Cold Eye冷眼’s 5 yardsticks for investment
Cold Eye, during his talk on 16/3/2013, listed 5 important criteria for investing in a stock as below:
1. Return on equity, ROE,
2. Cash flow from operations and free cash flow,
3. PE ratio,
4. Dividend yield and
5. Net tangible asset backing per share, NTA
If you invest RM100,000 in a business, you would want to have a reasonable return from the capital, or equity you put in. A business is risky and probably you may want a minimum return of say 25%. For investing in the share market, you may want a minimum return say 10%, 6% above the return you get from bank deposit? If the business only returns you 4%, why would you want to invest in it when you can get that rate from FD without having any worries at all?
In your business, you would expect that all your debtors pay you promptly and that you don’t have to stock up a lot of inventories which will tied up your capital. Otherwise you would have to put in more capital each year even though you make money. I would expect the hard cash I can received must be about the earnings I make each year. My business would also require capital expenses each year to keep it going, better growing bigger so that I would earn more in the future. This I would need to buy more and replenish the equipment , buy or open more shops etc. It would be ideal if these expenses can be met with the cash I receive each year and not having to come up with more of my own money or borrow from bank. After that, I would be happy if there is still money left for me to draw out (as dividend), or the company can have extra money to invest in other lucrative business. This money available after all the capital expenses is termed as free cash flow, or FCF.
If the above business make a lot of money, say 30000 a year, or 30%, would you buy it if the asking price is 1 million, or a PE of 33? This will give you a earnings yield of only 3%. Hence a good business does not mean it is a good investment if the price is too high.
How nice it would be if the business earns enough for me to draw down 10,000 a year consistently. For my dividend yield would be 10%, 2.5 times that of FD rate. Besides my business is still growing.
Well if at the end if I want to exit from the business, if the net tangible asset of my assets worth more than what I put in, or more, I can recoup my initial investment. These assets must of course the more valuable the better, for example hard cash, property and land etc, rather than some money which I have been arguing with the debtors whether they are going to pay me or not, or some inventories which are outdated. Hence NTA is important too although in some businesses, example the service industry where the important assets are its people, its technology or brand name rather than hard assets.
Do you have any good stocks meeting the majority of the above criteria as given by Cold Eye to share? Or any lemon you may know which you want to tell others to be careful about? This discussions here is for sharing of knowledge and information and should not be construed as a forum for hard selling or condemning others of their stocks without giving justifications.
Kcchongnz 17/3/2013
Posted by plutus > Jun 14, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse Hi @kcchongnz, if you don't mind, could you send a copy of your FA worksheet to achilles_hee@hotmail.com? Many thanks.
I have hard time calculating ROIC actually, according to morningstar definition you based upon, ROIC=NOPAT/IC The issue is how to judge IC (invested previous year) like you do.. Can I interpret it as Total asset - (free cash flow at the end of last year?) - (non-interest bearing current liabilities ex:payable, provision, deferred tax) - (other liabilities ex: pension fund etc.?)
Plutus, invested capital means capital invested in the ordinary business. This equals to Total assets-non interest bearing current liabilities-excess cash-investments not consolidated in the account.
Excess cash is cash not needed for the ordinary business. this is equal to cash and cash equivalent less Max[0, (current liabilities-current assets)], not including cash and cash equivalent.
Investment in associates, jv, properties etc not consolidated in the account is less off from invested capital
Or the other way is IC=fixed asset (PPE+prepaid lease payment+biological assets)+net working capital (account receivables+inventories-account payable)
You will be able to see how I obtain the invested capital in the spreadsheet I have sent to you.
Kcchong, you are one hell of a generous guy, sharing your expertise and research with all in this website.
Very glad to have read your postings. Heartfelt thanks. Is there another pintaras ? I just joined this site a month ago and thus missed boarding the Pintaras Express .
It is similar to the Altman Z-score, used to check the likelihood that a company can go bankrupt. If one buys the stocks of good companies, this is not a concern. But if one hunts for low price stocks which have been in persistent downtrend for a long time,speculating in the market, following the daily hot stocks and listening to market rumours, he should check the stock with this Pitroski Score first before risking his money. Use it to check stocks like KNM, Patimas, Smartag, Amedia, Tiger, Lion, Leopard etc, even for Ivory, Perisai, London Biscuits etc.
The thing is if there is a high likelihood that that company may face trouble, why invest in it when there are thousands of other opportunities?
Almost miss these cynical comments until I notice the writer.
Posted by Lucky88 > Jun 14, 2013 04:55 PM | Report Abuse Hm.. I think CSL could beat all your PE, ROE, NTA, ...
Posted by iafx > Jun 14, 2013 10:14 PM | Report Abuse @lucky, good point u got there. :)
What is wrong with these comments. Nothing. On the contrary they are useful. I make cynical comments too once a while but with some good intentions.
Yes, one has to be cynical when hearing and reading rumours, market experts, real or pretend, telling them to buy this share and that share. Try evaluate yourself; what they say so, what is their reasoning, motive etc. Ultimately it is yourself to take full responsibility of your own actions.
Dear Mr. kcchong, iam a beginner. I am interested in your template. Could you please send me a copy as well. My email is teh_huiming@yahoo.com. Appreciate for your help. Thank you very much...
Bro kcchongnz, I'm a newbie and would like to learn more about investment. Please send me a copy too and thanks a lot. My e-mail is darrenkho88@yahoo.co.nz
Dear Mr kcchong, Appreciate if you could send a copy to zaprija@gmail.com, always read your posting and would like to learn more from your expetise. Cheers
Would appreciate it very much if you could give me a copy of your FA Template. My email is kkwong699@hotmail.com
TQ.
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Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-17 18:37 | Report Abuse
Cold Eye冷眼’s 5 yardsticks for investment Cold Eye, during his talk on 16/3/2013, listed 5 important criteria for investing in a stock as below: 1. Return on equity, ROE, 2. Cash flow from operations and free cash flow, 3. PE ratio, 4. Dividend yield and 5. Net tangible asset backing per share, NTA If you invest RM100,000 in a business, you would want to have a reasonable return from the capital, or equity you put in. A business is risky and probably you may want a minimum return of say 25%. For investing in the share market, you may want a minimum return say 10%, 6% above the return you get from bank deposit? If the business only returns you 4%, why would you want to invest in it when you can get that rate from FD without having any worries at all? In your business, you would expect that all your debtors pay you promptly and that you don’t have to stock up a lot of inventories which will tied up your capital. Otherwise you would have to put in more capital each year even though you make money. I would expect the hard cash I can received must be about the earnings I make each year. My business would also require capital expenses each year to keep it going, better growing bigger so that I would earn more in the future. This I would need to buy more and replenish the equipment , buy or open more shops etc. It would be ideal if these expenses can be met with the cash I receive each year and not having to come up with more of my own money or borrow from bank. After that, I would be happy if there is still money left for me to draw out (as dividend), or the company can have extra money to invest in other lucrative business. This money available after all the capital expenses is termed as free cash flow, or FCF. If the above business make a lot of money, say 30000 a year, or 30%, would you buy it if the asking price is 1 million, or a PE of 33? This will give you a earnings yield of only 3%. Hence a good business does not mean it is a good investment if the price is too high. How nice it would be if the business earns enough for me to draw down 10,000 a year consistently. For my dividend yield would be 10%, 2.5 times that of FD rate. Besides my business is still growing. Well if at the end if I want to exit from the business, if the net tangible asset of my assets worth more than what I put in, or more, I can recoup my initial investment. These assets must of course the more valuable the better, for example hard cash, property and land etc, rather than some money which I have been arguing with the debtors whether they are going to pay me or not, or some inventories which are outdated. Hence NTA is important too although in some businesses, example the service industry where the important assets are its people, its technology or brand name rather than hard assets. Do you have any good stocks meeting the majority of the above criteria as given by Cold Eye to share? Or any lemon you may know which you want to tell others to be careful about? This discussions here is for sharing of knowledge and information and should not be construed as a forum for hard selling or condemning others of their stocks without giving justifications. Kcchongnz 17/3/2013