Posted by stockraider > 2021-10-17 18:29 | Report Abuse

Rubbish mah!

The poor management of TTB of capital dynamics is due for removal as a fund manager mah!

And the icap are to be liquidated and the value disbursed to benefit all unitholders mah!

TTB is sweating & fighting hard to prevent Foreign Unit holders exercising their voting rights loh!



Posted by JohnDough > Oct 17, 2021 3:16 PM | Report Abuse

“With new infections in Malaysia falling, along with the re-opening of the Malaysian economy and RM210 over million cash in reserve, its NAV is expected to rise further. Will its share price follow suit?

As its fund manager, my investing decisions influence the NAV performance of icapital.biz Berhad. On the other hand, the market price of icapital.biz Berhad is, positively or negatively, determined by investors, especially those who breached the 20% single shareholder limit.

Let me reiterate the power of compounding for the long term by quoting from the 2021 Annual Report:

“With icapital.biz Berhad, shareowners get a well-managed fund, founded on integrity, and offers excellent prospects. There is in fact no reason at all to wind it up – why chop down a bountiful fruit tree before it has matured?””

Posted by Thinkcarefully > 2021-10-17 21:36 | Report Abuse

I suggest those interested in icap to buy insas instead. It is even more undervalue. Moreover you get 2cts dividend every year for 1.00 rm share. Naps rm3.00

Posted by MG9231 > 2021-10-18 09:38 | Report Abuse

Once upon a time, during ICAP AGM, TTB Self proclaimed WARREN BUFFET of Asia, telling shareholders put money in ICAP n just relax n let him did the investment work. those who listened to his silly advice n did that practically let him collect Capital Dynamic service fees n his management fees for free ride....

Posted by MG9231 > 2021-10-18 09:46 | Report Abuse

he practically make fun of his investors and selfishly collect his fees
this can be confirmed by looking at his poor performances of Icapital internation value fund and
Icap global fund,

Posted by abang_misai > 2021-10-18 17:06 | Report Abuse

Don’t be so angry lah. TTB has changed his approach since 2019. More importantly, his new approach makes sense. Give him a chance

Posted by Nepo > 2021-10-18 20:13 | Report Abuse

Yes, give him a chance.
In fact annual compound growth of nearly 10% is still awesome!

Posted by stockraider > 2021-10-19 10:38 | Report Abuse

VERY IMPORTANT!

TO REMEMBER THIS LOH!

"The current of hype of ESG trend which is unsustainable....give a good sound contrarian opportunity for a very strong rebound & upside for plantation going fwd loh!"

PLANTATION THE BEST HEDGE AGAINST INFLATION & DEPRESSION LOH!

Posted by JohnDough > 2021-10-24 11:10 | Report Abuse

“Brokers spend their time trying to forecast the next quarter’s earnings, which is good for generating turnover and commissions, and occasionally going “over the wall” to help their banker colleagues market a new share issuance.

“Rarely does one find a brokerage house study that point outs,” wrote Benjamin Graham, “with a convincing array of facts, that a popular industry is heading for a fall or that an unpopular one is due to prosper. Wall Street’s view of the future is notoriously fallible especially when it is directed towards forecasting the course of profits in various industries.””


Capital Returns – Investing Through the Capital Cycle: A Money Manager’s Reports, 2002-15

Posted by JohnDough > 2021-10-31 13:24 | Report Abuse

“We make a long-term stock investment because we want it to appreciate over years or decades. Yet there we are, watching a downward tick over a few minutes, consumed by imagining the worst.

What’s the volume? Is it heavier than usual? Better check the news stories. Better check the message boards to find out what rumors are circulating.

A stock like Berkshire Hathaway reveals why ticker watching isn’t a particularly productive endeavor when you are investing for the long run. If you zoomed in the performance of Berkshire Hathaway stock during the banking crisis, you would feel terrible most days.

Yet we know from the big picture, that all those minute-to-minute and even day-to-day changes had little effect on the investment’s general upward trajectory.”


Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts by Annie Duke

Posted by cnman53 > 2021-11-02 14:18 | Report Abuse

iCap's 17th AGM is coming. For those with inquisitive and critical mind, please go to my blog: 4Dview. My findings about the 2021 Annual Report is published there. One in English published on 21-10-21 and another in Chinese on 02-11-21. as follow:-

足以媲美苏格兰抵押贷款投资有限公司？？？ - Nov 02, 2021
iCapital.biz Matching Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust PLC (SM)? - Oct 21, 2021
资本投资 - 比较关闭式基金和开放式基金的业绩表现 - Dec 11, 2020
iCapital.biz - Comparing performance of Closed-end fund to Open-ended unit trusts - Dec 10, 2020

Posted by bryantfc > 2021-11-04 19:33 | Report Abuse

Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust PLC pays dividends twice a year whereas ICap only do it once since inception. I wonder why no dividends policy in ICap?

Posted by JohnDough > 2021-11-07 12:46 | Report Abuse

“We are long term in our investment decisions. We own companies rather than rent shares.

We do not regard ourselves as experts in forecasting the oscillations of economies or the mood swings of markets. We think it is hard to excel in such areas as this is where so many market participants focus and where so little of the value of companies lies.

Equally Baillie Gifford is more likely to possess competitive advantages for the good of shareholders when it adopts a long-term perspective. We are a 113 year old Scottish partnership. Such stability may not be exciting but it does encourage patience in the most impatient of industries.

We only judge our investment performance over five year plus time horizons. In truth it takes at least a decade to provide adequate evidence of investment skill.”


Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust PLC 2021 Annual Report

Posted by fairplay > 2021-11-09 20:27 | Report Abuse

ICapital in latest financial year Bought + some shares in Parkson. Now that there is announcement ofParkson writedown $2 billion of its shares. What is iCapitak doing with shares of Parkson??

Posted by Observer123 > 2021-11-10 13:53 | Report Abuse

On 30 September, icapital announced that TTB has the intention to trade in icapital.biz shares, and that TTB has 30K direct shares and 2.365 mln indirect shares. On 25 Oct, 1 Nov and 3 Nov, icap announced that TTB and related entites acquired some shares, but the TTB's indirect shares were either 0 (for 25 Oct and 1 Nov announcements) or 1.677 mln (for 3 Nov announcement). Why is there such a huge discrepancy in these announcements (especially the indirect shares quantity)? It seems that the Bursa announcements were done hastily and without any checks. Can someone from icapital give us a reply or perhaps, we should raise this issue to Bursa?

Posted by cnman53 > 2021-11-10 22:57 | Report Abuse

Mr Observer123, yes, you are very observant. There is at least one place where there is a discrepancy or omission.

But my interest is more on why he chose to announce the intended dealing on 30 September 2021 before the announcement of the quarterly report of 11 October 2021.

The actual transactions only falls on 25 October 2021 and 1st and 3rd of November which are all after the publishing of the quarterly report. Therefore there is actually no need to make the intended dealing in closed period.

So he was probably trying to create the impression that there is going to be some insider movement which may move the price of the counter.

Of course the result is as you know, only a few drops of water falling into parched sand.

Posted by cnman53 > 2021-11-10 22:58 | Report Abuse

Mr Fairplay, only great managers dare to admit their mistake.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2021-11-11 14:45 | Report Abuse

One obvious reason why TTB is so strongly against company doing a share buy back while he himself is buying is the reduction in management fees payable. A less obvious one is any reduction in number of shares outstanding will effectively increase the percentage shareholding of COL, for which TTB is going to court to try to block. Once past 25%, COL will be in a position to block any special resolutions, i.e. veto power.

Posted by fairplay > 2021-11-11 15:29 | Report Abuse

I question integrity of TTB. Let us see how the coming AGM is run

Posted by JohnDough > 2021-11-14 10:57 | Report Abuse

“”X company with a $150 profit and Y company with a $100 profit. Which one is better?”

In their first training class, freshly-minted managers are often asked the above question. They are provided additional information like “suppose X is a large conglomerate and Y is the neighborhood coffee shop” to shed light on their intuitive responses.

The intention of questions like these is to train our managers to think in relative, not absolute, terms. Efficiency is a ratio, not an absolute number.

To be efficient, for example, X company has to produce many times more profit than the neighborhood coffee shop to warrant the billions more it receives in investments. We are often amazed to find out how many managers instinctively like being “large”.

We train managers to understand and appreciate that in the real world, they have access to limited resources and their job is to maximize profits at a certain level of resources.

In other words, they are not measured on whether they are profitable, they are measured on the degree to which they are efficiently profitable. Once managers understand and practice efficiency, the result is powerful.”


China Meidong Auto Holdings 2019 Annual Report

Posted by stockraider > 2021-11-14 13:19 | Report Abuse

If U worry about icap...u may consider palmoil stock as next best alternative loh!

The following write up summarize why is it palmoil stock offer the best investment & investor protection loh!

Do not listen to the good for nothing stock analyst who have vested interest loh!

Investment into farmland or plantation is the best defensive investment strategy now loh!

Invest now...b4 its share price rerate & shoot up mah!

U see...sifu calvin should continue to promote plantations share when there is still deep margin safety for plantation stock mah!

This is the very safest strategy mah!

No need to heed the naysayers complaining spamming mah!

Bcos naysayers had very bad ulterior motives mah!
Remember why investing into palmoil stock is greatleh ??

Plantation land beside having huge tract of cheap land to protect us against rampant inflation, it also produce food and also provide good & safe dividend yield of 3% t0 6% pa much superior compare to fixed deposits of yield less than 2% pa.


Remember why investing into palmoil stock is greatleh ??

Plantation land beside having huge tract of cheap land to protect us against rampant inflation, it also produce food and also provide good & safe dividend yield of 3% t0 6% pa much superior compare to fixed deposits of yield less than 2% pa.

In other words plantation is a perfect investment at the moment loh!


Posted by calvintaneng > Nov 6, 2021 5:28 PM | Report Abuse

Intrinsic99

I have read all the argument broth forth by the Naysayer IB Bankers

None of them is true

See our Friend reply

Posted by Johnzhang > Nov 2, 2021 9:57 AM | Report Abuse

IBs and many pessimist are relentlessly worried that CPO price will fall since the day CPO reached $3,000/- in 2020. CPO reached $5,350 now! Should investors be too concerned if CPO price correct down from today's level ?
I would like to share the year's high (H) , low (L) and the simple average (Avg) from year 2008 to 2021as below :
2008. $4179 (H) , $1403 (L) , $2791 (Avg)
2009. 2887,. 1630. 2259
2010. 3782. 2386. 3084
2011. 3930. 2786. 3358
2012. 3567. 2027. 2797
2013. 2635. 2157. 2396
2014. 2917. 1933. 2425
2015. 2360. 1802. 2081

2016. 3243. 2181. 2712
2017. 3344. 2338. 2841
2018. 2555. 1718. 2137
2019. 3025. 1834. 2430
2020. 3835. 2021 2928
----------------------------------------------------
Avg. 3251. 2017. 2634
----------------------------------------------------
2021YTD 5395. 3471. 4434

2021's H is 29% higher than the highest H (2008)
2021's H is 66% higher than the avg H 2008-2019
2021's L. Is 147% higher than the lowest L (2008)
2021's L is 72% higher than the avg L 2008-2019
2021's Avg is 68% higher than the Avg 2008-2019.

Despite the above , all plantantion counters stock prices are 20-50% below the highs achieved in 2008 -2020 period . Mind boggling indeed.

So, why should there be worries if CPO price indeed correct for 10-20% next year ??
02/11/2021 9:54 AM

Stock: [TAANN]: TA ANN HOLDINGS BHD

Oct 26, 2021 3:22 PM | Report Abuse

The windfall tax is not new . It has been around since 2008.
The IBs rating for plantation sector have been like this :
When CPO $3,000 , price will fall to $2,500 , neutral rating
When CPO $3,500 , price will fall to $2,700 , neutral rating
When CPO $4,000 , price will fall to $2,800 , neutral rating
When CPO $4,500 , price will fall to $3,000 , neutral rating
When CPO $5,000, price will fall to $3,200 , neutral rating
When CPO $5,300 , price will fall to $3,300 , neutral rating
Listening to IBs will bring you to Holland !

NOTE: JOHNZHANG SAID: "LISTENING TO IBs WILL BRING YOU TO HOLLAND

(NO WONDER 90% OF THE MARKET RETAIL PLAYERS YEAR AFTER YEAR LOSING MONEY LISTENING TO IB BANKERS: 90% OF RETAIL PLAYERS LOSING MONEY DECADE AFTER DECADE LOSING MONEY LISTENING TO IB BANKERS

(BETTER WAKE UP! STOP LISTENING TO IB BANKS)


Posted by Johnzhang > Oct 8, 2021 12:50 PM | Report Abuse

I am pleased to share the projected full year (2021) EPS and the prospective PE of some of my favorite plantation counters. The Projected EPS is based on actual 1H + Q3+Q4. Q3 EPS can be estimated fairly accurately as Q3 avg CPO prices is known and production numbers are mostly available . I also make the assumption that Q4 EPS is same level as Q3 for reasons that ASP Q4 seem to be even higher and labourers for plantantion sector are coming in to maximize crop recovery. Given that Nov/Dec is usually seasonally lower crops, but the higher ASP and labour availability should be enough to offset that,
On above basis , the FY 2021 EPS and prospective PE based on yesterday closing share price as as follows:

Bplant. EPS 9.6sen , PE 7.1x
THplant. EPS 16.5sen , PE 4.4x
SOP. EPS 73.0sen. PE 5.3x
MHC. EPS 20.9sen. PE 4.5x
Cepat. EPS 13,9sen. PE 5.2x
Swkplt. EPS 48sen. PE 5.2x
Taaan. EPS 67.9sen PE 4.6x
Hsplant. EPS 23.6sen. PE 9.3X.

Historical PE for plantation counter is 15 to 25x
As such, plantation counters are seriously underappre

Posted by captureConUlar > 2021-11-14 13:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by observatory > 2021-11-18 20:40 | Report Abuse

Finally the iCap manager is returning 20 sen to shareholders.

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3210591

Is this a “GIFT” to loyal shareholders before the Nov 20 AGM?

This was only the second time dividend was paid since its listing. The last time when it paid a dividend was in 2013!

An investment fund does not need to pay dividend if the manager can invest the capital wisely. Unfortunately, iCap is not such a fund. The manager has been sitting a huge pile of cash for years waiting for a stock market crash. When the market finally crashed in 2020, the manager had been slow and only managed to put a small part of the idle cash to work. Therefore fund-holders continue to earn FD rate. In fact, worse than FD rate because they need to pay a combined management and advisory fee of 1.5% per year.

Returning 20 sen to shareholders is one step towards the right direction, but still not enough. Based on 1QFY2022 report, iCap short term deposit and bank balance is RM210.76 million, or RM1.51 per share. The 20 sen dividend is a far cry from the 151 sen it holds.

Latest NAV is RM3.76 per share. At today closing price of RM2.35, iCap holders suffer a discount of 1 – 2.35/3.76 = 37.5%!

It’s disingenuous of iCap manager to blame City of London for the discount. Anyone with basic stock market knowledge knows that if iCap manager were to return the entire RM1.51 cash per share to shareholders as special dividend, the discount will be immediately narrowed.

After returning the cash, the NAV will be reduced to about RM3.76 – RM1.51 = RM2.25, consisting almost entirely of shares. Even if stock market still applies a 37.5% discount, the remaining NAV will be valued at RM2.25 * 62.5% = RM1.41. But shareholders would have received a RM1.51 cash plus an ex-dividend share priced at RM1.41 = RM2.92, representing a 24% improvement from current RM2.36!

Instead of returning just 20 sen, why doesn’t the manager return all the cash to shareholders? The shareholders can then choose to keep the entire returned cash in their own FDs. Why should they pay an annual 1.5% fee for an FD investment that earns hardly more than 1.5%?!!!


If a shareholder likes the manager very much, he can use the special dividend to buy more iCap shares. Isn’t that good? Hard core iCap fans get to enjoy twice the action of iCap manager with the same amount of fund invested!

Of course, this suggestion will only work if iCap manager is willing to part control of the > RM200 million cash and the 1.5% annual fees that come with it.

If he is not willing to part control, may I put forward the second-best proposal?

Why don’t he just promise to rebate all the fees received from idle cash? In other words, just charge fund holders for money invested in stocks. Don’t charge fun holders for money invested in FDs! How about that?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2021-11-19 02:10 | Report Abuse

Or just do a share buyback. Instead of money in FD which barely covers the management fee, can capture the price discount immediately. A no brainer.

Posted by ahhuat56 > 2021-11-19 10:09 | Report Abuse

same old complaints and comments all the time. A no brainer.

Posted by MG9231 > 2021-11-19 10:15 | Report Abuse

I sold my Icap @$2.17 in 2020 and swapped the same amount with Genting @$3.30
Forget about this useless and self interest so called "fun manager"
better DIY
Just see his ICAP International Valued Fund & Icap Global fund
both tell you thousands word than unnecessarily argument here

Posted by fong7 > 2021-11-19 11:01 | Report Abuse

It's pointless to calculate how much discount icap price to its NAV, because investors have lost confidence in him. TTB's lack of investors' friendly attitude brought in this terrible discount. I won't be surprise if the discount goes all the way to 50% in near future. It's very easy to solve this discount problem, but he just won't do it (for the investors). He is a very selfish person, he only cares about his own and his company's income. Another horrifying thing is, after watching his live shows lately, his China-oriented mindset has extended to new highs, which making his mind very bias and anti-Universal values. This is very concerning for his investors. I'd long dumped all my icap. I am glad I did that.

Posted by MG9231 > 2021-11-19 11:24 | Report Abuse

Can't agree more on what you said

Posted by fong7 > Nov 19, 2021 11:01 AM

Posted by Thirai Thiraviam > 2021-11-19 11:58 | Report Abuse

In 2020, when the market crashed, the very first stock I invested in was ICAP, mostly because: 1) ICAP has been sitting on cash for years (I am a long-time shareholder), and I thought TTB would've been sufficiently prepared to grab the wonderful companies at deep discount; and 2) I was busy running my own company, making it COVID and MCO proof and stuff, so just didn't have the time to do the needed research. Nonetheless, I did invest in a few -- which, over the course of the last one and a half years, seem to have done better (in terms of stock price appreciation) than ICAP. Strange.

Posted by ckkhen > 2021-11-19 12:10 | Report Abuse

I am a long time Icap investor since IPO in 2005. I bought and sold some over the years. My average price is 1.21 with 100k holding. Recently, in July I bought another 30k at average 1.90. I wished I had bought more. The unexpected 20 sen dividend is a "durian runtuh".

Last year I bet big on gloves and now lose 70%. If I had put this amount of money in icap, i would be richer.

TTB is an old hand in the Market. You dont lose by following him. Just buy at a discount. You wont regret.

Posted by ahbah > 2021-11-19 13:19 | Report Abuse

Just declare all cash as dividend to shareholders n let the shareholders

buyback whatever shares they want in the mkt ?

Posted by observatory > 2021-11-19 16:06 | Report Abuse

Haha. Earlier someone says investing in iCap is like investing in a piece of land. Be patient. Buy and hold it for long term. Shareholders will get richly rewarded.

Evelyn11 is more honest. She said "land investing" mentality is not enough. One must have the "right trading strategy". One must know how to sell high and buy low. Otherwise one can only blame on his own "poor investing skill".

Wow. iCap has become such a challenging investment!

Far more easier to buy a unit trust. It also makes me wonder, if one has such a good trading skills, why stay with iCap?

What a great defense for the iCap manager!

"it's all your faults. Don't blame me"

Posted by observatory > 2021-11-19 16:07 | Report Abuse

Haha, just because Top Glove had a reckless buy back strategy, share buyback is deemed bad. Tell that to the professional money managers investing in S&P500 companies!

Just because road accidents happen, you should just stay at home!

Posted by observatory > 2021-11-19 16:28 | Report Abuse

Haha, @Evelyn11 has removed her comments and gone. Yeah, please come up with a better excuse next time.

Posted by observatory > 2021-11-19 18:13 | Report Abuse

"Material Litigation" as stated in today announcement to Bursa:

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3210840

"...the Board of Directors (“the Board”) of ICAP wishes to announce that on 18 October 2021, the High Court had dismissed the application for Judicial Review on the grounds that the Judicial Review was not a suitable mode to determine this dispute. The High Court did not make any determination on the issue of whether City of London Investment Management Limited (“CLIM”) is a shareholder of ICAP...."

Note the date. The High Court has already dismissed the application on 18 Oct. Why was the news not announced a month ago?

Why was it only announced after Minority Shareholder Watch Group wants to find out?

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/savemalaysia/2021-11-12-story-h1593809467-AGM_Watch_MSWG_wants_to_know_Icapital_Biz_s_judicial_review_status.jsp


The directors at iCap need to know they have a fiduciary duty to all shareholders. They should announce material information promptly, irrespective of whether it's positive or negative.

Posted by MG9231 > 2021-11-19 20:34 | Report Abuse

Foreign fund Manager buys ICap shares, being it's major shareholders also cannot, kena sue. Where got logic, now case being thrown out of court, TTB no face, reluctantly force to disclose....

Posted by calvintaneng > 2021-11-19 20:57 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by cnman53 > 2021-11-19 22:34 | Report Abuse

A great manager, or for that matter any righteous person should honour his words, walk the talk and be prepared to admit mistake and make amend.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2021-11-19 23:03 | Report Abuse

@observatory - Holding back material information is breach of listing rules, especially when litigation against the largest investor group is price sensitive.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2021-11-19 23:07 | Report Abuse

If the company deemed it important enough to announce the initiation of the judicial review, then it should also be important enough to announce the outcome. Look at Serba Dynamics.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2021-11-19 23:22 | Report Abuse

Shareholders should ask, is further legal action against COL a BOD decision or TTB's? If the SC has ruled that COL is not in violation of the 20% limit rule, is the company suing SC as well as defendant, as SC is the regulator and enforcer of the rules?

Posted by MG9231 > 2021-11-20 11:32 | Report Abuse

Too free, Just having fun over here.


Posted by calvintaneng > Nov 19, 2021 8:57 PM | Report Abuse

MG9231

Don't waste time with TTB

Go for Palm oil shares now as Multi Year earnings on

Later will give Special dividends & FREE BONUS ISSUES

Posted by calvintaneng > 2021-11-20 13:53 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Thirai Thiraviam > 2021-11-20 14:46 | Report Abuse

Earlier today, TTB had a lot to say about share buy back. He said share buybacks aren't necessarily good; and to drive home his point, elaborated at length the share buyback strategy of Top Glove (which destroyed value) and Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust (which managed to narrow the price to nav gap only after buying back shares for over a decade).

I didn't find his arguments convincing, though. Partly because I think Top Glove case is more a study on when not to use the strategy. I wish he had considered another closed-end fund like Gabelli Dividend & Income Trust, which seeks to buy back its own shares whenever the nav-price gap exceeds a certain threshold.

Maybe that should be in the agenda next year -- i.e. a resolution to empower the fund managers to buyback shares whenever the discount exceeds, say, 20%.

That said, I am happy to receive the 20 cents per share dividend. If there were such a thing as free lunch, this is probably it. :-)

Posted by dumbMoney > 2021-11-21 00:19 | Report Abuse

@Thirai - It is no free lunch or early Xmas. You are only getting back your own cash that will no longer suffer the price discount or having to pay management fee.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-11-21 10:59 | Report Abuse

The 20sen dividend is just a small sweet to placate complaining shareowners as this round the wave of feedbacks/criticisms are too heavy to ignore. Anyway, after ex-div, the share price will be reduced by Bursa by 20sen. Meaningless for those who do not need this money.

Posted by freedomfund > 2021-11-21 11:09 | Report Abuse

Despite many requests, no action was shared by TTB on how to narrow the NAV-mkt price gap. Also the Board is like a rubber stamp, only TTB is the person who answer questions. Meaning he is the de-facto controller in ICap. As I have asked in yday AGM, I will proceed to initiate fund closure. I will contact City of London and also a group of other shareowners to work together to have this fund closed. This is to turn the gap of 3.76-2.45=RM1.31 into a realised gain which is a +53% arbitrage gain. But I also need more shareowners to support this. I know some of you have great sentiments for this counter, have been holding long term etc. But let me assure you, this is just another mutual fund and NEVER get sentimental in ANY investments. Take the profit and invest in another fund. Simple.

Posted by stockraider > 2021-11-21 11:21 | Report Abuse

TTB is just another kon man mah!


Posted by freedomfund > Nov 21, 2021 11:09 AM | Report Abuse

Despite many requests, no action was shared by TTB on how to narrow the NAV-mkt price gap. Also the Board is like a rubber stamp, only TTB is the person who answer questions. Meaning he is the de-facto controller in ICap. As I have asked in yday AGM, I will proceed to initiate fund closure. I will contact City of London and also a group of other shareowners to work together to have this fund closed. This is to turn the gap of 3.76-2.45=RM1.31 into a realised gain which is a +53% arbitrage gain. But I also need more shareowners to support this. I know some of you have great sentiments for this counter, have been holding long term etc. But let me assure you, this is just another mutual fund and NEVER get sentimental in ANY investments. Take the profit and invest in another fund. Simple.

Posted by JohnDough > 2021-11-21 13:14 | Report Abuse

“”The key to a rational stock price is rational shareholders, both current and prospective … people who buy for non-value reasons are likely to sell for non-value reasons. Their presence in the picture will accentuate erratic price swings unrelated to underlying business developments.”

Warren Buffett made the above observation in the 1983 annual report of Berkshire Hathaway and it appears to be applicable to your Fund’s experience.

Your Fund is a value investor, and hopefully its owners are as well.

As I explained in last year’s report, I have constantly referred all of you as share owners and not shareholders. Holders implies something transitory while owning implies a more permanent state of affairs.”


2007 Annual Report icapital.biz Berhad – Letter to Share Owners

Posted by ahbitchiew > 2021-11-21 17:38 | Report Abuse

Talking about share buy back. If you treat City of London purchase of Icap shares as a share buy back, they have purchased more than 20% of the Icap shares, look at the effect of that net purchase, does that help Icap share price at all? If TTB were to agree to share buy back, what difference this is going to make when previous purchased by City Of London doesnt even move the share price at all !

Posted by observatory > 2021-11-21 20:20 | Report Abuse

I'm appalled and at the same time amazed by the ingenuity of this answer!

It has subverted the meaning of share buyback.

In a transaction where investor A buys 100 shares from investor B, it also means investor B simultaneously sells 100 shares to investor A. Where is the "back" in the share buyBACK? Back to whom? There is no "back" here.

There is no change in the total number of shares in the market. Still 140 million shares.

Share buyBACK only happens when the company itself buys shares from investors, and BACK into the company as treasury shares.

The difference when iCAP buyBACK shares is the market supply of iCAP shares will dwindle. Fom 140 million to 139 million, 138 million, 137 million...

As the supply of shares reduces, the remaining shares in the market become scarce and therefore more valuable. The NAV discount will narrow accordingly.

Too complicated? Let's try another way.

CoL is only willing to pay for your iCap share at 30% discount to NAV. Since no buyer is more generous than CoL, the iCap share can only be sold at 30% discount at best.

But if iCap company itself is willing, stuffed with more than RM200 million cash, it can put in a buy order for 50 million shares of iCap at RM3.65. In other words, buy at zero NAV discount! The discount is eliminated immediately.

Still too complicated? Then don't buyback. Just return the RM200 plus million cash to all shareholders as special dividends.

Still too complicated? OK, how about manager just waives the fees on the RM200 plus million of cash sitting in the bank account? Show some mercy on the shareholders.

Unfortunately I don't think this is an issue of comprehension. Common sense has been subverted on purpose.

It reminds me of the tale of a smooth talking consultant. Whenever he fails to con he will try to confuse his way out.