Posted by enigmatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 2020-06-12 22:05 | Report Abuse

Good luck sslee

Posted by Tom > 2020-06-12 22:54 | Report Abuse

last time chatao 木头人 sslee complained everything about hengyuan, now complaining about what again? lol

Posted by Tom > 2020-06-12 22:55 | Report Abuse

go home sleep la, naive uncle sslee....lol

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 07:02 | Report Abuse

Simpler alternative, stop being greedy yourself and avoid all of these "companies". Stop trying to think you are smarter than everyone else by picking "obvious" value. Do you really think investments is that easy? Let me point out your obvious greed.

1. Xinquan valuation of 100 million versus obvious 1 billion in cash.
2. Bjland valuation 850 million versus assets + hotel sales 4 billion.
3. Hengyuan( they paid 300 million to Shell refinery for 51%) 1 billion valuation versus crack spread 250 million earnings in 2017.
4. INSAS valuation of 400 million versus assets of 1.7 billion.

Do you see the level of your GREED here? You assume everyone else is blind or stupid and that you are wise and smarter than everyone else. You are ALWAYS trying to hit the ball over the park, looking for these HOME RUN hits.

You are like the young executive hoping to get paid the general manager salary and job if he tries hard enough.

Problem is your investing skill is lacking. You use very simplified metrics. And you run around telling everybody which is better, holding 1 shares of INSAS is better than 1 share of INARI.

There are many people like you in my telegram group. The difference is that many of them are still very young and willing to learn. One of the basic skills I try to share is the math of statistical arbitrage, aka if it's too good to be true, then it probably isn't.

They can make mistakes. You can't.

So, please stop being greedy and learn how not to lose money instead. Case in point: avoid horrible management.

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-06-13 08:59 | Report Abuse

So can Supermax post rm700m profit in 2021?

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-06-13 09:11 | Report Abuse

Stanley will let u know in next q reporting in Aug...

Posted by VenFx > 2020-06-13 09:35 | Report Abuse

Interesting

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 09:56 | Report Abuse

Good morning Philip,
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke

You and I, both are once victims of frauds. The different is you are young and choose to hide in Sabah and make back your money by investing in QL and Topglov.

Me at my age, have saved enough for my family thus shares investment whether win or losses do not matter anymore thus I choose to stay and trying my best to fight thro’ the system to seek the truth and demand justices and fairness for the minority shareholders. And promote awareness what minority can do:

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/2019-03-02-story196085-Investment_Bloggers_day_I3.jsp
‘Nothing destroy the share value of the company faster than a self serving or a conman CEO and many people lose his/her life saving and some even commit suicide because of insider con job/scam. The conman/scammer get away with murder because good man do nothing until when the victim is his own family member or close friends then only they regret not doing something to stop or expose the scam.

We as minority shareholders are perfectly capable and able to stop it before it happen if we just care to attend AGM ask the hard questions and hold the BOD and external auditor accountable. Follow up and report any irregularities/red flags to SC/Bursa.

Do not live a life of regret, remorse and guilt like spider man (Peter Parker) due to his selfish misjudgment and let go a robber that he can easily caught, who later turn up as murderer of his Uncle Ben. Knowledge is power and with great power come great responsibility’
Y
ou wrote: https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/philip4/2019-02-04-story192361-Why_Pump_and_Dumpers_deserve_the_Death_Penalty.jsp
And emotional piece ‘Why Pump and Dumpers deserve the Death Penalty’

And I wrote about applicable laws
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/2019-02-07-story192627-The_lack_of_deterrent_sentencing_for_white_collar_crime_Whose_fault.jsp

So am I greedy? or am I trying to give back to society and make a difference for the good of all investors in Bursa?

Thank you

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 09:58 | Report Abuse

By the way.
Did I run around telling everybody which is better, holding 1 shares of INSAS is better than 1 share of INARI?
When I merely point out 3i mistakes
Posted by Sslee > Jun 10, 2020 9:13 PM | Report Abuse X
Dear all,
Inari shares held by Insas: Inari is one of the associate companies of Insas
(1) Insas Technology Berhad - 434,769,375
(2) Media Lang Limited - 66,016,500
(3) Insas Plaza Sdn Bhd - 114,367,700
(4) Montego Assets Limited - 200,000
Total: 615,353,575.00

Number of INSAS shares issued: 663,006,342 (excluding 30,327,291 treasury shares). One Insas share indirectly hold 615,353,575/663,006,342 = 0.928 Inari
Can 3iii answer the below question.

Why buying one Inari at RM1.71 when you can use the same money to buy 2.55 insas at 67 cents then you still indirectly hold 2.37 Inari and everything else in Insas?

Aren’t you the one running around telling people how smart you sold your 2 million Topglove for RM 17+ million and all the IB TP for glove stocks are nothing but pump and dump. So now care to do your calculation what will be Topglove next quarter NP?

Posted by EngineeringProfit > 2020-06-13 10:00 | Report Abuse

Just hold Inari better

Posted by ks55 > 2020-06-13 10:24 | Report Abuse

Sslee:
What have you learnt?
Ability to read and digest annual report is nothing compared with trustworthiness of certain characters when they are in control.
You know creative accounting?
You know layering in money laundry?
You know day light robbery in corporate world?
You know cheating with both eyes open?

Find out who are those characters you can never trust and avoid their counters at all cost.

Posted by EngineeringProfit > 2020-06-13 10:27 | Report Abuse

And all these ppl escape punishment, imprisonment and h*ll

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 10:33 | Report Abuse

Agreed with EngineeringProfit this is because good man do nothing. So who to blame?

Posted by Seek > 2020-06-13 10:45 | Report Abuse

Good job SSLee.

Posted by Lewis Lee > 2020-06-13 11:57 | Report Abuse

"So, please stop being greedy and learn how not to lose money instead. Case in point: avoid horrible management."
I think this is Philip's gist of advice to you ! His words sometimes can be harsh but with good intention to shake you up !
No point fighting with the corrupt / biased / flaw systems (especially in Malaysia, those systems are meant to make those tycoons rich !), just need to be extra cautious with the management ! If the good businesses are run by dishonest conmen, you will never be fairly rewarded, so avoid at all costs !
I think even KYY was conned by Xinquan after visiting their factories in China and checking with his relative who worked as their auditors !!

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 12:24 | Report Abuse

Dear Lewis Lee,
adjective: greedy; comparative adjective: greedier; superlative adjective: greediest
1. having or showing an intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth or power
2. excessively or inordinately desirous of wealth, profit, etc.; avaricious:

Again am I being greedy? When I invest in INSAS? Compare to the one invest in QL? When QL market cap: RM 14.910 billion but NP to SH for the past 5 financial year: (‘000)
225,430 : 215,682 : 206,820: 201,761: 195,940

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 12:34 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by judy > 2020-06-13 12:39 | Report Abuse

keep up the good job, Mr Sslee.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 12:49 | Report Abuse

SSlee pick on Xinguan is a very bad choice as kyy n sslee got conned, but sslee pick on Insas is a great choice for value investment loh...!!

Posted by Lewis Lee > Jun 13, 2020 11:57 AM | Report Abuse

"So, please stop being greedy and learn how not to lose money instead. Case in point: avoid horrible management."
I think this is Philip's gist of advice to you ! His words sometimes can be harsh but with good intention to shake you up !
No point fighting with the corrupt / biased / flaw systems (especially in Malaysia, those systems are meant to make those tycoons rich !), just need to be extra cautious with the management ! If the good businesses are run by dishonest conmen, you will never be fairly rewarded, so avoid at all costs !
I think even KYY was conned by Xinquan after visiting their factories in China and checking with his relative who worked as their auditors !!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 12:58 | Report Abuse

Again with simplified accounting.

Growth companies give up short term earnings for long term growth. You still look at market cap and pe only, why?

Look at the ROE versus peers
Look at the revenue and growth% over time versus peers
Look at the earnings and growth % over time versus peers
Look at the capex used versus long term returns, the history of rights issues and private placements versus growth of the business.

Look to the returns of their palm oil business and compare that with your area of competence, how does it compare?

Yes, I do think you are greedy because you want to "protect" shareholders, but you do not have the ability to really protect them as a Carl icahn corporate raider and straighten out businesses properly, but rather a mouse that cannot be heard with no capability.

You try to tell 3i what to do, but his results thus far seem to be better than yours.

Yes I think you are greedy. Instead of growing together with a company and being a part of their growth, your way of investing is the call Icahn way. Take a company, sell it for parts, and sell the business and walk away.

You had no understanding of Xinquan business but you buy it simply for its cash in bank.

You have no understanding of INSAS business or ever used it's services, and you buy it just because of its 1.7b in assets.

Always the same story. All you look at is assets assets assets. And you want to be like Icahn and tell the owners and managers of the company what to do. All you want is your dividends and your money.

How is that not greed? What you really want is to kill the fat hen for its eggs. Dividend, dividend, dividends.

That is pure greed.

Investors should be like those who buy Berkshire. They don't want to keep asking for dividends and money. But they like the feeling of being a part owner in a successful growing business that grows larger and larger over time and generates earnings. If those earnings turn into dividends or reinvestments do not matter, as long as the business does the best decisions for all the shareholders.

If I am investing in QL I look to participate in the growth of the business over time, growing revenues and earnings and assets. That is the job of a real investor and owner. Not to keep asking when they will be adding a dividend.

Maybe you are unhappy over the greed of management, taking far paychecks and stock options.

If so, they started the company. If you don't like it, start your own.


>>>>>>>>>

Again am I being greedy? When I invest in INSAS? Compare to the one invest in QL? When QL market cap: RM 14.910 billion but NP to SH for the past 5 financial year: (‘000)
225,430 : 215,682 : 206,820: 201,761: 195,940

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 13:05 | Report Abuse

As an engineer u r not capable on advice on margin of safety mah..!!

Why leh ??
If your current account have Rm 1m earning zero ROE and Zero earnings growth and some one offer to buy over your bank account for Rm 300k cash would u sell leh ??

OF COURSE NOT MAH...!!

BUT SOME SOHAI LIKE PHILIP & 3iii TELL PEOPLE TO SELL LOH...!!

U NEED TO HAVE COMMON SENSE MAH...!!

INSAS IS PRECISELY THE ABOVE CASH in the current account EXAMPLE MAH...!!

posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Jun 13, 2020 12:58 PM | Report Abuse

Again with simplified accounting.

Growth companies give up short term earnings for long term growth. You still look at market cap and pe only, why?

Look at the ROE versus peers
Look at the revenue and growth% over time versus peers
Look at the earnings and growth % over time versus peers
Look at the capex used versus long term returns, the history of rights issues and private placements versus growth of the business.

Look to the returns of their palm oil business and compare that with your area of competence, how does it compare?

Yes, I do think you are greedy because you want to "protect" shareholders, but you do not have the ability to really protect them as a Carl icahn corporate raider and straighten out businesses properly, but rather a mouse that cannot be heard with no capability.

You try to tell 3i what to do, but his results thus far seem to be better than yours.

Yes I think you are greedy. Instead of growing together with a company and being a part of their growth, your way of investing is the call Icahn way. Take a company, sell it for parts, and sell the business and walk away.

You had no understanding of Xinquan business but you buy it simply for its cash in bank.

You have no understanding of INSAS business or ever used it's services, and you buy it just because of its 1.7b in assets.

Always the same story. All you look at is assets assets assets. And you want to be like Icahn and tell the owners and managers of the company what to do. All you want is your dividends and your money.

How is that not greed? What you really want is to kill the fat hen for its eggs. Dividend, dividend, dividends.

That is pure greed.

Investors should be like those who buy Berkshire. They don't want to keep asking for dividends and money. But they like the feeling of being a part owner in a successful growing business that grows larger and larger over time and generates earnings. If those earnings turn into dividends or reinvestments do not matter, as long as the business does the best decisions for all the shareholders.

If I am investing in QL I look to participate in the growth of the business over time, growing revenues and earnings and assets. That is the job of a real investor and owner. Not to keep asking when they will be adding a dividend.

Maybe you are unhappy over the greed of management, taking far paychecks and stock options.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 13:11 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 13:17 | Report Abuse

Another misleading comment by sohai 3iii loh...!!

U need to understand Ben Graham investment time and now the margin of safety concept had not move loh...!! It is the same old thing bcos human behavior never change mah...!! Thus the concept is still applicable mah....!!

If u use Margin of safety investment u must be prepare to put monies like put in fixed deposits for 2 to 10 years for big payback mah...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jun 13, 2020 12:34 PM | Report Abuse X

If u read Benjamin Graham success investment story on value investment, he did describe that value investment really need time and patience to achieve substantial return mah..!!

He did quote his example of his Railway Investment where he invest substantial of his money bcos of deep undervalue with huge margin of safety and spend alot of time fighting with the management to unlock its value as an activist.

At the end he make a big killing on that stock even considering that time an exceptional long time about 10 years mah...!!

The Railway is an exceptional extreme example how value investment works mah....!!
And the degree of patience u need b4 u can reap very great rewards loh..!



Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jun 13, 2020 1:11 PM | Report Abuse

The problem with SSLee and some of his mentors is having a wrong concept of value investing. SSLee looks at P/BV and when it is "cheap", he gets excited and buys.

There is more to investing that just owning a company which is priced very low relative to its book value. Just look at Parkson, its price is very low compared to its book value.

The investing philosophy of Benjamin Graham has moved on since his books were first published. In his time, investors compared price to asset values. Over the years, many good and great companies have very little hard asset and yet are priced many times that of their assets. Warren Buffett just simply accepts the value of any asset is the discounted value of all its future cash flows. I use his concept in my valuation. There are many companies able to generate all lot of future free cash flows which are not asset heavy. Moving away from just looking at P/BV in your search for undervalued companies will open up a whole range of great companies for SSLee to invest into. These companies able to grow their intrinsic values over long time are generally safe and rewarding.

SSLee may not realise this. A severely high P/E stock (by SSLee definition, overvalued) can deliver great returns to its owners over the long term, and yet only available at very high P/E, for example, AMAZON. On the other hand, a low P/E stock of 5, over a long period of time, results in losses to its owners who bought it at this low PE. Based on this alone, do not think PE is the only ratio that determines your investing. Move on.

Move on. Look at both the qualitative and the quantitative parameters of the company. Understand the business of the company. Is this within your circle of competence? Do a SWOT analysis, and this need not be too comprehensive either, focusing on the most important issues. Study the quality of your company: its moats (durable competitive advantage), and its management (honesty, hardworking and intelligent). Do a simple projection of its business quality? Will its business be growing the next 10 years? Do a simple analysis of its present earnings and FCF? Great companies have consistent and growing revenues, earnings and FCF? For its given FCF, what would you pay to own this company TODAY? There is no need to project future FCF for the moment, just value what the company is worth today, without imputing any future growth first. Then if you must, you may impute some conservative growth estimates to derive at another value based on growth (at the same time introducing some speculative factors into the valuation).

To summarise: a company trades at a low PE or low P/B ratio for obvious reasons. It is more than likely, a low quality company. It is less than likely to be a cheap company. But those who do not wish to learn, continues to be misled and to bluff themselves, learning their investing the hard way, being burnt and roasted, with losses and much heartache. For those who stay with quality company, it is such fun to see the company continues to deliver positively year in and year out. Often, I "pat myself in the back" how lucky I am to be wired thus.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 13:22 | Report Abuse

I think I have enough of your nonsense. I will be arranging for 100 kids from St. Barnabas Home to enjoy bak kut teh at the end of the year. The total expenditure will be RM5,000. The results will be revealed in our 2 year bet on QL versus Insas.

So, if at the end of the period, you do not attend the bak kut teh lunch, I fully expect you to donate 5K to the charity home of St. Barnabas in Klang.

QL - 0.69 (today 9.17)
Insas - 0.69 (today 0.63)

How is your margin of safety now after 2 long year? For SSLEE it will be more than 3 years of him holding unto INSAS with his corporate raider concepts.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jun 13, 2020 1:05 PM | Report Abuse

As an engineer u r not capable on advice on margin of safety mah..!!

Why leh ??
If your current account have Rm 1m earning zero ROE and Zero earnings growth and some one offer to buy over your bank account for Rm 300k cash would u sell leh ??

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 13:27 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 13:33 | Report Abuse

I see positive changes in insas management, ever since SSLEE being a shareholder & had being communicating with the management mah....!!

Insas had given dividend of 2 sen dividend recently, this yield of 3% pa is even higher than dividend yield from QL or even Nestle.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jun 13, 2020 1:27 PM | Report Abuse

A stockbroker shared with me a story.

In an listed company AGM, a particular shareholder was most unhappy. He spoke for a long time, putting forward his grievances and angrily expressed dissatisfaction with the board of directors and managements. The Chairman of the meeting just listened and allowed him to vent his feelings. It went on for almost half an hour.
Then the meeting proceeded to the other agenda and concluded as planned.

The next year, at the same listed company AGM, the same shareholder was present. The issues remained. However, in this meeting, he did not speak and did not disrupt either.

What transpired? My stockbroker friend opined that after the earlier AGM, it was probable that so and so sent some 'friends" to have a chit-chat with the shareholder.

Unless, you are in a great position to initiate change, state your views and hopefully try to influence the major shareholders to see your point of view. To press matters too harshly, will only see you aggrieved since you do not hold the majority shares to influence the company significantly.

Posted by EngineeringProfit > 2020-06-13 13:34 | Report Abuse

Clap...Clap....Clap

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 13:40 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 13:44 | Report Abuse

Another sohai talk by Philip loh...!!

The bets is for bet on 1 year and 2 year performance in respect of QL v Insas v MNRB mah....!!

Whoever losses buy bah kut teh lunch....mah....!!

But year 1 result already out.1st is insas 2nd is MNRB and last was QL.

Now year 2 QL appear is leading loh...!!

Question

1. Does Philip honor the year 1 result ??

2. How did 100 kids from st barnabas come into the picture of the bet leh ??

Of course if Philip is prepare to honor, he foot the bills taking into account QL was last in the 1st year....then by all means, if he like bring the 100 kids along loh...!!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Jun 13, 2020 1:22 PM | Report Abuse

I think I have enough of your nonsense. I will be arranging for 100 kids from St. Barnabas Home to enjoy bak kut teh at the end of the year. The total expenditure will be RM5,000. The results will be revealed in our 2 year bet on QL versus Insas.

So, if at the end of the period, you do not attend the bak kut teh lunch, I fully expect you to donate 5K to the charity home of St. Barnabas in Klang.

QL - 0.69 (today 9.17)
Insas - 0.69 (today 0.63)

How is your margin of safety now after 2 long year? For SSLEE it will be more than 3 years of him holding unto INSAS with his corporate raider concepts.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 13:45 | Report Abuse

Why leh ??
If your current account have Rm 1m earning zero ROE and Zero earnings growth and some one offer to buy over your bank account for Rm 300k cash would u sell leh ??

OF COURSE NOT MAH...!!

BUT SOME SOHAI LIKE PHILIP & 3iii TELL PEOPLE TO SELL LOH...!!

U NEED TO HAVE COMMON SENSE MAH...!!

INSAS IS PRECISELY THE ABOVE CASH in the current account EXAMPLE MAH...!!

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jun 13, 2020 1:40 PM | Report Abuse

Let me give a real example. Company A is asset rich and also cash rich. Based on its number of shares outstanding, each share is worth RM 100.

However, it is non-listed limited company. The management is controlled by a particular family group which has managed the company extremely well. The shareholders are also rewarded with yearly dividends.

Now and again, a shareholder who maybe in need of cash wishes to sell some shares. All the other shareholders do not wish to buy for their own peculiar reasons. The only buyer is the controlling shareholder. His buying price is always about 50% lower than the worth of the share based on Asset value/outstanding share (book value). The selling shareholder has no choice but to accept this offer.

This company A is well managed and continues to grow value over the years. Remaining shareholders continue to grow their wealth in tandem. But should anyone wish to cash out, it is often at a very steep discount of 50%.


On the other hand, Insas is not company A. It is gruesome. Yes, its book value may at RM X. SSLee laments it should be worth RM X. Just like company A, Insas trades at a discount to its BV. But company A is well run and continues to grow intrinsic value. What about Insas?


Do you think Insas should not be priced at today's present price?

Posted by EngineeringProfit > 2020-06-13 13:48 | Report Abuse

In Bolehland, big sharkes need to be protected.....

......minority and bilis can be marginalized

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 14:10 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
You are hypocrite to demand CharlesT to show you how Supermax can earn 700 million per year to justified it market cap of RM 10+ billion but when ask to justified QL market cap of RM 14.91 billion what you can come out are:

As for QL valuation, you can see them start from 0 family Mart to 200+ family Mart in a few years and plans to challenge 7-11 2000+ stores with family Mart 1000+ stores target. This is a 10 year VERY achievable goal. Your gloves got 10 year achievable target of 700 million a year?

And Growth companies give up short term earnings for long term growth. You still look at market cap and pe only, why?
Look at the ROE versus peers
Look at the revenue and growth% over time versus peers
Look at the earnings and growth % over time versus peers
Look at the capex used versus long term returns, the history of rights issues and private placements versus growth of the business.
Look to the returns of their palm oil business and compare that with your area of competence, how does it compare?

You can refer teoct article below for your answers to QL growth story
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/teoct_blog/2020-04-25-story-h1506135...

Revenue generated from the asset deployed for the various segments. It does not look good at all. Palm oil is returning less than one ringgit (RM0.65) as well as marine products (0.88) while integrated livestock farming is above one ringgit (1.11)

The operating expenses to revenue are unfortunately increasing yearly. Diving into the cost make-up, the two biggest item is depreciation of PPE and staff costs.

QL does not generate enough cash (from operation) for investing in the necessary PPE. It takes loan and obviously the debt to equity ratio has been creeping up. Also, its ability to generate cash from operation is rather erratic (the blue line).

With all the above added together, the indication is that while gross margin is improving, the ever-lower staff productivity, low return of PPE plus increasing financing cost from higher debts all cut into the net margin that is now approaching 6%. The trend is, net margin will reduce further going forward.

The net profit growth rate is lower than the revenue growth rate in the past three years. Return on equity (ROE) is also on a down trend.

Supersaiyan had this to say about QL plantation in QL forum:
Oil palm is basically a failed investment (amenities too poor, no scale, not enough technical know-how etc) never generate enough returns.

And Stoickraider had these to say about peer comparison
QL is a conglomerate and consist of 4 types of business mah...!!
1. Chicken & egg business- bench mark against LHI pe 16.4
2. Palmoil business- benchmark against hapseng PE 18.1x
3. Retail business-benchmark against AEON PE 17.8x
4. Fish business- benchmark against charoaen Pokhand Pe 26x
Thus overall average PE of QL should be 19.5x or say 20x mah...!!
QL fair value should be as follows; Eps rm 0.15 x 20x = Rm 3.00.

So May I say your beautiful growth story of QL are nothing but a make believe story to appeal to human greed to help push up QL price further?

Thank you
PS: Please arrange for 100 kids from St. Barnabas Home to enjoy bak kut teh at next year CNY time. The total expenditure will be RM5,000 as I would like to join in and do not mind to foot the bill if stockraider do not turn up.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 14:11 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
You are respectable senior investor and I know you have old score to settle with your nemesis Stockraider but in your eagerness in settling the score please do not simply comment on INSAS when you have not even read INSAS annual report nor know what business INSAS involve in.

‘Insas today must be facing huge problem in its core businesses (hotels and car leasing businesses)’

Tell me since when INSAS core business is in hotels?

Thank you

Posted by SpartanFury > 2020-06-13 14:52 | Report Abuse

IMO, greed runs the market if people were not greedy then there would be no investments in the market.

That being said if we look at our current situation vaccine/gloves makes no difference. The covid stocks are all going to be pumped and there are going to be people left holding the bag at the end.

There is simply too many new retail investors playing in the market. And a recent study show that even older/wiser retail investors have actually increased their number of transactions by around 13.9%. The increase is attributed from covid lockdown boredom. The study also noted that the boredom mentality is what leads people to gambling addiction. In other words people aren't investing at this point but gambling.

It's true that greed overrides common sense. And the problem lies in too many people wanting to make a quick buck. Plus the recent volatility of the market has attracted a lot of newer investors who dont really have a plan besides let's double/triple my money. This has basically further exaggerated the market with higher highs and lower lows..

Recent news on Hertz is a good example of that. They filed for bankruptcy on May 22nd so by rights they are in liquidation mode and their shares are worthless.

But then for some reason retail investors on "robinhood" got fixated on it. And the share price went from usd 0.56 to usd 5.53 last week. At the end of the Thursday sell off it was at around USD 2.02 but on friday it's back to USD 2.83.

Hertz has applied to the court to issue about 250M new shares to take advantage of this situation. The funds raised would be used to finance the bankruptcy proceedings.

The crazy part is that this situation is not unique to Hertz. Other companies that declared bankruptcy also saw crazy interest such as JC Penney's (150%)and Whiting petroleum (800%).
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/robinhood-traders-bet-hertz-bankruptcy-stocks-despite-huge-risks-2020-6-1029292002


So yes in malaysia we speculate on covid related goods and then start these long debates on pe, eps, etc. We try to predict whether the glove sector will boom or bust in the next sector.

But the Americans made it simpler and just went straight for a bankrupt company.. no need to discuss future and pointless to dwell on the past.

Posted by SpartanFury > 2020-06-13 14:58 | Report Abuse

my point to the long post is it's fine to be greedy but you cant be "too" greedy.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 15:05 | Report Abuse

Yes greed drive the market the same way it drive politic. Everyone can be brought over if the price is right. The cash is king 'apa malu bossku' will be back soon.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 15:08 | Report Abuse

>>>>>

Sslee Dear 3iii,
You are respectable senior investor and I know you have old score to settle with your nemesis Stockraider but in your eagerness in settling the score please do not simply comment on INSAS when you have not even read INSAS annual report nor know what business INSAS involve in.

>>>>>


Please don't bring stockraider into this discussion with me. I find him rather dishonest and accordingly, shy away from his postings generally.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 15:22 | Report Abuse

This stockraider really dishonest, first he say 2 year bet because I am a long term investor, now suddenly say got 1 year bet and 2 year bet. Where got such thing 1 year bet and 2 year bet, there is only 1 long term investment bet of 2 years to get long term value investing results.

As usual, talk a lot of bullshit, but when time to show up you only bark like a dog but no balls to cover your bet. Wasting time.

Nevermind, people like you forever like that.

>>>>>>>

stockraider Another sohai talk by Philip loh...!!

The bets is for bet on 1 year and 2 year performance in respect of QL v Insas v MNRB mah....!!

Whoever losses buy bah kut teh lunch....mah....!!

But year 1 result already out.1st is insas 2nd is MNRB and last was QL.

Now year 2 QL appear is leading loh...!!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 15:48 | Report Abuse

What do I care about Topglove NEXT quarter NP, I am looking at the long term business prospects of topglove if I buy it as such high valuations based on prices sold during this covid period. But you didn't even buy topglove and even said it buy high PE stocks to be silly, so I don't expect you to even care how to value quality stocks. So why should I give you my long term intrinsic value calculations for topglove?

>>>>>>>

Aren’t you the one running around telling people how smart you sold your 2 million Topglove for RM 17+ million and all the IB TP for glove stocks are nothing but pump and dump. So now care to do your calculation what will be Topglove next quarter NP?
13/06/2020 9:58 AM

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 15:49 | Report Abuse

Now replace that with SSLEE and his many companies that he bought and gambled on like insas, xinquan, hengyuan etc etc etc. He has yet to realize what treating you like a partner in the company means.

>>>>>>>>


seawave I fully understand this situation, I have inherited a non listed company's shares which my parent hold for decades. The company only wish to buy back my shares at a fraction of the real value. No doubt, the dividends are not bad compared to the listed company; but I cant cash out with reasonable value.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jun 13, 2020 1:40 PM | Report Abuse

Let me give a real example. Company A is asset rich and also cash rich. Based on its number of shares outstanding, each share is worth RM 100.

However, it is non-listed limited company. The management is controlled by a particular family group which has managed the company extremely well. The shareholders are also rewarded with yearly dividends.
13/06/2020 2:13 PM

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-06-13 16:01 | Report Abuse

When I say greed, what I mean is not in a capitalistic way of making money and participating in a company growth. That is natural investing.

When I say greed, it is those who are blinded simply by the sound of money and assets and jump right into something without looking beyond their nose and asking the relevant question:

WHY IS IT SO CHEAP?

Sslee keeps falling into this same problem. He knows how to ask the other questions like WHY IS QL SO EXPENSIVE. And yet, he doesn't invert and ask the question: WHY IS INSAS, BJLAND, TAGB, ETC ETC SO CHEAP?

That is how I term greed. When you don't look where you step, and just rush into an investment after cursory looks at the financial statements and balance sheet and comparing market cap and asset value.

Come on, EVERYONE HERE IN THE FORUM HAS READ ABOUT WARREN BUFFET AND BEN GRAHAM AND THE CONCEPT OF VALUE INVESTING.

Why does not of the VALUE INVESTORS even touch investments like INSAS, BJLAND, HENGYUAN etc?

Thats the question you should be asking.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 16:15 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 16:22 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 16:42 | Report Abuse

Sohai 3iii,

Stop diverting & giving stupid excuse lah...!!

Just be honest & apologise to sslee that u did not do proper work on insas b4 making your stupid comment on insas mah...!!


Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jun 13, 2020 3:08 PM | Report Abuse

>>>>>

Sslee Dear 3iii,
You are respectable senior investor and I know you have old score to settle with your nemesis Stockraider but in your eagerness in settling the score please do not simply comment on INSAS when you have not even read INSAS annual report nor know what business INSAS involve in.

>>>>>


Please don't bring stockraider into this discussion with me. I find him rather dishonest and accordingly, shy away from his postings generally.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 16:47 | Report Abuse

Fuck lah...philip u go & check back our agreement mah...!!

We have 2 tier bet on performance for year 1 & year 2 all agree between u, me and charles mah...!!

U being dishonest after losing year 1 bets mah...!!

Now u try to twist the fact loh...!!

If u disagree u should highlight from the beginning & not now mah...!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Jun 13, 2020 3:22 PM | Report Abuse

This stockraider really dishonest, first he say 2 year bet because I am a long term investor, now suddenly say got 1 year bet and 2 year bet. Where got such thing 1 year bet and 2 year bet, there is only 1 long term investment bet of 2 years to get long term value investing results.

As usual, talk a lot of bullshit, but when time to show up you only bark like a dog but no balls to cover your bet. Wasting time.

Nevermind, people like you forever like that.

>>>>>>>

stockraider Another sohai talk by Philip loh...!!

The bets is for bet on 1 year and 2 year performance in respect of QL v Insas v MNRB mah....!!

Whoever losses buy bah kut teh lunch....mah....!!

But year 1 result already out.1st is insas 2nd is MNRB and last was QL.

Now year 2 QL appear is leading loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 16:51 | Report Abuse

This seawee is a sohai loh...!!

Warren buffet will love a company that give u regular good dividend even it is unlisted mah....!!

Why do u want to sell leh ??

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Jun 13, 2020 3:49 PM | Report Abuse

Now replace that with SSLEE and his many companies that he bought and gambled on like insas, xinquan, hengyuan etc etc etc. He has yet to realize what treating you like a partner in the company means.

>>>>>>>>


seawave I fully understand this situation, I have inherited a non listed company's shares which my parent hold for decades. The company only wish to buy back my shares at a fraction of the real value. No doubt, the dividends are not bad compared to the listed company; but I cant cash out with reasonable value.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Jun 13, 2020 1:40 PM | Report Abuse

Let me give a real example. Company A is asset rich and also cash rich. Based on its number of shares outstanding, each share is worth RM 100.

However, it is non-listed limited company. The management is controlled by a particular family group which has managed the company extremely well. The shareholders are also rewarded with yearly dividends.
13/06/2020 2:13 PM

Posted by stockraider > 2020-06-13 16:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-06-13 17:15 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
Storytelling has allowed humans to cooperate, communicate and create a set of shared belief and shared value. When beliefs/values fail us though – when they foster prejudice and polarizing – they no longer help us navigate our world. What should we do? Can we possibilities of coming together and make a difference?

‘Knowledge is power and with great power come great responsibility. I am just trying my best to fight thro’ the system to seek the truth and demand justices and fairness for the minority shareholders. And promote awareness shareholders to be prepared and participate effectively at an Annual General Meeting, ask the hard questions and hold the BOD and external auditor accountable. Follow up and report any irregularities/red flags to SC/Bursa.

Shouldn’t reasonable people welcome my move rather than telling story insinuate me been brought over “The next year, at the same listed company AGM, the same shareholder was present. The issues remained. However, in this meeting, he did not speak and did not disrupt either.
What transpired? My stockbroker friend opined that after the earlier AGM, it was probable that so and so sent some 'friends" to have a chit-chat with the shareholder”?

Or laugh at my bad investment in Xingquan and Hengyuan. For Hengyuan I just bought a few lots to qualified my-self as shareholders to attend AGM, ask the hard questions and test out whether Company act 2106:
Pursuant to Section 323 of the Companies Act, a motion may be requisitioned by shareholders if it is requisitioned by:(ii) at least 50 members with the right of vote, where the average paid-up sum for each member exceeds RM500 per member.
Can be carried out successfully?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 17:47 | Report Abuse

>>>>

“The next year, at the same listed company AGM, the same shareholder was present. The issues remained. However, in this meeting, he did not speak and did not disrupt either.
What transpired? My stockbroker friend opined that after the earlier AGM, it was probable that so and so sent some 'friends" to have a chit-chat with the shareholder”?

>>>>>


SSLee, this is a true story from my stockbroker. I think I mentioned this in my post. It has nothing to do with you.

According to my stockbroker friend, his opinion why the particular shareholder was quiet at the next AGM was the major shareholder may have sent some of his not so 'lawful' friend to have some words with him.

I am just sharing this story.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-06-13 17:54 | Report Abuse

>>>>>

Or laugh at my bad investment in Xingquan and Hengyuan.

>>>>>>


My hilarious stories did not refer to SSLee.

SSLee, as I have commented a few times before, you will need to re-think your investing philosophy. Invert. Invert. Invert. Why are some investors not interested in Xingquan? Also why is 3iii sharing his story on Hengyuan, discouraging i3 participants from been taken for a ride by a dishonest chap who claims Hengyuan is undervalued with PE of 3 and its intrinsic value is RM 46? The dishonest chap cannot even admit that he said so, preferring to lie his way out. Admit the truth and the mistake, be a man and be honest, and then move on. Today he is just a lier, and not a good one at this either. -)


" .....I know you have old score to settle with your nemesis"
This insinuation is far from the real situation. There is neither score nor nemesis. Just dealing a dishonest person; better stay clear.