kcchongnz blog
Jaks and Some Twisted arguments on Share Margin Finance (MF) kcchongnz
“Hello, may I speak to Mr. Leveragedboy?”
“Yeah, it’s me”
“My name is Mr. Bad Ass Banker and I am calling to request the amount of $75,000 to be deposited in our account by the end of the week. If you don’t we will have to sell all your (losing) positions to pay off your investment loan”.
Silence on the phone…
I have been dwelling in i3investor for as long as 6 years and have written a total of 327 articles to share with forumers on investment here. Those who are interested may refer to the link below,
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/blidx.jsp
One of my favourite topics has been the argument against the propagation of the use of MF in public forums such as that of i3investor where there are many young and new readers who don’t know much about investing. I opine this propagation as highly irresponsible.
I have just written on recently on “Hot Stock Jaks Resources and Margin Finance” in the link below,
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/167283.jsp
In the above article, I have shown that even a “fantastic” stock with the “incredible profit growth prospect” in the future, Jaks Resources, could have its share price tanked by a whopping 40% from RM1.83 to RM1.10 within a very short period of 6 months! Those who use of MF would have lost a whopping 83.4% with a leverage ratio of 2 to 1. If the share price of Jaks drops further for more than 15%, or 16 sen to 94 sen, the capital of the punter would be completely wiped out and he still must find more money from somewhere to pay the bank.
Yet, we still find many arguments about the advantages of MF and continuous promotion of MF as shown in the comments in my articles.
Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate those comments. It is good to have opposing views and any writer should welcome all opposing views. That is how we can learn and the society can progress. It is no use in “kaki kong, Kaki song”.
However, I would say those arguments of the advantages of MF as listed below are twisted, and not good for the public. I will present my points of view further for discussions.
Twisted MF argument 1
“I have never known any successful businessman who does not use MF.”
Arguably leverage is a key part of our capitalist system, allowing capital to be allocated to those who can use them most productively. Where leverage is used prudently it is hugely beneficial: companies can fund projects by borrowing the money needed to get started.
That is what businessmen do; some borrow money and use it prudently for doing business. Many, if not most businessmen focus on making money in their business. Most of them reinvest their profit back and grow their business. Some may utilize some of the excess profit to invest in other public listed companies by investing in their stocks, passively. I personally do not know and hardly heard of any successful businessmen using MF punting in the stock market. Those very few I know doing so had lost their business and also their pants and the wise ones vow never to do it again.
Who else here know any businessman who is successful, using MF to speculate or invest in the stock market?
Twisted MF argument 2
“I always make a lot of money using MF using my unbeatable rule in investing.”
Really? Is that the norm, or just an outlier, in which case there is no value promoting it? Or is it just a self-serving cognitive bias, which I don’t think anyone cares?
“Bragging is not an attractive trait, but let's be honest. A man who catches a big fish doesn't go home through an alley.” Ann Landers
I have a lot of friends and golf mates who are very well financially, and many of them were successful businessmen too. However, I have never heard of anyone boasting about how much they had made using MF, absolutely none. I do read in public forum such as i3investor, but it is rare, that someone has been making money overall using MF. That is also hearsay, and none has claimed “always”. For those who claimed they “always make a lot of money using MF”, I have great reservation that they could even make a profit after looking the stocks they bought, the promotions they made on those stocks, their published portfolios, and the activities of their trades. Of course, unless they are incredibly good at market timing, which no one can verify.
I do hear from many of my friends that they had lost a lot of money using MF speculating in the stock market, such as those time in 1998, and they vowed they would never touch the stock market again!
How many of your friends who “always” make a lot of money” using MF. Please raise your hands.
Twisted MF argument 3
“Are you so hopeless that you can’t even make more than the 5% MF rate investing in stock? You are not suitable to invest in the stock market then.”
I always ponder those proponents above if they know that the 5% interest rate one has to pay is fixed whatever your outcome in investment is, whereas the return from investment is just an expectation, of which the outcome is full of uncertainties and will only be known in the future.
Table 1 in the Appendix shows the cumulative and annualized returns of the general market in Bursa Malaysia for various periods as shown by the KLCI Index.
The Table shows that none of the periods has a compounded annual return (CAR) of more than 4%. If one invested long-term from 2013 until now, with their performance mimicking the return of the broad market, he would have made positive returns in those periods, albeit small. For those using MF, they would have lost money for all the five periods as the returns were all below the MF cost of 5%, without even considering other costs such as setup fee, roll-over fee, transactions costs etc. Those “ordinary” investors who engaged in the use of MF would likely be struggling to make enough money just to pay bank interest for their MF.
That is the general performance of the broad market, and the return of investors investing in the stock market over those periods. Statistics have shown that about those 80% of individual investors actually under-performed the broad market. What about their performance? How if they engaged in MF?
Twisted MF argument 4 & 5
“Using MF, your gains are amplified when your stocks go up in prices. Then you can borrow more and more and soon you will become multi-millionaire with millions in MF.”
“Margin call is an advantage as it forces the sale of my shares. MF helps to reduce losses as cut-loss is automatically triggered. Once encounter margin call, it is a wakeup call and sell sell sell is the only option! Margin call is a blessing in disguise”
This appears to me some of the most dangerous “teachings” in the stock market. They focus on one direction of the stock market, that one always makes money buying and selling of stocks, and totally disregard the other side. Let us examine using the past one-year movement of the share price of Jaks as shown in Figure 1 below as an example to see if the above statement is always true. I use this as it is a hot stock now many people here know.
Ignoring all borrowing and transaction costs, and assuming one starts with his own capital of RM1m, and a MF of another RM1.0m buying Jaks at RM1.30 a year ago, having the ultra-strong opinion that Jaks, with its excellent profit growth prospect, and “guaranteed profit” from Chinese banks due to its power plant development in Vietnam, with a long gestation period, is a long-term buy. He would have made RM600k in less than two months when its share price went up 30% to RM1.69. He then used another RM600k additional MF. When the share price dropped to RM1.28, his equity would drop to about RM820k, more than 50% below its borrowings, and assume that margin call was triggered. He then treated the margin call as a wake-up call and he “sell, sell sell” all his holding in Jaks, and vowed that he would never look back again. He lost RM176k from his foray in using MF “investing”, supposedly to be a long-term investment in Jaks.
In fact, those using MF and “awoken” by margin call and sold all their shares would have missed out the run from October 2017 to February 2018 when the share price of Jaks went up to RM1.83, or a gain of 40%.
Would MF make you rich by doing the same thing again, by borrowing to buy at RM1.30 in October 2017, add more MF at RM1.83, and then “woke up” by margin calls and sell sell sell the shares at RM1.10?
So, is MF “always’ make one rich? Is margin call a good “wake-up” call? Is margin call a “blessing in disguise”? You judge with this real hot stock example.
Twisted MF argument 6
“If you are not good in investing, whether you use MF or not, you will still lose money.”
I do agree with the above statement. That is why 80% of the stock market players lose money. But the difference is they lose their own money and just suck up, and the loss is much less at RM30k in the above example, compared with MF players of the loss of RM176k. There is no worry of having to find money somewhere to pay the banks after all his money has been lost.
Twisted MF argument 7
“Every young person must learn using MF by doing it when young. It is good to lose some money so that they can become very skilful doing so and get rich quick.”
The younger generation is the future of the country. They should be taught the right things in life; get an education or a skill, a good career, be hard working and honest, climb the career ladder, save money and invest prudently, with the money they can keep there for long time following the “right path” in investing to build long-term wealth slowly, safely but surely. If they lose money well beyond what they can afford using MF, they may not be able to get up for years. After the horrible experience, many of them would just avoid the stock market, just like many of my friends.
There is nothing positive to learn, or getting “skilful”. Like taking drugs, it is bad to tell them to try it, so that next time they know not to die by taking the right drug and dose of drugs.
Conclusions
The stock market is full of uncertainties. It is highly unpredictable and unknowable. It is when MF is used only for speculative purposes and without prudential oversight – to turbo charge returns on both the up and downside – that it becomes dangerous.
Some of you may be really skilful in using MF and have made a lot of money doing it. But please, do no, never propagate and encourage it in the public forums where many cannot handle it.
Below is advice from some real super investors and fund managers in US who have made billions USD for their investors and themselves investing in the stock market,
“I've seen more people fail because of liquor and leverage (in stock investment)—leverage being borrowed money. You really don't need leverage in this world much. If you're smart, you're going to make a lot of money without borrowing.” Warren Buffett
“If you are going to be a very concentrated investor, you should not use leverage. You can’t leverage because you need to live through the downturns and that is incredibly important.” Joel Greenblatt
“The trick of successful investors is to sell when they want to, not when they have to.” Seth Klarmen
KC Chong at ckc14invest@gmail.com
Appendix
Table 1: 5-year return from Bursa
|
Years |
Now |
1 |
2 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
|
Index |
1791 |
1778 |
1684 |
1597 |
1864 |
1788 |
|
Cumulative Return |
0.7% |
6.4% |
12.1% |
-3.9% |
0.2% |
|
|
CAR |
0.7% |
3.1% |
3.9% |
-1.0% |
0.0% |
|
Related Stocks
| Chart | Stock Name | Last | Change | Volume |
|---|
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Discussions
7 people like this. Showing 50 of 256 comments
Btw if u read properly u r in the group b type if u have taken MF loh.....!!
Lets raider explain the consequence of newbies got wipeout loh..!!
If newbies got wipeout his rm 30k capital....it is not the end of the world loh....he may either walk away and don touch share forever and chose a different field of wealth building, if his make out may not be suitable in share investment, he realize his limitation when young is a good thing loh...!!
"Don wait until....when he is in the early 40 to 50s and got families commitment and children and when they have alot of monies to lose...they venture into investment with weak investment make up, they venture to investment loh..!
Or another newbies....who got wipeout, decided to learn from all his mistake he did and stay to make himself a better investor loh...!!
Think positively Actually this newbies undergo a crash course to learn share investment loh..!! For rm 30k....it is not a very expensive lesson loh.....!! "
2018-08-13 12:10
Margin financing is not the cup of tea for newbies or average investors. MF is like taking a bet on your investment good ( you make more money . bad you lose more money )
2018-08-13 12:11
U have stated u follow livermore and wyckoff....raider will advice u not to follow livermore even if u have taken or not taken MF loh...!!
Bcos livermore push too far its limit loh...!!
Raider highly recommend u follow wyckoff...it is sure win in the long run loh....!!
U should take margin when u use follow wyckoff....bcos u seldom use it, U use it when there is a very big opportunity loh...!!
Wyckoff is a surewin for trader, it is just like W Buffet sure win for investor loh....!!
Raider see wyckoff is not really a trader, he is a contraian investor loh....!!
posted by Ayoyo > Aug 13, 2018 11:51 AM | Report Abuse
To answer raider, why am I still adamant on trading despite my early losses of the past, it's my belief system
I believe that,
I wanted to hone my passion (for trading) into a career.. One that gives me total financial independence, away from the corporate world where I'm not answerable to or accountable for anyone
I can be the minority who can trade profitably
I believe it's doable because
markets are not random, but manipulated by humans to their profitable advantage
There are simple uncluttered ways to look into these smart money footprints.. And because human nature never changes, I was fascinated by the trading acumen of Jesse Livermore, Richard Wyckoff who can trade markets from reading the tape
I believe that in order to trade profitably, it's not the system but how I manage my risks, especially when I'm wrong
I believe that I don't have to shoot anything that moves but put probabilities in your favor by trading selectively.. Notice I used probabilities and not certainties
And many other reasons... The point being, it's your belief system and if you want it bad enough, you'll always be guided to resources or mentor who can help pave the path of least resistance to your goals, be it in life or trading
2018-08-13 12:19
Successful speculation is not about follow you, follow me... It's about finding your own edge and sticking to it..
There will always be only one Livermore, just as there is only one Wyckoff.. To mimic them entirely is a sure recipe for disaster... Which is why one will only have muted results by paying and following blindly techniques taught from a guru or master
And I reiterate to newbies, not unless you have sponsorship from your parents, never attempt to start your trading with MF.. Learn the ropes, trade small, most importantly allow yourself to make mistakes and learn from them.. The day you stop losing money is the day you are on the path to profitability
2018-08-13 13:17
ted by Jonathan Keung > Aug 13, 2018 12:11 PM | Report Abuse
Margin financing is not the cup of tea for newbies or average investors
==============
on the contrary, your hero Warren the Buffalo started his sailang and margin career with all in and margin his bankrupt textile company at a very young age.
that is the way to go.....now, old and senile already tells people not to sailang and margin.....why? because now he wants reputation, more than he wants money.
2018-08-13 14:19
Here's a good, honest perspective on the realities of trading for a living
http://www.learntotradethemarket.com/blog/market-will-deceive-you-if-you-let-it
2018-08-13 14:21
George Soros is different...GS has always been more consistent....GS tells with great pride he always pushes his mentees to buy more and take more margin when they have done their home work.
2018-08-13 14:22
The Value Partners guy Cheah Cheng Hye calls it the killer instinct.....you got it or you don't.
He says he got the killer instinct.
2018-08-13 14:25
the war....and the secret of success,....... is in the mind, not in the maths.
how to sailang, how to margin?
in fact, how to make decisions? to be decisive? how to overcome loss aversion?
born? trained?
2018-08-13 16:19
In a way ayoyo is right u can do it slowly loh...but if u have no confidence, no determination and not willing to take up the challenge & risk...whatever u do half heartedly...how could u smell any success, even u tried failed many times leh ??
Yes u can follow ayoyo way, slowly does it...loh...!!
Get screwed many times.... only see little bit of successs loh...!!
If u follow raider way, with burning desire to succeed with accelerated learning, with the use of MF ..your chances of success is faster & more in depth loh...!!
Don be like kc, technically investment fundamental background strong but no confidence, with chicken heart & no confidence even to beat low hurdle benchmark return of 5% pa over 5 yrs loh...!!
If u have chicken heart, even with great skill...u will go no where loh...!!
Posted by Ayoyo > Aug 13, 2018 01:17 PM | Report Abuse
Successful speculation is not about follow you, follow me... It's about finding your own edge and sticking to it..
There will always be only one Livermore, just as there is only one Wyckoff.. To mimic them entirely is a sure recipe for disaster... Which is why one will only have muted results by paying and following blindly techniques taught from a guru or master
And I reiterate to newbies, not unless you have sponsorship from your parents, never attempt to start your trading with MF.. Learn the ropes, trade small, most importantly allow yourself to make mistakes and learn from them.. The day you stop losing money is the day you are on the path to profitability
2018-08-13 21:23
MF is good if you know how to play, me been using for 5 years already
good money
2018-08-13 21:30
Jesse Livermore was a trader who speculated in the market. Was he gambling? Not really. He was an intelligent speculator. However, after reading his story, it was not a happy one. He made money and he lost them again. At one stage, he made so much money and was very extravagant. He owned properties and a yacht. Life could not have been much better. Within a year, he had to sell all these because he speculated in cotton and lost 90% of his wealth. There was a particular period when he was a bankrupt for almost 5 years, in debt. It was a very trying period. He was "helped" by a rich man in New York who invited him and gave him money to trade in the market. It turned out that this rich man was actually using him to camouflage selling shares by his relative at better prices. There were many other interesting stories in the book. When he remade his money, he was wise to set up a trust for his wife and his son. It would be difficult to find a more colourful trader the like of Jesse Livermore. This book was a classic. I bought it for 2 years and have only come around reading it.
What have I learned from this book? The mentality and the excitement of a trader. There are a lot of good lessons from the mistakes and the right things that Jesse Livermore did. He speculated intelligently but he took too much risk.
2018-08-14 16:23
I prefer to pay everything with ca$h. Many stocks I bought on sound basis & valuation declined between 30% - 90% before rising to a profit eg Hwa Tai in '98( sold in '99), Wong in '04( sold in '17), Uchitec in '06(half sold in '17 & '18), WangZng in '05(sold in '17), Huaan in '14-'17(sold in '18) etc.
But this preference could be because the Asian Financial Crisis of '97 reduced the ignorant younger me to negative net worth and I had to dig myself out of that, and to lesser extents in the dot.com bust in '00-'01 and then in '07 - '08.
If I had used MF, would have died many times over. From what I have observed, MF provider wants gambler to trade as frequently as possible, pay as much interest as possible, then get wiped out so new victims can come in.
2018-08-14 19:54
yes....yes......invest a suoer rich man.....
.....strictly use DISPOSABLE CA$H only
2018-08-14 19:55
3iii,the Jesse Livermore book was a classic for me that opened my eyes...the parts on how markets operate and his quotes were priceless although his techniques on tape reading were very vague... Richard Wyckoff and Neil Humphrey's book further expanded on tape reading
The guy who explicitly illustrated it in simplified detail were Tom Williams with his volume spread analysis, a former henchman of the syndicates..
After having traded since I was 18 years old, made and lost lots of money myself, I have to say I'd been wiped out beyond redemption had I used MF during the Asian financial crisis
When you are older and hopefully wiser, you'll realise that trading for profit is akin to running a marathon, you wanna pace yourself comfortably to complete the journey and reach your destination, not sprint in spurts and goes out of breath halfway
2018-08-14 20:06
Posted by dompeilee > Aug 14, 2018 07:54 PM | Report Abuse
I prefer to pay everything with ca$h. Many stocks I bought on sound basis & valuation declined between 30% - 90% before rising to a profit eg Hwa Tai in '98( sold in '99), Wong in '04( sold in '17), Uchitec in '06(half sold in '17 & '18), WangZng in '05(sold in '17), Huaan in '14-'17(sold in '18) etc.
But this preference could be because the Asian Financial Crisis of '97 reduced the ignorant younger me to negative net worth and I had to dig myself out of that, and to lesser extents in the dot.com bust in '00-'01 and then in '07 - '08.
If I had used MF, would have died many times over. From what I have observed, MF provider wants gambler to trade as frequently as possible, pay as much interest as possible, then get wiped out so new victims can come in.
Wise words from a responsible senior citizen, a role model in investing for newbies and the young. Been there, and glad that he had not done that. Otherwise won't be here anymore to propagate some good values in life to the youngsters.
2018-08-14 20:10
Having said that, in my current situation where I believe I've developed a profitable edge, I wouldn't hesitate to take on MF since I have a firm grasp on risk management
And MF is not a bad thing, if one knows how to manage it
2018-08-14 20:11
The main lesson from 'Reminiscences of a Stock Operator' for me is that 'free tips' are always deadly to the listener's capital.
The main lesson from Livermore's own life is that one must always be humble in the face of the ever unpredictable markets - he earned the most he had ever earned shorting the market & covering back on Black Tuesday '29, the Great Crash in US stockmarkets but just 5 years later became bankrupt for unknown reasons(maybe re-entering the market long too early on margin?)
Nowadays before I buy a position, no matter how small, I always stress test myself silently asking myself 'How will you react if the stock declines 50% in the coming months?' If my answer is 'Probably badly' then I don't buy at all.
In 2013 I bought large positions in the ultimate Ben Graham stocks on Bursa - Kluang, Kuchai & SBagan but many warned me they were value traps.
For four years after that, they dropped by 20-30% on paper but I felt nothing. Then in '18, all three rose to nice paper profits(in Kuchai's case almost +100%) but apart from selling a tiny amount of each just for the satisfaction of being proven right, I retain the bulk of all three positions, each showing respectible paper gains.
2018-08-14 20:18
Posted by Ayoyo > Aug 14, 2018 08:11 PM | Report Abuse
Having said that, in my current situation where I believe I've developed a profitable edge, I wouldn't hesitate to take on MF since I have a firm grasp on risk management
And MF is not a bad thing, if one knows how to manage it.
Good qualification, "if one knows how to manage it". Thank you.
Just curious, why haven't you started using it as it gives you amplified return?
Most of the time I lost money in buying and selling stocks when I was young. I have gone through the 1996 Second Board saga, the 1998 financial crisis, the Dotcom bubble and the US subprime crisis, and I didn't lose much as I was without MF. Although I have been doing very well for the past decade in my investment outcome, not using margin finance still remains my golden rule after think the logic of it and going through thorough analysis at different outcome scenarios theoretically.
There are a few seemingly very successful victors who claimed their fantastic return from using MF in i3investor. However detail analysis of what they have written, stocks recommended and their trading history as shown in i3investor, I have not a single confirmation of that, except of the reverse.
Common, if one has to wait for the banks to make margin finance, of which the user would have lost easily more than 50%. How could MF be good under this circumstance when more than hundred of millions could have been evaporated? And why this can happen when the user has been so "experienced" and certainly managing it is not a problem at all?
In real life, I don't know anyone else who has consistently used margin debt and not regretted it in hindsight, including the one mentioned above. I'm actually shocked it is allowed to be promoted by the IBs.
Yes, that is just me. No one should follow me if he doesn't agree.
2018-08-14 20:36
The reason I'm not using MF now is because there is no need for me to..
It's purely down to my technique now... I was a position trader, holding mid term, 1 to 6 months, which admittedly I'm not very good at.. If I had stuck with this method of trading, I'd needed MF to finance the many 'interesting' setups that I'd want in on...
I have finally honed my technique to be able to do short term with very holds (which was my goal to be able to trade like that) , from 3 minutes to usually less than 3 weeks (any longer means I'd been wrong on my original trade)...
And because, I close my positions so swiftly, I'm always in excess cash thus negating the need for MF... I'm 80% cash now (which is earning 2.5% in the brokers trust account) , yet still trading practically every day ,most of time, within contra period or usually, being able to close the position a few days thereafter
I'd love to be able to speculate like fong siling, otb or yourself but I don't have that skillsets to pore thru reports but I believe that I have a better grasp of reading human instinct and herd behavior
2018-08-14 20:52
And KC, looks like our age is pretty similar. I've gone thru every one of those crisis too.. Lost money, yes but luckily, not beyond redemption... It'd been another story if I had used MF considering my iffy record then... In those days, I was still a minion looking for the perfect Sifu to follow... Lost my pants and underwear
2018-08-14 20:55
Ayoyo,
In trading until this age, I have to be very frank with you that you are one of the very rare cases who had made money and still do. And reading through your posts, I believe in you. You must have some special skills in trading. I don't have.
But when teaching in my course, I have been like a worn-out clock keep on repeating telling my course participants not to trade, but to invest like participating in part of a business. This needs time, often in years.
That is because I am academically trained, reading tons of research and together with logics, I don't believe it is a right thing to do to build long-term wealth.
You are an exception, and there aren't many exceptions in this endeavor.
2018-08-14 21:06
Posted by dompeilee > Aug 14, 2018 08:18 PM | Report Abuse
In 2013 I bought large positions in the ultimate Ben Graham stocks on Bursa - Kluang, Kuchai & SBagan but many warned me they were value traps.
For four years after that, they dropped by 20-30% on paper but I felt nothing. Then in '18, all three rose to nice paper profits(in Kuchai's case almost +100%) but apart from selling a tiny amount of each just for the satisfaction of being proven right, I retain the bulk of all three positions, each showing respectible paper gains.
I used Kuchai as an example of a deep value investment, not only in NTA, Graham net-net, it is even a negative enterprise value stock, when I shared it a number of times in i3investor, and also in my online courses. Many people scorned me repeatedly in my other totally unrelated sharing of articles after the drop of 20%-30%. Even a student of mine ridiculed me in public in i3investor about my value investing.
At the end, with 100% gain over 5 years as shown by you, the compounded annual return is very good at 15%, while the broad market is generally flat during this 5 year period as shown my post here.
And imagine, if I were at 50% margin, my stocks would have been sold at a loss of more than 50% and i would never enjoy its recovery.
That is exactly why I don't use MF, that I am able to live through the up as well as the down times. More importantly, I never have to stress about it.
Kuchai is just one of my many examples.
2018-08-14 21:20
KC, I'm humbled that you believe in me but to be honest, I'm not here to get any validation..I'm purely here to kill time when not trading . I have the utmost admiration for some forummers work here, yourself being ranked high in my list..
I believe fundamental investing is the best and most safest way forward.. And because of my style of trade, I'll never get those multi bagger calls as you, otb or others do..
But I make no apologies for it considering my returns this year is >60% and that is the worst in the 4 years that I'm started trading like that
2018-08-14 21:42
Ayoyo, I can see you are a good trader too. Please can you share your methods? I want to learn from you.
2018-08-15 09:45
https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/904652100.jsp
especially my responses
2018-08-16 11:38
Sorhai General Holland still talking so much ah?
have you heard the saying "empty vessel makes the most noise"? Sorhai boy general also no manners, call people all kinds of names and shout all the time. maybe he talk to his parents like that also.
General Holland, why don't write a post to teach us how to turn a few million into a few thousand ah (your self-confessed performance on your favorite stock)? But i hear you lost also your condo, maybe not even make a few thousand woh.
Sorhai raider talk so much cock, after awhile you also tired to listen to him. Reply to him also waste of time, KC. Like trying to clean a piece of shit. You polish how much also, shit is still shit.
2018-08-16 15:01
"RAIDER THINK DIFFERENTLY LOH"
yah, especially when he screw up "RAIDER LOSE BCOS FOLLOW & ASSIST THEM TOO MUCH MAH." blame the machai HAHAHA
KC when make mistake in the market say so and try to learn from it but sorhai General Holland use margin lose money never blame himself, blame the machai for distracting him woh. what a low life leh this general holland.
2018-08-16 15:04
When people want to learn how to lose a few million on one counter, they should listen to you lah, sorhai General Holland.
HAVE YOU BOUGHT YOUR 'GOLD MEDAL' AT PETALING STREET YET, GENERAL HOLLAND? HAHA
2018-08-16 15:05
NOW GENERAL HOLLAND SAY "USING MARGIN IS AN EXCLUSIVE CLUB, WHY DO THEY WANT TO SHARE THEIR TRADE SECRET WITH U LEH ??
SHARE WITH US HOW TO TURN A FEW MILLION INTO FEW THOUSAND OR INTO LOSSES AH, SORHAI?
POINT OF MARGIN IS TO MAKE MONEY NOT TO LOSE A FEW MILLION LIKE YOU LEH. NOT MANY SORHAIS GOT MACHAI LIKE YOU TO BLAME WHEN THEY LOSE LEH...
HOW MANY OF YOUR MACHAI WANT TO JOIN THE SORHAI MARGIN CLUB LIKE YOU LIKE THAT LEH.....
2018-08-16 15:09
STOCKSORHAI TRY TO MISLEAD BY USING FANCY MARKETING SALESMAN ENGLISH LIKE "THE EXCLUSIVE PRIVILEDGE CHOSEN FEW..."
SORHAI GENERAL HOLLAND IS IN "THE EXCLUSIVE PRIVILEDGE CHOSEN FEW" CLUB WHO KENA RAIDED BY HY UNTIL HE BERAK TAK ADA HANDBREAK WOH. YOU WANT TO JOIN AH?
MUCH MORE ECONOMICAL TO PAY LADYBOYS TO GANGBANG YOU, COST MAYBE ONLY THOUSAND PLUS NOT A FEW MILLION LIKE THE SORHAI PAY TO GET ASSRAPED BY HY.
2018-08-16 15:16
STOCKSORHAI SAY "U R REWARDED FOR BEING CONFIDENT, BOLD & INTELLIGENT LOH."
YES, YES LIKE GENERAL HOLLAND WAS. AND THE REWARD IS YOU GET ASSRAPED, JOIN THE EXCLUSIVE CLUB for the privileged few leh Hahahahahaha
2018-08-16 15:20
STILL WAITING FOR YOUR NEXT BUY CALL, boy GENERAL HOLLAND. PLEASE MAKE SURE IT IS BETTER THAN YOUR TP FOR HY RM40++
2018-08-16 15:21
"U WILL BE SURPRISE, A LOT OF PEOPLE SIMPLY BLAME THE BANK LOH...!!"
that's why Stocksorhai say he is different, HE BLAME THE MACHAI!! Hahahaha
2018-08-16 15:31
"ASK YOURSELF LAH, IF U BORROW MONIES TO SIMPLY DO BUSINESS, BUT DON KNOW HOW TO MANAGE, AND MAKE BIG LOSSES, DO U SIMPLY BLAME YOURSELF OR THE BANK LEH ?? "
IF my name is stocksorhai raider aka boy General of Holland, i will BLAME THE MACHAI. tamat cerita.
2018-08-16 15:34
@General Holland you say "If u follow raider way, with burning desire to succeed with accelerated learning, with the use of MF ..your chances of success is faster & more in depth loh...!! "
Lose a few million on one counter will for sure "accelerate" anyone's learning curve loh. Hahaha
Now the only thing "burning" is the your own asshole after kena raided in-depth by the market loh.
2018-08-16 16:05
Posted by stockraider > Aug 10, 2018 05:34 PM | Report Abuse X
Raider says if u start to use margin on today price 10-8-2018 on Hengyuan at Rm 7.55 or evergreen at rm 0.545, raider still see u, will out perform positively over the one yr period, even after paying the 5% financing cost loh....!!
Perhaps u may want to take raider comment as an experiment, maybe measure the result after 1 yr say on 31-8-2019 loh....!!
Gorep doohai never pay attention loh !!,
Raider already make a modest call loh....!!
Of course return is consider 1 yr time but still good n should be able to beat margin of 5% pa over 1 yr .
Posted by gotrep > Aug 16, 2018 03:21 PM | Report Abuse
STILL WAITING FOR YOUR NEXT BUY CALL, boy GENERAL HOLLAND. PLEASE MAKE SURE IT IS BETTER THAN YOUR TP FOR HY RM40++
2018-08-16 16:34
Trying to twist and turn the words like the SNAKE you are, General Holland. Some people familiar already know how dishonest you can be.
In case you are too stupid to follow, this is NOT about your machai losing, it's about YOU loh ie "RAIDER LOSE BCOS FOLLOW & ASSIST THEM TOO MUCH MAH".
LISTEN to your own advice & start taking responsibility when you lose instead of BLAMING THE MACHAI as if they distracted you and caused your losses. Like you lost because you cared for them so much, boo hoo hoo, make me want to cry.
Like i said, a LOWLIFE.
Go get your gold medal, sorhai General of Holland with the burning asshole.
2018-08-16 18:24
Pls don talk cock so much....all info documented....what to twist leh ??
Anyhow...if u don believe...u no need to believe mah....!!
Raider is strict & brave loh....!!
Only for those who take responsibility & believe may explore this wealth machine loh & Unfortunately gotrep u r not the chosen one loh....!!
2018-08-16 21:32
kg Cheng comes from an environment where few people even buys shares on their own account let alone margin account
2018-08-18 23:18
qqq just want to point out kc chong too conservative & don have a balance progressive view, as a result this is the weakness loh..!!...but kena tembak by kc..with long list of stinging attack loh...!!
Posted by qqq3 > Aug 18, 2018 11:18 PM | Report Abuse
kg Cheng comes from an environment where few people even buys shares on their own account let alone margin account
Yes, KC Chong does come from environment completely opposite of yours with the following characteristics.
1) KC Chong lives in an egalitarian society. They stand tall. They don't PLP.
2) KC Chong and his circle of friends respect those who have have positively contributed to the society, but despise those who extract values from the society through manipulation, lies and deceits.
3) The people in KC Chong environment make honest living through their hard work,or business, and at the same time contributing positively to the society, without resorting to cheating, manipulation and deceits.
4) KC Chong's friends don't do all these; tell lies, boast about nothing good, exaggerate their investment outcome, their wealth, and using rich man's backside as the skin of his face, etc.
5) KC Chong lives in an environment where nobody talks nonsense, rubbish, demeaning others who genuinely share something good to the society.
2018-08-19 00:04
kcchong, ur response is uncalled for...on me as well as qqq...loh..!
What wrong did qqq did on u, until u attack him personally with long a long list leh ??
I m surprise u cannot control ur emotion when i just highlight your over reaction loh...!!
Posted by kcchongnz > Aug 19, 2018 12:11 AM | Report Abuse
Stockraider, good on you. Carry on your MF. Nobody gives you a damn.
But just because we have different view in MF, you keep on harping on this? And you are right and everybody is wrong?
And because of MF, qqq is your great friend now? Good on you!
Sorry, I have no time to argue with you about MF. It is a waste of time.
2018-08-19 00:17
Posted by stockraider > Aug 19, 2018 12:17 AM | Report Abuse
kcchong, ur response is uncalled for...on me as well as qqq...loh..!
What wrong did qqq did on u, until u attack him personally with long a long list leh ??
I m surprise u cannot control ur emotion when i just highlight your over reaction loh...!!
Over-reaction, me?
My comments just to tell him (not you) the environment I am in,and only with my name in it.
So how did I "attacked" someone "personally"?
If you want to do what this qqq do each time I share an article in i3investor, you can read his comments, the comments from qqq, stockmanny, Brights?, Desa, etc.
Anyway, I don't think you have won an argument on MF. If you insist on carry on harping on it, go pick someone else. I have no interest to entangle with you. A sheer waste of time.
2018-08-19 00:28
Please read properly & carefully what u say...u have hidden agenda loh...!!
Yes, KC Chong does come from environment completely opposite of yours with the following characteristics.
1) KC Chong lives in an egalitarian society. They stand tall. They don't PLP.
2) KC Chong and his circle of friends respect those who have have positively contributed to the society, but despise those who extract values from the society through manipulation, lies and deceits.
3) The people in KC Chong environment make honest living through their hard work,or business, and at the same time contributing positively to the society, without resorting to cheating, manipulation and deceits.
4) KC Chong's friends don't do all these; tell lies, boast about nothing good, exaggerate their investment outcome, their wealth, and using rich man's backside as the skin of his face, etc.
5) KC Chong lives in an environment where nobody talks nonsense, rubbish, demeaning others who genuinely share something good to the society.
2018-08-19 00:30
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This book is the result of the author's many years of experience and observation throughout his 26 years in the stockbroking industry. It was written for general public to learn to invest based on facts and not on fantasies or hearsay....
stockraider
Lets me explain why raider promote MF strongly to the newbies loh...!
As u all know MF is just a tools that magnify return, if u r good...it will magnify ur return loh...If u r good it will help u to build wealth mah....!!
For the newbies it is very suitable mah....1st they start with a clean slate, they have time & can afford to lose and 3rd they have not much too lose loh....!!
For newbies based on raider formula they are either going to wipeout or they are going to be very rich if they use margin loh...!!
Lets raider explain the consequence of newbies got wipeout loh..!!
If newbies got wipeout his rm 30k capital....it is not the end of the world loh....he may either walk away and don touch share forever and chose a different field of wealth building, if his make out may not be suitable in share investment, he realize his limitation when young is a good thing loh...!!
Don wait until....when he is in the early 40 to 50s and got families commitment and children and when they have alot of monies to lose...they venture into investment with weak investment make up, they venture to investment loh..!
Or another newbies....who got wipeout, decided to learn from all his mistake he did and stay to make himself a better investor loh...!!
Think positively Actually this newbies undergo a crash course to learn share investment loh..!! For rm 30k....it is not a very expensive lesson loh.....!!
As for the winners, it is confirm their make up is suitable for a lifelong wealth building....they will make great investor since they start young and master art of margin investing loh....!!
2018-08-13 12:07