Posted by jj888 > 2013-06-23 12:39 | Report Abuse

Haha super911, your hypothesis no. 3 even tho sounds quite dramatic, but it is the only hypothesis so far that can explain the simultaneous occurrence of both limit up & limit down :-)

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 15:49 | Report Abuse

something wrong with bursa matching system for the counters involved.
Take for example TDM : que for buy and sell at 4.50 pm was like this ,


Buy sell
4.16 4.17
4.15 4.18
4.14 4.19
2.90 4.20
At 4:50:06 when seller keyed in to sell at 2.90...according to bursa matching system all the buy orders at 4.16 will be executed first followed by all 4.15 orders and so on .... 2.90 buy orders only will be executed when all buy orders above it were done. But when I did the tracking for the matched price at 4:50:06..straight away 2.90 was done instead of 4.16......why this happened........please BURSA for me this is not a valid trade.

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 16:04 | Report Abuse

Unless 2.90 was done at married deal then normal matching procedures may not be used.

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 16:08 | Report Abuse

But married deal matched price should not be exist in stock tracking

Posted by jbb1676 > 2013-06-23 16:10 | Report Abuse

no logic at all.can bursa detail the transactions n not just said its ok.

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 16:23 | Report Abuse

If this can occur this time..it may occur next time.....wowwwww .. really
dangerous mennnnnnn..if you buy a wrong stock at a wrong time....just like booby trap.....you tak tau bila mau kena...putus kaki oooooooo!

Posted by JCool > 2013-06-23 16:42 | Report Abuse

ruslims... are you very very sure the 4.30 - 4.14 were matched during preclose not BEFORE preclose... just seconds before preclose?

Posted by super911 > 2013-06-23 17:07 | Report Abuse

It is really interesting to see people talk so confidently when they are wrong totally.

Posted by super911 > 2013-06-23 17:09 | Report Abuse

Still so many ppl dont know how pre close matching is done.

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 17:22 | Report Abuse

How you say other ppl is wrong when you yourself dont know. If you know then please explain ....my explanation is from my trading experience

Posted by JCool > 2013-06-23 17:33 | Report Abuse

Ruslimz... what you have stated is the norm... before the bid is frozen during preclose... so it is important whether you are very very sure those 4.30 - 4.17 were matched and cleared BEFORE the bid was frozen?

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 18:17 | Report Abuse

JCooi.....good at least you request for confirmation..not like other guy..who said other people is wrong but he himself know nothing...

JCooi...only for you not for others who know but dont know.
Before that in my explanation I never mention 4.30-4.15 were matched during preclosed.
This case is for TDM. The last matched price before preclose was 4.16 done at 4:44:49...all the price other than 2.90 were done before this time. From 4:45 to 4:50 no matching done an you can only que. and the que that I explained before occured during this relax period. Only after 4:50 matching restart and the first price matched was 2.90 at 4:50:06 and all subsequent trades only can be matched at this price. The problem is why the first matched price during preclose was done at 2.90....If after 4:50 the seller sell order (no que)was at 2.90.. the matched price should be at the highest buy bid at that time which is 4.16.So the first price done during preclose should be 4.16 and not at 2.90...and subsequent price done is only at 4.16.......You must remember last time mana ada ini preclose session. You know why bursa introduce this preclose session. To avoid this last minute manipulation
of price from occuring. .....and with this preclose session system is in place the price manipulation to TDM and others should not have occured.

Posted by anbz > 2013-06-23 18:36 | Report Abuse

i think i can explain mr ruslimz....
1. the q at 4.15 and 4.14 have retreated when they see below them is unbelievably RM 2.90 !!! or
2. the system should show that after 4.16 then 4.15 transactions before the 2.90 transactions... and even if sellers were selling it at 2.90, the system must MUST show, that when it is done at 2.90..MUST be stated as RM 4.15...except this UMA now shows THE REAL VALUE which is RM 2.90 ... so people who wanted to buy at RM 4.15 and 4.14 actually get it, at price of RM 2.90... and the screen also shows at 2.90 which is not as usual which should be what u said...
------
i just want to ask u at that last minute people q at 4.14 and 4.15...how many volume are there?

Posted by anbz > 2013-06-23 18:39 | Report Abuse

futhermore when u realised the buy q was 4.16, then 4.15 then 4.14 then 2.90 and there is no last value after that (the 5th)...no wonder it went down... it's just the system didn't show the asking price but it shows the real transacted price... this is UMA for bursa...but what can u do... just bomb...wait..masuk penjara

Posted by JCool > 2013-06-23 18:41 | Report Abuse

Ruslimz... looks like bursa has screwed up big time.. allowing what it tries to prevent to happen.... and to so many counters too... confidence is now 0

Posted by Musangking > 2013-06-23 18:45 | Report Abuse

I think there is a loop hole in the Bursa system if it can create a black hole under certain conditions. Now BNY knows how. If they continue to deny and this happens again, it will be chaos.

Posted by anbz > 2013-06-23 18:48 | Report Abuse

as long as the last q /the 5th q is the limit down price...it can happen

Posted by anbz > 2013-06-23 18:49 | Report Abuse

or may be the know the 6,7,8,9,10th q and so on the ordinary don't know

Posted by JCool > 2013-06-23 18:50 | Report Abuse

Anyone who have in fact q at 4.16 4.15.. but got it at 2.90 kindly confirm....

Posted by Musangking > 2013-06-23 18:53 | Report Abuse

I think also the sheer volume held the price down. Logically if that is the case, tomorrow the prices should bounce back.

Posted by Musangking > 2013-06-23 18:55 | Report Abuse

This is first time I see limit down 25%. Even correction cannot happen this way.

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 20:46 | Report Abuse

JCool....you are right....if during cooling period from 4:45 to 4:50 any body que to buy at any price above 2.90 but done at 2.90 please stand up.
You can turn bursa upside down. JCool use your trading sense....do you think no single que at above 2.90 just before preclose period......where else the first sell que was at 4.17

Posted by JCool > 2013-06-23 20:51 | Report Abuse

Ruslimz.... dont get me wrong.. i believe you... it is just that this is so unreasonable that i wanted confirmation that it really happened...

Posted by messi > 2013-06-23 21:06 | Report Abuse

The big boys are testing the bursa system. Next target will be to push the KLCI. Up or down is everyone's guess. Good luck.

Posted by messi > 2013-06-23 21:10 | Report Abuse

Don't think it is married deal. With such volume, it should be done as off-market deal and not move the price drastically.

Posted by tc2012 > 2013-06-23 21:27 | Report Abuse

This is a early episode of foreign fund exiting bursa.so you should expect more 'exciting' epsode in near future.good luck

Posted by newboy > 2013-06-23 21:32 | Report Abuse

messi, you make a point there. They tested the system on non-klci component stocks and they proved it. Next, will be the top 30 component stocks. Are we allowed to short KLCI index?

Posted by fauzyrusdeny > 2013-06-23 21:33 | Report Abuse

Ini macam mahu cari makan pun susah maa...

Posted by jpleow > 2013-06-23 21:46 | Report Abuse

I see many of you do not understand how TCP (theoretical closing price) works during the pre-closing period.

TCP (theoretical closing price) & TOP (theoretical opening price), explained based on what I had studied & observed:

TCP is calculated dynamically based on all the bids (buy) & asks (sell) entered using an algorithm to fulfill certain objectives.

--------------
https://www.itradecimb.com.sg/app/help.client.services.z?cat=01&subcat=01_06&subsubcat=40288c9f1de6a0c2011df1cbb098049f

Q2.What is Theoretical Opening/Closing Price (TOP/TCP)?
The TOP/TCP is the price calculated and displayed during the pre-opening and preclosing phases.
The TOP/TCP pricing is formulated based on the following theoretical pricing algorithm, that :
* Maximizes the number of shares traded (executable volume),
* Minimizes the number of unfilled shares (minimum surplus),
* (i) If an imbalance of unfilled shares is on the buy side, the TOP/TCP will be the highest price therein,
* (ii) If an imbalance of unfilled shares is on the sell side, the TOP/TCP will bethe lowest price therein,
*Price closest to the reference price.
--------------

During 4:45 to 4:50pm, orders can only be entered or cancelled but they will not be executed & TCP will be calculated continuously.

All the bids >= TCP will be combined under the 1st best buy & all be asks <= TCP will be combined under 1st best sell. Both 1st best buy/sell price will be TCP.
Eg:
Buy vol, Buy price, Sell price, Sell vol
2300, 2.20, 2.20, 3100
There are 2300 lots bid at price >= RM2.20 & 3100 lots ask at price <= RM2.20.

After 4:50pm, the bids & asks at TCP will be matched with priority of those highest priced bids or lowest priced asks first. If more asks than bids, then the lowest priority asks with highest price & queued last will not be matched.

Hence, if you want you bid to be queued in front, you must bid higher than TCP (or lower for asks), but then you will shift the balance & affect the calculation of the TCP. If the big player pull out at the last seconds, TCP will change dramatically & you may be matched at the price that you don’t like.

After 4:50pm, orders can only be matched at TCP.

Similar for TOP but happened during pre-market from 8:30am to 9am & only for opening transactions.

Posted by ruslimz > 2013-06-23 21:47 | Report Abuse

yes agree....ringgit is falling everyday....foreign is exiting the market
...in line with Nazir Razak statement.....hot money will exit asia in a big way !!!!!!!!

Posted by sephiroth > 2013-06-23 22:00 | Report Abuse

if hot money really exit asia in a big way and 2 more limit down (90% discount) for hsplant, cbip, tdm, i will use all my wealth and borrow from ah long to scoop up all these shares as much as i can

Posted by fauzyrusdeny > 2013-06-23 22:19 | Report Abuse

sephiroth...but ah long will more rich than u:)

Posted by anbz > 2013-06-24 01:55 | Report Abuse

if the 2nd limit down starts in the morning ...good...but if it is executed at last 10 minute again... mati