Posted by sekha > 2017-04-06 20:58 | Report Abuse

Great sharing from KC Chong. I've learn something today.

Posted by keke > 2017-04-06 21:01 | Report Abuse

again nice write up...to beat the benchmark, u need to find good undervalued stock...if portfolio full with fully valued blue chip, the best your return is on par with benchmark...but still better then sailang into hot stock and turn out to be on the wrong side, die kiaw kiaw..

Posted by cheoky > 2017-04-06 21:01 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by resilient911 > 2017-04-06 22:02 | Report Abuse

Genting not an good investment, the basic revenue is stagnant around 4 ~ 5 billions each quarter from year 2011 ~ 2016 (this lead to annual revenue remain at ~18 billions (what? no growth at all!!). Their earning / profit was depressed with stagnant revenue and higher expenses cost. Mostly due to conventional gaming less attractive compare to mobile apps gaming :(

Walau, 21st century is IoT. Come on Genting, please transform.

End up to sell their losing operation in HK 1.3 billion reported in 4th Q2016 "Profit before tax in 4Q16 at RM2,771.7 million increased significantly compared with 4Q15’s profit of
RM726.7 million due mainly to the one-off gain of approximately RM1.3 billion arising from the disposal
of the Group's investment in Genting Hong Kong Limited (“GENHK”)."

With this basic, Genting is one of company to ignore even with "low market cap to EBITA ratio of 5." (maybe plugged from isaham = 6.4). If look at the RoE, quite pity with no future. Yes, we can invest if want buy Genting's asset :)

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2017-04-06 22:02 | Report Abuse

Investing is buy during 1998, 2008 and today 2017
:)
The rest of the time is waiting
Good or bad stock also can goes up

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 22:03 | Report Abuse

contrary to being sorchai....I am telling you the true Nature of this Value Investor....of all Value Investors in i3.

Small caps are small boats in the ocean. Small little wind sinks the boat or lift it to the sky. You are speculating it is the right wind.....KC's fancy formulas will not assure the direction of the wind, if it is a small cap.

Value investors, my foot...you are all speculators.



"you disappoint me.
Applying your fancy formulas on small cap stocks is like a carpenter with wrong tools.
A genuine value investor will recommend Genting with a market cap to EBITA ratio of 5. Apply your fancy formulas to a mature Company like Genting la."

Great quote.

Don't hang pig head to sell dog meat.

Leave the small caps to speculators and Dynamic Investors and their pivotal moments....sometimes panic moments too.

When Wall Street books talk about Value investors.....they also apply it to Companies with a few billion US$ market cap......with a long history with stability and reliability of accounts and forecast earnings.

Why? Because Value Investors are risk adverse. They hate risks. And your fancy formulas cannot work in a Dynamic Environment. You use terms like Margin of Safety...How I hate that term "margin of safety" as used by KC and raider and the rest of you.

Margin of safety infers a stable environment...like a mature IPP or a Bond. Prices and valuations of growth companies, small cap companies, are in a constant flux, too Dynamic for your formulas. For small caps, the only place you can talk about margin of safety is in the charts...and your own cut loss strategies. ....not in the earnings report, not in the Balance Sheet , not in your PE ratios, not in any of your fancy formulas...because garbage in garbage out.

You use maths and audited accounts for your valuations..you think it is numerical and therefore objective, ...it is still garbage in garbage out

Genting is different. Genting is stable, it is matured, You can talk about margin of safety and of valuations that don't differ much from person to person, from time to time.

Margin of safety my foot.....margin of safety means you want to avoid risk....even if you have bought a share at your desired prices, if the share go up 5%, it will drop off your margin of safety and you will quickly sell it off. ....you will never be successful.


Successful investors....like I do not wish to name who..............embrace risk, studies it , makes up his mind and bets big. Because successful investors know,
share market rewards those who take risk...and later proven correct
its called the risk premium.

Successful investors do not run away from risk.

In the case of Jaks, the risk is execution risks, and future events and is all about probabilities.

He endorses it, studies it and makes up his mind..and go big.

That is what I like about him.

The market rewards those who take risks and proven right later...that is what stock market is all about.

Posted by probability > 2017-04-06 22:06 | Report Abuse

omg..stockman dynamite exploded!

Posted by Jason33 > 2017-04-06 22:18 | Report Abuse

stockmanmy,

"In the case of Jaks, the risk is execution risks, and future events and is all about probabilities.

He endorses it, studies it and makes up his mind..and go big."



I heard he did the same before in mudajaya and the end result is ??? Did he hold 5 years?

Posted by marihom > 2017-04-06 22:22 | Report Abuse

no matter White cat or Black cat , can catch mouse is good cat...relax la...

Posted by Jason33 > 2017-04-06 22:24 | Report Abuse

I heard he had money, he had connection, he had insider information. it is different playing field. u promote his method to retail investor who don't have advantages as he has?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 22:25 | Report Abuse

jason

gains and losses are part of the game.

the whole idea is to make it in such a way that mistakes don't kill you, makes a killing when right.

can you do it.?..have you found a way?

if you can, you have a future and one day, you too can buy 30% of Jaks.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 22:32 | Report Abuse

I want you to embrace risk...think like an entreprenuer not like a Professor.



Jason33 I heard he had money, he had connection, he had insider information. it is different playing field. u promote his method to retail investor who don't have advantages as he has?

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-06 22:38 | Report Abuse

Jason,

Don listen to Mammy loh....investment is a serious business...it is not game loh....!!

If u invest Not to lose is very important loh....!!
U must understand...when u invest...it is not u alone invest...it is u, ur wife,and ur children also loh....!!
Ur whole family depended on u loh....!!
Their dally food, accomodation, education and well being all depended on u mah....!!

U need to be responsible when invest & do not gamble away loh...!!

If u fail...ur whole family will fail too loh...!!
So u cannot make too many silly mistake mah...!!

Thats why u need value & fundamental investment with margin of safety & not gut feeling gambling as advocated by mammy loh....!!

Btw...Jaks...is just a rubbish...overvalue counter..with no margin of safety promoted by conman KYY loh....!!

Posted by Jason33 > 2017-04-06 23:02 | Report Abuse

stockraider,

i buy value investing method and stick with it. so far so good.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 23:27 | Report Abuse

well, Jason

you are surrounded by propaganda your whole life.

further writings here.

Negative news sells,
Insurance agents and financial advisers will tell you to save money ( so you can have money to buy their products)
Investment books will tell you to be prudent and conservative...and save money.

Turn on the radio, read the papers, you are surrounded by negative news and people asking you to save money.

If you want to be super investor, you have to beat your own path.......that risk is not to be avoided at all cost. Afetr all, no risk means no gain.


The stock market rewards you for taking on risk and later proven correct. ....that is what it is all about.


http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/600092114.jsp

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 23:36 | Report Abuse

Jason

Do you know Warren Buffet bet the farm, borrowed money from friends and relatives to buy into Berkshire Hathaway...sailang all the way into a bankrupt textile company.?

WB talks through both sides of his mouth....tell people to buy Index Funds , but he himself have been a sailang investor all his life.

Posted by yenhui_koh > 2017-04-07 00:13 | Report Abuse

One does not simply embrace risk without knowing the rewards are better.

It's ok that you don't see value investing as a nice tool to build long term wealth. But referring to your "good business, good people and good price", assume you already have a sustainable and profitable method to identify the good business + good management, do you mind to share how do you decide if it's at good price to enter? And to what extent you should sell your holdings? I believe you have the generousity to share, right?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 00:33 | Report Abuse

yue.....

you built that knowledge by associating with proven successful people.....

you associate with raider, you will never make it.

Posted by probability > 2017-04-07 00:49 | Report Abuse

The only justification for one to go for a high risk high gain investment (or any activity)... compared to low risk low gain has to do with your competence on knowing what you are doing....its directly proportional to 'how skillful and experienced you are'...how much you know on what you are doing.

a person who can walk easily on a rope between two rooftop of buildings dont mind doing it even for a small reward...because he is god damn sure what he is doing.

High risk high return then becomes high probability of correctness with high return act.

The chances of potential risk(downside) taking place is reduced with your skills and knowledge.

But so far... neither stockman nor KYY had exhibited how these special knowledge or skills can be acquired. They had only propagated the idea of taking risks..and having higher greed....but never taken the responsibility to advise on how one can mitigate the risks.

On contrary KC is advocating how one can acquire some level of special skills and be rewarded accordingly...though it may not appear as a high gain for some...the magnitude of the reward becomes significantly amplified if one does it correctly consistently.

This is obviously a better choice than high risk high gain act...blindly...not for once..but consistently for a long period.
(its equivalent to suicide...if we apply to the walking on the rope example right?).

Posted by urmomcrabs > 2017-04-07 00:55 | Report Abuse

wahhh nice reading plus nice heated argument. By the way, what is the reason to force someone buying into your idea on genting etc etc only consider as value investing or must be investing in high cap company only consider as value investing???? I dont get it and yes Im noob. I believe everyone define value investing in a different way.

Warren Buffet? Sailang all the way to bankrupt company?? White knight?? Sure or not? Are you Warren Buffet? How many percentage of book or blog write about him is true and not to make him look like got hand of midas then everyone will follow him?? Push become legend?

I know 2 way to sailang. First way - Go genting. Find table continuously open big for 9 times. Bet all include your family in small. Option 2 - sell everything include house, land, car, your pets, sailang it in your pick, price will push up 99 if you really loaded, operator also lose. Then everyone greed and go in. That time you sell it. Sure become legend as the greatest RISK PREMIUM taker in human history. Maybe a film will be produce namely "The meowth of Bursa".

For me, you look more likely to supporting pump and dump kind of person than the other person. Which person is which person. I dont know. You guess.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 00:59 | Report Abuse

I have been here one year...Never seen Raider make money on one single trade.

But got the nerve to defame, to spread fake news of a notable personality , a public figure who can buy 30% of Jaks.

If that is not track record, what is?

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2017-04-07 01:09 | Report Abuse

Wall long buffalo also dunno investing
He only know flip flop
See what he is doing

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 01:32 | Report Abuse

crabs

For KYY to make money on Jaks, Jaks will have to deliver. It is never about pump and dump. And, it will not happen immediately.

His money, his risk....not interested don't buy. , don't defame, don't spread fake news.


back to KC and his value investing...please la, have some common sense, don't apply his fancy formulas on a small company like Fibon with a million $ sales a month......is that a mamak stall or a listed company? Is that value investing or whacking a baby?


You want to trade, go and trade.....You do not need a PhD to trade Fibon....if it is garbage In, it is garbage Out.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 01:46 | Report Abuse

Value Investors are supposed to be prudent, supposed to be conservative, risk averse.

Genuine Value investors do not whack Ace Market counters and do not whack Fibon.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 02:14 | Report Abuse

Wall long buffalo also dunno investing
He only know flip flop
See what he is doing


its close, but not exactly.

Do you know Warren Buffet bet the farm, borrowed money from friends and relatives to buy into Berkshire Hathaway...sailang all the way into a bankrupt textile company.?

WB talks through both sides of his mouth....tell people to buy Index Funds , but he himself have been a sailang investor all his life.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-04-07 07:01 | Report Abuse

Posted by yenhui_koh > Apr 7, 2017 12:13 AM | Report Abuse
One does not simply embrace risk without knowing the rewards are better.
It's ok that you don't see value investing as a nice tool to build long term wealth. But referring to your "good business, good people and good price", assume you already have a sustainable and profitable method to identify the good business + good management, do you mind to share how do you decide if it's at good price to enter? And to what extent you should sell your holdings? I believe you have the generousity to share, right?


Stockmanny,

We are still waiting for your evaluation of Genting that you claimed is "fantastic undervalued".

Here are the data for you again,

Genting: data from Malaysiastock.biz

Share price: RM9.33


Revenue: About RM18 billion a year (very consistent over the last 5 years)
Trailing twelve months’ EPS = 57.21 sen
ROE 6.1%
Dividend per share: 12.5 sen
NTA: RM9.35


Please lah, I am sure you can do some simple arithmetic as an accountant. Just prove to us, at least once that you are indeed knowing something about investing.

I know all secondary students in accounting class can do it.

Posted by 3iii > 2017-04-07 07:15 | Report Abuse

Warren Buffett's investment into Berkshire Hathaway.

Berkshire Hathaway was a textile company. The textile industry was very competitive and capital intensive. The company was not doing well and it was available for a price below its net tangible asset value. Buffett bought into this company as his investing thinking of that time was very much Graham's value investing, buying a $1 asset for $0.50.

He soon realised how difficult the business was. He had an unpleasant encounter with a previous company which he bought, Dexter. He approached his investment into Berkshire slightly differently.

A failing or declining business can still generate cash flows. If he were to re-invest these into the same business, the return on his capital will be small and even negative. Being the smart asset allocator, Buffett took the cash flow from this company and deploy it in other assets that generate high returns on capital.

Over the years, the business of Berkshire faded and the core textile business was abandoned. However, the genius of Buffett shone in re-engineering Berkshire Hathaway into a fantastic company today.

Posted by 3iii > 2017-04-07 07:32 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2017-04-07 07:34 | Report Abuse

How intelligent is stockmanmy [stockman of malaysia :-) ] as an investor?

Should he park his money in index link low cost funds? ;=)

Posted by bracoli > 2017-04-07 09:02 | Report Abuse

hmmm
People would only see facts and figures.
Chart dontlie, Maths calculation metrics also dont lie.
People always lie. sometimes ever ponder badmouthing is even devilish than devil itself.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 09:19 | Report Abuse

People only see me as being impolite even sorchai.
Your money, your style.....there are lots of wisdom in what I wrote. Tried my best already.
Wisdom you wouldn't get from books...because books and authors have to conform to a certain accepted style.

Everyone to develop their own style....Value investors promoting Fibon and Ace Market is hanging pig heads to sell dog meat.

Stock market rewards those who take risk and later proven right....not because WB bought a company at 50% discount to NTA. Its about business sense and common sense...not about esoteric formulas and fancy formulas.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 09:24 | Report Abuse

Genting, of course , is a fantastic one for value investors. I don't need any calculation, its in the front pages of its Annual Report.......Its market cap to EBITA ratio is 5, trading close to its NTA.....meaning you get its dozens of casino license at book values, you get back your whole market cap in 5 years from earnings before interest and depreciation....and its a Blue Chip.

Value Investors are supposed to be prudent, supposed to be conservative, risk averse.

Genuine Value investors do not whack Ace Market counters and do not whack Fibon.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-07 09:35 | Report Abuse

What is problem of buying ACE mkt when u have margin of safety in the stock u buy leh ??

A good value investor....can choose not to discriminate on the type of mkt u buy loh, as long as they adhere to the guiding principle of good margin of safety mah.....!!

Posted by 稻田·* 片片绿青~粒粒芳香 > 2017-04-07 09:36 | Report Abuse

good morning super bull stockraider kor...

U ada baik kah?

Posted by Jonathan Keung > 2017-04-07 09:39 | Report Abuse

ace or main board is inmaterial. certain funds are constrained not investing into ace counters because of the size and maybe their track records.individual investors are not handicapped ( by this restriction ). if you spot a gem ! why not ( just my pesonal take on ace counters)

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 09:48 | Report Abuse

If you hang pig head to sell dog meat...you are not only cheating your customers, over the long run, you are cheating yourself.

And if you want to show success , you have to eliminate margin of safety as practised here in i3 from your thoughts. Otherwise, a share go up 5%, it already drop off your margin of safety and quickly sold it off already.

And if you want to get involved in the mid caps and small caps......the skills you learn such as margin of safety, and the esoteric formulas you learn in school has a much lesser role to play. Simply because garbage in garbage out.

Value investors employ a certain kind of skill.
Growth investors employ a different kind of skill.

Hanging pig head to sell dog meat, you are only handicapping your self.

Posted by stanley984 > 2017-04-07 09:55 | Report Abuse

you have my utmost respect kcchong! haters still gonna hate, you should probably ignored them.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-07 09:55 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 09:57 | Report Abuse

show me your track record raider.

I have been here 1 year....never seen you made a successful trade.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 10:00 | Report Abuse

of course stuffs picked up from a life time cannot be erased so easily.

But, if you want to make it a success, you pay attention to what I have written.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 10:22 | Report Abuse

There are good reasons why retirements on behalf of their conservative clients do not whack Ace Market counters and do not whack Fibon.....

but this raider keep only know how to hang pig head to sell dog meat.

Posted by yenhui_koh > 2017-04-07 10:40 | Report Abuse

Stockmanmy, I am not sure if you are interpreting correctly on the MOS, it is the difference between the intrinsic value and current share price in percentage, so I believe it is to be applied before you enter a counter. This is to provide a safety factor to your valuation, or in your term - is to understand if it is the right price to buy.

So what would happen if the price has gone up 5% as you mentioned? Does it mean that your MOS is lesser? Yes, but only if you are going to enter after the price hike and also getting the same valuation for that counter.

For those who have bought long ago, they should just check against the latest financial performance of the company to ensure their past valuations are still valid. If it's still valid, then the MOS become the potential profit margin! But let say if the company fundamental has started to deteriorate and intrinsic value drop(and probably near to the share price at that time), then one can consider to sell to take profit.

So, isnt this MOS a good approach, in your term -buying at the right price?

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2017-04-07 10:53 | Report Abuse

Wall lend bull fed now want to buy high and sell higher
He buy into Apple
:)

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 11:08 | Report Abuse

Wall lend bull is still good at his age.

But he is not what raider and popular books paints his image.....the image is a face....a cultivated face.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 11:14 | Report Abuse

yen....

first control the attitude...know thyself, a hundred battle fought, a hundred battles won.

of course if you go to battle over loaded with margin of safety.....it is a just dead weight that will slow you down.

if you keep fearing loss of money...you will lose money.

oh...and margin of safety.....after the stock go up 5 % , where is the 30 % margin of safety anymore?.....better sell fast la.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 11:19 | Report Abuse

the world is full of people hang pig head to sell dog meat...Don't ever believe them.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 11:23 | Report Abuse

One of the best trader in the world is George Soros and his Theory of Reflexivity.....

I always make fun of all the Value Investor sifus...they are all hanging pig head to sell dog meat.

Posted by MusangK1ng > 2017-04-07 11:27 | Report Abuse

WHEN YOU SPOT A MONSTROUS STOCK , GET IN EARLY AND BET THE FARM WITH DEFINED RISK. RIDE THE WAVE UNTIL THE TREND IS OVER.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-07 11:43 | Report Abuse

good advise and expecting Musang King.

Posted by popo92 > 2017-04-07 11:44 | Report Abuse

In fact, the biggest advantage for retailers over big players institution is choosing small cap stocks.