Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-01-05 09:17 | Report Abuse

Long term hold of companies with moat not the only way to make it in bursa

I have busy reading lately. John Neff , Joel Greenblatt, Seth Klarman (margin of safety) , David dreman etc all churn their portfolio every few years (some even happy to let go after few months when profitable)

So it is not true that moat based Buffett style super Long term investing is the only way to do it

Don't believe me ? Read their books

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 09:25 | Report Abuse

Check out this story: The New Challenge For Buy-And-Hold Investing http://flip.it/QOQVUe from Flipboard.


http://flip.it/QOQVUe

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 09:32 | Report Abuse

I think that evolution will increase rapidly as the friendly financial market conditions of the past decade become much more challenging.

busting the myth of

Buy stocks of great companies and hold them
Be a long-term investor
It’s time in the market, not timing the market
Own the whole market
Ride out the bumps
20% declines in stock prices are healthy

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 09:35 | Report Abuse

there is only one life but many alternatives.

winner become king
losers become prisoners.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-01-05 09:49 | Report Abuse

qqq3 I am confused. You praise Mr Long method but refer us to an article that discourage long term hold.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 09:56 | Report Abuse

I think mr long way is the way to invest.....to participate in growth of great companies.....it is the reason there is a Bursa....EPF have no problem in keeping this great share unless there are other developments.


me? I am a trader....

I can only write about Mr Long, I cannot be Mr Long......

Posted by Haw Liao > 2019-01-05 09:58 | Report Abuse

bursa only handful can invest, too many crooks running the show...

that why i only trade, buy low hopefully can sell higher...to a greater fool willing to chase high

lol

Posted by Haw Liao > 2019-01-05 09:59 | Report Abuse

don't forget we are all fools when u push the buy button...

sell to a greater fool

hehe

Posted by Up_down > 2019-01-05 10:03 | Report Abuse

3i has finally bumped into a person who attained the similar level with him. Both is very unique and rare in our investment community. We can hardly find them in surrounding. People nowadays focus more in short term profit due to short cyclical nature of the business. Many companies in Bursa are unable to perform well in long term. Moat companies are traded in high 'fair' prices. It's not they don't want to keep for long term but being forced by unfavorable conditions of limited supply.

Newsbies are certainly benefited most from the conversation as they are remained fresh in their investment philosophy. They prone to accept new ideas and strategies but greedy in short term profit clouded their mind as majority of the community favor short term results.

The life of a trader or value trader is rather difficult in the initial stages. They have to suffer a lot in terms of monetary and mentally while acquiring experience. No short cut other than keep aligning our thinking to the market requirements. Market is our clients. We always serve their needs and satisfaction.

Posted by Haw Liao > 2019-01-05 10:08 | Report Abuse

trading can be simple, if u know what u doing...

buy low sell high...provided theres enough fools to buy from u

read the market and don't be too greedy

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 10:37 | Report Abuse

don't hold stocks a lot when they are very high,chances u can lose more than u can make.when low time u hold is much safer

Posted by Up_down > 2019-01-05 10:44 | Report Abuse

Yeah. It’s easy to trade once you get used to it through acceptance of our mistakes and learning experiences in the process. It may take years to endure such setbacks. Life becomes easy once we accept our mistakes gracefully in trading.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-01-05 10:50 | Report Abuse

you start every discussion with confrontation

that is why I said you are negative


Posted by i3lurker > Jan 5, 2019 10:02 AM | Report Abuse

you can call it negative again....but you had been here how long and yet dun understand qqq3's character?

and that's because you dun respect him at all. He is a short term trader who respects a good fundamental play. Let him enjoy himself. To each his own.

Posted by Icon8888 > Jan 5, 2019 09:49 AM | Report Abuse
qqq3 I am confused. You praise Mr Long method but refer us to an article that discourage long term hold.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-05 10:51 | Report Abuse

The all in investment strategy advocated by Ben Graham, Mr Market and Margin of safety actually is applicable to everything u do on shares loh....!!

Whether u r an investor, speculator or trader the same principle apply loh....!!

Mastering this principle u should be able to do well in stock market loh..!!

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 10:56 | Report Abuse

moneykjtwin,today u woke up so early? how's ur butt business last nite? hehe

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-01-05 10:59 | Report Abuse

Mr Long's method might work, but not the only way to do it

many prominent investors do not hold long term (they churn their portfolio regularly) but still can be very successful

I am writing an article based on the books I read recently (written by those famous investors)

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-05 11:05 | Report Abuse

ADVERTISEMENT:

General Raider ask what the fark of bear mkt & the end of the world thing loh....??

U just focus on sapnrg what is the fair value at rm 0.29 can buy or not ??
Ans Can buy loh.....!! If not why PNB sailang on Sapnrg Rights leh ??
For us just buy loh...!! Sure can go up loh...!!

But if up to Rm 0.325 or 10% should i sell & take profit leh ??
Ans What the fark sell & make tiny 10% ah ?? If PNB can sailang on sapnrg u still want tiny 10% meh ??
U go for the winner say around minimum gain of 30% or more mah...!!

So don be a pondan....just buy...buy...buy & buy loh...!!
This is the safest stock u can get loh....!!

Posted by godhand > 2019-01-05 11:07 | Report Abuse

Posted by 10154899906070843 > Jan 4, 2019 10:39 PM | Report Abuse

Godhand, if growing from 300 million revebue per quarter to 900 million revenue is not a sign of a growing moat, please do describe to me a company that does exactly what QL is doing and does it better. Market leaders generally have a moat. And please don't simplify moats to just brand recognition, management performance can be a moat (Warren), size can be a moat, first adopters can be a moat.

Anyway, I'll make it easier for you. Find me an Asian company in this part of the world that competes directly just with ql lifestock farming division at 1.9 billion in revenue ( animal feed raw material production, day old chicken and broilers) and does it better than ql resources.

Go ahead. I'll pay you your research fees and eat my hat.

You would recognize a moat if it bit you in the ass(et).


_____________________________________________

It is call growing not moat. Moat is something that is very very hard to get close to or impossible to attack. Think of it this way, when the castle is surrounded with deep trench filled with water, how does the land unit attack the castle?

Do you think its impossible to replicate ql egg business?? To me its a no.

and one more thing i have to strongly disagree with you brand is everything. Management will die off, brand will stay there forever. If the brand is tie to a person, the company is bound to die. Example = Apple

Posted by Up_down > 2019-01-05 11:12 | Report Abuse

BG’s strategy is more focused in timing of snapping up undervalued or margin of stocks. Newbies have to do more trades to realize the term ‘undervalued ‘. It’s all about relativity and much dependent on market conditions (especially market liquidity) to realize the potential of undervalued.

Posted by stockraider > Jan 5, 2019 10:51 AM | Report Abuse

The all in investment strategy advocated by Ben Graham, Mr Market and Margin of safety actually is applicable to everything u do on shares loh....!!

Whether u r an investor, speculator or trader the same principle apply loh....!!

Mastering this principle u should be able to do well in stock market loh..!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-05 11:17 | Report Abuse

IF U WANT FAST MONIES USE THIS PRINCIPLE OF MARGIN OF SAFETY APPLY IT TO UP N COMING MOMENTUM STOCK, WHERE IT STILL HAVE VERY BIG DISCOUNT AFTER ITS PRICE HAS CRASH & CONSOLIDATED FOR SOMETIME LOH...!!


Posted by Up_down > Jan 5, 2019 11:12 AM | Report Abuse

BG’s strategy is more focused in timing of snapping up undervalued or margin of stocks. Newbies have to do more trades to realize the term ‘undervalued ‘. It’s all about relativity and much dependent on market conditions (especially market liquidity) to realize the potential of undervalued.

Posted by stockraider > Jan 5, 2019 10:51 AM | Report Abuse

The all in investment strategy advocated by Ben Graham, Mr Market and Margin of safety actually is applicable to everything u do on shares loh....!!

Whether u r an investor, speculator or trader the same principle apply loh....!!

Mastering this principle u should be able to do well in stock market loh..!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-05 11:38 | Report Abuse

U NEED TO UNDERSTAND MARGIN OF SAFETY & GOOD STOCK LOH....!!

NESTLE RM 145.30 IS A VERY GOOD STOCK BUT NO MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...!!

INSAS RM 0.67 GRUESOME STOCK WITH BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY MAH...!!

U CHASE STOCK WITH BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY WHEN IT GOT MOMENTUM LOH..!!

Posted by i3lurker > Jan 5, 2019 11:27 AM | Report Abuse

that means it was a poor and weak stock to begin with:-

its like buying the following companies:-

Apple
Jaks
VS

after it had crashed and has a margin of safety.... you say it is a good stock?

for Jaks and VS, it was margin call, some say must buy margin call crashed stock. That's not true coz sec firms always give the option to clients to select the stock to crash. The client will always select the most lousy stock to crash it; just like KYY selected Jaks to crash coz he perceived it to be the weakest in his portfolio.


Posted by stockraider > Jan 5, 2019 11:17 AM | Report Abuse
IF U WANT FAST MONIES USE THIS PRINCIPLE OF MARGIN OF SAFETY APPLY IT TO UP N COMING MOMENTUM STOCK, WHERE IT STILL HAVE VERY BIG DISCOUNT AFTER ITS PRICE HAS CRASH & CONSOLIDATED FOR SOMETIME LOH...!!

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 11:47 | Report Abuse

same like hengyuan 19.00 where got margin of safety,at least at 5.00 got some safety.margin of safety also depended on the share price,if too high no safety net

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-05 11:53 | Report Abuse

IF IT IS AT RM 19.00 PEOPLE START TO THINK IT IS NESTLE TYPE OF STOCK MAH.....!!

JUST LIKE QL NOW MORE THAN RM 10 BILLION PEOPLE START TO THINK IT IS A GROWTH STOCK WITH MOAT ON SAME LEAGUE LIKE NESTLE LOH...!!

Posted by apolloang > Jan 5, 2019 11:47 AM | Report Abuse

same like hengyuan 19.00 where got margin of safety,at least at 5.00 got some safety.margin of safety also depended on the share price,if too high no safety net

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 11:56 | Report Abuse

QL will be another padini if profit fall

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-05 11:58 | Report Abuse

PADINI PAYS GOOD DIV...MEANING THEIR CASHFLOW CAN AFFORD TO PAY & SHARING LOH..!!

QL DAMN STINGY LOH...!! DIV WORSE THAN INSAS MAH...!!

Posted by apolloang > Jan 5, 2019 11:56 AM | Report Abuse

QL will be another padini if profit fall

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 12:02 | Report Abuse

I bought only 4,000 shares at 3.90 in 2001.at that time QL still in 2nd board.if I hold until now i'll make more than 500k,i sold off only 4.20.....last time very illiquid cos low cap now market cap so huge

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2019-01-05 12:07 | Report Abuse

True.

Do note seth klarman also said that, buffet is probably a better judge of business than he is. Although to be honest, both their levels are so high, i cannot even tell if there is a difference.

I think good investors, all have their own philosophy, that must flow from value investing, because all intelligent investing is really value investing.

Its just that your perspective on the intrinsic value and how you value it is
different. Everyone wants to pay significant less than their derived intrinsic value.

Not to mention, we all have our quirks.

Having said that, the trend does point towards people who held for an extremely long time.

Fidelity had done a study as to which accounts had done the best at Fidelity. And what they found was that they were the accounts of people who forgot they had an account at Fidelity.

Of course one must then ask who did these participants consist of? Were they all intelligent investors or traders? I doubt it. However, most people also consider themselves intelligent investors/traders despite the statistic clearly showing that isn't the case.

Having said that, if you are a normal individual, without any particular brilliance when it comes to investing or trading, i think warren buffets "invest as if you can only do it 20 times in your life" really helps.

If you pay that much care into your investments, as if you can only buy 20 companies in your life time and hold them.

The probability of a few of them being incredibly wonderful companies like Public Bank, Top Glove etc, should be decent, and for the rest to turn out to be pretty ok, with no major losses.

Even so, you really only need one of them to be the Public Bank.

From what sifu's like charlie munger said, "I did not get rich investing in middling opportunities."

Or Seth Klarman: “It is easy to find middling opportunities but rare to find exceptional ones.”

This is my biggest lesson this year, i have to confess i bought quite a few middling opportunities, probably like 10% of portfolio. And this consist of a large proportion of my losses last year, despite being so small.

Since our name is not WB, and our cash not so much, as investors, we should only invest in wonderful opportunities. Not middling ones.

That's for me anyway.

=====
Posted by Icon8888 > Jan 5, 2019 09:17 AM | Report Abuse

Long term hold of companies with moat not the only way to make it in bursa

I have busy reading lately. John Neff , Joel Greenblatt, Seth Klarman (margin of safety) , David dreman etc all churn their portfolio every few years (some even happy to let go after few months when profitable)

So it is not true that moat based Buffett style super Long term investing is the only way to do it

Don't believe me ? Read their books

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2019-01-05 12:14 | Report Abuse

Up_Down,

You know i 've been thinking maybe i should allocate a small portion of my fund, or at least my personal money to trading.

Would you mind writing about your journey, your philosophy etc

====
Posted by Up_down > Jan 5, 2019 10:44 AM | Report Abuse

Yeah. It’s easy to trade once you get used to it through acceptance of our mistakes and learning experiences in the process. It may take years to endure such setbacks. Life becomes easy once we accept our mistakes gracefully in trading.

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2019-01-05 12:21 | Report Abuse

There is also right issue as well.

Yahoo takes into account split, but not rights.

The multiple expansion is larger than what yahoo shows i think.

======
Posted by Icon8888 > Jan 5, 2019 09:01 AM | Report Abuse

QL earnings grew from 125 mil in 2009 to 250 mil in 2018

A growth of 100% over 9 years

But market cap expanded by 400% (according to yahoo chart, it went up from 1.6 to current 6.7)

Value creation for shareholders not so much by earnings improvement but more on PE multiple expansion

Same thing happen to TOP glove , vitrox, prestariang (before collapse) JobStreet

Posted by Choivo Capital > 2019-01-05 12:27 | Report Abuse

I must admit, i was looking at yinson, management looks great, but i didnt find it that wonderful. Its probably because i dont really understand the business gua.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 14:19 | Report Abuse

multiple expansions...if it is not just temporary speculations....is the best way to generate wealth.....everyone wants their company to experience multiple expansions but not everyone succeeds.

multiple expansions? image....reputation

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 15:47 | Report Abuse

according to article, in Wall Street,........daily trading volume on the stock exchanges is driven by factions that are not too concerned with the “fundamentals” of what they are buying. About 18 months ago, JPMorgan published a report that said fundamental traders accounted for only about 10% of trading volume in stocks.

hahahaha 10%.....Malaysia how?

the other 90%?

In America, they blame it on the disruptive impact on stock prices caused by algorithms, hedge funds, ETFs and the like.

In Malaysia, it is the syndicates, punters, the traders, gamblers and me.......

Long number is a rare breed. I wish long number well.....I think he is smart, disciplined, independent thinking, ...an intellectual and a nice guy..........

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 15:48 | Report Abuse

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robisbitts2/2019/01/03/the-new-challenge-for-buy-and-hold-investing/#7c8e046f4745

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 16:08 | Report Abuse

yeah,correct.they cornered the stocks that's why dutch lady still above 60,if govt bodies no interfere dutch lady should price likely is 25-35 max

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 16:10 | Report Abuse

out of the 10% balance, close to 9% is held by market operators and balance of less than 1% by retailers

really meh? if true....we are all just churning the same 1% and see who live who die......

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 16:15 | Report Abuse

headline news.....Apple plunge deepens Warren Buffett's book value woes

when Buffett loses, they call it book value woes.....when I lose money, it is called losses........

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 16:16 | Report Abuse

Yinson dulu 2nd board johor truck company,in 2007 I bought at 1.50,50,000 my average price is 1.00,everyday volumeless until 1 day I sold at 50cts only.from that day the price never fell below 49cts after I sold. if hold until now maybe worth more than 1 mil

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 16:17 | Report Abuse

nevermind qqq3,ur jaks 50cts coming.....hehe

Posted by moneypedia > 2019-01-05 16:20 | Report Abuse

one two buckle my shoes three four shut the door....continue

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 16:27 | Report Abuse

American dream,land of opportunity....apple sudah almost bankrupt in the 80's also can make a comeback,trump bankrupt how many times also can make a comeback,which msian stock can be like that?

Posted by apolloang > 2019-01-05 16:30 | Report Abuse

American got talent winner get USD 1 mil,asian got talent winner only get USD 100k

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 16:32 | Report Abuse

Apple...very funny....those Apple shareholders now only know about China problems meh?

I already got whatsapp message weeks ago about boycotts of Apple phones....Those carrying iphones in China better hide theirs ever since they kidnap the Huawei girl....SOEs telling employees, no salary increase , no bonus if caught carrying iphones....Love the Chinese unity , don't you?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 16:36 | Report Abuse

Oracle of Omaha....reporters can only say book value woes....dare not say....Oracle no more, just another bufalo......

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 16:52 | Report Abuse

Posted by i3lurker > Jan 5, 2019 04:45 PM | Report Abuse

I also believe WB was immediately aware that he made a bad investment in Apple. He could not do anything coz he just bought too much
========

like KYY and jaks?

Posted by UnicornP > 2019-01-05 16:52 | Report Abuse

Last August, Buffett told CNBC that he was not focusing on iPhone "sales in the next quarter or the next year," adding that he liked Apple because there are "hundreds millions of people who practically live their lives" by the iPhone.

See, WB is not "trading" AAPL. He is gonna long it for like >10 years. So probably he doesn't care unless Apple bankrupt?

Posted by UnicornP > 2019-01-05 17:11 | Report Abuse

Haiz.. WB where know these tech trend la..
Report said WB first invested in AAPL in early 2016, that's around $100. In 2 years he almost gained 100%. Isn't he a pro trader also? kiki

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-05 17:16 | Report Abuse

within 3 years...Amazon phones or Google phones will steal the market away....even in America

outside america, its all Chinese phones and Samsung.

Posted by UnicornP > 2019-01-05 17:17 | Report Abuse

WB isn't investing for monetary gains. He just buys the companies he loves and keeps it permanently if everything is well. Not like he needs money to fund Rolls-Royce, mansion, birds kind of things.

Posted by UnicornP > 2019-01-05 17:20 | Report Abuse

No one can replace Steve Jobs.. There isn't anyone in Apple bold enough to create an alien product and bet it win or bust. Every executive just plays safe and earns their millions every year!

Posted by moneypedia > 2019-01-05 18:12 | Report Abuse

singin a bit kindergarten peberet song

One, two,
Buckle my shoe;
Three, four,
Knock at the door;
Five, six,
Pick up sticks;
Seven, eight,
Lay them straight:
Nine, ten,
A big fat hen;