Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 10:13 | Report Abuse

See that? Calling names now. Sad case for a person such as Dolly who couldn't reason it out with facts. That shows ur character.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:21 | Report Abuse

u r slapping ur own face is it.. what had u said earlier? ur language was proper and polite?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:22 | Report Abuse

couldn't reason it out with facts? i have given facts but you COULDN'T ACCEPT FACTS... IDIxT

Posted by frank74 > 2016-12-21 10:25 | Report Abuse

guys, please get a room. the discussions getting very hot and steamy. i don't think many want to be part of your squabbles, at least not me. again, i appreciate some of the info, but it's getting kinda exhausting, don't you think?

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 10:27 | Report Abuse

Dolly, plz stop spamming in the forum. U better comment something related to the stocks and stop ur other nonsense comments.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:27 | Report Abuse

yes, i am getting frustrated too frank74.. but pls ask that sxckperfomer to stop his nonsense first...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:28 | Report Abuse

sorry guys... he started the war so i have to re-act... bcoz of his personal agenda to sabotage evergreen, i have to defend.. that's it

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 10:28 | Report Abuse

I'm only interested with discussions related to the stocks. Dolly here prefer to quarrel lol. Stop lah dolly.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:29 | Report Abuse

trying to pull down the evergreen share price with his misleading "so-called" facts... and when i gave real facts to prove him wrong.. he accused me of some nonsense... really hopeless.. i pity his parents to have such idixtic milk-drinking child

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:30 | Report Abuse

stop the shxt sxckperformer.. u have not answered what i proved... if evergreen a furniture stock at current stage? is it fair to compare its capex intensive business with "pure/mainly" furniture makers which are less capex intensive?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:31 | Report Abuse

answer this first, dun divert topic, u asxhole

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 10:31 | Report Abuse

How can I sabotage if Evergreen is strong as you always cheer on? I didn't create all the debts for Evergreen, right? ALl facts and figures are taken out from quarterly and annual reports mah.

Posted by frank74 > 2016-12-21 10:31 | Report Abuse

end of the day, everybody just wants to make money. everybody has their own opinions. let's just agree to disagree...financial analysis and all that is important, however, we know stock movements are more than just that, there's also emotions, stock manipulation, etc to factor in. moral is, none of us have a crystal ball, so fight to the cows come home also no use. just wish each other the best !

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 10:35 | Report Abuse

frank74, wise words well said! I did not create anything artificial at all and everything I posted are facts. Dolly just upset because I uncovered Evergreen's high debts. RM200++ millions borrowings is not a small amount.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:36 | Report Abuse

u have not answered my questions yet sxckperformer:

is evergreen a furniture stock at current stage? is it fair to compare its capex intensive business with "pure/mainly" furniture makers which are less capex intensive?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:38 | Report Abuse

yes, agree with u frank.. i am not upset with the fact that evergreen has manageable debt.. i am angry as this idixt manipulated the fact for his own agenda..

some 'not-so-well" informed investors may be misled by him...

u see how he is slapping his own face with his own words...

How can I sabotage if Evergreen is strong as you always cheer on?

My comments:
then how can we not know if evergreen is bad? need you to tell?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:38 | Report Abuse

see.. he has no logic.. his words contradict with his own words...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 10:39 | Report Abuse

advice for sxckperformer:

dun compare things with ur misleading info, for your own agenda.. i know what u r thinking,..

u r very interested in the future growth of evergreen.. but u missed the 70+sen timing to buy.. so u wanted it to drop further so u can buy more.. else, why waste so much time here?

so noble to educate ppl? pui~~~

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 10:49 | Report Abuse

aiyoooo...this Dolly very mahh fann person lol. My previous post showed u already mah. Let me quote out references again.

Evergreen's Annual Report 2015, page 17:
On a longer term Strategy, the Group will be focusing on increasing its production volume for its Ready To Assemble (RTA) Furniture Products as this will enable us to have a wider range of premium products that is able to fetch a higher profit margin on its designs and quality.

Evergreen's Annual Report 2015, page 19:
The Group’s Capital Expenditure allocation for 2016 is budgeted for approximately RM106.0 million mainly for enhancement of our existing Particle Board production line and the refurbishment / relocation of our MDF production plant from Masai, Johor to Segamat, Johor. This is to improve the production efficiency and enjoy a synergistic operation in one location. The upgrading of the Particle Board Press will enable us to produce premium particle boards for specific markets of higher profit margin.


Analysis:
If MDF business is good, Evergreen doesn't need to venture into particleboard and RTA. They are experiencing lower growth due to over-reliant on one segment that is MDF with 80% revenues derived from this segment alone. You can see the MDF profit margin is weaker, volatile and lower as compared to particleboard.

Below as indicated are the round-up of EVERGREEN and HEVEA profit margin:

EVERGREEN
2012: 3.2%
2013: -4.5%
2014: 0%
2015: 9.1%
2016: 7.3%

HEVEA
2012: 4.1% (Hevea's RTA segment started operation in early of 2012)
2013: 5.7% (Continuation of CAPEX throughout the year for more automation for RTA)
2014: 7.2%
2015: 14.7%
2016: 13.3%

EVERGREEN
Medium density fibreboard (MDF): 80% of revenues contribution
Value-added MDF: 15% of revenues contribution
Ready-to-Assemble (RTA): 5% of revenues contribution

HEVEA
Particleboard: 40% of revenues contribution
Ready-to-Assemble (RTA): 60% of revenues contribution

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 11:01 | Report Abuse

How many quarters are needed for Evergreen to earn to payback the giant RM 216,585,000 total debts? Answer is a very long duration. TWO HUNDRED MILLIONS DEBTS is small amount? How much interest the company is paying the financial institutions every month? Have u calculate?

Some people claim Evergreen has shareholders fund? How to use it? Can only use it as more collateral to the banks means more debts inflated? Be practical and logical then u know u should never have talk about it in the first place.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 11:19 | Report Abuse

Particleboard can be made and formed into any shapes and sizes by using molding and pressing machinery which means it's versatility is far superior. Cheaper to produced and raw materials are easily obtained (wood chips, sawmill shavings, or even sawdust). Study more on particleboard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_board

It is more expensive and cumbersome to produce MDF and it requires certain hardwood timber and most timber plantations or replanting schemes are already growing softwood timber trees nowadays. In the future, hardwood will become more scarce. I don't see any plantation companies are planting hardwood trees because it needs a very long time and almost not economically feasible. Learn more also on MDF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:20 | Report Abuse

if reasonable debt is used to make more profit (for expansion), why not?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:21 | Report Abuse

dun just cherry pick on one thing and manipulate ur so-called fact

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:21 | Report Abuse

dun divert topic: answer my question:

is evergreen a furniture stock at current stage? is it fair to compare its capex intensive business with "pure/mainly" furniture makers which are less capex intensive?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:21 | Report Abuse

cant even answer that?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:21 | Report Abuse

if cant answer, get lost pls

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 11:23 | Report Abuse

Basically particleboards are made from varying types of by-products hence the lower costs and savings whereas MDF requires hardwood materials to complete hence the name density and what are the prices of hardwood? Check here:

http://www.mtib.gov.my/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=88&lang=en

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 11:24 | Report Abuse

Dolly zai, can u stop spamming the forum with nonsense and non-related comments? Later u got banned then it's too late.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:29 | Report Abuse

he is just comparing toyota and perodua.. 2 different specs, have different customers range and different needs.. u can use paper box to build ur door?
can use lower grade wood to build a solid door? bedframe, cupboard which need better quality?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-21 11:30 | Report Abuse

sxckperformer asked Tony Fernandes:

Why r u doing aviation business which requires a lot of capex and need to raise debt?

Tony fernandes smacked his head and answered:

some ppl are good at selling nasi lemak, some ppl are good at selling butt (like you)... my expertise is in aviation so i do this business...

if no one do this kind of business, there is no airline...

something for MDF... everyone do furniture, no one make MDF.. where to buy MDF?

see how stupid his question is..

KUo familiy is expert in MDF making so they involve in this business... you ask him to sell nasi lemak? no need a lot of capex, no debt...

Posted by R3D3 > 2016-12-21 16:28 | Report Abuse

How many multiple nicks does one need to promote one's self interest? Do you really get an award winning your pathetic argument on the internet? Grow up please. Show some dignity and respect to your own self.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-21 16:53 | Report Abuse

Unnecessary noises with unrelated comments to the stocks should be ignored and unwritten. Dolly zai is too emotional all the time. Never fall in love with a stock. Ignoring the facts will just get u hurt over and over again.

Posted by gogogogo > 2016-12-22 06:06 | Report Abuse

true..if you want to comment or even promote other stock please go respective i3 forum. this is what i3 forums created for. please follow this rule

Posted by yfchong > 2016-12-22 08:03 | Report Abuse

Got the dividend next q dividend

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-22 08:47 | Report Abuse

Why take the risks of buying into Evergreen which has not paid dividends for 3 years 2013-2015 and it paid only 1 sen dividend in april 2016. Still amassed RM200++ millions of debts. Holding RM140++ millions of cash is a lot? It needs to use the cash to service giant debts & interest charges and expansion plans.

Is Hevea not a better buy? Net cash position with RM100++ millions of cash on hand. Dividends are paid out in 3 to 4 times a year. Hold this not better than something with no dividends? I think it's clear.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 10:42 | Report Abuse

gogogogo... this sxckperformer went to evergreen forum to promote Hevea.. so i came here to justify... u can check back who started this.. I or this sxckperformer (in evergreen post)..

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 10:42 | Report Abuse

let me make one last blow to him on his idixtic and biased comments (for his personal agenda i guess, if not why spend so much time here... quite obvious, he missed the boat and is trying to pull down the share price - but who is he? does he have such influence.. haha.. )..


1) Debt of Evergreen (which is manageable and reasonable for the industry it is involved in) - he keeps saying that Hevea has zero debt but Evergreen has debt.. I have told him that Hevea is more like a furniture company as its 60% sales are from RTA (ready to assemble furniture) which are less capex intensive. Where as currently Evergreen manufactures 80% of raw MDF so it is more capex intensive in terms of the machineries and maintenance. They are not in the exact industries so you just can't compare directly.. he has not even answered my question on this one.. Yes, evergreen will target to build more RTA (current 5% of total revenue), but their main focus is still MDF at current stage. So, until one day when Evergreen has its RTA sales reach 50-60% of total revenue, then only it is fair to directly compare with Hevea on the debt/net cash...

2) Debt of Evergreen - again, let's discuss if the debt is bad or actually good for evergreen. We know that many business raise loans to expand. We have to examine whether their profit margin is higher than the interest they need to pay for the loan. Last year (2015 full year), evergreen net profit margin is 9.1%. This year (up to 9 months), due to forex loss, the net profit margin dropped to 7.3%. But this is still higher than the bank interest rate that they are paying for... example, if you earn RM10 additional but you pay RM5 for interest, u still get additional (net RM5) for the expansion... so why not to expand if you have net profit from there?

3) Dividend - he is again very biased and misleading here.. 2013-14 were bad years for Evergreen, we all know and admit that. This was due to the intense competition of MDF makers within ASEAN (as 2006-08 were good years and many new MDF makers ventured into this business can caused over-supply) However, as mentioned by Evergreen management, many small and incompetitive MDF players have been washed out (go bankrupt) during the bad years of 2012-2014 due to losses.. but evergreen as the biggest MDF player in ASEAN with strong footing and experience has weathered thru the storm and grow bigger now.. in fact, they ate up the market shares of those closed-shop small factories,.. so from 2013-14, we cannot expect evergreen to pay dividends during tough years.. why I said he is biased? When Hevea was in deep financial woes during 2009-2010, why did sxckperformer not question: why Hevea did not pay out dividend during tat time? see? he is manipulating his words...

4) Dividend - in latest AGM, Evergreen management has approved to give out at least 40% of net profit to shareholders... so, with the expansion plan almost done (will require less capex, and have more cash)... we can expect more dividend to come.. we invest in the future of Evergreem.. but this joker keeps talking about the past.. and he totally kept quiet about Hevea's past on the bad years.. and when raider said Hevea almost went bankrupt.. what did this sxckperformer say? Trump went bankrupt 3 times but now is a US president.. haha.. funny right? we know it is not end of day for bankruptcy, but we dislike his biased view on evergreen.. Hevea's past was bad, but it is ok.. Evergreen's past was bad, but it is not OK.. see it?

sxckperformer.. see.. i wasted so much time to explain to some idixt like u.. quickly thank me la.. coz i "put money in ur pocket" d...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 10:58 | Report Abuse

this coward sxckperfomer still dares not answer my question until today (in contrary, I responded to all of his misleading and manipulated "facts"):

How pathetic he is... i pity his parents, really...

Posted by gogogogo > 2016-12-22 12:05 | Report Abuse

冤冤相报何时了, hevea and evegreen share price is co-integrated, if hevea share goes down evegreen share price will be impacted too and vise versa..why u guys din't realize and attack each other..

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 12:16 | Report Abuse

gogogogo... i agree with u... i do not intend to fight with sxckperformer... after all, our intention is the same - to make money... it is fine for him to make money from hevea and for us to make money from evergreen... but he keeps manipulating the "half-facts" and keeps comparing Hevea with Evergreen in a very unfair judgment (as what I had pointed out above why his comparison is unfair)...
so as a shareholder of evergreen, i have to defend evergreen so that the new evergreen investors may not sell evergreen with panic and cause the share price to drop... and it also helps prevent "wan-to-buy" investors from misunderstanding evergreen's financial health...

Apologize to you all if this has caused nuisance... i would stop if he stops this nonsense..
thanks.

Posted by vinvestor > 2016-12-22 12:23 | Report Abuse

Hevea has retained profit of 56m at the end of 3rd quarter ended 30.9.2016. Its NTA per share stands at 0.85 compare to its par value of 0.25. So, will there be any bonus issue early next year ?

Posted by vinvestor > 2016-12-22 12:24 | Report Abuse

Hevea has retained profit of 256m (previous comment wrong) at the end of 3rd quarter ended 30.9.2016. Its NTA per share stands at 0.85 compare to its par value of 0.25. So, will there be any bonus issue early next year ?

Posted by newbie_Investor > 2016-12-22 14:13 | Report Abuse

what is the correlation between retained profit with bonus issue?

Posted by vinvestor > 2016-12-22 15:01 | Report Abuse

A company distribute bonus issue by capitalizing its retained profit into new shares. Means to do bonus issue, the company must have sufficient retained profit.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-22 15:04 | Report Abuse

RANKING OF INDEBTNESS:

1. HEVEA 109,790,000 (CASH) - 6,947,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 8,164,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = 94,679,000 NET CASH POSITION
2. LATITUDE 173,205,000 (CASH) - 20,341,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 67,797,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = 85,067,000 NET CASH POSITION
3. LIIHEN 113,946,000 (CASH) - 5,293,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 29,053,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = 79,600,000 NET CASH POSITION
4. HOMERIZ 57,017,000 (CASH) - 0 (LT BORROWINGS) - 0 (ST BORROWINGS) = 57,017,000 NET CASH POSITION
5. SIGN 71,041,000 (CASH) - 18,531,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 2,915,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = 49,595,000 NET CASH POSITION
6. SHH 31,989,000 (CASH) - 0 (LT BORROWINGS) - 6,635,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = 25,354,000 NET CASH POSITION
7. POHUAT 63,631,298 (CASH) - 1,652,965 (LT BORROWINGS) - 37,584,812 (ST BORROWINGS) = 24,393,521 NET CASH POSITION
8. FLBHD 21,716,000 (CASH) - 0 (LT BORROWINGS) - 0 (ST BORROWINGS) = 21,716,000 NET CASH POSITION
9. JAYCORP 35,951,000 (CASH) - 7,384,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 11,636,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = 16,931,000 NET CASH POSITION
10. MIECO 16,905,000 (CASH) - 0 (LT BORROWINGS) - 56,153,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = -39,248,000 NET DEBTS POSITION
11. EVERGREEN 141,018,000 (CASH) - 108,952,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 107,633,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = -75,567,000 NET DEBTS POSITION
12. SYF 1,730,000 (CASH) - 51,127,000 (LT BORROWINGS) - 64,543,000 (ST BORROWINGS) = -113,940,000 NET DEBTS POSITION

LT = Long Term
ST = Short Term

Both HOMERIZ and FLBHD have NO BORROWINGS at all and hold lots of cash. Among all, the worst is EVERGREEN which has mountains of debts. LATITUDE is the one holding lots of cash on hand. Which one has the most debts though having the highest market cap? Justifiable? These are very alarming facts. I believe people know how to choose the stocks properly. I will reveal more.....

Posted by Dave Jet > 2016-12-22 15:27 | Report Abuse

Back to 1.45 soon

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 15:29 | Report Abuse

haha... u see how this loser and joker keeps manipulating facts.. let me show him Ricky Yeo's analysis again on how these furniture makers require much lesser capex for their business...

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/JTYeo/96888.jsp

and he just ignored it.. and keeps telling his old grandmother story (on the same thing, which is misleading and manipulated)...

come on la.. u have not even answered my question:

is evergreen a furniture stock at current stage? is it fair to compare its capex intensive business with "pure/mainly" furniture makers which are less capex intensive?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 15:29 | Report Abuse

i have to repost many times as this sxckperformer keeps diverting topic.. such a coward, dare not answer my question.. why? bcoz he knows the answer himself!!!

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 15:32 | Report Abuse

come on loser sxckperformer, dun repeat your same old grandma story which is misleading and twisted... can u even lump evergreen under "furniture stock"... answer me... why dun u categorize Airasia as furniture stock too...

Ricky Yeo, a very good value investor did raise this out too:

These are the fixed assets extracted from the reports. When you look at plant, machineries & equipments (PPE), Hevea needs around RM170 mil of PPE to generate RM503 mil of revenue, or 2.95x. In contrast, Homeritz can generate RM146 mil of revenue with only RM4 mil worth of PPE. That's 32.95x.

Is that because Hevea is inferior? No, it is simply because they are in a different business. For a particleboard manufacturer like Hevea, the amount of machineries they need to chip, flake, dry, mat forming, hot pressing, sanding, sizing, laminating, to turn timber into particleboard are a lot.

In comparison, the machineries you need to turn particleboard into an upholstered sofa is very little. Sanding, polishing and some cutting tools should do the work. In saying that, the workmanship needed to turn the sofa into a high-end quality product will translate into higher expenses too. Pohuat & Latitude would have more similiarities to Homeritz than Hevea, while Hevea's business is more similar to Mieco.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 15:35 | Report Abuse

basically Ricky is comparing Hevea with Homeriz..

But similar thing applies here.. why?

Hevea has 60% (huge portion) of revenue in RTA furniture so it requires less capex for machineries etc as compared to evergreen (only 5% RTA, mainly on MDF at current stage).

But, the management invested in capex (for advanced machines) to reduce labor cost and dependency on foreign worker..) see how Homeriz is facing now.. lack of labor and cause revenue and profit down...

so, if Evergreen's RTA business is also 60%... u will probably see they dun need so much capex... but at current stage, he is comparing apple with orange.. see how misleading he is...