Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 11:37 | Report Abuse

I do not agree with kcchongnz's comment on Mr. Tan Keng Boon. It is rude.
(1) First of all, if you don't like Mr. Tan Keng Boon helming icap you can always sell out and go find something better for yourself.
(2) Not everytime Mr. Tan Keng Boon is wrong. At least he knows how to get up every morning to go to work on time. Recently, he advises investors to sell out I believe on a lot of blue chips companies with Pe ratio of 20 times or more. This is the right thing to do because with such a high pe ratio you can keep the shares for the next 5 years you are still not going to be making much money. Low interest rate pe ratio of 20 times is acceptable but for in the long term interest rate will be higher and likewise the 20 times faces adjustment.
(3)Falling prices are going to affect a lot of cyclical stocks. Better to be careful because some stocks might go out of trend.
(4)Keeping cash and initiate a wait and see attitude is always a right thing to do when you are no sure what direction the market will take in the future. I strongly agree with Mr. Tan Keng Boon that whatever we do we also must be on the defensive side. There is always a chance to make money of couse but if you want to get a better deal it is better to wait for the prices to come down substantially. What has happen to falling gasoline prices is going to happen to the stock market and to a lot of companies because productivity is not going to just increase over night. The stock market will moderate and adjust itselt when interest rate rise becomes a fact. If you are heavily borrowed or relying on credit to buy shares, this is the time to go for a vacation is my opinion and I assume it is also Mr. Tan Keng Boon's .

Posted by Flintstones > 2014-11-26 11:44 | Report Abuse

Hi Mr. Lim, not really convincing when you cant even spell the fund manager's full name right. After all these years, you still dont know who the hell is Tan Teng Boo? This tells us one thing; either you are a gambler who dont know anything or you are here just to trash KC.

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 11:55 | Report Abuse

Mr. Flintstones: In my opinion, all investors are gambler in some ways because stock market is not a place where they dish out profit 100% to you. You win and lose on this battle and you can not call yourself not a gambler. Besides having poor judgment based on poor sentiment, your comments also shows that you have no good manners. You have no logical judgment, no sensible brain, and the only thing you can only find fault with people is just on their spelling error. I　ｈａｖｅ　ｓｏ　ｍａｎｙ　things ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｏｎ　ｉｎ　ｌｉｆｅ　ｔｈａｔ　Ｉ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｒｅｍｅｍｂｅｒ　ｅｖｅｒｙ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ’ｓ　ｎａｍｅ　ｅｓｐｅｃｉａｌｌｙ　ｔｈｏｓｅ　Ｉ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｓｅｅ　ｅｖｅｒｙｄａｙ．　Ｔｈａｔ　ｓｐｅｌｌｉｎｇ　ｅｒｒｏｒ　ｄｏｅｓｎ’ｔ　ｉｍｐｌｙ　Ｉ have no logical thinking at all. The only thing only your mind is probably you want to kill the guy to take his money away or you are envied of his money.

Posted by walau2u > 2014-11-26 11:58 | Report Abuse

Kian leong lim, u dont even know how to spell ur fund manager name correctly, still wan to talk cock here? Pure gambler la tis uncle.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 12:06 | Report Abuse

Kian Leong,

Good points from you. Let me address your comments for discussion purpose.

1)I respect your disagreement with me. but my comments are rude? Please let me know which part is rude to who?

2) I agree your disagreement with me. Shouldn't you be agreeing my disagreement with you, instead of telling me if I don't like TTB, I must sell my shares in icap? Do you at least agree that anyone, yea any Tom Dick and Harry can buy any stocks which is traded in Bursa and hold it? Does the company belong to TTB? Even if it belong to TTB, can't i own it? Why must i sell it off?

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 12:12 | Report Abuse

walau2u: you don't have to tell me everybody on this forum that you have disease on your ｍｏｕｔｈ. The forum can not identify you face doesn't mean God is not. Becareful it has repercussions when you use vｕｌgar language so often ｏｎ　ｙｏｕｒ writing. I　ｈａｖｅ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｈｕｍａｎ　ｄｉｇｎｉｔｙ　ｌｅｆｔ．　Ｉ　ｄｏｎ’ｔ　ｆｌａｓｈ　ｍｙ　ｃｏｃｋ　ｓｏ　ｃｈｅａｐ　ｓｏ　ｅａｓｉｌｙ．

Posted by sunztzhe > 2014-11-26 12:16 | Report Abuse

Lim Kian Leong,
Any fund manager who had underperformed must be answerable to the investors of iCap. Likewise any of your subordinates who had underperformed in their job must avail themselves for questioning by their superiors on their underperformance and future action plan to improve performance.

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 12:22 | Report Abuse

Super Investor Kcchongnz: So many people idoling you or worshipping you already, have you realize it or not. They call me a gamblar and they consider themselves and you as investors but they don't know how an investor should behave. This is what Warren Buffett said not long ago:
(1)Warren Buffett says that it is “kind of un-American to vote no at a Coke meeting.” “It’s a little bit like belching at the dinner table,” Mr. Buffett told CNBC’s Becky Quick. “I mean, you can’t do it too often. If you do, you find you’re eating in the kitchen pretty soon.”

(2)Mr. Buffett may have achieved his aims rather tactfully.

It was Mr. Buffett’s discussion of the philosophy of a “no” vote, and how it might apply to the workings of a corporate board, rather than a shareholder election, that troubled many, however. Mr. Buffett told CNBC that he’d been on 19 public company boards over 55 years and never heard of a “no” vote on a compensation plan. And he himself had voted for compensation plans – and mergers – that he disagreed with.

“There’s only so many bullets you can use in the gun,” he said in another CNBC interview. “If you start objecting to this, and this, and this, pretty soon people don’t pay any attention to you. You want to save your bullets for when they really count.”

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 12:25 | Report Abuse

Kian Leong,

Please address my post here:

Posted by kcchongnz > Nov 26, 2014 12:06 PM | Report Abuse X

Kian Leong,

Good points from you. Let me address your comments for discussion purpose.

1)I respect your disagreement with me. but my comments are rude? Please let me know which part is rude to who?

2) I agree your disagreement with me. Shouldn't you be agreeing my disagreement with you, instead of telling me if I don't like TTB, I must sell my shares in icap? Do you at least agree that anyone, yea any Tom Dick and Harry can buy any stocks which is traded in Bursa and hold it? Does the company belong to TTB? Even if it belong to TTB, can't i own it? Why must i sell it off?

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 12:31 | Report Abuse

sunztzhe you said : "Any fund manager who had underperformed must be answerable to the investors of iCap. Likewise any of your subordinates who had underperformed in their job must avail themselves for questioning by their superiors on their underperformance and future action plan to improve performance".
Who said so, you said so, only right? But Sunztzhe of the Art of War didn't say so. He did not taught me this : we all should do everything that other people thinks that are right onto outselves. We should all go and die because our enemies think we should.
Even the Bible said: Who gives you the rights to judge others! If you are such a good investor, why do you have to buy icap shares, like what Super Investor Kcchongnz said: there are 1000 counters on the stock market, why can't you just go and pick you own choice. What is stopping you?



26/11/2014 12:16

Posted by jester > 2014-11-26 12:35 | Report Abuse

*eating popcorn*

Posted by TabulaRasa > 2014-11-26 12:40 | Report Abuse

TTB says that there is no value in KLSE for the past few years. May I suggest to the shareholders of ICAP to widen the investment mandate so ICAP can buy shares in foreign countries too where perhaps TTB can find more value?

For the record, I see no problem with him keeping 50% cash if he sees no value. After all, he's the fund manager, not you. :-)

Posted by KC Loh > 2014-11-26 12:41 | Report Abuse

pass me some, Jester! :)

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 12:41 | Report Abuse

"If you are such a good investor, why do you have to buy icap shares, like what Super Investor Kcchongnz said: there are 1000 counters on the stock market, why can't you just go and pick you own choice. What is stopping you?"

Thanks for looking me so high up as a "Super Investor". Nobody else calls me that. what an honor!

Sorry to say once a company is public listed, anyone can buy it. i will tell you why i buy it. it is not because I idolize TTB. As a mater of fact, he has nothing I can idolize him for. Seriously.

I buy icap because it is cheap in relation to its NAV. That presents a money making opportunity. Tell me anyone in stock market is mot looking for a money making opportunity? You? What is your purpose investing in the stock market then?

My wish is an activist investor such as Laxey Partner, or City London will come in. Take control of the board and unlock the value of icap for me. I don't care how they do it, as long as I profit from it.

Posted by nnmm > 2014-11-26 12:44 | Report Abuse

wahhh...hot discussion here...haha...when's the agm? i want to buy 100units to watch show.

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 12:45 | Report Abuse

Kian keong lim,
It is rather funny ask Kc Chong not to buy icap as the company is listed in bursa, why don't said it the other way, instead should ask TTB and is die hard supporters privatize it so KC Chong has no chance to participate the robust and burst of the company.

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-11-26 12:52 | Report Abuse

My Dear,

If we mistimed the market, that is Not all our fault. Don't always blame ourselves. Give a pat on yourself.

IF we buy into great company and it turns sour. That is not your fault. Give yourself some credit as well.

Sometimes, we can beat the market. Sometimes, we cant. it is alright as well.

Am i happy with myself? Am i comfortable with my portfolio? Do i keep learning? that is important.

I am amazed Warren at this age at this time still traveling around the globe learning and hunting for Great business despite occasional flop, bad judgement, he still believe there is some great Business somewhere.

Posted by jester > 2014-11-26 12:58 | Report Abuse

Pass one bucket to KC Loh.. *thinking about it, quite a long time did not see KC Loh's post.. Hurm.. Maybe I do not visit i3 enough perhaps* hehe

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 13:04 | Report Abuse

Investor kcchongnz:
First of all, I want to let you know----your 2 questions are not as tough and demanding as you think!


1)I respect your disagreement with me. but my comments are rude? Please let me know which part is rude to who?

Answer: As to why you are rude. Everyone has his own way of living, conducting himself, and running his business his own way. You are picking on people when you said he underperformed to your standard. Come on, to your standard, haven't you realize that you are you and he is he. And please do not do onto others what you do not want others to do onto you. You are narrowing your life by going against other people's way of life. Does your wife and his wife has the same look?

2) I agree your disagreement with me. Shouldn't you be agreeing my disagreement with you, instead of telling me if I don't like TTB, I must sell my shares in icap? Do you at least agree that anyone, yea any Tom Dick and Harry can buy any stocks which is traded in Bursa and hold it? Does the company belong to TTB? Even if it belong to TTB, can't i own it? Why must i sell it off?

Answer:Your way of doing things is not effective. Instead of blaming people, post a criticizing comment, don't you have other better alternative that you can do to help yourself? In life, you don't beg for money by criticizing other people failing you and the others, you go do it yourself. Where is your guts? Go do it yourself, help yourself, there are 1000 counters on Bursa Malaysia, if that is not good enough, there is also Singapore stock exchange, and exchanges everywhere in the world.

One simple thing I must give credit to Mr. Tan Teng Boon. He founded a company, operated it without a loss, and the most important thing he did was to give 100 jobs to his workers and support their families.

As you said "I agree your disagreement with me. Shouldn't you be agreeing my disagreement with you." At least you know that there are people that would not agree with you always.
26/11/2014 12:25

Posted by jester > 2014-11-26 13:34 | Report Abuse

This thread will resume after lunch hours.. Haha

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 13:34 | Report Abuse

Kian Leong Lim

You: As to why you are rude. Everyone has his own way of living, conducting himself, and running his business his own way. You are picking on people when you said he underperformed to your standard. Come on, to your standard, haven't you realize that you are you and he is he. And please do not do onto others what you do not want others to do onto you. You are narrowing your life by going against other people's way of life. Does your wife and his wife has the same look?

1. Which part of my article your statements below refers to?
“You are picking on people when you said he underperformed to your standard”
2. So you are saying nobody can use anything to compare the performance of a fund managed by icap? Not the KLCI broad index, not other fund managers? How to measure fund icap’s performance then? No need to measure? Nobody can make a suggestion about any measurement?

So you are saying that “Now listen to me, no question asked, vote for the director I suggest here who has been taking care o your interest, don’t say a word?”

3. “please do not do onto others what you do not want others to do onto you”.
Ok I got you. Nobody can question.

You :Your way of doing things is not effective. Instead of blaming people, post a criticizing comment, don't you have other better alternative that you can do to help yourself? In life, you don't beg for money by criticizing other people failing you and the others, you go do it yourself. Where is your guts? Go do it yourself, help yourself, there are 1000 counters on Bursa Malaysia, if that is not good enough, there is also Singapore stock exchange, and exchanges everywhere in the world.

Me: I read your comments and I had the feeling that you are a matured person. But it beats me that you can’t comprehend my point that anybody can buy any public listed stock in Bursa and I have given you my reasons of doing so. You can’t comprehend the purpose of the post and whose interest I am talking about. You can’t comprehend that what and whose interests is utmost important in finance and investment.

You: One simple thing I must give credit to Mr. Tan Teng Boon. He founded a company, operated it without a loss, and the most important thing he did was to give 100 jobs to his workers and support their families.

Me: Again what is the purpose in investment if not for maximising shareholder value?

You: As you said "I agree your disagreement with me. Shouldn't you be agreeing my disagreement with you." At least you know that there are people that would not agree with you always.

Me: I am happy to see disagreements. You know I am not one when face disagreement and become abusive, abusive to the people whose very hands which feed his mouth.

Posted by lching > 2014-11-26 13:40 | Report Abuse

Kian Leong Lim is beating arround the bush.
if you can give someone credit just because he "founded a company, operated it without a loss, and the most important thing he did was to give 100 jobs to his workers and support their families", my dear, you must be very busy by doing so.
TTB is a fund manager n he just fail to do his job since 5 years ago. period.

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-11-26 13:46 | Report Abuse

IF we like the present management and the company's portfolio then we as retailers will invest. if not there is other alternative.

But beware of the High turnover of retailers, it is a driving force of share performance.

As the ultimate goal of company set up is for Public to participate in the wealth creating process and public awareness and education in investing, public opinion should be appreciated and addressed.

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 13:57 | Report Abuse

Investor kcchongnz:
This is getting late for me. But if you really want to know your mistakes there are actually plenty of them　ｉｎｃｌｕｄｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕｒ　ａｒｔｉｃｌｅｓ　ｏｎ　ｖａｌｕｅ　ｉｎｖｅｓｔｉｎｇ. But I　ｎｅｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｅａｔ　ａｌｓｏ，　ｐｌｅａｓｅ　ｌｅｔ　ｍｅ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｈｏｗ　ｍｕｃｈ　ｍｏｎｅｙ　ａｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｇｉｖｅ　ｍｅ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｅｌｌｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕ　ｙｏｕｒ　ｍｉｓｔａｋｅｓ．

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 14:02 | Report Abuse

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > Nov 26, 2014 01:57 PM | Report Abuse
Investor kcchongnz:
This is getting late for me. But if you really want to know your mistakes there are actually plenty of them　ｉｎｃｌｕｄｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕｒ　ａｒｔｉｃｌｅｓ　ｏｎ　ｖａｌｕｅ　ｉｎｖｅｓｔｉｎｇ. But I　ｎｅｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｅａｔ　ａｌｓｏ，　ｐｌｅａｓｅ　ｌｅｔ　ｍｅ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｈｏｗ　ｍｕｃｈ　ｍｏｎｅｙ　ａｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｇｉｖｅ　ｍｅ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｅｌｌｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕ　ｙｏｕｒ　ｍｉｓｔａｋｅｓ．

Kian Leong,

You are welcomed to point out my mistakes. I learn from mistakes. One thing for sure, i wont ask you not to read my article if you find mistakes in my articles. i will thank you instead. But as how much money I am going to give you, this is strange coming out from you. Isn't it. Ok Ok Ok, Tell me how much you are worth in your finance and investment skill.

Posted by walau2u > 2014-11-26 14:03 | Report Abuse

Kianleong uncle, please wake up and learn more on share investment. Tell us your track record, CAGR if you dare.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 14:15 | Report Abuse

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > Nov 26, 2014 01:57 PM | Report Abuse
Investor kcchongnz:
This is getting late for me. But if you really want to know your mistakes there are actually plenty of them　ｉｎｃｌｕｄｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕｒ　ａｒｔｉｃｌｅｓ　ｏｎ　ｖａｌｕｅ　ｉｎｖｅｓｔｉｎｇ. But I　ｎｅｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｅａｔ　ａｌｓｏ，　ｐｌｅａｓｅ　ｌｅｔ　ｍｅ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｈｏｗ　ｍｕｃｈ　ｍｏｎｅｙ　ａｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｇｉｖｅ　ｍｅ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｅｌｌｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕ　ｙｏｕｒ　ｍｉｓｔａｋｅｓ．

But again you are deviating from the very issue that you have raised, that I was rude etc. This sounds very familiar. When issues were raised in icap general meeting, they were diverted and instead shareholders who asked were abused.

By seriously, when I wrote article in i3investor to share, i love constructive feedback. Point out my mistakes. Sure there will be plenty. You know I am just a small time retail investor and like to share what I think. I am not a fund manager. You know I am still learning. Plenty to learn.

Posted by omegacankill > 2014-11-26 14:23 | Report Abuse

to walau2u
look at this uncle comments in Shell and NCB threads...
then you'll know ...

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-11-26 14:27 | Report Abuse

if we ever manage other people money and I believe KC does in some ways, i think it is normal for us to stand up for questioning. No big deal.

Moreover, Icap set up is public investing and participation and education. It is normal public reaction. Management just have to take it positively for improvement.

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 14:39 | Report Abuse

Now, all of you can "rasa" what I meant inin my earlier threads about sleepy icap fund manager's so called die hard supporters.
Instead of convince us by facts, when TTB dislikes your question, he will pick up petty issues and his die hard supporters will joint in to yelled at you or ask you sit down, go home ,etc...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 14:46 | Report Abuse

I think we all here should respect opposite opinions. We don't want to be in the same situation like what happen in icap general meeting, when shareholders are shouted down when offering different opinions. We should debate it constructively.

Posted by walau2u > 2014-11-26 14:49 | Report Abuse

This Tan Teng Boo is super arrogant.

“I’m pretty damn good at what I do. I would say I am one of the top five fund managers in the world. It is a pity that people don’t really recognise that,” says Tan in such a matter-of-fact manner, that it’s almost hard to construe that as boasting.

Source: http://www.thestar.com.my/Story/?file=%2F2009%2F5%2F9%2Fbusiness%2F3846144

Posted by walau2u > 2014-11-26 14:51 | Report Abuse

Since 5 years ago, the stock markets worldwide recovered by leaps and bounds, the share price of icap only increased by a mere 33.7%, or a compounded annual rate (CAR) of just 6%.

Like tis can consider top 5 fund manager in the world ????

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 15:01 | Report Abuse

Investor kcchongnz:
I will show you why you are not the value investor you think you are: I can only give you two examples because I am not paid to do it.

(1)You are a bookwork!
Value Investing Strategy No. 1: Buy Earnings on the Cheap.
"I bought it at RM2.37 just recently, a price more than 20% below its NAV, or there is a potential more than 25% upside if icap can close its gap with its NAV".
You bought icap because its NAV is RM$3.07 per share. Is that the only way you think it is cheap? What about its EPS of 23.89 cents for last year. This company only has a capital of 140 million shares and it only manages to make 33 million or only 23 percent ROE. What is really cheap is the net profit not the company itself is that what you mean when you said "Buy Earnings on the Cheap"? I suggest you go buy plantation stock SUNGEI BAGAN RUBBER COMPANY (MALAYA) BERHAD, its market price is RM3.32 per share but its NAV is RM6.65. Are you going to write to the board of directors there and told them : OH, the upside is surely 100%, and they are not doing their management job properly by letting the share market price to plunge to RM3.32. Why do you have to think like that that people must always give you want you want in life? Where on Earth is this possible?

(2)You are not practicing what you preach! Value Investing Strategy No. 2: Buy a Buck for 66 sen. After copying all the Warren Buffett operating principles are not go enough, you have to know how he implements it. You do not understand what you wrote for the public to read yourself and you want to teach people bra bra bra. Buy a Buck for 66 sen. You think you can go to Parkson and The Store to tell them to sell you what is RM$1 for RM$0.66, do you mind show it to your son, they will tell you you are insane. The seller fixes the price not the buyer. You probably are just too hardworking that you lack all the implementation logic. How to Buy a Buck for 66 sen. You buy something with a pe ratio of below 10. In your case, pe ratio of 6.6 times and you will get back 66 cent for every dollar you invested after 10 years. This is how you accomplish your buy a buck for 66 sen.

What you did is stupid. You bought icap at pe ratio of 10 is not buy a buck for 66 sen. You are not practicng what you preach. You should be buying the stock when pe ratio is 6.6 times earning.

Lastly, you copy Warren Buffett investing principles but you don't understand how he implements it. Please do not call yourself a value investor because you are not practicing what you preach yourself. There is another English word called "imposter with a loud speaker".

Posted by sunztzhe > 2014-11-26 15:05 | Report Abuse

Lim Kian Leong,
I am sure you will also concur that any fund manager who had underperformed must be answerable to the investors of iCap and explain the reasons to icap investors in the meeting why he had underperformed, propose an action plan to improve performance for the next 1 year.

Likewise if you manage subordinates and if any of your subordinates underperformed , I am very sure that you as the immediate superior, will have a meeting with your underperforming subordinate to understand the root causal factor for his or her underperformance , jointly review performance with your underperforming subordinate and thereafter agree on a future action plan to improve performance.

Do you agree with the above Mr Lim Kian Leong???

Posted by NOBY > 2014-11-26 15:08 | Report Abuse

Kian Leong, do you realize that earnings based valuation is not the only approach to valuation ? Furthermore, an asset based valuation for a close ended fund is appropriate as the assets are highly liquid... I ve never seen someone value a close ended fund based on PE...

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 15:11 | Report Abuse

Mr. sunztzhe, you are too idealistic. These days nobody will do any thing that are to their disadvantage just for the sole purpose of pleasing you. Ｉunderstand what you mean. Mr. Tan Teng Boon is so confident with his management style that he just kept 1% shareholding in the company and he did everything according to the investment book to protect his company, his employees, and finally only the shareholders. That is a company that will not go down in any market failure. But it just shares too little profit with the shareholders. Will you do anything like that yourself? Go and please other people for the sake of hurting yourself?

Posted by murali > 2014-11-26 15:13 | Report Abuse

So should let TTB continue to screw the shareholders ever after?

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 15:22 | Report Abuse

Walau2u,
That is the reason I keep calling him as a shameless fund manager. Face damn thick.

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 15:36 | Report Abuse

Walau2u,
If you see his international global fund ", lagi si", Compounded 4.2 % since inception in 2007. I was invited to invest in this opened fund with minimum us$200,000, I remember very well I told him the market at that time was in the high side,he tried to convinced me that see who is the fund manager? As long as the fund manager know how to get his work done, anytime is the good time to invest. See how he used his words. I was lucky as my mind is still with me and not carried away.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2014-11-26 15:58 | Report Abuse

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > Nov 26, 2014 03:01 PM | Report Abuse

Investor kcchongnz:
I will show you why you are not the value investor you think you are: I can only give you two examples because I am not paid to do it.

Ok I agree with your disagreement that I am no value investor. Yeah I should pay to learn learn from you. When to start?

This person below doesn't talk sense. Yeah better learn from you.

Posted by NOBY > Nov 26, 2014 03:08 PM | Report Abuse
Kian Leong, do you realize that earnings based valuation is not the only approach to valuation ? Furthermore, an asset based valuation for a close ended fund is appropriate as the assets are highly liquid... I ve never seen someone value a close ended fund based on PE...

But please lah let me call myself to be a value investor can or not? Also cannot?

"Lastly, you copy Warren Buffett investing principles but you don't understand how he implements it. Please do not call yourself a value investor because you are not practicing what you preach yourself. There is another English word called "imposter with a loud speaker". "

"imposter with a loud speaker"? Has this got anything to do with "rudeness"? but have you found any rudeness in my post yet?

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 16:01 | Report Abuse

Nobly,
Have you heard worshipping investing, as long as TTB walks I front his die hard supporters will not u- turn regardless whether TTB is bring them to Holland or not.

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > 2014-11-26 16:03 | Report Abuse

This is my last writing.

NOBY: everyone has to eat including the snake. If you don't like what he is offering you you should walk away. Just follow the rest thinking that this is a good stock when he just gives you good numbers like pe ratio of 10, roe of 23, no debts, and etc. You walk into a gangster's run bar also is like that, everything appears very beautifully, but in the end the boss is makan you. So walk away. My opinions from 2014 Annual Report:
(1) 1% shareholding implies he is not going to pay very high dividends to shareholders of the company for a very long time.
(2)Total revenue of 43 million comprised of selling assets of 30 million, interest income of 5.9 million, and dividend income of 6.9 million. Agains this amount of revenue he gives you a perfect number, which is expenses of 8.6 million, which is also 20% (8.6 million/43 millon).
(3)Bear this in mind, this is a 140 million share company and investors are inputing all the money into this company. The dividend paymemnt for your effort for buying shares in the company for the full year is 9.9 million.
(4) If you look carefully at the profit and loss and cash flow statement, of the 8.6 million expenses "don't know which fund managers" collected 6.2 million as advisory and management fees. The fund managers fees are just 8.6 million and shareholders dividends is 9.9 million, next time you go to AGM, please ask Tan Teng Boo for me, get it.

The fund is not underperforming. It is just paying a lot of money to the fund managers of "don't know who". All the numbers are perfect and you are tempted to buy shares in this company. I like to give a word to Investor KC Chong, if you think this is a snake company you have to walk away. You are so believing in numbers yourself and you tell people in your articles to be careful of accounting gimmicks. It shows that you are not that experienced and "wake-up" person even though you may have the loudest voice and greatest publicity of all. How can you say this is a good company by only believing in the numbers?

Posted by walau2u > 2014-11-26 16:11 | Report Abuse

Uncle Kian Leong Lim, so fast leaving ah, "This is my last writing".
Why not debate constructively here, we all are here learning also?
walau2 tis uncle.

Posted by Kevin Wong > 2014-11-26 16:20 | Report Abuse

I think most of TTB's supporters worship $$$ more than him, thus so lonng as he able to make money for 'em, he can count on their loyalty!

Posted by sunztzhe > 2014-11-26 16:24 | Report Abuse

Lim Kian Leong,
Hiyah Kian Leong..you are the one who is too idealistic and too stubborn maybe too arrogant...come on Lim Kian Leong...be pragmatic and be practical...if you continue in your idealistic stubborn and arrogant ways, you will surely be kicked out by the shareholders...be humble lah...why hold onto your stubborn , arrogant yet idealistic investment philosophy which you had shown underperformance when you could easily have a frank open discussion with i3Cap shareholders, get their feedback and make a proposal on investment based on the different investment disciplines for next year....just say sorry I have disappointed all of you as I had underperformed but I am willing to listen to all of you and I also realized that there are also different investment disciplines that accord investment opportunities in a conservative way that iCap can pursue...thereafter recruit talented investment analysts (if hot pretty girls are very capable in investment analysis, why not?) to do the job to invest as per the various investment philosophies

Have an interactive joint discussion with the i3cap shareholders and allocate certain % of i3cap capital for the different investment philosophies that are conservative....why cling onto your stubborn, arrogant and non inclusive investment style which had underperformed and which open up yourself up to attacks when you could easily have practiced the art of Tai Chi investment to get iCap shareholders on your side?? Do you want to still keep your job
?

Please remember you are working in a job...you must behave like a humble employee and not act like a big boss...

Posted by NOBY > 2014-11-26 16:41 | Report Abuse

Kian Leong, I guess you miss the point of this article and keep harping on the earnings etc. Btw, I m not a shareholder of ICAP but just an observer giving some comments. The catalyst for the share price here comes in the form of activist investors like Laxey partners with the hope that they can force the fund manager to act to narrow the fund NAV... this is possible due to fragmented nature of the fund, there are no major / controlling shareholders.... so I would say possibility of NAV discount narrowing is higher the those other example you give like SBAGAN where the shares are too tightly held.

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 16:47 | Report Abuse

Noby,
TTB wants his puppet directors, no competent boards of directors just like no boass around, Of course, shameless TTB will "eat snake" as suggested by Lim Kian Leong.

Posted by stockoperator > 2014-11-26 16:47 | Report Abuse

there is line difference between investing funds and Business Entity.

It is perceivable for company like Pintaras, Padini or FimaCor to keep over Rm100 million just in cash But as an investing funds icap is keeping more than RM200 million whereas the company setup is investing Not doing Business.

Needless to say right or wrong. Market has a final say and has worked its wonders. DCF model has discounted most of its cash as it assumes big portion of it will not be used for quite sometimes.

Posted by MG9231 > 2014-11-26 16:57 | Report Abuse

I guess,the boss of Pintaras Bhd listened to the advices from his Fund managers while at that pertinent time,construction activities also down. With shareholders interest in mind, he was rightly deplyoed company's money and let fund managers invest heavily in equity market.
If I did not remember wrongly, he said it very clearly in sta-paper during the AGM of 2009 or 2010, asked the shareholders to be patient with him and if the cash in hand was not generated a fair returns, he didn't mind to propose a capital repayment.