Posted by tabularasa > 2016-02-20 23:34 | Report Abuse

Chong, I agree with you on your stance on margin calls, it should never be used by newbies.

Even experienced investors can loss everthing in a major recession if they don't close their leverage in time or they are caught in small and illiquid stocks.

Posted by soros228 > 2016-02-20 23:35 | Report Abuse

Well said rasa.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-20 23:36 | Report Abuse

Yeah, i bet icon and duit also use margin.

Posted by duitKWSPkita > 2016-02-20 23:37 | Report Abuse

dont fight dont fight!!!!!!!!!!!

duit KWSP kita akan menikmati dividen sebanyak 6.40% untuk penyumbangan tahun 2015.............

Kami menyistiharkan jumlah sebanyak RM38.24 billion untuk pembayaran tersebut.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-20 23:37 | Report Abuse

tabularasa,

I said historically the CAGR of equity is about 10%, and that has been true for the past (although it may not, I say may not, be true for the future). How can a fixed income of 7% beats an equity investment giving a CAGR of 10%?

We don't use average return to give a return. That is the gimmicks used by unit trust agent, and also your fixed income fund manager.

The example given by your fixed income manager is probably from a selected 10-year period, a short period, not a 100 year statistics used by academic research. Your selected 10-year period is used to deceive you.

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-20 23:40 | Report Abuse

tabularasa
34 posts
Posted by tabularasa > Feb 20, 2016 11:01 PM | Report Abuse

In times of uncertainty, thank God for the good people over at EPF.



Anyone who wants to do more savings should just contribute more to EPF.......


I also cannot unit trust salesmen who over promise and under deliver when they keep pestering youngsters for their business.....with smooth exponential curves.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-20 23:41 | Report Abuse

tabularasa,

Stock for the long run.

http://www.riosmauricio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Siegel_Stocks-For-The-Long-Run.pdf

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-20 23:46 | Report Abuse

It is aggressive to assume 7% yield from fixed income

The credit must be crap

Posted by kcchongnz > Feb 20, 2016 11:37 PM | Report Abuse

tabularasa,

I said historically the CAGR of equity is about 10%, and that has been true for the past (although it may not, I say may not, be true for the future). How can a fixed income of 7% beats an equity investment giving a CAGR of 10%?

We don't use average return to give a return. That is the gimmicks used by unit trust agent, and also your fixed income fund manager.

The example given by your fixed income manager is probably from a selected 10-year period, a short period, not a 100 year statistics used by academic research. Your selected 10-year period is used to deceive you.

Posted by tabularasa > 2016-02-20 23:48 | Report Abuse

Thanks for sharing the book, will read it.

And yes, perhaps the fixed income manager carefully chose his 10 year period to make his point. It just that I have never thought of fixed income as being able to beat equities due to its consistency.

Food for thought...

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-20 23:48 | Report Abuse

Aiya, using margin must be within own understanding Loh. Doesnt mean young and beginner d9 nt use mah. How u know if tht person is a finance top student and understand exactly how margin works? I learn margin dur8 ng my University times, i score A for financd economic modules also.
But since i am kiasi type, i nvr touch margin, Not tgt i dunno but i dun like only. So you cant say because a young person dun use margin is good investor. It is fundamental ly wrong.

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-20 23:49 | Report Abuse

In the long run, everyone is dead.

And stocks for the long run I also find it is a cliches that people use when their recommendations went wrong.
.....lol.

Posted by duitKWSPkita > 2016-02-20 23:50 | Report Abuse

One sincere last words and then I will delete all mine...............

Desa bro: Sorry if I had offended you. My bad. Just want everyone fren fren in i3 nothing else... I wish you Happy New Year and doing well in trading ....

My respected KC CHONG, once again sorry to disturb and polluted your thread with my idiotic & silly comments. I shall delete it and return the harmony ground to you all.... I wish you happy always and profiting in every field .............

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-20 23:50 | Report Abuse

Or another way, an experience investors can then use margin? What basis justified tht? So a savvy investors using margin is considerably better than a young investor not using margin? Mana logic??? I really ada logic u all use?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-20 23:52 | Report Abuse

Posted by Icon8888 > Feb 20, 2016 11:46 PM | Report Abuse
It is aggressive to assume 7% yield from fixed income
The credit must be crap

It is likely a structured product with the "expected return" of a small component of it, not a promised return from a credit worthy establishment.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-02-20 23:53 | Report Abuse

This market just need to reboot again just like 1930, may be a 100 years once a time major recession, when it get cheapen, all the fundamental will run naked on the surface without much complex study to see its value.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-20 23:55 | Report Abuse

Posted by Desa20201956 > Feb 20, 2016 11:33 PM | Report Abuse
paperplane2016
2068 posts
Posted by paperplane2016 > Feb 20, 2016 11:25 PM | Report Abuse
It is common for tycoon etc to use margin lah. Even cold rye also use It mah. Surprise this kc so over reacting?
Exactly.......no one has been able to show me a tycoon a businessman who doesn't use borrowings.
Yet....all these idiots here go off on a tangent.


"Borrowing" for what? Aren't we talk about margin finance for buying stocks?

Put it another way, which other "tycoons" use margin finance? Please tell.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-20 23:56 | Report Abuse

Hi icon. Comcorp burst Liao, how? Lose how many k ??

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-20 23:58 | Report Abuse

KC chongnz, billionaire investors cold eye use margin, pls verify your facts. Go study more bursa annual RPT, it is stated there.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-20 23:59 | Report Abuse

Posted by Desa20201956 > Feb 20, 2016 11:49 PM | Report Abuse
In the long run, everyone is dead.
And stocks for the long run I also find it is a cliches that people use when their recommendations went wrong.
.....lol.


Which "people use when their recommendations went wrong."? What "recommendations"? What went wrong?

Don't you think you just made sweeping statements?

Posted by tabularasa > 2016-02-20 23:59 | Report Abuse

Posted by Icon8888 > Feb 20, 2016 11:46 PM | Report Abuse
It is aggressive to assume 7% yield from fixed income
The credit must be crap

Howard Marks specialises in high yields and have make outsized returns over the years, where people will not normally touch. :-)

2nd level thinking maaa

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:00 | Report Abuse

William Cheng, perwaja steel bosses, ioicorp etc all use margin financing......who wanna add more to enlighten this KC friend here?

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:01 | Report Abuse

Oh yeah, almost all hedge funds manager billionaire, they use margin finance to short or long shares also. Soros, Dalio, einhorn,etc....too long the list. How???

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-21 00:04 | Report Abuse

Posted by paperplane2016 > Feb 20, 2016 11:58 PM | Report Abuse
KC chongnz, billionaire investors cold eye use margin, pls verify your facts. Go study more bursa annual RPT, it is stated there.


Paperplane2016,

Don't you understand what i have said? i don't care if Coldeye uses margin finance or not, because first of all, he doesn't go around and tell everyone he uses it and makes tons of money. Secondly, I don't give a damn if he uses or not. There are many other people I respect use margin finance I believe. It is none of my business.

What I cannot stand is keep on propagating and promoting this thingy to the younger generation, and newbies. It is bad for the society.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:04 | Report Abuse

Icon, I like margin call, that movie. You watch?

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:07 | Report Abuse

Why not? KC, understand this way then! I rather my son or daughter don't understand what is sex so they don't get ppl pregnant too early or not pregnant too early???

Or rather you should teach them how to use condom??? Or other methods to tackle issues?

Sooner or later a young generation will be lured to use margin, why no educate them now how it works? I NVR saw kyy asking and promoting it without advising them to understand how margin works. He only giving views where how can one get faster or nearer faster way. Of course with full understanding how it works.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-21 00:08 | Report Abuse

Posted by tabularasa > Feb 20, 2016 11:59 PM | Report Abuse
Posted by Icon8888 > Feb 20, 2016 11:46 PM | Report Abuse
It is aggressive to assume 7% yield from fixed income
The credit must be crap
Howard Marks specialises in high yields and have make outsized returns over the years, where people will not normally touch. :-)
2nd level thinking maaa


You are right tabularasa, but bear in mind your fixed income fund managers you mentioned are not Howard Marks. Besides it is not a fixed income like fixed deposit in bank. It is a risky asset, the same as equity.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:09 | Report Abuse

High yields bond is small in msia lah, forget it.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:12 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Feb 20, 2016 10:33 AM | Report Abuse

A margin owner need to bear in mind potential margin call....whenever share market drop or banks change their policy, capping and valuation of the security loh.....!!

Using margin is not itself bad, it is the skill and how use it, that determine whether u are competent to use it mah.....!!

Margin is just bank borrowings.....for shares, why should we avoid not plague....learn how to use it, master it..this will offer u monies making opportunity loh.....!!

Just like business loan.....why business man borrow ??

This applies to housing loan too....why should u borrow to buy a house, what happen u lose your job....u may not able to service your housing loan....in case u cannot get back another good job....!!

All loan has risk loh.....not only margin loan mah...!!

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:13 | Report Abuse

buying junk bonds better than buying good second liners ? Can't see the logic.

Posted by tabularasa > Feb 20, 2016 11:59 PM | Report Abuse

Posted by Icon8888 > Feb 20, 2016 11:46 PM | Report Abuse
It is aggressive to assume 7% yield from fixed income
The credit must be crap

Howard Marks specialises in high yields and have make outsized returns over the years, where people will not normally touch. :-)

2nd level thinking maaa

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:13 | Report Abuse

Stock raider bro provide a fair view here loh. Danger comes only when u dunno what you doing Mah. So if you don't know your doing, even buy share without margin is dangerous also Mah right

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-21 00:15 | Report Abuse

Posted by paperplane2016 > Feb 21, 2016 12:07 AM | Report Abuse

Why not? KC, understand this way then! I rather my son or daughter don't understand what is sex so they don't get ppl pregnant too early or not pregnant too early???

Or rather you should teach them how to use condom??? Or other methods to tackle issues?

Sooner or later a young generation will be lured to use margin, why no educate them now how it works? I NVR saw kyy asking and promoting it without advising them to understand how margin works. He only giving views where how can one get faster or nearer faster way. Of course with full understanding how it works.



Would you rather tell your daughter not to simply have sex with everyone and everywhere, or never mind lah as long as you know how to use condom?

Is it okay to tell youngsters to f around and it is okay if they know how to use condoms?

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:22 | Report Abuse

KC choing NZ, you have kids? U think your kids wanna listen when they at their rebellious yrs? The world had changed, so shld parents. They get tons of info nowadays in YouTube, websites etc. I will not tell my kids he shld not have sex blah blah blah. I will only tell he or she they are responsible efor their own action, and wear condom in having sex. If got pregnant or make ppl pregnant, they have to take full responsibility as action from them.

Same goes with margin. Ppl wanna play margin tephey bear their own responsibility

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-02-21 00:26 | Report Abuse

By the way, I prefer having sex ard yeah! Kekeke. I rather fuck a few knowing who suite me best as wife rather than having wife not fucked prior then regret for whole life then go out to find prostitute to fuk later on or divorce to get another non fuk gf again?? Duh?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-21 00:34 | Report Abuse

Posted by paperplane2016 > Feb 21, 2016 12:26 AM | Report Abuse
By the way, I prefer having sex ard yeah! Kekeke. I rather fuck a few knowing who suite me best as wife rather than having wife not fucked prior then regret for whole life then go out to find prostitute to fuk later on or divorce to get another non fuk gf again?? Duh?

Me: It is the same thing.You f anybody I don't give a damn. It is none of my business.

But certainly I won't tell my children to go do this thingy everywhere with condom. At least I tell them what is right and what is wrong. Te same goes with margin financing. I won't tell them to use margin to speculate in the market with care. I will tell them to avoid margin financing. I care about the future of my kids. Don't you?


Posted by paperplane2016 > Feb 21, 2016 12:22 AM | Report Abuse

KC choing NZ, you have kids? U think your kids wanna listen when they at their rebellious yrs? The world had changed, so shld parents. They get tons of info nowadays in YouTube, websites etc. I will not tell my kids he shld not have sex blah blah blah. I will only tell he or she they are responsible efor their own action, and wear condom in having sex. If got pregnant or make ppl pregnant, they have to take full responsibility as action from them.

Same goes with margin. Ppl wanna play margin tephey bear their own responsibility

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:40 | Report Abuse

paperplane tried to explain to KC why he f his wife, but KC not keen to know

"Spare me the details"

Am I correct ?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-02-21 00:40 | Report Abuse

Posted by ks55 > Feb 21, 2016 12:17 AM | Report Abuse
Big man won't bully small boy.
So kcchongnz should let him free..............


ks55 my friend. No, I don't bully anybody, have I?

He came to my thread which discuss about margin finance, compounding, diversification etc. and trying to insult me.

I just want to discuss and debate with him about issues which he is trying to ridicule me, nothing personal.

I am also entitled to defend myself, don't I?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:46 | Report Abuse

I pity KC. Can clearly sense that he is not comfortable with paperplane shoving all these private bedroom details down his throat...

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:50 | Report Abuse

To be honest , I didn't see that coming... We were talking about stocks, and he started talking how he f his wife... I was stunned...

Koon Bee
11 posts
Posted by Koon Bee > Feb 21, 2016 12:48 AM | Report Abuse

Uncle Kyy show of his margin account

Desa show off how he plp

Paperplane the greatest show off how he fxxk his wife...hahaha

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:52 | Report Abuse

Thanks Koon bee, well done.

I would suggest to Duit to include one more award "Comment of the Year"

Discussing his own wife in a (midnight) forum like this... Seriously, what is in his mind ?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:56 | Report Abuse

Looked like he is contemplating divorcing his wife ? Oh dear... Do we really need to know all these details ?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 00:58 | Report Abuse

Koon bee it virtually drops on our lap

I still cannot believe you and I are so lucky...

Sell bjcorp on Monday. Who cares about Vietnam lottery ? We hit jackpot tonight..

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-02-21 01:00 | Report Abuse

Ha ha Koon bee my dear friend, good night

Today has been a rather fruitful day

I will smile in my dream...

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-21 01:23 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-21 01:26 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-21 01:29 | Report Abuse

Kyy is too smart for ks55 and gang
I am too smart for Ks55 and gang.....

How can a turtle understand how an eagle fly?
It's just impossible.

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-21 01:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-21 01:41 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by buddyinvest > 2016-02-21 01:46 | Report Abuse

Desa20201956, jangan gelojoh. Perlu jaga tertib. Makin panjang hang menulis, makin terserlah otak udang hang itu. Jangan-jangan satu hari nanti Uncle K tarik balik jemputan makan malam. Baru pandan muka.

Posted by Bandar20201965 > 2016-02-21 01:46 | Report Abuse

Uncle Desa, i already mail your letter today. The posman promise to hand delivery to KYY. Hope KYY will saliva reading your letter.

Posted by Desa20201956 > 2016-02-21 01:53 | Report Abuse

If you fellows lost all your money.....just blame your luck and your own incompetence.......