Posted by ahhuat56 > 2020-06-12 12:05 | Report Abuse

The dual listing project is still ongoing....when it materializes, investors can still benefit from it.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2020-06-12 12:11 | Report Abuse

During the 2009 EGM, shareholders of ICAP asked the fund managers to look for ways to invest overseas. In last year's AGM, shareholders still ask the FM on the progress of the dual listing project.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2020-06-12 12:18 | Report Abuse

what are the differences between a professional FM and a blogger ? Bloggers hide their real identities and provide cheap talks and do not have to be responsible for what they said (unless MCMC takes action).

A professional FM is licensed, regulated, transparent, and answerable to investors and the regulators.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-12 12:36 | Report Abuse

TTB a license Fund Manager but he acted like sohai mah...!!

His return last year & this year very poor loh...!!

Posted by ahhuat56 > Jun 12, 2020 12:18 PM | Report Abuse

what are the differences between a professional FM and a blogger ? Bloggers hide their real identities and provide cheap talks and do not have to be responsible for what they said (unless MCMC takes action).

A professional FM is licensed, regulated, transparent, and answerable to investors and the regulators.

Posted by rogers123 > 2020-06-12 13:58 | Report Abuse

A professional FM is licensed, regulated, transparent, and answerable to investors and the regulators. <- professional fm is just a name, also acted like sohai, either sohai or conman. Never trust them. If u trust them, y don u buy unit trust?

Posted by rogers123 > 2020-06-12 13:59 | Report Abuse

Unit trust is managed by well known fm

Posted by rogers123 > 2020-06-12 13:59 | Report Abuse

no need to buy stock in klse la

Posted by Thinkcarefully > 2020-06-12 14:27 | Report Abuse

Ttb thinks that the best investment is to place your money in FD.

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-12 16:59 | Report Abuse

ok, thursday announced, ICAP NAV by 10-June was 2.90, only 1.75% above last week's 2.85. Meaning, he didn't buy *a lot of" Airasia stock.
Once again, compare KLSE index in 10-June and 3-June, it's was a 2.4% upwards vs ICAP NAV's 1.75% upwards. Once again, KLSE beats ICAP in huge margin, 37% more to be precise. Congrats TTB, once again, you had done it.

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-12 17:02 | Report Abuse

#ahhuat56, your statements were.....sounded like a primary school kid....Do you mind i ask, how old are you?

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-12 17:15 | Report Abuse

#Quincy, you were suggesting me to subscribe to a non-performing fund managers' writing works? Are you ICAP staff? Because the logic is just....unbelievably funny. Let me tell you this, in fact, I was one of the big fan of TTB about 7 or 8 years ago. I attended all ICAP's big investment days/week and attended as many free talks as possible. And, I actually paid and subscribed to the ICAP newsletters for one whole year during that time. So, i really quite familiar with TTB's way of thinking. My conclusion today is this, not worth it. TTB doesn't deserve his title. Some of us had finally seen "the truth" on him, but a lot others still blur blur admiring him. I'm sure you subscribe to the newsletter (if you are not ICAP staff, sorry), so you may already asked him those questions, then why don't you just post his answers here? Instead of asking people here to pay TTB (even more) money to subscribe to his newsletter then only able to ask him those questions?

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2020-06-12 22:33 | Report Abuse

@fong7,
No wonder you seem so bitter about TTB and iCapital. My guess is that the subscription didn't make much money for you? Did you buy iCapital shares but didn't make much money?

I only can say, at least you didn't lose much money putting your money in iCap. I'm sure you'd gain something in that 1 year subscription, albeit a small part.

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2020-06-12 22:42 | Report Abuse

I don't agree with TTB 100%, but I agree that not losing big in stocks over the long term is already an achievement.

Investing directly in many other shares would have made irrecoverable losses, eg buying BAT years ago and holding til now, or using your example, buying Parkson or Bstead and holding until now.

Of course, one can always argue that investing in PENTA instead of ICAP 5 years ago would be a huge difference. But how many people are that lucky? What if one bought Hengyuan in 2015 and held until now?

If stock investment is a sport like badminton, iCapital would deploy a defence first strategy. It may not win much in the short term. But it is guaranteed not to lose much in the long run. And keeping some cash is part of that strategy.

Disclaimer: I'm not an employee of iCap. Just a small shareholder.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-06-14 19:02 | Report Abuse

“When Benjamin Graham wrote his investment classic “Security Analysis” in 1934, it was during the depths of the 1929 Great Depression, when US unemployment rate hit 25% and when so many business and banking enterprises were closing down so rapidly the economic landscape resembled a cascade of dominoes.

However, the Great Depression was not just a remote abstraction to Graham. Few people know that Graham was financially ruined by the 1929 stock market crash. One of the key lessons from “Security Analysis” is Graham’s subsequent near obsession with the financial and balance sheet strength of a company.

His very hard-earned lessons from the Great Depression are so timely in the current Covid-19 collapse. Witness the woes faced by stalwarts like Singapore Airlines, Boeing and many more.“


icapital.biz berhad 3Q20 report – commentary by fund manager

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-14 23:12 | Report Abuse

#enigmatic, you were wrong about the reason why i "seem to bitter" about TTB. It has nothing to do with whether i made money from subscription and trading ICAP. Any mature investor should understand that all materials are just one of the many opinions giving to us when we research on the market or any stock. Since you gave that as your judgement, I suspect your knowledge and experience in stock market is rather limited and immature. I suggest you should learn more before putting big money into the market.

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-14 23:19 | Report Abuse

#enigmatic, the reason i "seem to be bitter" about TTB is because i hate liars and insincere person who made use of their smart ass to manipulate simple minded person in order to make profit from them. In local stock market, there are two such person. TTB, and Koon Yew Yin. I always shoot them. They both use the name of value investing to do bad things that benefiting themselves as priority.

Posted by Quincy > 2020-06-15 09:06 | Report Abuse

@fong7

7 years ago, FBM KLCI30 was 1,756. 7 years ago, i Capital’s NAV was RM3.00. Today, i Capital’s NAV is RM2.90. That is a 12% drawdown in FBM KLCI30 versus 3.3% drawdown in i Capital’s NAV. The resilience is also underpinned by RM1.90 net cash per share as at 29 Feb 2020 to capitalize on downturn opportunities while other funds entered the downturn fully invested.

Yes, I am a subscriber of his newsletter for four years already. However, I am not confident to say “I really quite familiar with TTB’s way of thinking” despite the four years of subscription as the market is really dynamic. In fact, I would be grateful if you can share your familiarity with us here instead. If you really think about it, I didn’t encourage you to subscribe to the newsletter for the sake of paying TTB even more (one volume cost only one Roti Telur for both internet & printed). I encouraged you to subscribe because you want answers to your questions.

For me, it’s simple. I read the newsletter, study the economic data & stylized facts provided and form my own conclusion and action plan. Likewise, I love the “Stock Selection” section as it helps me understand a variety of businesses before I form my own Buy & Sell calls. It worked for me. We may even end up sharing conversation about the prospects of different stocks next time!

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-16 01:22 | Report Abuse

#Quincy, you are comparing TTB's ICAP performance via KLCI30, which is already a very sad thing. Anyway, during this 7 years, ICAP NAV were down by 3.3%. And you are satisfy with his performance? This sounds really sad. If you put your investment in FD 7 years ago, you will get a compound growth of FD rate for 7 years....consider the rate is 3%, your profit will be 23% of your initial investment. So who beats who here?

Okay, lets talked about myself now. My own portfolio is a bit difficult to calculate performance because i withdraw money from it every few months. Lets talk about my sister's portfolio which I've been investing for her for about 8+ years now (consider close to your 7 years period). Her portfolio has no money in and out thing, it's one shot initial investment money put in, then never withdraw until now, I just use that money to trade on her portfolio. The performance is 114% gain, that goes 13.6% average annual gain. That portfolio, I treated it highly on value investment, everything buy for super long term in mind. I must admit her portfolio performance is even better than my own portfolio which trades much more frequent. So Buffett is correct, less trading activities is a good practice.

Lastly, I will say this. Some people are stubborn. Stubborn people is extremely difficult to learn well, because ego takes it all. It's sad, when you really think about it. It's sad and stupid.

Posted by trumpgreatagain > 2020-06-16 23:08 | Report Abuse

I admire Mr Tan Teng Boo investing approach and im also one of the ICapital shareholder, wth Icapital cash rich position, i would like to propose to ICapital fund to invest at MMC Corp Berhad

can visit at YouTube MMC SUPER STOCK

Posted by i3gambler > 2020-06-17 18:52 | Report Abuse

Quincy,

During the said 7 years,
It was -12% against -3.3%,
However, if you invest in 30 index counter of KLCI,
You would have received 3 to 4% dividend per year,
So, ICAP was actually performed worse than KLCI for that duration.

Posted by ahteck85 > 2020-06-19 18:08 | Report Abuse

Where are the CoL supporters?
CoL has done two sizeable trades this week and manages to press down icap price.
"Thanks" for doing that.

Posted by angmodan > 2020-06-20 19:42 | Report Abuse

As a shareholder, I'm not a supporter of COL.

BUT, to be fair to the shareholders, TTB is not doing a great job either. blaming doesn't help. Shareholders have to see the fund performing rather than TTB talking about how COL have acted and how China and US fight.

Well everytime during AGM he likes to say that he has worked very hard to looks for stocks to buy. BUT DO WE SEE ANY RESULTS?

claiming that you worked very hard doesn't mean anything. YOU HAVE TO SHOW THE RESULTS. you cannot go around and tell people that you deserve an applause even though you failed a subject BECAUSE you studied until midnight everyday.

integrity & intelligence? what a joke. what i can see so far is that icap is a company in bursa that has zero capital gain, zero dividend, and zero hope. I really hope someone can find a method to wind down the fund instead of feeding the boss with big houses and nice cars.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-06-21 19:08 | Report Abuse

“The big question about how people behave is whether they’ve got an Inner Scorecard or an Outer Scorecard. It helps if you can be satisfied with an Inner Scorecard. I always pose it this way. I say:

“Lookit. Would you rather be the world’s greatest lover, but have everyone think you’re the world’s worst lover? Or would you rather be the world’s worst lover but have everyone think you’re the world’s greatest lover?”

Now, that’s an interesting question. Here’s another one:

“If the world couldn’t see your results, would you rather be thought of as the world’s greatest investor but in reality have the world’s worst record? Or be thought of as the world’s worst investor when you were actually the best?”

In teaching your kids, I think the lesson they’re learning at a very, very early age is what their parents put the emphasis on. If all the emphasis is on what the world’s going to think about you, forgetting about how you really behave, you’ll wind up with an Outer Scorecard. Now my dad: He was a hundred percent Inner Scorecard guy.

He was really a maverick. But he wasn’t a maverick for the sake of being a maverick. He just didn’t care what other people thought. My dad taught me how life should be lived. I’ve never seen anybody quite like him”

The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life by Alice Schroeder

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-06-21 19:28 | Report Abuse

Philip hv a lot to learn fm TTB....first class taichi master n dunno what cock he talk

Posted by angmodan > 2020-06-21 23:49 | Report Abuse

what I notice is this johndough only knows how to quote a book.

come on. don't be so obvious.

for those who didn't know, TTB quoted a damn lot from books as well in his newsletter.

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-06-22 06:29 | Report Abuse

U know who he is lah...lol

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2020-06-22 09:44 | Report Abuse

Since listing, ICAP has generated a return of an annual compound return of 7.7%.

Posted by Nepo > 2020-06-23 21:18 | Report Abuse

Boss, compound return 7.7%with only one dividend paid since listing for 15 years in fact is NOT impressive..

Posted by Nepo > 2020-06-23 21:42 | Report Abuse

If I were TTB, I will use 30 millions cash of Icap fund die die buy in MKH @ RM 1.1x（today price, this price has stayed for long) and hold long-term and see what happen after 2 years..

Posted by Nepo > 2020-06-23 21:44 | Report Abuse

Day after day, year after year..if this conservative stubborn guy NOT doing additional investment, he so called loyal shareowners will leave one after another...pity Icap..

Posted by pontianak > 2020-06-23 21:49 | Report Abuse

Same old story on TTB. How come you all don’t to gang up & kick him out

Posted by i3gambler > 2020-06-24 18:02 | Report Abuse

ahhuat56,

Base on latest price 2.02 and NAV of 2.85, inclusive of the one off dividend of 9.5 cent.

1) The CAGR for NAV is around 7.9%,
2) The CAGR for price is around 5.5%,
3) The CAGR for KLCI is around 3.6%,

However, we should add about 3.5% dividend yield for KLCI, meaning KLCI's CAGR is 3.6%+3.5%=7.1%.

So I would say ICAP performed poorly since its inception.

Posted by Nepo > 2020-06-27 19:58 | Report Abuse

Great TTB 3rd generation value investing.
Benjamin is 1st generation, Warren is 2nd generation. Warren generation ended because he have made losses in airline and banking stocks..
Old people should retired..

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-06-28 19:08 | Report Abuse

“Perseverance at even relatively modest rates of return is of the utmost importance in compounding your net worth. A corollary to the importance of compounding is that it is very difficult to recover from even one large loss, which could literally destroy all at once the beneficial effects of many years of investment success.

In other words, an investor is more likely to do well by achieving consistently good returns with limited downside risk than by achieving volatile and sometimes even spectacular gains but with considerable risk of principal.

An investor who earns 16 percent annual returns over a decade, for example, will, perhaps surprisingly, end up with more money than an investor who earns 20 percent a year for nine years and then loses 15 percent the tenth year.

One of the recurrent themes of this book is that the future is unpredictable. No one knows whether the economy will shrink or grow (or how fast), what the rate of inflation will be, and whether interest rates and share prices will rise or fall.

Investors intent on avoiding loss consequently must position themselves to survive and even prosper under any circumstances.”


Margin of Safety: Risk Averse Value Investing Strategies for the Thoughtful Investor by Seth A. Klarman

Posted by fong7 > 2020-06-29 10:00 | Report Abuse

#JohnDough, How much have you lost in ICAP? Relax man. You are becoming scary now, I think you should see a psychiatrist before mental breakdown.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-07-05 16:26 | Report Abuse

“Since the whole subject of compounding has such a crass ring to it, I will attempt to introduce a little class into this discussion by turning to the art world. Francis I of France paid 4,000 ecus in 1540 for Leonardo da Vinci’s Mona Lisa. On the off chance that a few of you have not kept track of the fluctuations of the ecu 4,000 converted out to about $20,000.

If Francis had kept his feet on the ground and he (and his trustees) had been able to find a 6% after-tax investment, the estate now would be worth something over $1,000,000,000,000,000.00. That’s $1 quadrillion or over 3,000 times the present national debt, all from 6%. I trust this will end all discussion in our household about any purchase or paintings qualifying as an investment.”


Buffett Partnership, Ltd. 1964 Letter – Warren E. Buffett

Posted by stockraider > 2020-07-05 16:57 | Report Abuse

Buffet at least compound around 20% pa...but sohai TTB compound at lower than fixed deposits rate mah...!!

Posted by JohnDough > Jul 5, 2020 4:26 PM | Report Abuse

“Since the whole subject of compounding has such a crass ring to it, I will attempt to introduce a little class into this discussion by turning to the art world. Francis I of France paid 4,000 ecus in 1540 for Leonardo da Vinci’s Mona Lisa. On the off chance that a few of you have not kept track of the fluctuations of the ecu 4,000 converted out to about $20,000.

If Francis had kept his feet on the ground and he (and his trustees) had been able to find a 6% after-tax investment, the estate now would be worth something over $1,000,000,000,000,000.00. That’s $1 quadrillion or over 3,000 times the present national debt, all from 6%. I trust this will end all discussion in our household about any purchase or paintings qualifying as an investment.”


Buffett Partnership, Ltd. 1964 Letter – Warren E. Buffett

Posted by fong7 > 2020-07-06 09:40 | Report Abuse

#JohnDough = Psycho .....scary.....

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-07-08 14:22 | Report Abuse

JohnDough aka Ttb...the best FD investment master in Msia...

Posted by Nepo > 2020-07-09 19:18 | Report Abuse

TTB bought in Suria recently, that is why I also bought in Suria. Hoping Suria can help me generate huge profit.

Posted by idunwork > 2020-07-09 21:18 | Report Abuse

Just last month some of us here blamed ttb not buying AirAsia Lol sure didn't see what was coming.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-07-12 17:50 | Report Abuse

“Value investing is an intellectual discipline, but it may be that the qualities essential for success are less mental than temperamental. First, a value investor has to be aware of the limits of his or her competence. You have to know what you know and be able to distinguish genuine understanding from mere general competence.

Second, value investing demands patience. You are not compelled to act until that bargain is available. In Warren Buffett’s useful analogy, investing is like batting without called strikes. You can take as many pitches as you want until you spot the one you like. Then you swing, and if you have done the analysis intelligently, your chances of success are high.

Patience is also necessary after the securities are bought. Even if you are correct about the intrinsic value, it generally takes time for the rest of the market to come around. After all, you bought it because it was out of favor. The market’s estimate of its worth does not change overnight.

A value investor needs to be able to sit still. Sitting still need not mean doing nothing”


Value Investing: From Graham to Buffett and Beyond – by Bruce Greenwald, Judd Kahn, Paul Sonkin and Michael Biema

Posted by Nepo > 2020-07-12 21:06 | Report Abuse

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-warren-buffett-stanley-druckenmiller-missed-the-market-rally-trader-172148318.html

=={{}{{}}==
Warren Buffet is old, have to retire. He earned so much money in the stock market, now he becomes conservative.

. For ones who have earned so much money in the stock market, he may resist to buy in some risky stocks even though they are undervalued. The reason is simple because he is rich and it is not worth to invest in that undervalued risky stocks..

Posted by fong7 > 2020-07-13 09:01 | Report Abuse

OMG, the creepy #JohnDough float out again with his trademark sleepwalking talk.....creepy creepy!

Posted by firehawk > 2020-07-14 15:33 | Report Abuse

Warren Buffet here，Warren Buffet there, everyone can say lah ....

Every year Warren Buffet has and event "Lunch with Warren Buffet" and collect millions for charity, hope all other Warren Buffets can also organize the event to collect, even hundreds K or a few tens of K for charity, then can call themselves Warren Buffet Malaysia or Africa or Mongolia or what .....

i afraid he gives 90% discount of what ppl pay for Warren Buffet, ppl also don want lah .....

Posted by stockraider > 2020-07-14 18:12 | Report Abuse

This icap stupid to claim & associate with sifu warren buffet loh...!!

If warren buffet manage icap...he will jump down river klang...due to consistent & persistent poor for the past 5 years performance mah...!!

Posted by firehawk > Jul 14, 2020 3:33 PM | Report Abuse

Warren Buffet here，Warren Buffet there, everyone can say lah ....

Every year Warren Buffet has and event "Lunch with Warren Buffet" and collect millions for charity, hope all other Warren Buffets can also organize the event to collect, even hundreds K or a few tens of K for charity, then can call themselves Warren Buffet Malaysia or Africa or Mongolia or what .....

i afraid he gives 90% discount of what ppl pay for Warren Buffet, ppl also don want lah .....

Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2020-07-17 17:00 | Report Abuse

Of course you must compare with the benchmark. TTB as a value investor must be compared with other value investors such as Buffett. TTB's icap underperformed the KLCI in past 5 years? Read the Annual Reports before commenting.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-07-19 12:59 | Report Abuse

“I want to make clear the important distinction between risk control and risk avoidance. Risk control is the best route to loss avoidance. Risk avoidance, on the other hand, is likely to lead to return avoidance as well. Risk control has nothing to do with risk avoidance.

The road to long-term investment success runs through risk control more than through aggressiveness. Over a full career, most investors’ results will be determined by how many losers they have, and how bad they are, than by the greatness of their winners.

Skillful risk control is the mark of the superior investor”


The Most Important Thing Illuminated: Uncommon Sense for the Thoughtful Investor – by Howard Marks

Posted by fong7 > 2020-07-21 07:27 | Report Abuse

ICAP Robot Psyco #JohnDough appeared again! Run!....

Posted by observatory > 2020-07-21 16:55 | Report Abuse

I have a question.

Refer 2019 annual report (page 38). Interest and dividend income were RM9.8m and RM4.9m respectively. After deducting RM8.7m expenses (including RM7.2m to fund manager), profit before tax was RM6.1m. Income tax was RM2.1m. Effective tax rate was 34%. This was higher than the 24% statutory tax rate.

More details were provided in Note 12 (page 45). It showed the dividend income RM4.9m was tax exempted. But there was no exemption for the RM9.8m of interest income.

The bulk of ICAP taxation was contributed by the non-deductable expenses of RM1.8m. Any idea what it is?