Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:00 | Report Abuse

For investment, the future is essentially something to be guarded against rather than to be profited from. If the future brings improvement, so much the better; but investment as such cannot be founded in any important degree upon the expectation of improvement.

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:00 | Report Abuse

Speculation, on the other hand, may always properly – and often soundly – derive its basis and its justification from prospective developments that differ from past performances.

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:01 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:01 | Report Abuse

GAMBLING: represents the creation of risks not previously existing – e.g. race-track betting.

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:22 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:28 | Report Abuse

Investment Policies (Based on Benjamin Graham)

Summary of Investment Policies

A. INVESTMENT FOR FIXED INCOME:
US Savings Bonds (FDs or Amanah Sahams for Malaysians)

B. INVESTMENT FOR INCOME, MODERATE LONG-TERM APPRECIATION AND PROTECTION AGAINST INFLATION:
(1) INVESTMENT FUNDS bought at reasonable price.
(2) Diversified list of primary common stocks (BLUE CHIPS) bought at reasonable price.

C. INVESTMENT CHIEFLY FOR PROFIT: 4 approaches are opened to both the small and the large investors:
(1) Representative common stocks bought when the MARKET level is clearly LOW.
(2) GROWTH STOCKS, when these can be obtained at reasonable prices in relation to actual accomplishment – GROWTH INVESTING.
(3) Purchase of securities selling well BELOW INTRINSIC VALUE – VALUE INVESTING.
(4) Purchase of WELL-SECURED PRIVILEGED SENIOR ISSUES (bonds and preferred shares).
(5) SPECIAL SITUATIONS: Mergers, arbitrages, cash pay-outs.

D. SPECULATION:
(1) Buying stock in new or virtually new ventures (IPOs) .
(2) TRADING in the market.
(3) Purchase of "GROWTH STOCKS" at GENEROUS PRICES.


_______________


For DEFENSIVE INVESTORS: Portfolio includes A & B
(A: Cash, FDs, Bonds B: Mutual funds, Blue chips)

For ENTERPRISING INVESTORS: Portfolio includes A & B & C
(C: Buy in Low Market, Buy Growth stocks at fair value, Buy value stocks i.e. bargains, High grade bonds and preferred shares, Arbitrages)

For SPECULATORS: Portfolio includes D
(Should set aside a sum for this separate from their money in investing.)

________________
________________


Types of Investors

Graham felt that individual investors fell into two camps : "defensive" investors and "aggressive" or "enterprising" investors.

These two groups are distinguished not by the amount of risk they are willing to take, but rather by the amount of "intelligent effort" they are "willing and able to bring to bear on the task."

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:37 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 06:42 | Report Abuse

Young investors (his example--a sharp young executive interested in finance) who are as yet unfamiliar and inexperienced with investing, in the eyes of Benjamin Graham should be a defensive investor.

Given the young age of Jon Choivo, is he a defensive or aggressive investor? Having read his postings, he falls into the aggressive group. Will he be the next Warren Buffett? Who knows. He is knowledgeable and hardworking. Not so sure of his temperament in investing yet.

Good luck in this long journey of investing.




By the way, your friend, the active trader, who thinks he is financially free with $750,000 networth, please ask him to think again!

Posted by 3iii > 2018-09-02 07:25 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2018-09-02 08:22 | Report Abuse

Dear Jon,
No wonder people call you Jon (Long winded) for your age and intelligent people want you to take out 20% to do your intelligent speculating adventureous investment.
Thank you

Posted by newbie911 > 2018-09-02 08:32 | Report Abuse

Skpress looks nice, why u still hesitate to enter?

Posted by FamousAmos > 2018-09-02 08:36 | Report Abuse

Another nerdy and lengthy article

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 08:42 | Report Abuse

Another article. Gooding. Of course i3 is built to hoot stock lo, what else

Posted by Icon8888 > 2018-09-02 09:04 | Report Abuse

I bought some already at 120+. I am adventurous

newbie911 Skpress looks nice, why u still hesitate to enter?
02/09/2018 08:32

Posted by Icon8888 > 2018-09-02 09:06 | Report Abuse

Compared to Jon Lohsoh, AlexTM is more street wise. Both are likeable young people

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 09:09 | Report Abuse

Haha.. Variety of ppl makes the world less bored.

Sian lo, Sunday judi table no open...

Posted by Icon8888 > 2018-09-02 09:12 | Report Abuse

told you already, life no meaning if quit i3

lucky you withdrew resignation

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 09:14 | Report Abuse

I got gooding plan d... Morning punt i3, night punt u.s...fuiyo..

Posted by Icon8888 > 2018-09-02 09:15 | Report Abuse

just curious, US got i3 type forum or not ? I want to join if got

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 09:17 | Report Abuse

Hmm... Can't find one currently... At night time I play position trade based on TA and little FA only... After placed order then go to sleep... Wake up morning then see got hit my stop loss or my target profit... Hehe..

Posted by Icon8888 > 2018-09-02 09:19 | Report Abuse

LOL Jon Lohsoh will be horrified when he read this ....

Posted by Alex™ > Sep 2, 2018 09:17 AM | Report Abuse

... After placed order then go to sleep... Wake up morning then see got hit my stop loss or my target profit... Hehe..

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 09:21 | Report Abuse

Haha... Wake up and find position goes down bypassing stop loss, and margin call incoming...

Posted by FamousAmos > 2018-09-02 09:30 | Report Abuse

Lol John Lohsoh will be writing another lecture note soon.

Posted by cheoky > 2018-09-02 09:45 | Report Abuse

Really admire Jon. Broad reading resulting in wat so called 3-4 level thinking. U will be damn good as time goes on. And you willing to stick to your own judgement. That is valuable.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-09-02 09:54 | Report Abuse

Choiiiiii,

Hahahaha. Well good luck. I see also scared tbh hahaha. What do you use? Interactive brokers?

====
Alex™ Hmm... Can't find one currently... At night time I play position trade based on TA and little FA only... After placed order then go to sleep... Wake up morning then see got hit my stop loss or my target profit... Hehe..
02/09/2018 09:17

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-09-02 10:04 | Report Abuse

Petronm is cheaper and I am more sure. So is osk, trop, etc etc.

But skp, has a few things that are very attractive. And based on gut feeling, it's actually not bad. Oh well, if I miss the boat, I miss the boat.

====

Posted by newbie911 > Sep 2, 2018 08:32 AM | Report Abuse

Skpress looks nice, why u still hesitate to enter?

Posted by Outliar > 2018-09-02 11:34 | Report Abuse

I thought you still had Parkson in your portfolio, still think its a decent turnaround and net asset play?

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-09-02 11:58 | Report Abuse

Keep track on yr record for 3 to 5 years and then u evaluate yrself.

2017 less than 20% return (whats yr exact return? 15%-18%?)
2018
2019
2020

This could b more effective way to measure yr inv theory n method.

Abiility to write good book theories with good england may or maynot translate into good return...at the end of the still go back to the figures.

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-09-02 12:00 | Report Abuse

Otb sifu has a proven track records here for the past 4 to 5 years while i believe his actual returns could be even much higher than that.

Posted by r18 > 2018-09-02 12:06 | Report Abuse

Stock Pick 2018 - Jon Choivo (Tag: SP2018)
https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/99220.jsp

Posted by Apabagus > 2018-09-02 12:07 | Report Abuse

No one attended 3iii's college lectures.Not he has to hijack choivo's classroom to preach.Malu or not 3iii?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-09-02 12:18 | Report Abuse

IT IS VERY SIMPLE LOH....TO TRACK DISHONEST 3iii JUST MARK THESE SHARE PRICES & REVIEW IT AT THE END OF THE YR 2018 LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > Sep 1, 2018 02:11 PM | Report Abuse X

these are past growth stock, now saturated loh....it is overvalue loh...if u buy 10 yrs ago ....then u get good return...but if u buy now u r looking for stagnation....bcos it is overvalue now loh...!!

The correct approach is start looking for new growth stock mah...!!

Never overpay loh.....!!

Posted by 3iii > Sep 1, 2018 01:58 PM | Report Abuse

Hartalega Holdings Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 7.10
9.1.2009 0.42 b
25.8.2018 23.41 b

Press Metal Aluminium Holdings Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 4.98
09.1.2009 0.25 b
25.8.2018 18.78 b

Top Glove Corp Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 11.14
09.1.2009 1.1 b
25.8.2018 13.83 b

Hap Seng Consolidated Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 9.98
09.1.2009 1.33 b
25.8.2018 24.5 b

Public Bank Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 25.12
09.1.2009 31.33 b
25.8.2018 96.67 b

Nestle (M) Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 147.00
09.1.2009 6.39 b
25.8.2018 34.59 b

Tenaga Nasional Bhd
Market Cap share price rm 15.68
09.1.2009 27.09 b
25.8.2018 89.15 b

Fraser & Neave
Market Cap share price rm 38.00
09.1.2009 3.19 b
25.8.2018 14.02 b

Petronas Dagangan
Market Cap share price rm 27.2
09.1.2009 7.25 b
25.8.2018 26.51 b

Petronas Gas
Market Cap rm 18.70
09.1.2009 19.49 b
25.8.2018 36.6 b

I own 8 of these 10 stocks in my portfolio for many years.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-09-02 13:05 | Report Abuse

I own 8 of these 10 stocks in my portfolio for many years.

really meh? are u a mutual fund?

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 13:10 | Report Abuse

Lol

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 13:11 | Report Abuse

Apa takut... Hoot nia...

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 13:11 | Report Abuse

If takut then go play dota better

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-09-02 13:21 | Report Abuse

As always charles hits on the dot.

That is what i'm doing. I told myself this.

I will do this for 10 years, reading annual reports, tracking my returns, running my fund etc. If after 10 years, i cannot show to myself that i cant beat the market comfortably, to an extent where i can say i'm good.

I will close the fund, return all the money, and forget about being a fund manager.

I will move most of money to indexes, other than some where i think is really good companies.

And just spend the rest of time doing what i really enjoy. I prefer reading good books to annual reports. And i definitely do enjoy reading annual reports.



====
CharlesT Keep track on yr record for 3 to 5 years and then u evaluate yrself.

2017 less than 20% return (whats yr exact return? 15%-18%?)
2018
2019
2020

This could b more effective way to measure yr inv theory n method.

Abiility to write good book theories with good england may or maynot translate into good return...at the end of the still go back to the figures.
02/09/2018 11:58

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-09-02 13:24 | Report Abuse

Yeah, i sold, maybe i am stupid.

The interesting thing about Parkson, is that this is a RM400 million company, handling roughly RM4 billion in revenue. That is insane, if they can get even 3% net profit margin, it would be incredible profits.

However, i think people are mistaken in how hard it is to get 3%. Amazon, in its entire history, i doubt, have made even USD10 billion for its retail division. It has absolutely decimated the entire industry and the margins of everyone, but it has not made much money from there. And this is a close to 1 trillion dollar company.

Parkson is cheap, quite cheap. But they are probably better net asset plays. If it turnarounds and become profitable, which i really don't know how, it will become a fantastic investment returns wise. But i find it really hard to see.

The right move for parkson now, is to basically liquidate everything that is no profitable and give it back via a dividend.

But this is william chengs baby, and something he has put his life into building, i dont think he will do that, but will try to keep it alive, to the monetary detriment of shareholders (including himself).

So i really really dont know what do to here. but i wouldnt mind buying 1-2% when its down to like 40 sen or something. But my cash not that much, so its needs to stay at that price for long time while i build up more important positions.

but the fact i am saying they are more important positions while, at the same time saying i will not put all my money in those positions, but put them in parkson, should be a warning that i am not fully logical and rational. And i do not truly understand all my investments.


==
Outliar I thought you still had Parkson in your portfolio, still think its a decent turnaround and net asset play?
02/09/2018 11:34

Posted by godhand > 2018-09-02 13:25 | Report Abuse

I have different understanding from u. To me Investing means to bank on the company future. And there is no right or wrong in future because u can’t predict the future. Businesses will disrupt businesses its a never ending cycle. There is no business that will succeed 100% also. The max u can lose is only 100% but there is no limit to how much u will win. It’s infinity. So in context to your article, there is no sure win or so called safe investment. Time and correct projection of the future are the only essence in investing. The rest it’s not investing, it’s called gambling and speculating

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-09-02 13:29 | Report Abuse

The rest it’s not investing, it’s called gambling and speculating........


agrees,,,,,on the other hand nothing wrong with speculations and trading.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-09-02 13:29 | Report Abuse

if u bank on company future....u need to undertand the co prospects and business operations like insiders....then only bank mah...!!

Posted by godhand > Sep 2, 2018 01:25 PM | Report Abuse

I have different understanding from u. To me Investing means to bank on the company future. And there is no right or wrong in future because u can’t predict the future. Businesses will disrupt businesses its a never ending cycle. There is no business that will succeed 100% also. The max u can lose is only 100% but there is no limit to how much u will win. It’s infinity. So in context to your article, there is no sure win or so called safe investment. Time and correct projection of the future are the only essence in investing. The rest it’s not investing, it’s called gambling and speculating

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 13:31 | Report Abuse

assumption

1) stock market goes up forever
2) if only you decide it right, you'll get rewarded (against random walk theory)

truth

1) stock market goes up forever until this thesis is proven wrong (yet to be)
2) each investment decision is probabilistic in nature. If sure win, i also want

so pls follow alex do trading. Just ditch the investment. Why leh, because investment is so bored! hehe

Posted by godhand > 2018-09-02 13:33 | Report Abuse

Apple bled for decades before they explode due to their dominance in their innovation. If you are a shareholder how much do u think your investment amplifies. U can buy 100 start ups like apple 40 years ago. But if only one show the result like apple u are already a winner.

So what does this tell you? U need to have the ability to endure pain for a very long period of time and u need to trust Steve job and his team and their products. I know u will say Malaysia market is small not like us. But how do u know for a fact that no one company will make it internationally in the future? How can u be so sure

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 13:34 | Report Abuse

why ur uncle koon no allow comment? he only allow one way communication, i.e., speaking at us?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-09-02 13:38 | Report Abuse

investment is invest....!!

speculation is speculation mah....!!

Gambling is gambling loh....!!

Do not mix loh....!!

If u buy share, need to decide investment or speculation loh....!!

If u feel boring better go genting to gamble loh...stock mkt gambling the odds of success is much lower and the losses could be bigger mah...!!

Posted by Alex™ > Sep 2, 2018 01:31 PM | Report Abuse

assumption

1) stock market goes up forever
2) if only you decide it right, you'll get rewarded (against random walk theory)

truth

1) stock market goes up forever until this thesis is proven wrong (yet to be)
2) each investment decision is probabilistic in nature. If sure win, i also want

so pls follow alex do trading. Just ditch the investment. Why leh, because investment is so bored! hehe

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-09-02 13:43 | Report Abuse

and yes, if steve job no succeed, we don't have success stories today to tell...

Posted by godhand > Sep 2, 2018 01:33 PM | Report Abuse
Apple bled for decades before they explode due to their dominance in their innovation. If you are a shareholder how much do u think your investment amplifies. U can buy 100 start ups like apple 40 years ago. But if only one show the result like apple u are already a winner.

So what does this tell you? U need to have the ability to endure pain for a very long period of time and u need to trust Steve job and his team and their products. I know u will say Malaysia market is small not like us. But how do u know for a fact that no one company will make it internationally in the future? How can u be so sure

Posted by godhand > 2018-09-02 13:45 | Report Abuse

To me there’s a very fine line that distinguish speculation from investing and It’s trust. Why? Let’s say u know nothing about a company revenue in future all you know is that the management has the best committed young bloods selling a new service or products that’s wasn’t there before and trying to penetrate the market and u believe in what they do. It may sound like speculating because u don’t have the numbers. But this is what I call investing.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2018-09-02 13:47 | Report Abuse

this forum, 99% of the transactions are for trading/ speculations....

yet 99% of the time, people write as if speculating/ trading is wrong......

what the fuck

Posted by stockraider > 2018-09-02 13:57 | Report Abuse

Not true loh....!!

the stats are as follows loh;

1. investment 20%
2. speculation 35%
3 trading 45%

Not 99% lah....!!

Posted by stockmanmy > Sep 2, 2018 01:47 PM | Report Abuse

this forum, 99% of the transactions are for trading/ speculations....

yet 99% of the time, people write as if speculating/ trading is wrong......

what the fuck