you keep pestering me for academic research on my methods?

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 08:27 | Report Abuse

To those who always like to use mathematics and called themselves value investors. Let me explain to you how mathematics does not work for investing. A horse that can count from 1 to 10 is a very smart horse but the horse is still the horse and why can horse pick stocks that are of value to investors in the long term. A horse only picks anything that looks green, a horse eat grass, probably. If you learn from the horse you will become a horse by picking everything that look only green, you think only grean color you buy, in the end of the day, you only buy a bunch of grass, and grass cost very little in Malaysia.

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 08:30 | Report Abuse

I hope you don't take his next course of mathematics or else you become a horse that buy what is green and only buy grass, what for aha?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-20 08:33 | Report Abuse

a white horse is not a horse. ...says some smart people.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-06-20 08:36 | Report Abuse

lots of formulas and maths gives the impression of certainty. ...where none exists.

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 09:41 | Report Abuse

value is doing something on good fate, doing something out of necessary, doing samething out of kindness, and doing something out of compassion, anything that is doing something out of statistics or mathematics has nothing to do with value. Value is something you provide to people realistically, statistics or mathematics don't do that, because investors are only interested in collecting money, and investors are not interested in learning statistics or mathematics. That is why statistics or mathematics are worthless when your intention is collecting money.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 09:47 | Report Abuse

Posted by sostupid > Jun 20, 2016 08:27 AM | Report Abuse
To those who always like to use mathematics and called themselves value investors. Let me explain to you how mathematics does not work for investing. A horse that can count from 1 to 10 is a very smart horse but the horse is still the horse and why can horse pick stocks that are of value to investors in the long term. A horse only picks anything that looks green, a horse eat grass, probably. If you learn from the horse you will become a horse by picking everything that look only green, you think only grean color you buy, in the end of the day, you only buy a bunch of grass, and grass cost very little in Malaysia.


Are you talking about this thingy "sostupid"?

Surely it can't be those super investors who use value investing which I have shown the fantastic long-term return they have proven to make, can it?

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 09:48 | Report Abuse

Give you mathematics or statistics lessons for the purpose of taking your money away from you is not value investing. You take value from people (the money) away from people is not value investing, it is called daylight robbery.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 09:54 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 20, 2016 04:39 AM | Report Abuse
Using 20 formulas and 5 valuation methods and advanced Maths is fine when applied to portfolio theory, how a portfolio will perform in uncertainties.
But in predicting the projection of any particular stock, I think I will rely on my trusted guts.
Reminds me of the quantum theory and uncertainty Principles
Don't forget, academia have given on stock picking..
They like to tell the story of the darts and the monkeys.
So why you keep pestering me for academic research on my methods?

"20 formulas and 5 valuation methods". Which ratios and methods you are referring to?

"advanced Maths", What advanced Maths you are talking about?

"predicting the projection of any particular stock, I think I will rely on my trusted guts." What "guts" is yours?


"Reminds me of the quantum theory and uncertainty Principles, Please elaborate!


"Don't forget, academia have given on stock picking..
They like to tell the story of the darts and the monkeys."

Don't you think your above two statements contradicting each other?


"So why you keep pestering me for academic research on my methods?

Why? Because just simply talk and use one or two examples to approve or disapprove something is useless.

"Before dismissing academic research as pure theory or useless information, please note that unlike most stories telling and sweeping statements, all yours included, academic studies are the product of months or years of work; they carry out econometric analysis of large sets of data and provide empirical evidence, rather than basing on a few observations to make an inference. It gives answers; not just yes or no, but also why and how and has to be proven with precise weighing of evidence. The essence of the scientific method is to come up with a hypothesis, test it, and then make sure it can be repeated — and not skewed by external factors."

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 10:00 | Report Abuse

Value investing is providing value to people out of good faith, out of necessary, out of compassion, and not for the purpose of teaching old people how to do mathematics or statistics. I know linear regression and statistics I also don't use those complicated garbage to teach people.

Value investing: for example, when there is a river and there is no bridge, if there is a bridge there would be a value when it is urgent for people to cross the bridge. Value investing is investing is something that people has urgent needs. Like investing in Coca-Cola, Wells Fargo, American Express, Geico, and duracell and others, all of these companies give people urgent needs.

Investing in companies that provide urgent needs are value investing in Warren Buffett's dictionary but not in Kcchong's dictionary because only mathematics are value investing.

You believe somebody that tell you the mathematics that they don't even understand themselves.

You allow somebody to teach you value investing when he does not even understand meaning of value investing.

You ask a blind man to help you to cross the river with dangerous water.

This guy is imposter. Up to you, I don't know mathematics because I know how to count money. You want to learn mathematics from him is your own business.

At least get the defintion of value investing right yourself, because that imposter does not even understand what is value investing and he is always taking about he is the only one who knows what is a value investing but other people don't know, top secret, I think the mathematics are even bigger top secrets that you should keep away.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 10:01 | Report Abuse

Posted by sostupid > Jun 20, 2016 09:48 AM | Report Abuse
Give you mathematics or statistics lessons for the purpose of taking your money away from you is not value investing. You take value from people (the money) away from people is not value investing, it is called daylight robbery.


Do you consider this as "Daylight robbery"?

Posted by Intelligent Investor > Dec 21, 2015 08:24 PM | Report Abuse “An investment in Mr. Chong course provide me the ever best return.”

Posted by coolio > Oct 22, 2015 11:58 AM | Report Abuse I just want to take this opportunity to say thank you again because recently I have achieved 7 figure in my investing journey...hehehe.. Thanks for your investing methods, no 8 wonders in the world is really amazing!

Posted by DavideLim > 2016-06-20 10:03 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 10:16 | Report Abuse

"I know linear regression and statistics I also don't use those complicated garbage to teach people."

"I don't know mathematics"

Which is which; do you know linear regression and statistics, or don't know?

Who uses linear regression and statistics to teach value investing? I do know those thingy,but do I use them to teach value investing?

"Value investing: for example, when there is a river and there is no bridge, if there is a bridge there would be a value when it is urgent for people to cross the bridge. Value investing is investing is something that people has urgent needs. Like investing in Coca-Cola, Wells Fargo, American Express, Geico, and duracell and others, all of these companies give people urgent needs."

What "urgent needs"?

Why "urgent needs" in Coca Cola, American Express, Geico, duracell? Because people will die without them?


"At least get the defintion of value investing right yourself, because that imposter does not even understand what is value investing and he is always taking about he is the only one who knows what is a value investing but other people don't know, top secret, I think the mathematics are even bigger top secrets that you should keep away."

I have written numerous articles on value investing in i3. Mind to gives some specific comments to prove your above statement?

So we must follow your definition of value investing that "Investing in companies that provide urgent needs are value investing"?

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 10:20 | Report Abuse

Why "urgent needs" in Coca Cola, American Express, Geico, duracell? Because people will die without them?

You need people to inform that no drinking water, no money, no car insurance, no battery, all these will not die when you don't have them but you will die if you don't have these when you need them.

Even this also I need to tell you, you are more kindergarten in investing than I thought you are?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 10:36 | Report Abuse

Posted by sostupid > Jun 20, 2016 10:20 AM | Report Abuse
Why "urgent needs" in Coca Cola, American Express, Geico, duracell? Because people will die without them?
You need people to inform that no drinking water, no money, no car insurance, no battery, all these will not die when you don't have them but you will die if you don't have these when you need them.
Even this also I need to tell you, you are more kindergarten in investing than I thought you are?

So investor must invest in Coca Cola because you need to drink its water. Must have Amex card, must buy duracell, insurance must be from Geico, if not "you will die if you don't have these when you need them"?

Really?

And also must buy no matter what prices are they selling?

"Even this also I need to tell you, you are more kindergarten in investing than I thought you are?"

I can understand why you refer yourself in your above statement now.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 10:41 | Report Abuse

Posted by sostupid > Jun 20, 2016 10:32 AM | Report Abuse
Which is which; do you know linear regression and statistics, or don't know?
All statisticians used linear regression, I believe you need to brush up on your mathematics.


Who is a statistician? I don't claim myself to be one,and I don't use, although I have learned it before.

Yes, all statisticians have learned linear regression, but are you sure all statisticians use regression in their work? i highly doubt so.

Posted by sostupid > 2016-06-20 10:48 | Report Abuse

For example, american express, you said you don't have american express you will not die? If you go traveling overseas, you have no money to buy, you die there in Turkey or what. Or, you go to New Zeland without an american express, when even taxi fare also you can not afford, without the american express you die or not. american express has a global network, you go to Africa or Shahara desert also you can use. Get it. Insurance included if you have american express for traveling when luggages are stolen. Value investing is invest in people's urgency, get it. At that time there is no uncertaintly and there is no need to use mathamatics when people are very urgent, at time, when you are urgent even calculator also is redundent.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-06-20 10:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by sostupid > Jun 20, 2016 10:48 AM | Report Abuse
For example, american express, you said you don't have american express you will not die? If you go traveling overseas, you have no money to buy, you die there in Turkey or what. Or, you go to New Zeland without an american express, when even taxi fare also you can not afford, without the american express you die or not. american express has a global network, you go to Africa or Shahara desert also you can use. Get it.

WHY GO TRAVELING OVERSEAS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY?
NO MONEY TO PAY TAXI FARE CAN DIE AH? UHH!
MUST GO TO SAHARA DESSERT, SOME MORE DON'T BRING OR BUY WATER AH?
WHY GO TO SHARA DESSERT IN ORDER TO USE AMERICAN EXPRESS?
MASTER CARD, VISA CARD NO USE AH?
NO COKE TO DRINK CAN DIE AH? WHAT ABOUT DRINKING PEPSI, WATER(FROM TAP NOT FROM COKE, I DIDN'T KNOW COCA COLA SELLS WATER)
NO,I DON'T GET IT.

Insurance included if you have american express for traveling when luggages are stolen. Value investing is invest in people's urgency, get it. At that time there is no uncertaintly and there is no need to use mathamatics when people are very urgent, at time, when you are urgent even calculator also is redundent.

LUGGAGE LOSS CAN DIE AH? WHY MUST HAVE INSURANCE, AND PARTICULARLY FROM AMEX? SO URGENT TO HAVE INSURANCE TO COVER LUGGAGE LOSS AH?

NO,I STILL DON'T GET IT!