Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 12:05 | Report Abuse

ASK YOURSELF IS IT REALLY A BANK MARGIN CALL ?
OR
KYY HIMSELF DECIDE TO SELLOFF JAKS ON PRETEXT OF MARGIN CALL LOH...!!

BTW...USUALLY BANK'S MARGIN CALL....DON TAKE SO LONG....3 DAYS ALREADY HABIS CERITA MAH....!!


Posted by Nikmon > Aug 10, 2018 11:56 AM | Report Abuse

wow, KYY stop selling lah, it will fly to 1.5 easily if you stop selling.


goodguess
260 posts
Posted by goodguess > Aug 10, 2018 11:58 AM | Report Abuse

How much does KYY need to sell before margin call is called off. Who is moping up his shares. He has together with wife sold about 8 to 10% of his peak shares.

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-10 12:19 | Report Abuse

KYY realises nobody (I meant no big boys lah) buy his IPP Vietnam Wawasan 2020 story after 1 year plus..even his favourite FM refused to help so...

So at the end he has to cut his JAKS and suffer some losses (maybe 20%-30% losses)

I believe he will resume his biz with OTB in Koon Bee...can easily recover all his losses in JAKS....

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-10 12:21 | Report Abuse

Nevertheless still got some fellow die die holding JAKS waiting for Wawasan 2020 dreams

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-08-10 13:05 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-08-10 13:33 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 13:35 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 9, 2018 10:35 PM | Report Abuse

RAIDER REPLY,

WARREN BUFFET ADVICE PEOPLE TO INVEST IN SHARE ON A BUSINESS LIKE MANNER MAH, THUS SHARE INVESTING IF DONE PROPERLY IS BUSINESS LIKE AS ANY BUSINESS MAH...!!
IF GOOD BUSINESSMAN ARE ALLOWED TO BORROW, THEN WHY NOT GOOD INVESTOR SHOULD BORROW TOO LOH....!!

KC ARGUE SHARE INVESTMENT NO NEED TO USE MARGIN, CAN USE OWN SWEET TIME TO GROW, THEN THE SAME ARGUEMENT SHOULD APPLY TO BUSINES, WHY DON THEY USE CASH AND TAKE A LONGER TIME TO GROW, INSTEAD OF TAKE RISK TO BORROW FOR GROWTH LEH ??

THE ABOVE SHOWS THAT, IF U THINK BUSINESS LIKE FOR SHARE INVESTMENT, THE PARTICIPANTS SHOULD BE GIVEN THE OPTION TO BORROW USING MARGIN MAH...!!


What another twisted argument. A businessman borrows money to do a business he fully own and controls is the same as using MF for buying shares of the company, or a minute portion of ownership of the business?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 13:41 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 9, 2018 10:44 PM | Report Abuse

Twisted MF argument 2

RAIDER ADVICE,
WHY BELITTLE MARGIN INVESTORS LEH ??

JUST BCOS UR RICH FRIEND DOES NOT USE MARGIN, DOES MEAN PEOPLE CANNOT MAKE USING MARGIN LOH....!!

ALOT OF BUSINESS R SPECIALIST....THEY ARE VERY NARROW FOCUS...THUS IT IS POSSIBLE, THEY DON MAKE MONIES FROM SHARE SHARE INVESTMENT, WHAT MORE FROM SHARE MARGIN INVESTMENT LOH...!!

THERE ARE PEOPLE MAKE ALOT OF MONIES USING MARGIN LOH....!!

KYY COULD ONE OF THEM LOH....!!

RAIDER BUDDIES ALL MAKE MONIES USING MARGIN TOO MAH...!!


Good on you. You and your buddies are in the same league as KYY.

Who "BELITTLE MARGIN INVESTORS LEH"?

We dare to belittle you leh?

Carry on using MF, and tell everybody to do so. Good on you.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-08-10 14:40 | Report Abuse

kc


forget about margin accounts, it is just a tool.

It is business sense you got to develop.


no business sense cannot sailang, let alone margin account.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 15:16 | Report Abuse

RAIDER REPLY,
SO IF U TAKE MARGIN 5% PA...AND INVEST R U.. NOT NEED TO ACHIEVE THE REQUISITE ABOVE 5% PA RETURN....IF U FAILED U WILL BE PUNISH...THRU CAPITAL LOSS LOH....!!

IF U FAIL TO ACHIEVE 5% PA...IS IT NOT U NEED CONSIDER WHETHER U R SUITABLE IN INVESTING , SINCE U R NOT GOOD ENOUGH LEH ??

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH....THEY IS COST ON MONIES OR OPPORTUNITY COST MAH...!!


Read my article again where I gave the annual return for the last 5-year, 4-year, 3 year, 2-year and one-year return of the broad index. That can be approximated as the return of "an ordinary investor" in Bursa, which includes fund managers and institutional investors.

Could they get the return of the cost of capital of 5%?

If not, how a young and new investor to get the return of the cost of 5% in MF?

Why are you still telling them to borrow and lose more?

So they are not suppose to invest in stock market? Only 20% of them can invest?

Another twisted argument.

Posted by goldenluck16 > 2018-08-10 15:23 | Report Abuse

Even with a conservative buying cost of RM 1.30, KYY would have lost 60% of his investment in this counter. Share financing means you lose double when it comes to forced selling.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 16:19 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 16:55 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 10, 2018 04:19 PM | Report Abuse
Your Info are based on mediocre average performance loh....!!
If u r mediocre...do u think u should remain in the mkt leh ??
U should be the top 20% of the overall investor to outperformed, if that is ur overall result...using mf will amplify ur result or return mah...!!
If u r one of the soochai...mediocre naturally u will be eliminated, then ....u suffer no damages in future, bcos...u do not make it as a good investor mah....!!


So those 80% after one year, two years, three years, four years and five years investing, and with MF, say lost RM100k will know they are not cut out as investors and should leave the stock market to you and your buddies? Mind you, 60-70% of them are fund managers and institutional investors. You know or not?

And those 20% make profit above 5% with MF, including you and your buddies, should be the only ones remain in the market?

So the market will be left with the 20% winners? And all of them will be winners for the future?

Who are the losers ah?

Another hell-of-twisted argument.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 17:09 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 9, 2018 11:10 PM | Report Abuse

Twisted MF argument 4 & 5

WHEN YOUR PARTNER THE BANKER DEVICE A MARGIN SCHEME FOR U THEY THINK OF HELPING U TO MAKE MORE MONIES AT THE SAME TIME SAFEGUARDING U TO PROTECT THEM LOH....!!

SO MARGIN CALL IS TO PROTECT U LOH....!!
AND A GOOD MARGIN FINANCE WILL AMPLIFY UR RETURN LOH...!!

BUT KC...USE A VERY BAD ILLUSTRATION ON JAKS....WHICH RAIDER THINK IT IS NOT A GOOD REFLECTIVE EXAMPLE LOH....!!

BASICALLY RAIDER WOULD USE MARGIN INVESTMENT LIKE USING CASH INVEST MORE CONSERVATIVELY FOR LONG TERN THEN KYY LOH....!!


I have used a hot stock to demonstrate what I mean with all the numbers. Why don't you use your example to demonstrate how you double, triple or ten times return using MF?

What about using your favorite stocks? HengYuan, which I have used it too and shared in i3investor?

Or another of your favorite stock, Evergreen?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-08-10 17:17 | Report Abuse

kc

don't talk cock so much

let business man do what a business man must do.

let a scared scared educator remain a scared scared educator.

in portfolio design, in stock selection.....business sense beats dumb dumb maths any time.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 17:24 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 17:34 | Report Abuse

Raider says if u start to use margin on today price 10-8-2018 on Hengyuan at Rm 7.55 or evergreen at rm 0.545, raider still see u, will out perform positively over the one yr period, even after paying the 5% financing cost loh....!!

Perhaps u may want to take raider comment as an experiment, maybe measure the result after 1 yr say on 31-8-2019 loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > Aug 9, 2018 11:10 PM | Report Abuse

Twisted MF argument 4 & 5

WHEN YOUR PARTNER THE BANKER DEVICE A MARGIN SCHEME FOR U THEY THINK OF HELPING U TO MAKE MORE MONIES AT THE SAME TIME SAFEGUARDING U TO PROTECT THEM LOH....!!

SO MARGIN CALL IS TO PROTECT U LOH....!!
AND A GOOD MARGIN FINANCE WILL AMPLIFY UR RETURN LOH...!!

BUT KC...USE A VERY BAD ILLUSTRATION ON JAKS....WHICH RAIDER THINK IT IS NOT A GOOD REFLECTIVE EXAMPLE LOH....!!

BASICALLY RAIDER WOULD USE MARGIN INVESTMENT LIKE USING CASH INVEST MORE CONSERVATIVELY FOR LONG TERN THEN KYY LOH....!!

I have used a hot stock to demonstrate what I mean with all the numbers. Why don't you use your example to demonstrate how you double, triple or ten times return using MF?

What about using your favorite stocks? HengYuan, which I have used it too and shared in i3investor?

Or another of your favorite stock, Evergreen?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 17:44 | Report Abuse

Raider ans;

If ur business is share investment...U R in control mah...!!

Business investor of share can do the following with no restriction :

1. Avoid
2. Buy
3. Sell
4. Hold

The above is your right as a share investment business loh...!!

U still can supplement ur research study including the co prospect, economics & BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...!!

Who says u not in control leh ??

Posted by stockraider > Aug 9, 2018 10:35 PM | Report Abuse

RAIDER REPLY,

WARREN BUFFET ADVICE PEOPLE TO INVEST IN SHARE ON A BUSINESS LIKE MANNER MAH, THUS SHARE INVESTING IF DONE PROPERLY IS BUSINESS LIKE AS ANY BUSINESS MAH...!!
IF GOOD BUSINESSMAN ARE ALLOWED TO BORROW, THEN WHY NOT GOOD INVESTOR SHOULD BORROW TOO LOH....!!

KC ARGUE SHARE INVESTMENT NO NEED TO USE MARGIN, CAN USE OWN SWEET TIME TO GROW, THEN THE SAME ARGUEMENT SHOULD APPLY TO BUSINES, WHY DON THEY USE CASH AND TAKE A LONGER TIME TO GROW, INSTEAD OF TAKE RISK TO BORROW FOR GROWTH LEH ??

THE ABOVE SHOWS THAT, IF U THINK BUSINESS LIKE FOR SHARE INVESTMENT, THE PARTICIPANTS SHOULD BE GIVEN THE OPTION TO BORROW USING MARGIN MAH...!!


What another twisted argument. A businessman borrows money to do a business he fully own and controls is the same as using MF for buying shares of the company, or a minute portion of ownership of the business?

Posted by Sslee > 2018-08-10 18:01 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
Now you know why mainland China can ill afford democracy. It's in our gene, we like to argue untill the cows come home.
Thabk you

Posted by newbie911 > 2018-08-10 18:08 | Report Abuse

Actually how kyy earn? Most his stock gg

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 18:14 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Aug 10, 2018 02:40 PM | Report Abuse
kc
forget about margin accounts, it is just a tool.
It is business sense you got to develop.
no business sense cannot sailang, let alone margin account.


You have been talking about how good your BS, I mean bullshit, is in Jaks, and how many times shouting sailang sailang on it.

You have also been telling everyone here sailang in Jaks.

So how good has been your business sense in Jaks? What has been your outcome sailanging Jaks?

Please share.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 18:22 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 10, 2018 05:34 PM | Report Abuse
Raider says if u start to use margin on today price 10-8-2018 on Hengyuan at Rm 7.55 or evergreen at rm 0.545, raider still see u, will out perform positively over the one yr period, even after paying the 5% financing cost loh....!!
Perhaps u may want to take raider comment as an experiment, maybe measure the result after 1 yr say on 31-8-2019 loh....!!


What is the point talking about the future which nobody knows how it will turn out?

Talk about the past, qhar have happened, when you buy and sell, and write an article to share with us how you have made so much money using MF.

By the way, i thought you have informed that you have exited from Hengyuan and Evergreen after "awakened" by MF?

Not participating in your prediction on the upside of HY and EG ah? Why ah, since you say so good and you have a crystal in front of you?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-08-10 18:27 | Report Abuse

kc...

Jaks....Jaks is good to me.....I made not less than 5 times already.....

Its business sense first.

I introduce you girl, no guarantee got baby....That is also business sense.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 18:36 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Aug 10, 2018 06:27 PM | Report Abuse
kc...
Jaks....Jaks is good to me.....I made not less than 5 times already.....
Its business sense first.
I introduce you girl, no guarantee got baby....That is also business sense.

Good also lah with you around. It adds some silly jokes and laughter .

Please carry on.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 19:27 | Report Abuse

Talk future is the best loh....!!

Talk past ....actually looking at hindsight....the result already known mah, what is the point leh ??


Furthermore, even if raider says, i m doing well...people may say bull shiting or manipulating, bcos cannot be validated mah...!!

So avoid this controversial better based on future result of course better than the past loh....!!

Posted by kcchongnz > Aug 10, 2018 06:22 PM | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 10, 2018 05:34 PM | Report Abuse
Raider says if u start to use margin on today price 10-8-2018 on Hengyuan at Rm 7.55 or evergreen at rm 0.545, raider still see u, will out perform positively over the one yr period, even after paying the 5% financing cost loh....!!
Perhaps u may want to take raider comment as an experiment, maybe measure the result after 1 yr say on 31-8-2019 loh....!!


What is the point talking about the future which nobody knows how it will turn out?

Talk about the past, qhar have happened, when you buy and sell, and write an article to share with us how you have made so much money using MF.

By the way, i thought you have informed that you have exited from Hengyuan and Evergreen after "awakened" by MF?

Not participating in your prediction on the upside of HY and EG ah? Why ah, since you say so good and you have a crystal in front of you?

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-10 19:50 | Report Abuse

Raider's argument,

If you are super investor, and very accurate market timer and sentiment reader and most importantly, guaranteed very lucky.

Should use margin.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 19:52 | Report Abuse

This apply to kyy...Not raider loh...!!

Posted by Jon Choivo > Aug 10, 2018 07:50 PM | Report Abuse

Raider's argument,

If you are super investor, and very accurate market timer and sentiment reader and most importantly, guaranteed very lucky.

Should use margin.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-10 19:57 | Report Abuse

If not for KYY, you die liao, stuck at RM10.

If that week something happen, you had to rush somewhere, the drop from RM20 to RM6, will margin call until you have to stay with your son and start working again.

Why risk that?

Yes if you're really good, conservatively using margin will 99% of the time make you richer. But there is the 1% chance you will die or really get fuck.

What for? If you're really good, you don't need margin to get rich.

Raider, if i give you a gun with 20 chambers, there is one bullet, and ask you to play russian roulette.

5% chance you will die, if you don't, you get RM100 million.

You will take that bet i think, even if you were in your twenties. I won't.

That's our difference.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-10 20:18 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-08-10 20:31 | Report Abuse

jon


margins a tool for business man.

for non businessman, dares not even sailang, let alone margin.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-08-10 20:42 | Report Abuse

jon kc

entrepreneurship, risk taking , is what every university wants to teach.....

scared scared negativity only promoted by fakes around here.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 21:46 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Aug 10, 2018 08:42 PM | Report Abuse
jon kc
entrepreneurship, risk taking , is what every university wants to teach.....


Hey, have you gone to university before or not?

Never mind, keep on talking. We really need more jokes here.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-10 21:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Aug 10, 2018 08:31 PM | Report Abuse
jon
margins a tool for business man.
for non businessman, dares not even sailang, let alone margin.


Hey, have you been a businessman before or not?

Never mind, you can ask any businessman if they use MF or not? What is the percentage of them doing so, if you have any businessman friend.

Or were you and are you a "non businessman"? You sailang or not? Sailang in what? Margin? How much is your margin?

And how much you made sailanging Jaks the last 6 months?

Never mind. Keep talking. We really need more jokes here.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 09:41 | Report Abuse

As raider says MF is just a tool loh....!!

The arguement whether MF is good or bad, is just too side of coin arguement mah, it can be good or can be bad loh...!!

For raider for it to be good, u must be much more competent in terms of investment skill than the average general public, thus MF should be able to give u amplify return loh...!!

People says share margin may cause u amplify losses thus becareful loh.!
RAIDER AGREE LOH...!! THATS WHY RAIDER STRESS ON INVESTMENT SKILL & RISK MANAGEMENT B4 U USE MF LOH...!!

Then why raider recommend to newbies, knowingly they are not so competent leh ??
Yes raider recommend to newbies bcos they are most suitable bcos they are young, not much capital, just starting to learn loh...!!

a)Young...means u got time to build & acquire investment knowledge.
b) Not much capital...means if u lose everything...it is not that much to lose mah..!!

Think this way, ur parent investing alot of monies for u to acquire an oversea general good U degree that easily cost rm 500k to rm 1000k, can u see immediate good return? No loh...but u see it is essential to give u a long term head start in your future good career job advancement loh...!!

Likewise if u invest rm 20k to rm 30k to get MF rm 60k to Rm 100k to get a good headstart in your investment training which is good for your long wealth accumulation...in fact if u r successful, u can build ur lifelong 2nd income source mah...!!

People says u already good why take more risk on MF loh...!!
U NEED TO UNDERSTAND ALREADY GOOD AND ALREADY WEALTHY DIFFERENT LOH..!!
U R GOOD, BUT U R NOT RICH LOH....U NEED TO PUT UR GOOD EFFORT SUCCESSFULLY TO ACQUIRE WEALTH MAH...!!

WHY U NEED TO BORROW ??
PUT IT THIS WAY LOH....IF U R. YOUR GOOD UR PROBABILITY OF SUCCESS IS 70% AND FAILURE 30% !!

U HAVE RM 30K AND HAVE THE CHANCE TO BORROW ANOTHER RM 90K....DO U START WITH RM 30K CAPITAL OR DO U START RM 120K(CAPITAL PLUS BORROWING}

THE CORRECT OR PROGRESSIVE MATHS TEACHER WILL TELL U RM 120K LOH..!
THATS WHY MOST BUSINESSMEN with Business Sense CHOSE OPTION 1.

THE NOT SO BUSINESS MINDED TEACHER WILL SAY Option 2 with RM 30K OR BETTER DON INVEST AT ALL.. PUT All INTO FD LOH...!!

Actually the correct maths answer is Rm 120k ( capital & borrowing loh)

Why young newbies leh ??
This young newbies start with clean sheet mah, so it is easier & better to acquire good investment knowledge b4 they got corrupted loh....!!

Don ask a 55 yrs to do margin mah, it is difficult to train an old dog new tricks mah....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 09:54 | Report Abuse

Strategy during crisis investment
Author: CP TEH | Publish date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 11:18 AM | >> Read article in Blog website

24-11-2008: Strategy during crisis investment by Ang Kok Heng

When market was high, many investors were careful and avoided jumping onto the bandwagon. Now that the market has fallen, and fallen sharply, many investors are still wary about investing. There is nothing wrong about being careful with one's hard-earned money. Not unless our interest rate falls to 1%, like in the case of US or close to zero in Japan.

The only problem with extremely cautious investors is that they kept their money in banks most of the time. They sighed with relief for not being caught by the market. While they escaped the bear, they also missed the bull. Many Malaysians witnessed the bear and bull during the ups and downs of the economy. Nothing happened to them as they did not suffer any losses and neither did they gain anything from these cycles.

No crystal ball
Many investors were cautious because they do not have a crystal ball to predict where the bottom of the market is. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a crystal ball in the investment world.

Everyone is faced with the same dilemma. Even the professional investment fraternity cannot predict the market accurately. The only difference between a layman and a professional is that the latter is equipped with a bit more information and some knowledge about investing. But their vision is also limited.

They can only see a few feet ahead. Their vision becomes hazier further away from the target. Beyond certain circumference, they probably cannot predict what will happen. Whatever they forecast is purely based on a set of assumptions which may or may not be valid. As such, the predictions of many analysts and fund managers are nothing more than their own assumptions.

Travelling on rainy night
Investment is like travelling in the rain at night. Some may park their cars by the side of the road during thunderstorms while waiting for the rain to stop.

This is especially true for those with astigmatism and poor night vision. They know they can only travel on a rainy night if they have their vision corrected.

Some will drive very carefully in the downpour due to poor condition of their wipers. They know that they are not equipped to speed before changing the wipers.

For those who are well equipped and familiar with the road conditions including the bends and nooks, they can drive on with reasonable speed. Hence, they arrive home early and safe. Getting home safely is important, but getting home early is definitely an achievement. For those who are less equipped, it is better to get someone who knows how to drive to take over the wheel.
In investment, one must be equipped with the basic investment knowledge and familiar with the investment conditions. Otherwise, the road ahead could be treacherous.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 09:55 | Report Abuse

Crisis means opportunities
The prevailing financial crisis in US may provide the much-desired opportunities. The Chinese character for crisis means danger and opportunity. These meanings must have been coined many years ago based on the Chinese' experience. The explanation can be seen as a clue and it has helped many successful people to make huge profit.

"Buy when markets hit the point of maximum pessimism." - Sir John Templeton

For those who have been keeping their savings in the bank, the opportunity arises during a crisis. Their patience eventually becomes fruition. The day of recognition finally arrives and their prayer is answered. Ironically, many who have patiently kept their savings in the safe cradles become more protective of their savings and they just stood by the sidelines, watching the crisis comes and goes. It happened in the past and it is happening now and it may also happen in the future.

Market chaser - a loser
On the contrary, there are also certain groups of investors who always chase the market. They get excited whenever the market runs. They are overwhelmed whenever the bull is in town and they tail behind the bull. When the bull is gone and the bear returns, they become fearful. They hide at home and cuddle whatever balance they have in their savings.

"The public buys the most at the top and the least at the bottom." - Bob Farrell's Rule No 5
As a whole they put in more money during the bull market than in the bear bottom. Some even cut lost after a substantial fall in prices. In a way they "buy high and sell low", whereas the basic rule of investment is to "buy low, then sell high" - a simple investment tenet understood by most people, but not being widely practised. Although we may not know where the bear bottom is, buying in a down market may still lead to losing money. This is definitely true. As long as the purchase is not at market bottom, it may still result in losses for the time being. This is likely to be a short-term loss but compensated by a probable long-term gain. Even if we cannot time the market perfectly, we are definitely better off to "buy low and sell high" then to "buy high and sell low".

Prices fell but value intact
Presently stock prices have fallen sharply. Banks are trading at 1x book value, property stocks sold at 50% discount from net asset value, utility stocks trading at single-digit price-earnings ratio providing an earnings yield of more than 10% net of tax and there are many good stocks trading at dividend yield of 2x bank interest rates.

While prices have fallen off the cliff, the values of these companies are still very much intact. The present financial tsunami in the US has its impact on many Malaysian companies. It will cause a slowdown in our economy and affect earnings over the next one to two years. But isn't this part of business risk? Established and proven companies have weathered this many times as in the past and they will eventually end up bigger and stronger.

Prices may fall but the value of a good company is still very much intact. The value of a company comprises the brand name, business contacts, the team of suppliers, the network of clienteles, the internal management control, the technical skills and etc.

Warren Buffett is busy buying
Warrant Buffett, the second richest man in the world who makes his fortune from stock investment, is busy buying undervalued companies. He sees the value and he also sees prices detaching away from the intrinsic values. He said: "I haven't the faintest idea as to whether stocks will be higher or lower a month - or a year - from now. What is likely, however, is that the market will move higher, perhaps substantially so, well before either sentiment or the economy turn up."

Although we may not be able to imitate exactly what he is doing, we can still follow some of his investment strategies. There are a few strategic moves that he has employed in the current financial crisis:-

• He is able to buy those shares which he likes in the past at a huge discount to the net worth, which means his safety margin at this point is very good.

• He aims to hold the investments for several years for huge profit margin as he is unlikely to sell for a small profit.

• He does not rush in to buy, he is very selective on the stocks he bought.

• He buys gradually. Thus far, he only uses about half of the cash balance in Berkshire Hathaway, his flagship company.

While others witness the collapse of banks in the US and wonder which one will be the next to fall, Buffett discovers many cheap buys. When Alan Greespan said this is a once-in-100-years financial crisis, Buffett believes this is a golden opportunity to accumulate undervalued stocks for his collection.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 09:56 | Report Abuse

Catching a falling knife

Some may argue that buying now is like catching a falling knife. If you are not careful, you may be hurt and suffer more losses from falling stock prices. There is no doubt that we may incur short-term losses as long as we do not buy at the bottom. On the other hand, who can determine where and when is the bottom. As long as there are still unknown events or hidden problems, an apparent bottom now may not be the eventual bottom. Since we do not have all the information in the market, it is almost impossible to guess where the bottom will be.

In most cases, we only realise the bottom after it is over and by that time stock prices are running high with much improved market confidence. Market bottom could be there only for a short period. In most cases, market did not stay at the bottom waiting for investors. It will just move on.

Since market moves ahead of the economy by about six months, the market bottoms out when the economy is still gloomy, news are still negative, analysts are still calling underweights and most investors are staying at the sidelines.

In the absence of a crystal ball and in order not to miss the market bottom, it will be more profitable if we learn how to catch a falling knife. The good thing about a falling knife is that, we know it is a falling knife. So, we only need to use some precautionary measures to avoid being slashed by it. Handling something we know is definitely much easier than dealing with the unknown risks, something which hits from behind without warning. When we invest during a crisis we actually go in with our eyes open. We know it is definitely risky but we also know it could also be very profitable. If we can handle the risk, the risk-reward trade-off will be very rewarding.

Emphasise strategies

What we need is to buy near the bottom, not right at the bottom. Investors' frequent question now is when to buy, that is where is the bottom? Perhaps it is more intelligent to ask how much to buy now since nobody will be able to guess where is the market bottom. Even if someone provides advice for market timing on when to buy, how can we trust he knows the answer. He is probably doing it as a favour in order not to disappoint the enquirer with a negative answer - "I don't know" (which is a fact, unfortunately), or he is probably guessing based on some assumptions.

Staggered buying is preferred over bullet purchase which is taking the risk of timing the market bottom. In staggered buying, a pre-determined amount will be set aside for investment over time, say in 10 equal portions.

One common method of staggered investment is dollar cost averaging, an investment scheme made in equal portions periodically, either by a small amount monthly or larger amount quarterly. There are also several variations of staggered investment.

The investment portion can be modified to x percentage of cash balance, say 10% of available cash balance. An investment of RM100,000 will start off with RM10,000 in first purchase, then RM9,000 in second purchase (ie 10% of the RM90,000 cash balance) etc. This method will stretch the money over a longer period.

Other than equal interval investment outlay irrespective of how the market performs, timing of the next staggered investment will only be made if the market dips by say 5% or by 50 points.
For more aggressive investors, a 10-equal portion of investment could be finished before market hits the bottom. This could happen if the market takes longer-than-expected time to recover. On the other hand, a more conservative investor may be investing too slowly and the market may have rebounded before he or she has invested half of the money set aside for investment. This could happen if the market rebounds faster than expected.

Anyway, staggered purchase is a preferred method to avoid the anxiety of market timing and the mixed feeling of fear of further downside and worry of missing the market rebound. As long as the market is undervalued, the strategy of staggered investment ensures that investors are in and are benefiting from the undervalued market.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-11 10:09 | Report Abuse

My grandfather was an uneducated man. He used to trade rubber etc in negeri sembilan.

He used to say that the way to do business is to earn the money, and then reinvest. He could never really understand how some people just borrow so much to do business.

At one point, he owned a very large percent of rubber estates in bahau.

Before he lost a big part in the 1997 crash. He got caught up in his friends buying stock near the peak of the crash and started buying as well.

His son was a different kind of business man. He is a property developer who used a lot of debt.

That man now is quite rich, but for the last 30 years, he will always go ask his father for money, his siblings for money to pay bank, borrow money from friends etc. So many times, his cash flow made him close to bankruptcy. He even transferred all the land titles to family members in case he really bankrupt.

What for.

As you usual, your thinking betray you failure to look at probabilities.

For every successful business man, who used debt well, there is hundreds more who died because of debt.

But the one who go broke because of debt, they stay silent because its embarrassing. Those who were successful, well, they are very loud.



===≠=======================

Posted by stockraider > Aug 10, 2018 08:18 PM | Report Abuse

U try telling all the rich business man & tycoon, why they should not continue to borrow monies to expand, despite their business already making monies loh...!!

They will tell u , that u r a soochai, to give such a stupid advice loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 10:14 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2018-08-11 10:57 | Report Abuse

Dear stockraider,
Why so long-winded with cut and paste lecturing? No more original idea on MF or how to pick a winning stock? Here is my takeaway:
Mr. CharlesT likes to say he is waiting for Koon Bee stock. Stock that Mr. Koon and Mr. Ooi both agreed on and recommended together.
Mr. KYY + Mr.OTB = (Business sense + Growth catalyst) + (FA + TA) = Sure HUAT and SIALANG.

Hope to see such stock in near future and HUAT together.
Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 11:10 | Report Abuse

DEAR SSLEE,

I THOUGHT THE ARTICLE POSTED BY CP TEH....IS A VERY GOOD ARTICLE FOR U TO PICK STOCK & MANAGE UR INVESTMENT WITH LESSER RISK LOH.

PLS READ CAREFULLY & LEARN FROM IT LOH...!!

IT IS LONG WINDED FOR A PURPOSE MAH...!!
Posted by Sslee > Aug 11, 2018 10:57 AM | Report Abuse

Dear stockraider,
Why so long-winded with cut and paste lecturing? No more original idea on MF or how to pick a winning stock? Here is my takeaway:
Mr. CharlesT likes to say he is waiting for Koon Bee stock. Stock that Mr. Koon and Mr. Ooi both agreed on and recommended together.
Mr. KYY + Mr.OTB = (Business sense + Growth catalyst) + (FA + TA) = Sure HUAT and SIALANG.

Hope to see such stock in near future and HUAT together.
Thank you

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-11 11:30 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 11, 2018 10:14 AM | Report Abuse

WHY U NEED TO BORROW ??
PUT IT THIS WAY LOH....IF U R. YOUR GOOD UR PROBABILITY OF SUCCESS IS 70% AND FAILURE 30% !!

Me: So sure? You are good right? So what was you success rate the past one year?

U HAVE RM 30K AND HAVE THE CHANCE TO BORROW ANOTHER RM 90K....DO U START WITH RM 30K CAPITAL OR DO U START RM 120K(CAPITAL PLUS BORROWING}

THE CORRECT OR PROGRESSIVE MATHS TEACHER WILL TELL U RM 120K LOH..!
THATS WHY MOST BUSINESSMEN with Business Sense CHOSE OPTION 1.

Me: You are talking to the old or the young?
Which businessmen are you referring to?
Are you still confuse with borrowing money to do a business, or MF?
If you are, for heaven sake, try find out the differences before preaching to the young.

THE NOT SO BUSINESS MINDED TEACHER WILL SAY Option 2 with RM 30K OR BETTER DON INVEST AT ALL.. PUT All INTO FD LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 11:46 | Report Abuse

Posted by kcchongnz > Aug 11, 2018 11:30 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 11, 2018 10:14 AM | Report Abuse

WHY U NEED TO BORROW ??
PUT IT THIS WAY LOH....IF U R. YOUR GOOD UR PROBABILITY OF SUCCESS IS 70% AND FAILURE 30% !!

Me: So sure? You are good right? So what was you success rate the past one year?
DEAR KC, IF I SAY I M VERY GOOD ,PEOPLE WILL SAY I M BOASTING & EXERGERATING LOH....!!
THE FACT I M HERE & SURVIVE FOR LONG, SPEAK VOLUME OF SHARE MARGIN VIABILITY LOH..!!

U HAVE RM 30K AND HAVE THE CHANCE TO BORROW ANOTHER RM 90K....DO U START WITH RM 30K CAPITAL OR DO U START RM 120K(CAPITAL PLUS BORROWING}

THE CORRECT OR PROGRESSIVE MATHS TEACHER WILL TELL U RM 120K LOH..!
THATS WHY MOST BUSINESSMEN with Business Sense CHOSE OPTION 1.

Me: You are talking to the old or the young?
Which businessmen are you referring to?
Are you still confuse with borrowing money to do a business, or MF?
If you are, for heaven sake, try find out the differences before preaching to the young.
AFTER RAIDER PREACHING to u SO LONG TO U THAT SHARE INVESTMENT CAN BE A BUSINESS ON ITS OWN RIGHT...U STILL DON GET I LOH ??
NO WONDER PEOPLE SAY NO BUSINESS SENSE LOH...!!

THE NOT SO BUSINESS MINDED TEACHER WILL SAY Option 2 with RM 30K OR BETTER DON INVEST AT ALL.. PUT All INTO FD LOH...!!
This could be what most layman would advice loh, put all into fd loh...!!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-11 11:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 11, 2018 11:46 AM | Report Abuse
Me: You are talking to the old or the young?
Which businessmen are you referring to?
Are you still confuse with borrowing money to do a business, or MF?
If you are, for heaven sake, try find out the differences before preaching to the young.
AFTER RAIDER PREACHING to u SO LONG TO U THAT SHARE INVESTMENT CAN BE A BUSINESS ON ITS OWN RIGHT...U STILL DON GET I LOH ??
NO WONDER PEOPLE SAY NO BUSINESS SENSE LOH...!!

Me: What kind of BS you are talking about all this time?
for heaven sake, try find out the differences before preaching to the young.

THE NOT SO BUSINESS MINDED TEACHER WILL SAY Option 2 with RM 30K OR BETTER DON INVEST AT ALL.. PUT All INTO FD LOH...!!
This could be what most layman would advice loh, put all into fd loh...!!

Me: Yes, my advice to the young people, knowing them they don't know enough about investment is better to put their money in bank deposit earning 3% to 4% interest a year, rather than simply buying stocks without knowing anything.

Not only advice for the young, but also the old, if they do not have any investment knowledge.

This advice is thousand times better than with 30k, borrow another 90k and punt in the stock market.

Still haven't read my analysis on the return of the broad market for the last 5 years, or you just can't comprehend?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 12:01 | Report Abuse

kc please debate based my full comments, by taking part here & there, u twisted my kind intention which have youngster interest in mind loh..!!

Posted by stockraider > Aug 11, 2018 09:41 AM | Report Abuse X

As raider says MF is just a tool loh....!!

The arguement whether MF is good or bad, is just too side of coin arguement mah, it can be good or can be bad loh...!!

For raider for it to be good, u must be much more competent in terms of investment skill than the average general public, thus MF should be able to give u amplify return loh...!!

People says share margin may cause u amplify losses thus becareful loh.!
RAIDER AGREE LOH...!! THATS WHY RAIDER STRESS ON INVESTMENT SKILL & RISK MANAGEMENT B4 U USE MF LOH...!!

Then why raider recommend to newbies, knowingly they are not so competent leh ??
Yes raider recommend to newbies bcos they are most suitable bcos they are young, not much capital, just starting to learn loh...!!

a)Young...means u got time to build & acquire investment knowledge.
b) Not much capital...means if u lose everything...it is not that much to lose mah..!!

Think this way, ur parent investing alot of monies for u to acquire an oversea general good U degree that easily cost rm 500k to rm 1000k, can u see immediate good return? No loh...but u see it is essential to give u a long term head start in your future good career job advancement loh...!!

Likewise if u invest rm 20k to rm 30k to get MF rm 60k to Rm 100k to get a good headstart in your investment training which is good for your long wealth accumulation...in fact if u r successful, u can build ur lifelong 2nd income source mah...!!

People says u already good why take more risk on MF loh...!!
U NEED TO UNDERSTAND ALREADY GOOD AND ALREADY WEALTHY DIFFERENT LOH..!!
U R GOOD, BUT U R NOT RICH LOH....U NEED TO PUT UR GOOD EFFORT SUCCESSFULLY TO ACQUIRE WEALTH MAH...!!

WHY U NEED TO BORROW ??
PUT IT THIS WAY LOH....IF U R. YOUR GOOD UR PROBABILITY OF SUCCESS IS 70% AND FAILURE 30% !!

U HAVE RM 30K AND HAVE THE CHANCE TO BORROW ANOTHER RM 90K....DO U START WITH RM 30K CAPITAL OR DO U START RM 120K(CAPITAL PLUS BORROWING}

THE CORRECT OR PROGRESSIVE MATHS TEACHER WILL TELL U RM 120K LOH..!
THATS WHY MOST BUSINESSMEN with Business Sense CHOSE OPTION 1.

THE NOT SO BUSINESS MINDED TEACHER WILL SAY Option 2 with RM 30K OR BETTER DON INVEST AT ALL.. PUT All INTO FD LOH...!!

Actually the correct maths answer is Rm 120k ( capital & borrowing loh)

Why young newbies leh ??
This young newbies start with clean sheet mah, so it is easier & better to acquire good investment knowledge b4 they got corrupted loh....!!

Don ask a 55 yrs to do margin mah, it is difficult to train an old dog new tricks mah....!!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-11 12:11 | Report Abuse

raider, your comments with copy-and-paste the whole lot were so messy. Nobody will read with comments on such a long winded comment.

Moreover, taking off part of the comments makes no difference at all.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 12:18 | Report Abuse

The problem of u KC....u see the glass half empty loh...!!
Very negative loh...not wrong....but very negative to approach in life in the route of wealth building loh...!!
U WORRY THE GLASS WILL BE EMPTY COMPLETELY LOH...!!
MOST CONSERVATIVE LAYMAN IS LIKE THAT LOH...!!

Raider see the glass half full....and see it can still be top up further loh...!!
In other words....raider see the glass can never be empty bcos u forever have the option & always able to top it up mah...!!
THESE IS POSITIVE BUSINESS SENSE APPROACH LOH...!!
So if u go on with positive approach u will strike gold or eventually u still strike gold loh...!!

Posted by kcchongnz > Aug 11, 2018 12:11 PM | Report Abuse

raider, your comments with copy-and-paste the whole lot were so messy. Nobody will read with comments on such a long winded comment.

Moreover, taking off part of the comments makes no difference at all.

Posted by Sslee > 2018-08-11 12:22 | Report Abuse

Dear stockraider,
If you are young newbies with 30k no broker will MF another 60K for you to test or learn your skill in share market. I would think even Mr. Koon with 30 millions can never get another 90 millions MF.
Compare to business loan that is different because bank will need to study you business proposal is viable then only they will lend you the money with certain collateral either land or property. Remember when Robert Kuok start of as businessman no local bank want to lend him money and luckily bank of Thailand after study his sugar business lend him some money.
Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-11 12:30 | Report Abuse

SSlee,

not trueloh...nowadays...banks go on program lending...no problem for newbies getting margin with some equity put in loh....!!

Posted by Sslee > Aug 11, 2018 12:22 PM | Report Abuse

Dear stockraider,
If you are young newbies with 30k no broker will MF another 60K for you to test or learn your skill in share market. I would think even Mr. Koon with 30 millions can never get another 90 millions MF.
Compare to business loan that is different because bank will need to study you business proposal is viable then only they will lend you the money with certain collateral either land or property. Remember when Robert Kuok start of as businessman no local bank want to lend him money and luckily bank of Thailand after study his sugar business lend him some money.
Thank you

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-11 12:36 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Aug 11, 2018 12:18 PM | Report Abuse
The problem of u KC....u see the glass half empty loh...!!
Very negative loh...not wrong....but very negative to approach in life in the route of wealth building loh...!!
U WORRY THE GLASS WILL BE EMPTY COMPLETELY LOH...!!
MOST CONSERVATIVE LAYMAN IS LIKE THAT LOH...!!



I don't know how matured you are in investing, and if you can differentiate the big difference confidence, or positive/negative in life and investing.
Well, I am what I am, conservative in investing, try to get-rich-slowly. Yes, as a layman. Dare not claim to be an expert like someone else.

I know many intelligent great multi-million investors and fund managers were very positive in their investment but failed terribly and faded into oblivion.

Bill Ackman investing in Valeant. Bill Gross during the US Subprime housing crisis, Myron Scholes the Nobel price winners and the 5-stars traders in long-term capital, etc etc.

Do what you think you are so good at, but please don't bring the young people to places they are going to die.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2018-08-11 12:43 | Report Abuse

And the conservative, kiasu and kiasi super investors, Seth Klarmen, Howard Marks, Joel Greenblatt, etc. they are making more and more billions for themselves and their investors.