Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-10 02:10 | Report Abuse

There is this conundrum. iCap's objective is to invest in good shares with capital appreciation potential and keep them for as long as they live up to expectations, so the NTA can keep increasing, but booked as marked to market, i.e. paper profits instead of realised one. Such growth stock are usually low dividend payers, because they need to retain funds for business expansion. So in order to pay a 4% target dividend yield, the combined dividend and interest income after the 1.5% management fee needs to be 5.5%. Cash deposits are below this rate, so the portfolio will need to do the heavy lifting to generate the balance income and profit in order to sustain this rate. Not an easy task without selling some shares to realise some capital gains.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 08:58 | Report Abuse

iCAP dividend payout formula = base rate + top up rate

base rate = 1% of NAV

top up rate = 8% *(NAV - iCap share price)

top up rate = 0 if iCAP share price equal or greater than NAV

some comments

The yield is heavily skewed towards the discount between NAV and iCAP's share. It is understandable because it is a lot harder to increase NAV in a short time than riding on negative sentiments.

1% x NAV is guarantee because it's impossible to have zero NAV....anything x ZERO equals to ZERO....So to have higher base rate, NAV will have to keep growing.

2. To get another 3% yield from Top Up rate .... implied discount = 24%

It tells you there will be a permanent 24% discounts to get this 3% dividend yield component.

In a zero discount/parity situation. the NAV will need to almost 3X from current NAV to get 4% dividend yield.

You need NAV at $ 10 x 1% = 0.10/ dividend share. So need 10(Implied NAV)/3.53(current NAV) = 2.83 times

Most people will have a hard time to believe NAV can be triple within 1 year and have a very easy time to believe 24% discounts between NAV and iCAP's price to get 4% dividend yield.

It telegraphing a wrong message.....more discounts, higher yield and it's easy to believe. It will keep reinforcing a negative vicious circle.

In share buy back, you buy 100,000 shares in a day- it will attract many other buyers to keep bidding up. It will help to improve the sentiments and reinforcing a positive message. It has a lever effects....4 ounces lift 1,000 pounds. Confidence begets confidence. This is an offensive strategy(proactive to pinjam from dumbMoney).

The fund manager has chosen a defensive strategy(reactive) and sending a very wrong message to the current and potential investors. It will face an uphill task.

I will be out of pockets for a few days.....will miss you all. Take care.

Posted by i3gambler > 2023-10-10 09:29 | Report Abuse

Let say:
1) 10 sen dividend, and with 10% discount DRIP.
2) If I have 10000 unit, I get 1000,
3) Worth it for me to opt for DRIP because the stamp duty is only RM10
4) And DRIP is simple task now, can just do it by Bursa Anywhere app.

Refer to ICAP annual report, there are total 6 million units from the group who own 10000 or below.
Assuming only them will opt for cash, ICAP will pay out 600K instead of 14 million cash.
In fact I believe some of those who own a few thousand units will also opt for DRIP, still gain more than the stamp duty.

I believe the Innovative dividend policy will not help in closing the Price / NAV gap.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 10:37 | Report Abuse

Chasing Yield + Paying a Premium
= Better Hope there is Someone more Irrational.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 10:40 | Report Abuse

Investing should be simple and not simpler!

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 10:43 | Report Abuse

The full value of a closed end fund is KNOWN. The rational buyer will always demand a discount. Expect a discount of 20% as the normal.

This discount can be expected to remain until the fund is liquidated for cash or converted to open ended mutual fund.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 10:53 | Report Abuse

The fund manager should focus on growing the NAV.

The price will take care of itself. Too many factors determine the price. It is better to let these remain as before.

Imagine what can happen to iCap price if it can grow its NAV consistently and averagely at 15% per year for many years.


At one time, in the early years of iCap, its price was at a premium to its NAV. It is irrational for a careful investor to buy a closed end fund at a premium. It presumed that its NAV could rise faster and exceed the price paid sometime in the future. This was speculating and not investing. More likely, the premium price drops even as the NAV continues to rise. Worse still is the scenario where the premium price paid drops below the usual price discount to a shrinking NAV.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 10:56 | Report Abuse

ICap shareholders are approaching a critical milestone. They will soon have to decide on the future of this fund.

Focus on the fund manager's ability to deliver high returns on NAV. The other issues are side shows and add to complexities and costs.

TTB is now close to 70.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-10 11:17 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney Even though dividend by itself don't add much value to enterprise value, it serves an important function in price determination, telegraphing the financial health of the company with changes in the payout. Prices react more to increases or cuts in dividend than the dividend itself, so a dividend that fluctuates according to price discount adds to uncertainty in pricing because it gives no indication of future prospects. A company with steady dividend growth over the years is more highly priced than one that fluctuates quarter to quarter, leading to volatility in pricing.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 12:03 | Report Abuse

A company delivering CONSISTENT AND GROWING DIVIDENDS can only do so when it's EARNINGS ARE CONSISTENT AND GROWING.

I often use dividends and particularly dividend yields , in some companies, as a method to know the lowest prices that that these yields can support. The DY range of a consistently dividend company as be used as a rough guide as to whether its price is relatively cheap or expensive.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 12:48 | Report Abuse

Focus on the fund manager's ability to deliver high returns on NAV. The other issues are side shows and add to complexities and costs; these are better avoided preferably.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 12:52 | Report Abuse

A couple of quite comments

>>>>

Chasing Yield + Paying a Premium
= Better Hope there is Someone more Irrational.

>>>>>

Tiga i - witty 😂😂 Best post of the day.....Great Punch Line.... I laughed till I almost fell of my chair....that's what iCAP innovative dividend is......If I know so easy and understandable by all, I will save all my primary school math skills....

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:03 | Report Abuse

How to profit from this investor sentiment variability?

The strategy of buying the closed-end funds with the biggest discounts earned superior returns (a strategy also advocated by Benjamin Graham). Burton Malkiel, author of A Random Walk Down Wall Street, has also advocated such a strategy.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:05 | Report Abuse

Conventional way of evaluating a company that paying dividend is always looking at discounting its Free Cash Flow...FCF is .cash left after paying operating expenses and capex....sometimes it's kind of difficult to estimate for small investors like us because we don't talk to the management to understand all the parameters. A cheat way is using EBITDA.....these Free Cash Flow has to be predictable in order to do that. That is why it is far easier to estimate a simple business with moats with almost no need to buy high tech stuffs to generate these free cash flow. That is why it is far easier to value Coca Cola than TSMC.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:07 | Report Abuse

Closed-End Investment Fund Discounts

Several studies have shown that closed-end funds tend to trade at a discount (sometimes exceeding 50%) to their per share NAVs.

Theoretically, investors could purchase all the shares in the fund, liquidate the fund, and make a profit by selling the constituent securities at their market prices.

However, after accounting for management fees, unrealized capital gain taxes, liquidity and transactions costs, any profit potential is eliminated.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:07 | Report Abuse

There is very little earnings(except interest income and dividends) and almost no capex need for iCAP....DCF will be way out to value iCAP....The best way is still NAV to keep things very simple. Added now with the very innovative dividend policy.....like dumbMoney pointed out it adds uncertainty.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:09 | Report Abuse

But since like Tigai said, we need to get used to 20% discount as a new normal......share price will always be discounted that way....

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:11 | Report Abuse

Asset Management Accounting 101 (A Conceptual Overview)
The single biggest metric to watch for any company in this industry is assets under management (AUM), the sum of all the money that customers have entrusted to the firm.

An asset manager derives its revenue as a percentage of assets under management, AUM is a good indication of how well -or how badly - a firm is doing.

Unlike a bank or insurer, where big losses can cause the firm to become insolvent, big losses in asset management portfolios are borne by customers.

Big losses will affect fee income by reducing AUM, but an asset manager could lose well over half the value of its assets under management and still remain in business.

In a worst-case scenario, customers could withdraw their remaining dollars and the firm could fold if its fee income became inadequate to support its operations.

But because asset management requires almost no capital investment, these companies can pare back to the bone to remain in business.



Additional notes:
Asset management firms run money for their customers and demand a small chunk of the assets as a fee in return.

This is lucrative work and requires very little capital investment.

The real assets of the firm are its investment managers, so typically compensation is the firm's main expense.

Even better, it doesn't take twice as many people to run twice as much money so economies of scale are excellent.

This means that increases in assets under management - and therefore, in advisory fees - will drop almost completely to the bottom line.

All this adds up to stellar operating margins, which are usually in the 30% to 40% range - something you won't see in many industries.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:12 | Report Abuse

Let's say all the holdings in iCAP hit 52 weeks high, it may translate into NAV of 4.1 as I have posted earlier...I will assume people will pay up to max of 3.3 only......just forget about those dividend stuff

Posted by speakup > 2023-10-10 13:14 | Report Abuse

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/685293

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:14 | Report Abuse

Fees for managing funds have been trending downwards over the last decade. The rewards to fund manager's compares to the fund holders have been asymmetrical for many years, for most actively managed funds. This is neither healthy nor sustainable.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:15 | Report Abuse

So a rational trader should step in and buy now up to 2.8 and forgeting all the complicated stuffs.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:17 | Report Abuse

But there are too many uncertainties that preventing them to do so.....the potential lawsuits, dividend policy, etc...

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:18 | Report Abuse

All the announcements that came out just extinguish the flame when people are getting to be aroused...😂😂

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:19 | Report Abuse

Closed-ended funds: Why a discount, anyway?
Most closed-ended funds sell at a discount.

A recent sampling showed that more than 2/3rds of equity funds trade at a discount, and more than 90% of international equity funds trade at a discount. Many discounts are modest (5 to 10%), but many are 30% or more.

There is much research and speculation about why discounts happen. The debate isn't nearly as important as understanding a few of the most common reasons.

When selecting a closed-ended fund, investors must determine the reasonthe fund is trading at a discount and whether the discount is significant enought to be attractive. A discount may be justified by

uncertainty,
popularity or perceptions of the fund, and
the underlying asset base.

All 3 factors can work to cause a fund based on securities in Russia or Turkey, for example, to sell at a discount.

Likewise, during the heyday of the Asian Tigers, many funds based in Asia sold at a premium. The reason? Popularity and the perception of future growth and gains.
.
2012

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:20 | Report Abuse

Really got too go....getting hooked now with this channel now.....

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:25 | Report Abuse

When selecting a closed-ended fund, investors must determine the reasonthe fund is trading at a discount and whether the discount is significant enought to be attractive. A discount may be justified by:

1. uncertainty,
2. popularity or perceptions of the fund, and
3. the underlying asset base.



These are the most important factors.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:29 | Report Abuse

Using closed-ended funds

iCap closed ended fund is structured for those investors who are seeking maximum portfolio gain and who are not interested in income. The dividends and the realised capital gains in iCap are reinvested to achieve the objective of maximising capital or portfolio gain. It is not hard to see that iCap closed ended funds should be considered a long-term investment.

Should iCap be trading at a premium? It is presently trading at a discount. Well, let not the manager of the fund pleads on this, let the investors decide. The manager should stay focus on just improving the qualityof the fund's portfolio and returns.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:36 | Report Abuse

@Tigai...I have decided. 24%, permanent discounts...so hope fund manager to tell all investors.. Don't hope for premium. Also don't blame other for spreading negative news with intention to buy more

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-10 13:50 | Report Abuse

There are 2 ways to make money and 2 ways to lose money when investing in closed end funds. You must learn them.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 13:55 | Report Abuse

Yes Sir... Thank you for the advice.. Thank you too for the last few posts... I am enlightened. Many gurus here 🙏🙏🙏

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-10 14:08 | Report Abuse

@Tiga i.... what are the 2 ways of making and 2 ways of losing money.....Guru, can you teach us ?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-11 00:41 | Report Abuse

The price of a closed-ended fund is tied to the market value of the underlying securities. But it doesn't match NAV exactly. There is NO process to peg the price to the NAV daily.

Instead, the price is set by the market, based on supply and demand for the shares of the fund.

In a sense, a closed-ended fund is a set of securities within a security - a basket of fluctuating stocks trading inside a traded stock shell.

Posted by stockraider > 2023-10-11 08:17 | Report Abuse

Icap price discount to NAV has gone back up high again loh!

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-11 08:25 | Report Abuse

I have been thinking why I am even to bother to share my views lately......

Let me be clear on the first part of the disclosure so that the fund manager doesn’t think I am working with others with a hidden agenda. In fact, arguing publicly doesn't help me. Thanks to the uncertainties created by the fund manager initiating lawsuits against COL that allowed me to accumulate a small position. But this small position at the rate of compounding return of 15%, it will be more than 1 million Ringgit, 20 years in the future, exit with a discounted of 24% to NAV. Even he is fall short of 15% from his ideal, I will still be rewarded handsomely. It is working against my interest in fact to argue with the fund manager.

For the records, I will still buy up to RM 2.80 just in case the fund manager think I am done with buying and start to promote it. On flip side, in case he thinks I am one of the sour grapes. Again, for the records, even the share price drops substantially from yesterday closing price, I will still making a small profit.

Why can't I air my views during AGM? I am neither eloquent enough nor have a big horsepower intellectually to present my views. I have a terrible public speaking fright because I can't even write or speak proper English....you know, a local graduate ma. I can't get English tenses right, was were, a , the....and also I heard it is very intimidating during AGM for those who present alternate views during the meeting.

The crux of the issue: if the company has allocated a fixed amount of a fund say RM 15 million per year, a-dollar-for-a-dollar, what is the best way of using this fund, should we distribute it as dividend or should we do a buy back or a combination of both?

The pros and cons of options of each option were not presented to all shareholders, instead they will be sold on a canned presentation. I wish the fund manager would have created a slot for experts in their respective areas to discuss about these options. Let the shareholders to hear it. It is perfectly okay with me at the end the fund manager and shareholders go for dividend after the shareholders are given the cooling off time to think about it. We are not in a rush to decide anything. We can do it in AGM 2024 or 2025. After all, those who attracted to iCAP are patient people, we are not here to make a quick buck. I care about the process and system, not the end result.

It is the democratic process, transparency, intellectual decision-making process and diversity and inclusion that I hope to see improvement. Closed end fund is a public company after all. I wish the fund to do well in next 100, 200 years so that my many generations of great grandchildren will inherit a big fortune with the magic compounding. I wish iCAP will be the greatest wealth creator in Malaysian history - creating many billionaires. iCAP is indeed at the crossroad, a crisis creates an equal opportunity to make it a great institution.

Thank you for hearing me out.

"When the facts change, I change my mind" Winston Churchill/John Maynard Keynes

Posted by i3gambler > 2023-10-11 08:29 | Report Abuse

The following blue chips are also kind of Closed End Fund, with even higher discount compare to ICAP:

1) BKAWAN, owning:
1a) KLK
1b) A small oil palm estate in Indonesia
1c) Other chemical businesses
Performed very much better than ICAP for the last 18 years.

2) GENTING owning:
2a) Genting Singapore
2b) Genting Malaysia
2c) Genting Plantation
2d) Landmark
2e) Power Plant, Oil and Gas, and etc
Performed very much worse than ICAP for the last 18 years.

3) HLFG, owning:
3a) HLBANK
3b) Insurance business
3c) Other small businesses
Performed very much better than ICAP for the last 18 years.

Why not we have a look at the above 3 blue chips?

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-10-11 09:32 | Report Abuse

Why do you need the discount gap to close if you are not selling?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-11 11:48 | Report Abuse

One way for the manager to share the discount pain of the shareholders is to take its fees in new shares issued at NAV instead of market price, since the fee is based on NAV and not market price. He is then on the same page with the shareholders in the real world and not in the virtual reality NAV world.

Posted by stockraider > 2023-10-12 11:21 | Report Abuse

Memang betul sifu sslee findings loh!

Lu tau boh ?

If u look at the balance sheet of insas....the associate companies cost is around rm 577m & these comprises Inari, Ho hup & many unlisted companies loh!

If i conservatively take all the associate cost of Rm 577m to be attributable to Inari alone & excluding all other companies above, i still can have a nice handsome gain of rm638m (rm 1215m minus Rm 577m) and this will add another 92 sen to already high NTA of Rm 3.53 to a revise nta of rm 4.45 per share loh!

Insas have so much value in it , that is beyond any ordinary soul can comprehend loh!

Only people like sifu sslee & Leno that have ability & can see beyond the future, can comprehend the prospect & the huge profitability that can be made by investing insas mah!

U all need to trust sifu sslee who is so kind hearted & willing to share the bounty of Insas with us all loh!


Posted by Sslee > 1 day ago | Report Abuse

Repost:
Is that sooooooo stupiiiiiiid someone cannot read nor understand what I posted on:
M&A Securities SDN BHD financial highlight: A 100% holding of Insas before RTO of SYF.

FYE 30 June
2019 2020 2021 2022
RM’000 RM’000 RM’000 RM’000
Revenue 26,314 36,978 68,906 48,541
Other items of income
15,791 18,646 33,291 28,900
Items of expense (33,353) (42,855) (77,420) (54,632)
PBT 8,752 12,769 24,777 22,809
PAT 6,552 9,172 18,764 17,916

Can anyone understand english kindly explain to sooooo stupiiiiiid why staff expense increase in 2021.
2020 item of expenses RM 42.855 million. PBT RM 12.769 million
2021 item of expenses RM 77.420 million. PBT RM 24.777million

RI of Insas-PB with free Insas-WC is a way to reward shareholders. You can either sell your entitlement or subscribe for the RI
I subscribe for my RI entitlement with 10% excess application and later sold the WC for a 6 digit gain.

Someone is very jeleous I make 6 digit gain from the WC.
Recently bought back some WC because history will repeat again. In the past someone promote PA, and WC rocket pass PA. Now that someone day and night promote Jaks hence WC will/shall rocket pass Jaks soon.

去年同期脱售联号公司所有股权录得1亿3130万令吉一次性收益，托高了对比基数
One-off exceptional gain on deemed disposal of equity interest in associate companies of RM 131.3 million.
Do anyone know what is deemed disposal?

Associated co - Inari completed private placement of 10% share at RM 3.10, way above its NTA per share, & insas needs to account for its equity accounting (Inari) share of share capital/reserve increase of RM 131.3 million, purely accounting treatment in compliance with FRS. Non cash flow but increase in assets.
Balance sheet the non current asset associate companies value increase by RM 131.3 million.

Did someone know Jaks every year PP way below NTA?

Insas still hold 537,008,575 inari share (associate company) and
1,215,718,665 M&A an effective holding of 60.83% subsidiary company of Insas.
Know what is the market value of 537,008,575 inari share and 1,215,718,665 M&A share?
Know insas yearly dividend income from Inari alone?
Year end 30/6/2023
Dividend received: RM 56.521 million

Since when a car rental business in Singapore is profitable?
Someone must be smart to dispose capitalA for disposal gain before Covid-19 strike. Only dumb dumb hold Icapital TTB still holding capitalA before covid-19 untill now. Most likely TTB will still dumb dumb hold capitalA till suspension and delist

By the way Omesti is not an Associate company of insas: In balance sheet it is one of many equity investment held in current assets: Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss, as at 30/6/2023 that assets at mark to market value: RM 222,832,000

As at 30/06/2023
NAPS: RM 3.53
Deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions: RM 943,505,000
Cash and bank balances: RM 104,747,000
Total: RM 1,048,252,000
Less:
Cash and bank balance pledged: RM (2,376,000)
Fixed deposits pledged: RM (233,801,000)
Free Fixed deposits and cash and bank balance: RM 812,075,000
Year end 30/6/2023
Interest received: RM 25.349 million

2023 EPS: 18.51 sen
2022 EPS: 32.44 sen
2021 EPS : 37.06 sen

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-12 12:03 | Report Abuse

Share buy back -- iCAP PUT. Standing solidarity with shareholders.

If all the 3,000+ shareholders are buy-and-hold forever type, discounts don’t matter. Any form of discounts – irrational or rational don’t matter.
If you are in this bucket, congratulations! You have achieved ABSOLUTE financial freedom. You are in the top 1% or even top 0.1% income group in the country. You are flushed with cash. Zero headache on discounts, you will worry more on where to invest next or how to spend them or perhaps figure out how to write a good will to avoid estate fight after your departure.
Unfortunately, 99% or 99.9% of people have a possibility to exit due to many reasons. If these people need to exit and luck is not on their side during a bear market, demand for shares will fall. Adding salt to the wound, all wanted to rush out the same door at the same time, this will add a lot of supply to the market. Demand is falling and big supply is coming, Kaboom, we have a perfect storm – very irrational discounts will spring to life. If iCAP has a share buy back program and do intervention consistently, the market will know there is an iCAP put. You draw a line in the sand.
They will hold back or slowing down their selling. The losses on iCAP shareholders who exited will be lesser. There could be 5% lesser or even 10% lesser losses….anyone with 5,000 shares, will save them a few hundred to a thousand ringgit lesser losses. I can say, it’s also a form of standing solidarity with iCAP shareholders. Those did not sell has shown solidarity will be rewarded back later. When the market recover, when treasury shares distributed as share dividend. Good karma.

Posted by i3gambler > 2023-10-12 13:14 | Report Abuse

stockraider

So, INSAS is also kind of Closed End Fund. 😀😀

Check at Yahoo Finance, INSAS Adjusted Close on 19.10.2005 = 0.2123,
Current Price = 0.88,
Cumulative Return = 0.88/0.2123-1= 315%,
Beat ICAP in both NAV and Price Performance for the last 18 years.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-10-12 15:52 | Report Abuse

>>>>

3gambler

stockraider

So, INSAS is also kind of Closed End Fund. 😀😀

Check at Yahoo Finance, INSAS Adjusted Close on 19.10.2005 = 0.2123,
Current Price = 0.88,
Cumulative Return = 0.88/0.2123-1= 315%,
Beat ICAP in both NAV and Price Performance for the last 18 years.

>>>>


It is often interesting to read such a post.

How many were able to acquire Insas at its lowest price? Very few.

How many hold on to Insas for 18 years, excluding the major shareholders?

For the majority of small players in Insas who have held for a reasonably long time, I guess most would have bought around 50 sen/share. Today it is 88 sen/ share.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-12 16:35 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney There was once a COL put also, when they were collecting cheap shares, until they were injuncted. Now there is this talk about foreign shareholding limit, so the put may not be there now.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-12 18:14 | Report Abuse

I hope iCAP will not trap into it's heavy historical baggage and should avoid xenophobia....I pray for healing but it takes two to tango. we shall see.

Meanwhile, for the rest of the shareholders, in my humble opinion.

"God will help who help themselves" 1 vote 1 voice. Let your voice to be heard. Do you want iCAP PUT?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-10-12 18:24 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney The iCap put is free, as it is just the flip side of the free cash call option.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-12 18:29 | Report Abuse

👌. Choose wisely.😉

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-13 08:41 | Report Abuse

iCAP PUT is not innovative and I just borrow from a lesson learnt from the Federal Reserves(Fed) will make the market to believe they, the Fed, will intervene in times of the crisis of confidence. Many of us would have heard of Greenspan PUT or Ben Bernanke’s dropping free money from the helicopter during QE eras.

“Greenspan put was the moniker given to the policies implemented by Alan Greenspan during his tenure as Federal Reserve (Fed) Chair. The Greenspan-led Fed was extremely proactive in halting excessive stock market declines, acting as a form of insurance against losses, similar to a regular put option.”

Find out more from this link: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greenspanput.asp

The key word is EXCESSIVE or the word that I have been using IRRATIONAL DISCOUNTS.

For those who understood iCAP PUT immediately, you must have been in the financial markets at least 20 years and you are very likely more than 40 years old. I heard iCAP demographic is consists of a big % of people over 50 years old. So, your instinct will tell you it’s a no brainer.

Your fund director and other fund manage by iCAP fund manager implemented that too sub-consciously. Ms. Tan Mun Lin has shown solidarity by buying 25,000 shares and Capital Dynamics asset management supplied liquidity with the purchase 937,900 shares during iCAP lost decade. And I thank you for these efforts. Those exit at the time when they were taking shares off your hands at the times your desperately wanting to exit at any price, you must thank them. (see shares the bought in page 58 and 59 of iCAP’s 2023 Annual Report)

Your good actions are telling us we are on the same page and on the same side of a coin.

If we the shareholders asking the same that you buy on our behalf with a pre-approved RM 15 million/year, can you do that for us? Please🙏🙏🙏 . Are we asking for too much?

I will buy some Coke, chips and re-watch THE BIG SHORT tonight. Have a nice weekend.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-10-13 09:23 | Report Abuse

I'm against Share buy back by icap. Prefer gap close due to performance. enforcing a buy back will just encourage fund manager to buy stocks without proper timing and valuation.

If you think icap discount is more lucrative than other opportunity ahead, then you should be the one buying to narrow the gap and see what will eventually happens.

If you are concern the gap will be there for a long period of time, then just exit, most shareholder are in profits, including COL. Just like you cant expect a cash rich company trading below NTA to keep buying back so retail investor can unload their holdings.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2023-10-13 09:40 | Report Abuse

Hats off to those who speak their minds. At least they have a mind of their own. You speak out what you believe. SBB was not given a chance to be debated.....

Choice A - innovative dividend
Choice B - refer to choice A

Not happy get out!

😎😂😂

Posted by Patient Investor > 2023-10-13 16:19 | Report Abuse

@Fast you can ask in AGM why dont they do Share buy back and see what's the fund manager concern. I'm looking fwd mr Tan being challenged by shareholder and the way he respond.