Posted by pradeep > 2018-03-05 12:14 | Report Abuse

We await for the AGM and we need to do something to protect the minority interest.

Posted by pradeep > 2018-03-05 12:30 | Report Abuse

The remuneration board also should be questioned why the Directors are paid highly and i also understand a complaint also could be lodged with the watchdog of Bursa and I am sure if you have a valid complaint your interest will be protected.

Posted by RVI123 > 2018-03-05 12:36 | Report Abuse

Will Tabung Haji send any representative to attend the AGM? They are not represented in the board. They are "Sleeping".

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-03-05 12:37 | Report Abuse

Share price should not be part of the remuneration package.

Hapseng if you notice last 3 years, they use revaluation to pump up the profit figure so that it looks like an even increase. Now the company is very overvalued.

Posted by pradeep > 2018-03-05 12:38 | Report Abuse

MinorityWatchdog Telephone No. 0320709090 get in touch with Mr. Wong upsidedown119 if you have a valid complaint, I also believe KSL group is a very old company in Bursa and the Directors and the major shareholders must protect the interest of the minorities.

Posted by pradeep > 2018-03-05 12:48 | Report Abuse

I note that even though the company earning is good and even financially strong that does not mean it is a good company to invest if the minority shareholders interest is not protected and what about other public funds that had invested in the company ,have the fund managers made a mistake and an ordinarily lay men take his hard earned money to invest and become a victim.The question is how do we say this is call a wise investment or a good trap investment ?

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 13:40 | Report Abuse

pradeep. What official position is Mr. Wong holding? Has he any institutional power to redress? If he is really watching, he should have barked in 2016. If you have the Securities Commissioner's contact, please post it. I am virtually certain that others will also like to complain. In terms of advocacy, only the Securities Commission has the power to investigate.

It is no longer "if" I have a valid complaint. The evidence in terms of 'smoke' is overwhelmingly there. Hard evidence can only come through a forensic investigation.

I am trying to get to the right authorities for this, including getting the right tali to ensure an investigation.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 13:41 | Report Abuse

pradeep. In terms if getting results, attendance at the AGM may help but would be ineffective. Only the authorities like the Securities Commission can bring results.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 13:53 | Report Abuse

@asdf. THanks for the link to the 2015 AGM. The answers given by the directors were nothing new. But the answer to the third question on the the 40% of profit div payout was and is pure BS.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-03-05 13:55 | Report Abuse

Div payout and share buybacks are the same thing to me.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 14:02 | Report Abuse

@Jon Choivo. That's exactly the point. If the directors'remuneration is in the form of share options, they will have incentives to maintain the share price.

If paid in pure cash like KSL, they can have the best of both worlds - paying themselves obscene salaries and thrashing the share price in order to collect (at RM1 per share, it may be as good as share option) using their obscene salaries. In the meantime, the minors will be sent to holland.

Being paid at RM30 million per year, the directors can wait a long time before they, if ever, implement share-price friendly policies.

KSL's directors seems to be mentally and morally sick somewhere!

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 14:21 | Report Abuse

@pradeep. I quote you:"..what about other public funds that had invested in the company ,have the fund managers made a mistake..".

No fund manager worth his salt, especially public funds like TH, will endure zero dividends for 2 years and then endure a crash in the share price of 50% or more, and not call it a mistake. When calling a decision a mistake, we go by the evidence and not by the reputation of the decision maker even though it is a reputable and sizable fund like TH.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 14:42 | Report Abuse

pradeep. Is Mr. Wong the official watch dog of Bursa?

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-03-05 14:47 | Report Abuse

I don't want director to have incentive to manage or maintain or manipulate the share price. I want them to focus on the business.

They should also however, think about what gives real return to the shareholders, and buying back severely undervalued shares is one of them. Last year they spent easily RM10mil buying back the shares. Directors also buying back the shares.

Now market property market is soft. This is precisely the time you should make sure you have enough cash to take advantage of the downturn, and buy more land etc. Not go give out dividend, although no doubt, a small one would be beneficial.

Total key management salaries is 30m. Is that high? Maybe. But its not excessive considering the profit and management of the company.

I'm ok with it. I dont mind if the share price stays low. This is market giving you chance to buy.


upsidedown119 @Jon Choivo. That's exactly the point. If the directors'remuneration is in the form of share options, they will have incentives to maintain the share price.

If paid in pure cash like KSL, they can have the best of both worlds - paying themselves obscene salaries and thrashing the share price in order to collect (at RM1 per share, it may be as good as share option) using their obscene salaries. In the meantime, the minors will be sent to holland.

Being paid at RM30 million per year, the directors can wait a long time before they, if ever, implement share-price friendly policies.

KSL's directors seems to be mentally and morally sick somewhere!
05/03/2018 14:02

Posted by RVI123 > 2018-03-05 15:02 | Report Abuse

@Jon Choivo, how long have you been invested in KSL? I believe it is quite recent. I am pity for those who have invested 3 years and longer. The company is making a lot of profits but the minority investors are not enjoying the benefits. The investors may probably want to divest due to whatever reasons but find that they are making losses after investing into KSL for a long time.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 15:13 | Report Abuse

I have just sent a complaint to the MSWG.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 15:16 | Report Abuse

@Jon Choivo. Your point noted. You are likely a new investor buying at RM1. Older investors who bought at more than RM1 based on management sanctioned hype, faced the prospect of going to holland.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-05 15:25 | Report Abuse

Comparison between KSL and Hap Seng.

------------------------ NTA -------- PE ---------- Dividends ----Share Price

KSL---------------- RM2.49 ---- 4.77 ------------- nil ------------ RM1.01

Hap Seng ------- RM2.32 ---- 21.27 ---------- RM0.35 ------- RM9.42

Both have about the same NTA (underlying asset for each share), but Hap Seng is able to create 8.4 times more values to the shareholders than KSL.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-05 15:37 | Report Abuse

Another comparison

------------------------------Share Price-------------
-------------------- Sept 2010 ------------- Today -
KSL ----------------RM0.80 ----------------RM1.01
Hap Seng ---------RM1.00 ----------------RM9.42

The price has been adjusted to all rights issue, share splits and bonus issues.

On top of this, Hap Seng has distributed many times more dividends as compared to KSL.

Posted by pradeep > 2018-03-05 15:49 | Report Abuse

upsidedown119 contact watchdog and ask for Mr. Wong .he is very learned and friendly

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 16:13 | Report Abuse

@enid888. Spot on. When I first started investing in KSL several years ago, my calculations led me to the same conclusion. I was also into Hap Seng. But I did not factor in KSL's management's likely shenanigans. Nowadays, I also look at the BOD's members profile before I invest.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 16:15 | Report Abuse

pradeep. I do not know Mr. Wong. And I am facing some wolves with a lot of sharp financial teeth. It's good to be cautious.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 16:23 | Report Abuse

pradeep. Besides, knowledge and friendliness are useless with KSL. What is needed is countervailing legal power to get them to heel.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-05 16:24 | Report Abuse

@upsidedown119, I bought into KSL since 2012. All the calculations proved positive, but I only miscalculated one factor, the board. I am also learning from this mistake. In fact, the actual NTA per share for KSL is about RM5.50/share instead of RM2.49/share if we based on the current market values of the landbanks that the company owned.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 17:14 | Report Abuse

@enid888. We are investors who did our homework. We should not be victimised.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-05 17:54 | Report Abuse

If onelooks at the trading today, it is quite clear that KSL's share price is being artificially tamped down in coordinated effort - 801K shares by 11 persons queuing to sell!

Posted by pradeep > 2018-03-06 09:01 | Report Abuse

Enid888 how did you arrive at 5..50 .actually speaking it is an opression of the minority shareholders and the costcof doing the aforesaid application to the Court is quite high we need to address the above issue.

Posted by godhand > 2018-03-06 09:34 | Report Abuse

The boss is actually quite malicious. look at the way he does things. He is making sure he has huge pile of cash to privatized the company later.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-06 10:59 | Report Abuse

@upsidedown119, I thk you are just like me. We are value investors, not speculators. We do our homework before we invest. We had commonly chosen deeply undervalued KSL, but the management prefer to press down the price to buy quietly at low price. Other than pushing down the price by frequent trading, no dividend declared is also another way to lower down the price.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-06 11:10 | Report Abuse

Bursa announcements showed that the directors and Tabung Haji had been buying the company shares for the last few years. KSL itself also had done a lot of share buy back.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-06 13:26 | Report Abuse

@enid888. I suspect another smoking gun is the persons behind the massive sell-downs in Dec 2014. I suspect they were representatives of KSL's insiders or KSL's insiders themselves (although they would not be so foolish to do so themselves). The evidence is in the records of the KLSE trading system. Only the Securities Commission can have access to those records in the database for a forensic investigation, identify the persons involved and question them. At most they would just be about 20 persons in number. They can be easily identified - repeated rapid sellers, likely with borrowed shares.

The Feb 2015 sell down is understandable since KSL did not meet its much hyped property sales target of RM1 billion and in fact could have made a loss in the property div for qtr 4 FY 2014.

But the double sell-downs of Dec 2014 is very suspicious. Although the whole KLSE was down in Dec 2014, KSL should not be down so drastically due to the div patout and bonus share issue.

Matrix's share price was cushioned by its generous and consistent dividends at around the same period - https://klse.i3investor.com/mqtrader/sf/chart/stk/5236.

Posted by pidan2014 > 2018-03-06 13:31 | Report Abuse

Ripe to rebound ? ..................

Posted by stkoay > 2018-03-06 13:34 | Report Abuse

Hi upsidedown119, Happy New Year to you.
I owned a few hundred thousand shares. I took profit and sold all at an average price of 4.50 in Novewmber 2014.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-06 14:34 | Report Abuse

@upsidedown119, thanks for the information that you give. No wonder it came down so fast in Dec 2014. I could not believe that it has now come down to RM1.02, LELONG PRICE without valid reasons. Nothing much has changed, the company still make a lot of money even for the last 3 years when the property market is not good. The share price has been trading between PE Ratio of 3 to 7 times. It is now trading at 4.77 times. What will happen when the property market improve? It will definitely move up very fast.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-06 14:47 | Report Abuse

@stkoay. Happy CNY to you too. And congratulations on your profit in 2014.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-06 14:55 | Report Abuse

@pidan2014 & enid888. My take is that KSL's share price will rebound when they fulfill their promise to pay out 40% of operation profits as dividends.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-06 15:33 | Report Abuse

@pradeep. The revised NTA based on the current market price is RM5.50 per share. If you go through the list of properties owned by KSL in the 2016 Annual Report, you can see the few pieces of land are still kept in the book at their purchase price in 2002 to 2007. The actual market price has skyrocketed and gone up 100% to 300%.

For example,
Item 2, the 6,496,612 sq. ft. subdivided land under development in Bandar Bestari, Klang. The book value is RM265.5mil or RM40.72 / sq. ft. The current market price should be RM584.7mil or RM90/sq. ft.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-06 15:42 | Report Abuse

@upsidedown119. I agree with you. Just like Hap Seng and other stocks, KSL price will rise once the shareholders are confident that the management is rewarding the shareholders on their investments into the company. Investors are looking for returns on the money tighted up in the investment.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-06 15:51 | Report Abuse

enid888. Land held for development cannot be revalued because of tax implications. It's only when they are sold either as undeveloped land or developed into properties either as investments (Malls) or sold (houses) that the market value of the land is realised (sales land or houses) or revaluated (investment properties) and booked.

The fair value gains booked by KSL is from the development of its malls (e.g. Klang) and/or revaluation of properties already developed (Hotels, malls).

But I agree with your drift about the market value of KSL's assets. The value of KSL's investment properties can be realised either by sale or placed in an REIT.

KSL already stated in 2015 AGM that whilst REIT is considered, the idea is not implemented.

Posted by enid888 > 2018-03-06 16:02 | Report Abuse

Agreed that land held for development can not be revalued. It is also stated in Financial Reporting Standard (FRS) that it can not be revalued. However, in computation of RNAV or the actual Net Tangible Asset, we will have to use the current market land price to get the actual NTA.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-06 16:22 | Report Abuse

@enid888. Yes - use current market price RNAV for calculating NTA especially for investment decision. This would include land held for development.

Posted by lcng123 > 2018-03-06 21:37 | Report Abuse

anybody the progress of ksl city mall 2 at klang ?

Posted by JamesTrue > 2018-03-06 22:32 | Report Abuse

Are you interesting to invest Klang KSL project?

Posted by lcng123 > 2018-03-07 11:13 | Report Abuse

the management do mentioned the ksl city mall 2 at klang will be completed in year 2020, just wanna know whether they hit the target.

Posted by upsidedown119 > 2018-03-07 15:03 | Report Abuse

Anyone invested in KSL is already indirectly invested in "Klang KSL project". There is a chance that KSL may drop further to say support level of 80 sens.

Posted by lcng123 > 2018-03-07 15:41 | Report Abuse

i think ksl management may consider turn ksl city mall at jb to reit after completion of ksl city mall 2 at klang.

Posted by jibbie > 2018-03-07 16:34 | Report Abuse

the reit story has been there for ages. all speculations

Posted by RVI123 > 2018-03-08 00:13 | Report Abuse

Paramount share price has moved up steadily from RM1.30 in June 2016 to RM2.07 yesterday. It is very much helped by its dividend payment policy and the declared 7.5sen special dividend.

Posted by RVI123 > 2018-03-08 00:17 | Report Abuse

KSL is equally good if not better counter than Paramount. If KSL keeps its promise to pay out 40% of its earnings as dividends, it will have the same performance as Paramount.

Posted by Tom > 2018-03-08 00:18 | Report Abuse

这股是炒股，不知道kenneth得等多久才能解套