Posted by Sslee > 2024-04-19 19:49 | Report Abuse

If Yinson reward shareholders with RI of 5 year RPS with interest of 9.625% per annum many shareholders would have fully taken up the RI.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:22 | Report Abuse

Yinson
Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019
Sales/Revenue 6,324.00 3,607.00 4,849.00 2,519.00 1,035.00
Gross Income 1,792.00 1,276.00 1,270.00 561.00 567.00
Net Income 452.00 401.00 315.00 210.00 235.00
Gross Profit Margin 28.34% 35.38% 26.19% 22.27% 54.78%
Net Margin 7.15% 11.12% 6.50% 8.34% 22.71%

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:26 | Report Abuse

Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019
Net Income before Extraordinaries 855 716 580 331 344
Funds from Operations 1,052 615 580 391 683
Changes in Working Capital -2,689 -1,963 -1,846 233 -94
Net Operating Cash Flow -1,637 -1,348 -1,266 624 589
Capital Expenditures -1,119 -68 -285 -1,223 -1,172
Free Cash Flow -2,752 -1,415 -1,548 -592 -200

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:30 | Report Abuse

All values MYR Millions. 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019
Cash Dividends Paid - Total -87 -64 -64 -65 -108
Change in Capital Stock 754 3 -33 -77 -30
Issuance/Reduction of Debt, Net 668 2,509 2,173 979 791

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:31 | Report Abuse

Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019
CASH AND EQUIVALENT 1,660 2,873 2,050 1,465 1,290
ST DEBT & CURRENT PORTION OF LT DEBT 1,257 662 808 489 401
LT DEBT 10,208 9,967 7,173 5,221 4,324
TOTAL DEBT 11,465 10,629 7,981 5,710 4,725
NET CASH (DEBT) -9,805 -7,756 -5,931 -4,245 -3,435

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:35 | Report Abuse

Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019
ACCOUNT RECEIVABLE 1,023 644 575 548 433
ACCOUNT PAYABLE 462 202 178 148 113

Long-Term Note Receivable 10,334 6,688 4,405 1,501 15


[Often, a business will allow customers to convert their overdue accounts (the business’ accounts receivable) into notes receivable. By doing so, the debtor typically benefits by having more time to pay.]

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:37 | Report Abuse

YINSON 19.4.2024

Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023
TOTAL EQUITY (Book Value) 4,666.00
TOTAL ASSET 19,259.00

Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023
NET INCOME 452
NOSH (DILUTED) 2,710

Fiscal year is February-January. All values MYR Millions. 2023
FREE CASH FLOW -2,752
DIVIDENDS -87

FISCAL YEAR ENDING 2023
PRICE 2.35

MARKET CAP (MILLION) 6,368.50

ROE 9.69%
ROA 2.35%
P/B 1.36
P/E 14.09
EARNINGS YIELD 7.10%
DIVIDEND YIELD 1.37%

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:42 | Report Abuse

YINSON
From 2019 to 2023
It grew its sales from RM 1b to RM 6.3b.
Its net income grew from 235m to 452m.
Gross profit margins shrunk from 55% to 28.3%.
Net profit margins shrunk from 22.7% to 7.15%.


Comments: It grew its business hugely. However, profit margins have shrunk.
A great company has a gross profit margin of >40% or more.
A great company has a net profit margin of 10% or 20% or more.

Why had its profit margins shrunk?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:46 | Report Abuse

YINSON

2019 to 2023
Though reporting profits from its operations, these are not so healthy profits, as these generated little cash. In fact, the company had to raise funds (through issuing new shares in 2023. Its total debt had increased from 4.7b to 11.5b during the last 5 years.

This company's operation destroyed cash. It was debt cash positive over the last 5 years and this had increased during the period.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:49 | Report Abuse

YINSON

Its account receivable doubled from 2022 to 2023, in keeping with its doubling of its revenues over the same period.

Is the rising Long-term Note Receivable worrying? This has increased from 15m to 10.3b from 2019 to 2023.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 16:53 | Report Abuse

At market price of RM 2.35, its market cap is at RM 6.368 b.

Its ROA is 2.35% and its ROE 9.69%.
(I like company with ROA > 10% and leveraged < 1.5x. This company is highly leveraged too. Total Asset/Total Equity = 4.1x.)

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 17:17 | Report Abuse

YINSON

2019 TO 2023

Its net cash from operations were negative during this period.
It had huge capex during this period.

A great company is one that generates healthy consistent and growing earnings that translate into healthy cash flows from operations. A great company requires to spend <25% of its CFO on capex, thus generating a lot of FCF that can be used to pay down the debts, buy back its own shares, give dividends or invest to grow.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 17:27 | Report Abuse

Summary: (my opinion)
Its business is challenging, requiring a lot of capital to grow.: it requires lots of working capital, and lots of capex for maintainance and growth.
Its debts are accordingly high and its interest high too. It has a debt of 11.5b compared to its equity of 4.7b.

I see a lot of business risk investing in this company.

I classify this company as at most a GOOD but not in the category of a GREAT business, the type I like.

Posted by Sslee > 2024-04-20 18:19 | Report Abuse

FPSO Anna Nery achieved financial acceptance in May-23 and began generating lease income.
Currently, it still has 3 more FPSOs under construction.
FPSO Atlanta and FPSO Maria Quiteria will be delivered in year 2024 and FPSO Agogo will be delivered by Feb-26

Yinson FPSO business:
Construction period.
During contruction/conversion period huge capital outlet and revenue and profit classified under EPCIC

Operation period.
FPSO delivered to client hit oil and revenue from charter lease rental from client.

I3 do you know what are the gross and net profit margin during construction and operation period?

Is it good enough to know the past figures but omit the business and what will be the future figures?

What will be your figures look like in year 2025 when two FPSO in operation phase and 2026 when all the three FSPO in operation phase?

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ YINSON
From 2019 to 2023
It grew its sales from RM 1b to RM 6.3b.
Its net income grew from 235m to 452m.
Gross profit margins shrunk from 55% to 28.3%.
Net profit margins shrunk from 22.7% to 7.15%.

Comments: It grew its business hugely. However, profit margins have shrunk.
A great company has a gross profit margin of >40% or more.
A great company has a net profit margin of 10% or 20% or more.

Why had its profit margins shrunk?

Posted by Vdhawan > 2024-04-20 18:31 | Report Abuse

High operating cost ... that's y uts profit margins shrunk

Posted by Sslee > 2024-04-20 18:37 | Report Abuse

If only you care to find out what are the gross and net profit margin during construction and operation period you will know the answer.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-20 19:51 | Report Abuse

Why do you choose to jump over a 7 feet hurdle? Choose the 1 foot hurdle?

(Of course, I assume Yinson is a 1 foot hurdle for SSLee but for me, it is a high hurdle for now. )😀

Posted by 8dragon > 2024-04-20 21:01 | Report Abuse

Lost confidence in the company, sold @ 2.42 losing 15%....

Posted by Bullrun18 > 2024-04-20 21:31 | Report Abuse

把目光放长远一点吧 ！ 在股市找不到大钱的人永远都那群目光短浅的人。

Posted by speakup > 2024-04-20 21:55 | Report Abuse

OTB give up on Yinson?

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-20 22:00 | Report Abuse

Dear Sslee, 3iii

I3 do you know what are the gross and net profit margin during construction and operation period?
Ans :
The gross profit during construction period = 7.6%.
The gross profit during Operation period = 39.6%.

The below information is extracted from Q4 2024 results.
ROIC = 14.13%.
ROE = 17.69%.
Earning yield = 12.31%.
EPS = 0.315
PER = 7.46.
EV/EBIT = 8.12
Net profit margin (Net profit/sales) = 8.28%
Cash flow from CFFO = -2,881,000
Free cash flow = -3,191.000.
Net debt = 13,362,000
Interest coverage = 2.760.

High debt and negative cash flow are the real reasons that Yinson cannot perform.
I have all figures to show.

Thank you.

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-20 22:10 | Report Abuse

FPSO Anna Nery. Brazil. 75% stake in 2023, 66.5% stake in 2024.
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/yinson-rises-17-after-landing-fpso-contracts-worth-us52b-brazil
https://www.oedigital.com/news/497166-naming-ceremony-held-for-yinson-s-anna-nery-fpso#:~:text=The%20estimated%20aggregate%20value%20of,date%20of%20the%20final%20acceptance.
Contract value = USD 5.4 billion. 25 years firm.
Start operation in early 2023.
Annual (charter rate) revenue = USD 5400 million/25*75% = USD 162.00 million = RM 761.40 million (1 USD = RM 4.70)
PBT (40% of revenue) = 304.56 million (75%)
PAT (37% tax) = 191.87 million (75%)
PBT (40% of revenue) = 263.95 million (65% after 2023)
PAT (37% tax) = 166.29 million (65% after 2023)

3 FPSO vessels of Yinson under construction
1.) FPSO Maria Quitéria. Brazil. 100% stake.
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/yinson-lands-fpso-contracts-worth-us52-billion-brazil
Contract value = USD 5.2 billion. 22.5 years firm.
Start operation in mid-2024.
Annual (charter rate) revenue = USD 5200 million/22.5 = USD 231.11 million = RM 1.086 billion (1 USD = RM 4.70)
PBT (40% of revenue) = 434.40 million
PAT (37% tax) = 273.67 million

2.) FPSO Atlanta. Brazil. 100% stake.
https://www.oedigital.com/news/494478-malaysia-s-yinson-brazil-s-enauta-pen-firm-contracts-for-atlanta-field-fpso
Contract value = USD 1.9 billion. 15 years firm and with option to extend 5 years.
Start operation in mid-2024.
Annual (charter rate) revenue = USD 1900 million/15 = USD 126.67 million = RM 595.35 million (1 USD = RM 4.70)
PBT (40% of revenue) = 238.14 million
PAT (37% tax) = 150.03 million

3.) FPSO Agogo. Angola. 100% stake.
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/node/657117
https://klse.i3investor.com/web/announcement/detail/1757017
Contract value = USD 5.3 billion (Inclusive 15 years + optional 5 years extension). 15 years firm and with extension 5 years.
Start operation in the fourth quarter of 2025.
Annual (charter rate) revenue = USD 5300 million/20 = USD 265.00 million = RM 1.246 billion (1 USD = RM 4.70)
PBT (40% of revenue) = 498.20 million
PAT (37% tax) = 313.87 million

If you add up the net profit, the total profit for these 4 FPSOs are > 904 million profit.
Those 5 old FPSOs, total net profits are = 589 million.
Grand total net profit = 1.493 billion.
NOSI = 3.184 billion
EPS = 0.47
PER = 5.0

Thank you.

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-20 22:15 | Report Abuse

A great company has a gross profit margin of >40% or more.
A great company has a net profit margin of 10% or 20% or more.
-----------------------------
Ans :
Gross profit margin of FPSO = 39.6%.
Net profit margin (Net profit/sales) = 8.28%

Overall, Yinson is a good stock to watch in term of fundamental.
I have monitored 8 quarter results so far, hence I know all the facts and figures.
Thank you.

Posted by xiaoeh > 2024-04-20 22:22 | Report Abuse

everything will be fine...
as long as Yinson can get banks and investors to believe
and continue funding its expansion till Yinson is able to generate profit after 2026 to pay back its debts

but again
Yinson will continue tendering new project along the way to 2026
new funding is required, and debts seem no way to reduce

just compare apple to orange
looks how Evergrande and other giant is falling
something similar as vicious cycle is in the making...

Posted by xiaoeh > 2024-04-20 22:26 | Report Abuse

sorry no facts and figures from me
just talking rubbish...

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-20 22:32 | Report Abuse

Posted by xiaoeh > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

everything will be fine...
as long as Yinson can get banks and investors to believe
and continue funding its expansion till Yinson is able to generate profit after 2026 to pay back its debts

but again
Yinson will continue tendering new project along the way to 2026
new funding is required, and debts seem no way to reduce
--------------------
I met Yinson management to talk about debt matter.
According to the management, all debts of FPSO will be settled after 7 years.
On the 8th year, the profit is a clean profit with no debt.
Yinson will perform well in a longer term.
Debt will reduced drastically after FY 2027.
I believe Yinson will be qualified to be a component stock of FBMKLCI after 2027.
Thank you.

Posted by xiaoeh > 2024-04-20 22:35 | Report Abuse

Thanks OTB for your sharing for all the facts and figures
Noted and Thanks.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2024-04-21 06:45 | Report Abuse

Thanks for sharing. This is the sort of discussion that will benefit this forum. Not the type that I had with a Singaporean.

This allows us to see the various views of different investors. Also, presenting the fundamentals and the narratives related to these fundamentals highlighted the important facts needed for one to make an intelligent decision.

We invest in different styles. Thus, it is alright to differ in opinions. You are right from your own perspectives. Afterall, it is your money and your decision is the one that matters.

Thanks for sharing. Fragility of the business environment is an issue I look at too in investing.

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 09:06 | Report Abuse

I met Yinson management to talk about debt matter.
According to the management, all debts of FPSO will be settled after 7 years.
On the 8th year, the profit is a clean profit with no debt.
Yinson will perform well in a longer term.
Debt will reduced drastically after FY 2027.
I believe Yinson will be qualified to be a component stock of FBMKLCI after 2027.

I would rather believe in Wawasan 2020 ghost story

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 09:08 | Report Abuse

Anyway, can always trade Yinson-WA for chicken rice meals

No conflicts

Posted by Sslee > 2024-04-21 09:15 | Report Abuse

KYY wawasan 2020 for jaks JHDP become wawasan 2030.
By 2030 when jaks JHDP repaid all the loan then jaks will receive huge dividend from JHDP.

The only problem can Jaks survive till 2030?

Posted by Sslee > 2024-04-21 09:29 | Report Abuse

Someone need to ask Yinson CFO why paying more than double the US 5 Year Treasury Rate of 4.68%?

Is Yinson cannot get a normal USD loan from bank with lower interest rate than 9.625% to refinance the matured borrowing?

SINGAPORE, April 19, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Yinson Production Offshore Pte. Ltd. ("Yinson Production") is pleased to announce the successful placement of a USD 500 million senior secured bond issue with a 5-year tenor and a fixed coupon of 9.625% per annum in the Nordic bond market.

5 Year Treasury Rate is at 4.68%, compared to 4.62% the previous market day and 3.71% last year. This is higher than the long term average of 3.75%.

The 5 Year Treasury Rate is the yield received for investing in a US government issued treasury security that has a maturity of 5 years

Posted by Sslee > 2024-04-21 09:47 | Report Abuse

The question why not doing this 5 year USD Bond issue at 9.625% interest in Malaysia?
Many institution funds and me will q up to buy this bond.

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-21 10:04 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > 21 seconds ago | Report Abuse

The question why not doing this 5 year USD Bond issue at 9.625% interest in Malaysia?
Many institution funds and me will q up to buy this bond.
-------------------------
Yinson issued a sukuk of RM 640 million in Malaysia before Chinese New Year 2024, the coupon rate is 7.95%.
The take up rate of this sukuk is so demanding, all RM 640 million sukuk was taken up within 20 minutes.
Thank you.

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 11:52 | Report Abuse

9.625% Bond doesnt sound any alarm to Sifu n others ah?

Still die die believe their Wawasan 2027 ah?

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-21 12:09 | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 11 minutes ago | Report Abuse

9.625% Bond doesnt sound any alarm to Sifu n others ah?
Still die die believe their Wawasan 2027 ah?
-----------------------
I have a small holding on this stock only.
I invest is to make money.
I believe the share price is low enough. I can afford to lose on this investment.
Not interested to buy in a big way until TA showed a buy signal.
Thank you.

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-21 12:21 | Report Abuse

I watch the Youtube on TS Francis Yeoh interview on the Power Plant in the eighty.
YTLPower paid >10% interest to all international investors, eventually YTLPower made a fortune on this Power Plant.
The gross profit of a FPSO on operation is 39.6%, FPSO business concept is the same as a power plant.
Thank you.

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:30 | Report Abuse

Though Sifu only has a small holding on Yinson n Wa but his love is 100%...non stop promotion of Yinson n Wa in I3 n also to his RM1k clients for the past 2 years

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-21 12:32 | Report Abuse

Posted by CharlesT > 23 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Though Sifu only has a small holding on Yinson n Wa but his love is 100%...non stop promotion of Yinson n Wa in I3 n also to his RM1k clients for the past 2 years
--------------------
No more promotion until TA is bullish.
I just talk about facts only.
Thank you.

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:36 | Report Abuse

OTB

I am also lucky, managed to get my Yinson sukuk at 7.95%.
Thank you.

20 minutes ago

Lucky or not has to wait for few years time till the maturity....

Maybe lucky to receive high coupon rate of 7.95% for 2 or 3 years but than not so lucky before the bond matures

Who knows....nowadays difficult to tell

Mamakthir also never expect himself to live so long to see his Wawasan 2020 to become a laughing stock

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:37 | Report Abuse

OTB

Posted by CharlesT > 23 seconds ago | Report Abuse
Though Sifu only has a small holding on Yinson n Wa but his love is 100%...non stop promotion of Yinson n Wa in I3 n also to his RM1k clients for the past 2 years
--------------------
No more promotion until TA is bullish.
I just talk about facts only.
Thank you.

3 minutes ago

If u are so confident with yr "facts" then should sailang or sialang lah or invest more lah....why so shy to have a small holding only....

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:39 | Report Abuse

I am very confident with Stock A I promote it 99 last 2 years...

I only have small holding of 1 lot

Apa macam ini....tak boleh paham

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:41 | Report Abuse

Not easy to understand Sifu or Master's mentality...

Thats y they are sifu/master while u are waterfish

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:43 | Report Abuse

Sslee

Someone need to ask Yinson CFO why paying more than double the US 5 Year Treasury Rate of 4.68%?

Is Yinson cannot get a normal USD loan from bank with lower interest rate than 9.625% to refinance the matured borrowing?

Mayb the bankers in US dont undertand the "facts" or they dont believe the "facts"?

Maybe they have to pay RM1K to sifu to learn more abt Yinson??

Posted by OTB > 2024-04-21 12:48 | Report Abuse

In my whole life, I believe I manage money very carefully and very well.
So far, not many wastage or big loss.
There is more big gain than small loss.
I talk about facts and figures.

I do not know I will sailang on Yinson or WA.
I want to see TA to be bullish first, then I will strategise it accordingly.
Thank you.

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:49 | Report Abuse

The bond risk premium is the additional return that an investor expects to receive for taking on the risk of holding a bond that has a higher likelihood of default or other credit-related issues compared to a risk-free bond.

22 Nov 2023

Posted by klee > 2024-04-21 12:56 | Report Abuse

Mr OTB,how do you see the breaking down of sp500 n nasdaq? Will they continue to trend down n in turn affect the world mkts including bursa? What about Nvidia?

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:58 | Report Abuse

Not sure how they catergorize a 9.625% Bond in US......

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 12:58 | Report Abuse

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/junkbond.asp

What Is a Junk Bond?

Junk bonds are bonds that carry a higher risk of default than most bonds issued by corporations and governments. A bond is a debt or promise to pay investors interest payments along with the return of invested principal in exchange for buying the bond. Junk bonds represent bonds issued by companies that are financially struggling and have a high risk of defaulting or not paying their interest payments or repaying the principal to investors.

Junk bonds are also called high-yield bonds since the higher yield is needed to help offset any risk of default.

Posted by CharlesT > 2024-04-21 13:03 | Report Abuse

Good to get yr FA Guru KC to do some cash flow analysis on the Co for the past 5 years