Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-22 15:36 | Report Abuse

COME ON COWARD sxckperformer.. dun run away, just answer my question!

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-22 16:36 | Report Abuse

The reason those people such as Dolly acting like that is because they could not reason it out with facts.

Dolly, what and which points that I lied about? Can u be specific? I never create anything artificial. If u cannot explain with supporting facts then u can should simply admit it.

I believe some people will find my efforts to lay out the factual data among all related companies to be useful. Definitely, I'm not buying SYF, EVERGREEN and MIECO. I'm discussing these so that Dolly and friends should not mislead people to think the Evergreen's debts are manageable.


I would say SIGN, HOMERIZ, LIIHEN, LATITUDE and HEVEA are worth to buy especially Homeriz has no borrowings at all.

JAYCORP, FLBHD, POHUAT and SHH are worthy as well especially FLBHD has no borrowings at all.

LIIHEN, LATITUDE and HEVEA are on upper hand. Believe it, the fundamentals of all these companies will be reflected in their share prices eventually. MIECO's share price could possibly be manipulated so beware.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-22 16:47 | Report Abuse

Rankings and compare:

1. HEVEA: 109,790,000(CASH) - 6,947,000(LTB) - 8,164,000(STB) = 94,679,000 NET CASH
2. LATITUDE: 173,205,000(CASH) - 20,341,000(LTB) - 67,797,000(STB) = 85,067,000 NET CASH
3. LIIHEN: 113,946,000(CASH) - 5,293,000(LTB) - 29,053,000(STB) = 79,600,000 NET CASH
4. HOMERIZ: 57,017,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 0(STB) = 57,017,000 NET CASH
5. SIGN: 71,041,000(CASH) - 18,531,000(LTB) - 2,915,000(STB) = 49,595,000 NET CASH
6. SHH: 31,989,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 6,635,000(STB) = 25,354,000 NET CASH
7. POHUAT: 63,631,298(CASH) - 1,652,965(LTB) - 37,584,812(STB) = 24,393,521 NET CASH
8. FLBHD: 21,716,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 0(STB) = 21,716,000 NET CASH
9. JAYCORP: 35,951,000(CASH) - 7,384,000(LTB) - 11,636,000(STB) = 16,931,000 NET CASH
10. MIECO: 16,905,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 56,153,000(STB) = -39,248,000 NET DEBTS
11. EVERGREEN: 141,018,000(CASH) - 108,952,000(LTB) - 107,633,000(STB) = -75,567,000 NET DEBTS
12. SYF: 1,730,000(CASH) - 51,127,000(LTB) - 64,543,000(STB) = -113,940,000 NET DEBTS

LTB: Long Term Borrowings
STB: Short Term Borrowings

Posted by Tan Toh Fei > 2016-12-22 16:50 | Report Abuse

挣的你赢我输有何意义，八仙过海，各显神通，每个人做好自己的投资研究就好，无需互相攻击。

Posted by jazzlee > 2016-12-22 18:11 | Report Abuse

Why have this type of idiot m f**ker came to people's house and promote how sexy his wife n mother is , hopefully all man can screw his ladies gao gao .
he can always screw them gao gao and diam diam enjoy the fruits n juice himself
why bother others ........ just dont understand what this stupid idiot want..........

Posted by nono118 > 2016-12-22 18:15 | Report Abuse

good debate here. I have a slightly better understanding of both hevea and evergreen now.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-22 18:24 | Report Abuse

excellent

Posted by yfchong > 2016-12-22 18:43 | Report Abuse

Next quarter....fly fly fly

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 09:25 | Report Abuse

i have slammed you hard with my justifiable answers but you have yet to answer my simple question in Evergreen forum.. come on, if you have bxlls pls act like a man... dun divert topic and answer my question... dun run away like a pondan...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 09:26 | Report Abuse

is evergreen a furniture stock at current stage? is it fair to compare its capex intensive business with "pure/mainly" furniture makers which are less capex intensive?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 09:26 | Report Abuse

yes, guys, let's just ignore this joker sxckeperformer... how sick of him...

let me make one last blow to him on his idixtic and biased comments (for his personal agenda i guess, if not why spend so much time here... quite obvious, he missed the boat and is trying to pull down the evergreen share price - but who is he? does he have such influence.. haha.. )..


1) Debt of Evergreen (which is manageable and reasonable for the industry it is involved in) - he keeps saying that Hevea has zero debt but Evergreen has debt.. I have told him that Hevea is more like a furniture company as its 60% sales are from RTA (ready to assemble furniture) which are less capex intensive. Where as currently Evergreen manufactures 80% of raw MDF so it is more capex intensive in terms of the machineries and maintenance. They are not in the exact industries so you just can't compare directly.. he has not even answered my question on this one.. Yes, evergreen will target to build more RTA (current 5% of total revenue), but their main focus is still MDF at current stage. So, until one day when Evergreen has its RTA sales reach 50-60% of total revenue, then only it is fair to directly compare with Hevea on the debt/net cash...

2) Debt of Evergreen - again, let's discuss if the debt is bad or actually good for evergreen. We know that many business raise loans to expand. We have to examine whether their profit margin is higher than the interest they need to pay for the loan. Last year (2015 full year), evergreen net profit margin is 9.1%. This year (up to 9 months), due to forex loss, the net profit margin dropped to 7.3%. But this is still higher than the bank interest rate that they are paying for... example, if you earn RM10 additional but you pay RM5 for interest, u still get additional (net RM5) for the expansion... so why not to expand if you have net profit from there?

3) Dividend - he is again very biased and misleading here.. 2013-14 were bad years for Evergreen, we all know and admit that. This was due to the intense competition of MDF makers within ASEAN (as 2006-08 were good years and many new MDF makers ventured into this business can caused over-supply) However, as mentioned by Evergreen management, many small and incompetitive MDF players have been washed out (go bankrupt) during the bad years of 2012-2014 due to losses.. but evergreen as the biggest MDF player in ASEAN with strong footing and experience has weathered thru the storm and grow bigger now.. in fact, they ate up the market shares of those closed-shop small factories,.. so from 2013-14, we cannot expect evergreen to pay dividends during tough years.. why I said he is biased? When Hevea was in deep financial woes during 2009-2010, why did sxckperformer not question: why Hevea did not pay out dividend during tat time? see? he is manipulating his words...

4) Dividend - in latest AGM, Evergreen management has approved to give out at least 40% of net profit to shareholders... so, with the expansion plan almost done (will require less capex, and have more cash)... we can expect more dividend to come.. we invest in the future of Evergreem.. but this joker keeps talking about the past.. and he totally kept quiet about Hevea's past on the bad years.. and when raider said Hevea almost went bankrupt.. what did this sxckperformer say? Trump went bankrupt 3 times but now is a US president.. haha.. funny right? we know it is not end of day for bankruptcy, but we dislike his biased view on evergreen.. Hevea's past was bad, but it is ok.. Evergreen's past was bad, but it is not OK.. see it?

sxckperformer.. see.. i wasted so much time to explain to some idixt like u.. quickly thank me la.. coz i "put money in ur pocket" d...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 09:26 | Report Abuse

u all can see it right?

this coward sxckperfomer still dares not answer my question until today (in contrary, I responded to all of his misleading and manipulated "facts"):

How pathetic he is... i pity his parents, really...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 09:26 | Report Abuse

haha... u see how this loser and joker keeps manipulating facts.. let me show him Ricky Yeo's analysis again on how these furniture makers require much lesser capex for their business...

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/JTYeo/96888.jsp

and he just ignored it.. and keeps telling his old grandmother story (on the same thing, which is misleading and manipulated)...

come on la.. u have not even answered my question:

is evergreen a furniture stock at current stage? is it fair to compare its capex intensive business with "pure/mainly" furniture makers which are less capex intensive?

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 09:27 | Report Abuse

come on loser sxckperformer, dun repeat your same old grandma story which is misleading and twisted... can u even lump evergreen under "furniture stock"... answer me... why dun u categorize Airasia as furniture stock too...

Ricky Yeo, a very good value investor did raise this out too:

These are the fixed assets extracted from the reports. When you look at plant, machineries & equipments (PPE), Hevea needs around RM170 mil of PPE to generate RM503 mil of revenue, or 2.95x. In contrast, Homeritz can generate RM146 mil of revenue with only RM4 mil worth of PPE. That's 32.95x.

Is that because Hevea is inferior? No, it is simply because they are in a different business. For a particleboard manufacturer like Hevea, the amount of machineries they need to chip, flake, dry, mat forming, hot pressing, sanding, sizing, laminating, to turn timber into particleboard are a lot.

In comparison, the machineries you need to turn particleboard into an upholstered sofa is very little. Sanding, polishing and some cutting tools should do the work. In saying that, the workmanship needed to turn the sofa into a high-end quality product will translate into higher expenses too. Pohuat & Latitude would have more similiarities to Homeritz than Hevea, while Hevea's business is more similar to Mieco.

basically Ricky is comparing Hevea with Homeriz..

But similar thing applies here.. why?

Hevea has 60% (huge portion) of revenue in RTA furniture so it requires less capex for machineries etc as compared to evergreen (only 5% RTA, mainly on MDF at current stage).

But, the management invested in capex (for advanced machines) to reduce labor cost and dependency on foreign worker..) see how Homeriz is facing now.. lack of labor and cause revenue and profit down...

so, if Evergreen's RTA business is also 60%... u will probably see they dun need so much capex... but at current stage, he is comparing apple with orange.. see how misleading he is...

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-23 10:17 | Report Abuse

Don't mislead people into believing your half-truths and it is still wise to discuss not only the pros but the cons of each stock as well. I simply shared my findings & views based on what are readily available in all the quarterly/annual reports. Be a responsible commentator and learn by sharing knowledge, views and information.

Posted by joerakmo > 2016-12-23 10:43 | Report Abuse

No point beating up each other ...both have points.
remember price does not equal value.
One is currently steady with higher profit margins the other is expanding and have higher propensity for earnings surprises.Look at the business and not just balance sheet.
Determine your own investment criteria and put some money to work!

Posted by newbie_Investor > 2016-12-23 13:40 | Report Abuse

Compound annual growth rate, CAGR for the past 5 years (2011-2015).
+Revenue : 7.74% (13.32% 10Y)
+Net profit : 116.84% (28.45% 10Y)
+EBIT : 80.36% (33.45% 10Y)

+Average free cash flow, FCF for the past 5 years : RM52.45m.
+Average capital expenditure, CAPEX for the past 5 years : RM7.88m.
+Recently cleared USD loans (Current debts : RM15.11m).

Growth plans
+RM20m on CAPEX to upgrade existing facilities.
+Increase capacity by 10%-15%.

+Expected dividend yield to be 3.1-3.5% based on the stock price RM1.50 (23/12/16).
+Minimum 30% dividend payout policy.
+Cash per share : RM0.189 (RM109.79m – 3QFY16).
+Value of RM1.719 (EPS ttm: 15.63 cents) based on a PER of 11x.
+Sum-of-Parts (SOP) methodology yields a fair value of RM1.91.
+Discounted cash flow analysis using the average FCF of 5 years with 5% growth and 8% discount yields RM4.13 while a 10Y DCFA is more conservative at RM1.85.
+Margin of safety : RM0.41.

Estimated valuation metrics for FY2016.
+Cash Yield : 9.59%
+Earning Yield : 11.93%
+EV/EBIT : 8.38
+Return on Capital : 25.42%

https://valueinvestingbursa.wordpress.com/2016/12/23/heveaboard-bhd-analysis/

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-23 15:31 | Report Abuse

Looking at the borrowings is important and never underestimate the implications of over-borrowing beyond a company's capacity. During tough economic climate, borrowing is a fundamental obligation and it will weigh down a company's financial strength further in the event that sales are deteriorating. Some people are hoping for the growth stories during and after expansion but nothing is a sure thing therefore u should really look into it's balance sheets from past to present ones as well. That is a certainty u can hold onto presently.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 15:38 | Report Abuse

joerakmo, u r a very fair person... and ur comment is wise..
in fact, i did not beat him up in the first place.. this idixt started this baseless attack in the beginning (you can see from the history of chat)...

in fact, i never mentioned Hevea is worse than Evergreen... both have their strengths but this idixt keeps manipulating "so-called" facts to defame Evergreen... he is super biased...

ok, i will stop here.. arguing with a pondan / no-bxlls fellow is useles..
he has not even answered my question until now..
whereas I slammed his face hard with my justification on why he manipulated the so-called facts

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-23 15:38 | Report Abuse

thank you all.. ad enjoy ur investing journey.. cheers

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-23 15:56 | Report Abuse

Manipulated facts? Lol plz wake up and stop ur lies lah Dolly! WHAT and WHICH points did I lied? Can u tell the world now?

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-23 16:01 | Report Abuse

It is very important to study on each companies "Borrowing debts". I have revealed and told u that SYF, EVERGREEN and MIECO are having unhealthy debts level. Plz look at the share prices of these 3 companies now, it is falling because it reflects on the companies fundamental.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-23 16:02 | Report Abuse

Rankings and compare:

1. HEVEA: 109,790,000(CASH) - 6,947,000(LTB) - 8,164,000(STB) = 94,679,000 NET CASH
2. LATITUDE: 173,205,000(CASH) - 20,341,000(LTB) - 67,797,000(STB) = 85,067,000 NET CASH
3. LIIHEN: 113,946,000(CASH) - 5,293,000(LTB) - 29,053,000(STB) = 79,600,000 NET CASH
4. HOMERIZ: 57,017,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 0(STB) = 57,017,000 NET CASH
5. SIGN: 71,041,000(CASH) - 18,531,000(LTB) - 2,915,000(STB) = 49,595,000 NET CASH
6. SHH: 31,989,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 6,635,000(STB) = 25,354,000 NET CASH
7. POHUAT: 63,631,298(CASH) - 1,652,965(LTB) - 37,584,812(STB) = 24,393,521 NET CASH
8. FLBHD: 21,716,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 0(STB) = 21,716,000 NET CASH
9. JAYCORP: 35,951,000(CASH) - 7,384,000(LTB) - 11,636,000(STB) = 16,931,000 NET CASH
10. MIECO: 16,905,000(CASH) - 0(LTB) - 56,153,000(STB) = -39,248,000 NET DEBTS
11. EVERGREEN: 141,018,000(CASH) - 108,952,000(LTB) - 107,633,000(STB) = -75,567,000 NET DEBTS
12. SYF: 1,730,000(CASH) - 51,127,000(LTB) - 64,543,000(STB) = -113,940,000 NET DEBTS

LTB: Long Term Borrowings
STB: Short Term Borrowings

Posted by yfchong > 2016-12-24 13:15 | Report Abuse

Hi bro star performer just do one more interest covering ratio semua dah jelas

Posted by Ezra_Investor > 2016-12-26 18:00 | Report Abuse

Not interest coverage, that's not correct yfchong.
Interest coverage ratio is to measure your operating earnings vs interest expense.
He is trying to compare cash vs debt.

I believe leverage ratio or debt to equity should be a better measure if i recalled correctly.

Posted by yfchong > 2016-12-27 14:57 | Report Abuse

Bro investor your r right.... Just request star performer do one more EBIT to interest expense semua dah jelas

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-27 14:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by aidwiz > 2016-12-27 20:25 | Report Abuse

aiyoh stockraider u manyak menci sama ini hevea meh?

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-27 20:31 | Report Abuse

Evergreen the base measurement start as at 15-12-2016 where ;

Evergreen at Rm 0.97
Hevea at Rm 1.55

mkt close today 27-12-2016
Evergreen at Rm 0.98
Hevea at rm 1.51

Performance
Thus Evergreen up Rm 0.01 or up 1%
Hevea down Rm 0.04 or down 2%

Evergreen outperform Hevea by 3% loh....!!

Go Go Go Evergreen loh....!!

Posted by Ezra_Investor > 2016-12-28 11:27 | Report Abuse

Using market price as a fundamental indicator of which stock is better is the silliest thing I've heard in recent times.
You failed as a value investor.

Posted by R3D3 > 2016-12-28 11:34 | Report Abuse

Ezra: It's getting totally moronic the arguments.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-28 11:36 | Report Abuse

Ezra,

When both failed in investment arguement, the best settlement is share price performance loh....!!

The share price performance determine return....very objective mah..!!
No need to argue loh....!!

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-28 11:43 | Report Abuse

Just look at share price of Hevea which has risen so much. WHat about Evergreen? It's on down trend. Need to explain further meh? Aiyoooo stockradio can go back to investlah forum. Too bad no one wants u there since u got kicked out. Lol

Posted by Ezra_Investor > 2016-12-28 11:47 | Report Abuse

stockraider:
"When both failed in investment arguement, the best settlement is share price performance loh....!!"
The share price performance determine return....very objective mah..!! "

After hearing you said that, I immediately understand that you are a "Value pretenders" - investors who brand themselves as value investors but actually miss the essence of value investing, which Seth Klarman warned about in 2005.

Warren Buffett once said: “You’re neither right nor wrong because other people agree with you. You’re right because your facts are right and your reasoning is right – that’s the only thing that makes you right. And if your facts and reasoning are right, you don’t have to worry about anybody else.”

The fact that you are so desperate in your argument shows a very different sign from the traits and characteristics that we value investor preach and practice.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-28 11:51 | Report Abuse

Ezra, that stockradio is a loser seeking attention. Just see what is Evergreen's share price is going and u can know he's frustrated. Don't worry, I'll throw him some bones from tapau

Posted by bullorbear123 > 2016-12-28 22:08 | Report Abuse

Hehehe, i say both will be moving to same direction

Posted by nich0las > 2016-12-31 13:22 | Report Abuse

https://www.google.com/#q=usd+to+myr

Posted by tradeview > 2017-01-02 18:51 | Report Abuse

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/tradeview/112745.jsp

Posted by starperformer > 2017-01-03 09:12 | Report Abuse

If particleboard is not selling fast and hot, share price of particleboard makers will not have skyrocketed just like Mieco. Even Evergreen wants a piece of the market share by restarting it's own particleboard division. It's a testament to the rise in valuation so Hevea will continue to climb even higher.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-01-03 09:19 | Report Abuse

But once it rocket...it will fall mah...!!
Bcos overvalue mah...!!

Posted by younginvestor92 > 2017-01-03 09:44 | Report Abuse

stockraider, with this strong balance sheet, this is not overvalued at all. It's not looking at the chart and say it's overvalued.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-01-03 09:49 | Report Abuse

NTA Rm 0.85 v Share price Rm 1.50 not overvalue meh ?
So more up how many big % in 2016 ah ??

If Hevea liquidated today...u will get back Rm 0.85 only mah...!!

Posted by starperformer > 2017-01-03 10:07 | Report Abuse

Only idiot like u valuing the shares based on pure NTA? Hevea's growth is resilient because particleboard pricing is not volatile like MDF. U can dig out info if u don't believe. While u do that, we are enjoying the ride here.

Posted by yfchong > 2017-01-03 10:08 | Report Abuse

A bit slow today

Posted by Andrewhlc > 2017-01-03 10:48 | Report Abuse

starperformer, no need care about saltedfish no3 lah, saltedfish no1 always said hevea price will go to 0.80, but now it price become 1.50, saltedfish no3 now said it price is overvalue, but my personal view is hevea price minimum hit 1.70 this year if RM is staying above 4.20

Posted by stockraider > 2017-01-03 10:51 | Report Abuse

Raider already says Hevea overvalue mah....whereas evergreen undervalue loh....!!
Thats why hevea down today...overvalue...!!
Evergreen up today....undervalue !!

Posted by starperformer > 2017-01-03 12:43 | Report Abuse

Andrewhlc, the share price has spoken and Hevea will trend higher due to many favourable factors.

Posted by starperformer > 2017-01-03 15:25 | Report Abuse

stockraider can go hold tight dearly to his Evergreen which is obviously trending lower week after weeks. He will wake up at some point of dreaming.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-01-03 15:41 | Report Abuse

Hevea last year up alot...now no strength already bcos overvalue mah NTA Rm 0.85 only loh...!!
Evergreen sure beat hevea...already beating hevea today mah...!

Posted by stockraider > 2017-01-03 15:44 | Report Abuse

Hevea Rm 1.55 V Evergreen Rm 0.97 challenge mah....!!

How Hevea only Rm 1.49 only loh....!!