Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 09:47 | Report Abuse

I'm believe i3 will sapu all until 2.40 in order to maintain his reputation :) Lose man don't lose face !

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 09:54 | Report Abuse

hustle who are these top gurus? It could be you plus a few duplicated account of yours. Do they have CFAs or even a degree in finance. Which university did they graduate from(some college located on a prewar house in Petaling Street maybe ). Your English is pathetic by the way and you are far from qualified to give any appraisal. The smartest anaylsts from top business schools (ranked in the top 50 in financial times at least) are more inclined to recommend that you short the shares of this company and Bursa Malaysia investigates Ivory Properties Bhd for accounting fraud

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 09:56 | Report Abuse

Fully agree kchongnz, it may even have a market cap of 10 bil and eclipse the market cap of SP setia since their Bayan Mutiara will generate 10 bil of sales anway a 5000% upside from here

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 09:59 | Report Abuse

Thanks Impartial, for pointed out my poor language issue,will take time to improve that.But anyway,when we click at the price target column, we will see lots of CIMB,MAYBANK,...etc research house suggestion,is all of this worth to trust? Since,I'm believe they are not qualify from petaling street college kot.

Posted by millionaire > 2013-03-07 10:07 | Report Abuse

RM2.40 was recommended b4 right issue, careful, smile :-)

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 11:00 | Report Abuse

These recomendations are valid for half a year at best anyway. There has been no coverage for this company for over a year now here or in the bloomberg terminal. In other words, it has fallen out of the radar.

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 11:03 | Report Abuse

By the way, I have checked the bloomberg terminal. This company has minimal institutional shareholding. EPF has diposed everything and Public mutual is left with maybe 100 over lots.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-07 11:09 | Report Abuse

impartiality, does Fong Shing Ling (ColdEye) still a major shareholder? Just wonder why did he hold so much of this share. Must be long time ago before the problems surface.

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 11:11 | Report Abuse

By the way thanks for your hard work impartial,really appreciate your detail research.But in properties counter some times they will use all their funding for the project,I'm believe that if you trace on UOADEV it will show you the same situation.

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 11:22 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, fong shi ling admitted off the record to someone that his investment in Ivory is a mistake. He has thousands of lots in another Penang based developer Tambun though. Tambun has delivered more tangible results compared to just trash talk for over a year. Is there any reason then for instituional funds to invest in Ivory if they want exposure to Penang properties? I am sure people are smart enough to know that answer. There was a lot of hype on Ivory when it listed because it was the first IPO by a developer on Bursa Malaysia for more than 2 years. However, other developers like Tambun and UOA followed suit. The hype has since died down. Institutions have more choices and liquidity is tight now

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 11:29 | Report Abuse

Tan KW can you confirm this regarding to your sifu Cold Eye?

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 12:30 | Report Abuse

Just some back lane information to share,DIJACOR just join venture with IVORY for a housing development project in Penang lately.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-07 12:41 | Report Abuse

Is it always true that when there is a new or big project, there will plenty of money to be made by the company? When is this project going to start? Is everything ok, I mean approvals by various authorities? How is Ivory going to fund it? What is the projected profit for Ivory for how many years? And what is the present value of all this projected cash flows for the joint venture, for the debt holders? How is it translated to per share for Ivory common shareholders? Many questions need to be asked and answered.

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 12:50 | Report Abuse

I'm really respect that all the factor that involve, you already take into consideration.By the way,as a Penangies everybody know that when there is a housing project launching,even before the "for sale" sign board put in that area,all the lot already been clear out by speculator.So,for the revenue part,I'm not really worry about that.

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 14:59 | Report Abuse

Wow back lane information? If that's where you get all your information for stocks from , it suggests what kind of an imbecile you are. Do you think you have any credibility in telling me which anaylst to believe etc. In fact, the JV with Dijaya was public information. Have you heard of something called "annoucements" by publicly listed companies on Bursa website. Your english proficiency is appalling and you make decisions based on "back lane" information. I guess maybe thats where you belong. Did you go to a "back lane" college as well?

Ivory had no choice but to JV with Dijaya as they didnt have enough money to make the down payment for the Bayan Mutiara Land. Having said that, the real questions become( kchongnz correctly voiced his scepticism)
(1) Who has actual control of the JV and who makes the major decisions? shareholding is irrelevant when you dont have money
(2) How is profit going to be regonized on Ivory's part

Danny Tan being the brother of tycoon Vincent Tan is not known for being generous in treating business associates. He has no reason to. In fact, Ivory will be delusional to think that they can just treat him like an investor when they need his money as desperately as ever

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-07 15:04 | Report Abuse

Come on man don't be frustrated,I know that you hate this counter.How about you sold all your IVORY with me at 0.35 outside trading also can one,since possibly tomorrow it will be PN17 already as you said.

Posted by setia2u > 2013-03-07 15:10 | Report Abuse

If you are not happy with the price of this counter, sell it to me please, I am buying!!! But at 48.0 sen, I am always there for you, everyday.

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-07 15:11 | Report Abuse

What made you think that I am stupid enough to buy this counter at ths first place. You can perhaps borrow me some shares to "short" at 10% interest per annum

Posted by setia2u > 2013-03-07 15:13 | Report Abuse

Bet you, by end of this year, you will not see this price or lower anymore, conservatively RM1.00

Posted by setia2u > 2013-03-07 15:15 | Report Abuse

You might think that I am dreaming or day dreaming now at this moment, but never mind, at least I dare to dream and think positive ly.

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-08 20:20 | Report Abuse

Wow very impressive big talk . When someone talks big that way , some people are inclined to think the opposite . Have you ever heard of inferiority complex?

Posted by yanxuan8 > 2013-03-09 11:24 | Report Abuse

Setia2u, I think you are right to buy at 48.0 sen, good support at this level.

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 11:28 | Report Abuse

ivory will >RM1 this yr...bayan mutiara project sales damn good

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-09 13:20 | Report Abuse

Posted by kcchongnz > Mar 7, 2013 12:41 PM | Report Abuse X
Is it always true that when there is a new or big project, there will plenty of money to be made by the company? When is this project going to start? Is everything ok, I mean approvals by various authorities? How is Ivory going to fund it? What is the projected profit for Ivory for how many years? And what is the present value of all this projected cash flows for the joint venture, for the debt holders? How is it translated to per share for Ivory common shareholders? Many questions need to be asked and answered.

When I post the above post in i3, I was just guessing things like project may not have been approved yet; Developer may not have financing to even start the project etc. After reading through a website on the launching and sales of the Bayan Mutiara project, it reaffirmed my cautious reservation about the project. Read what those people who went for the “launch” said below. Anyway good to have dreams, without which don’t even think of any success in life. But if you dream of building castle in the sky, think dream again. Clarification here, I personally have absolutely nothing against Ivory and nothing against anybody here who loves ivory so much. Why am I blowing my trumpet here? I am one of you, a small retail investor who have a strong opinion about this. But for anyone of you who is so interested in investing in Ivory, maybe he should go to the sales office to find out more about the project. Best if you can get them to answer some of the questions I asked above.

fl09_Ever said...
Went to see today, 800 per sq ft with nothing only one air one and normal finishing. I don't think is worth it, but I saw many people just come in and buy without asking anything. S&P cannot be stamp within one year because the plan not approved for construction yet. Money they collect only can park under the stick holder. Good luck to all the buyers who think the price will appreciate.
Al said...
Beware of Ivory! Go read some threads on their projects. Look at 10 Island Resort. When they do sales everything is so Rosy, once they have your money ......

niamahdiu said...
i went to the sales gallery near Qbay and guess what.. the service is like shit!!.. really shit... and damm shit... i do not know how to describe all this shit salesperson beside than shit ppl, shit service and shit everything.

February 22, 2013 at 12:45 PM Dahlialover said...
The other day went to the launching at the new sales gallery..the price is about RM850/psf, Block A & B sold out and left block C & D. But the minimum selling price for the 616sqft studio apartment is at RM519,000 and for every floor increase RM3,000. Furthermore, S&P will not be stamped until the developer deemed that they are financially stable to commence the project, only they will stamp it. So, after further thinking, I will rather wait for other promising projects than to put my $$ in something which isn't concrete!! GOOD LUCK TO ALL THAT THINK THIS PROJECT IS WORTH IT. If it does appreciate in price, well, congrats!

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-09 16:40 | Report Abuse

well said. I have said all along that the project has not even been approved. Stakeholder agreements are not formal sales anyway. In fact, they risk antogonizing MPPP more by selling properties without an approved layout. I urge everyone to go to Penang Times Square to have a good hard look. They claimed that they whole project had been sold out 2 or 3 years back. I am more inclined to name the mall " Empty Times Mall". Not even half the retail lots are occupied. If you are inclined to take what these people say at face value, think again. You can fool some people some of the time but you cannot fool all the people all the time. Every dog has its day. Ive accompanied fund managers to the Penang times square mall before

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-09 17:30 | Report Abuse

"Penang Empty Time Square"? The more I hear about Ivory, the more I am worried for the naive retail investors who think that Ivory is such a great investment. Before I was just relying on financial statements and as I have said, they are ugly. Now it appears to me there are more serious problems about Ivory. Here are some of them:
1)If the Time Square were all sold as claimed by the management, bearing in mind that it was 3 years ago, how come the balance sheet is still look like shit? Lost a lot of money in the project?
2)Why is the Time Square in such a sorry state when it appears to be in a good location? Not only Impartiality said that, one can Google about it. Is it because the management is like shit?
3)If (2) above is true, how do you expect the management can make Bayan Mutiara a success?
4)Is it true that all the lots in Time Square really sold, or is it the management is not truthful about the sales? I won't want to invest in a company with management who is not candid, and dishonest.
5) How come Ivory can start to sell properties in Bayan Mutiara when the project plans are not even approved yet? and don't know when it can be started?
6) The financial statements presented clearly involve financial shenanigans to me as I have explained before. This is a very serious issues.

Seriously, for those people who think Bayan Mutiara is such a great project, I suggest they go find out all the issues I have mentioned before investing in the stock.

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-09 20:36 | Report Abuse

Yes. The balance sheet is a catasthrophe. Loan outstanding has almost doubled since thier IPO and cash flow from operations is always negative. Its not that investors do not accept companies that are highly geared but they must also be able to generate more cash flow and Ivory is bleeding cash. I am quite worried as they are staying afloat by drawing down existing loan facilities which are certainly not unlimited. All loans have convenants that must be adhered to such as debt to equity ratio. I am sure they are either close to or has also exceeded those limits. They risk having their existing facilities reviewed. By the way, this is the first company that I come across in which loan outstanding exceeds market cap.

It is not an uncommon practice for developers to sell properties when layout is still pending approval but most of them do it quitely to avoid problems with the authorties. ivory has no qualms about doing it agressively. Friends of mine in charge of housing loans told me some banks are reluctant to get involved in their projects. Whatever it is, the boss has to pray for a miracle.

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 21:44 | Report Abuse

you are wrong on bank dont want to finance their project...i do understand most of the bank has approved end financing for their bayan mutiara project to their buyer...its very normal in penang to launch a house before local authority approved the plann...the deposit will hold by lawyer under stake holder fund...the purpose is to capture buyer while waiting for approval...

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-09 22:01 | Report Abuse

Hi Skyland do you know which are the Bank that financing the Ivory Project?

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:02 | Report Abuse

Hustle...u might book 1 unit bayan mutiara & I think at least 3-5 bank will call u to offer loan financing

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:05 | Report Abuse

As I know...maybank, RHB, PBB, HLBB, Ambank & HSBC has approve this bayan mutiara end financing...

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-09 22:09 | Report Abuse

Then it is ok what.Basically if bank willing to loan, means that the company reputation is good.Else,if pig & dog developer that build the house,public will encounter hard to get loan approval,since for new lending rules regarding to pre-build housing project,banking sector that bear the highest risk not purchaser.

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:16 | Report Abuse

yes...u are right...imagine land cost RM240/ft & selling like hot cake at RM600/ft on block A&B(no sea view)...reclamation land in front of A&B sure will sell at > RM800/ft...can see the profit?? Too expensive & scare away the buyer?? do u know that now the light linear selling at RM700/ft for sub-sales?

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:19 | Report Abuse

who care sign SPA later...now penang ppl only scare cant book at lower price on 1st 2 block & pricing keep increase on 2nd phase...this is penang developer tactic la...pre-launch 1st & approval later...SPA stamp now or stamp later, who care so long bank coild approved the loan with booking receipt

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:22 | Report Abuse

before comment...pls understand the business practise...all look at paper on company announcement...mana boleh? negative comment from internet by buyer can trust kah? sure is sabotaj by other developer/competitor...

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:27 | Report Abuse

but hustle...ivory need to hold & could only see the impact of the project after 6-9 mth when progess claiming from bank release stages...so...waiting to buy lower (due to election risk) & hold...but if DAP losing on penang stage, then ivory will facing the luck like equine on 308

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-09 22:28 | Report Abuse

Possibly someone get fired from Ivory & try to let go some emotion :)

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:30 | Report Abuse

SP Setia/ IJM & Ivory tender for this bayan mutiara land but won by ivory...can u imagine SPSetia & IJM feeling?

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:34 | Report Abuse

& dont forget how smart of ivory could convience state gomen to pay the total land cost of RM1 billion by 5 years instalment instead of normal procedure of 6-9 mths. This is to reduce the cash flow risk & saving lots on interest.

Posted by rlch > 2013-03-09 22:36 | Report Abuse

Ivory boleh!

Posted by skyland > 2013-03-09 22:58 | Report Abuse

Dont buy if u not confident ya...lets see will it >RM1 this year?

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-09 23:35 | Report Abuse

Let's us toward North together,trust what we invest not bull shit :)

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-10 07:04 | Report Abuse

Looking at the recent comments, more people are upbeat about Ivory; skyland, Hustle, yanxuan, setia2u etc. Ok, I take not on Hustle's call not to "bull shit", and that I am a sour grape being "someone get fired from Ivory & try to let go some emotion". Yeah lah, i also shouldn't comment as skyland has rightly pointed out as below:

Posted by skyland > Mar 9, 2013 10:22 PM | Report Abuse
before comment...pls understand the business practise...all look at paper on company announcement...mana boleh? negative comment from internet by buyer can trust kah? sure is sabotaj by other developer/competitor...

Good luck

Posted by impartiality > 2013-03-10 12:34 | Report Abuse

Hustle before you comment look at the mirror first. Not everyone ike you will work for such a pathetic company like Ivory directly or indirectly. You can bought more easily but you cannot assume that everyone is the same.I have MBAs from a top 10 business school ranked by Financial times. I dont need to work for a company that may land me in jail for abetting accounting fraud. I will never work for Ivory even if I am offered a salary exceeding 10k and neither will anyone that I know.

Posted by Hustle > 2013-03-10 14:04 | Report Abuse

I'm sorry I'm not work for Ivory either,I'm just own a small stall that sell kopi at the back lane.All my back lane information mostly is from my royal customer.So,everybody please don't consider my suggestion,what I'm comment in i3 just personal sharing,that's why I never suggest everybody to buy or sell.No hard feeling for you impartially,just I'm wonder why all your posting just at Ivory only out of >1k listing company in Bursa.

Posted by Raymond Tiruchelvam > 2013-03-10 14:17 | Report Abuse

Hustle... where is ur kopi stall? I want to join u for cofee... dont charge too high ah :)

Posted by KC Loh > 2013-03-10 14:27 | Report Abuse

Yeah, where your backlane coffee stall?

Posted by setia2u > 2013-03-11 16:01 | Report Abuse

despite of someone's bad comments on this company, the price is still holding well, in fact gone up!!!! somebody try to be smarter than market?

Posted by setia2u > 2013-03-11 16:05 | Report Abuse

Let's go Penang this school holiday and visit their sites, perhaps purchase one or two units.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-11 17:45 | Report Abuse

Posted by setia2u > Mar 11, 2013 04:01 PM | Report Abuse
despite of someone's bad comments on this company, the price is still holding well, in fact gone up!!!! somebody try to be smarter than market?

Looks like Ivory is holding so well, fantastic, incredible! Yeah lah, who is that "somebody" trying to be smarter than the market? The table below shows the short-term (2 weeks) and longer term return (half year, one year and two years) of Ivory share price in relative to other property stocks. It has not taken into the considerations of dividend payment. See how Mr Market treat this fabulous company named Ivory below.

Date 11/03/2013
Company 2-weeks 6-month 1-year 2-year
Ivory 1.0% -1.0% -31.8% -26.3%
Tambun Indah 8.4% 37.7% 44.2% 35.5%
E&O 7.2% 4.5% 2.5% 43.5%
Hua Yang 12.3% 22.5% 45.0% 185.2%
Plenitude 5.1% 0.0% -11.0% -13.0%
Asas Dunia 3.6% -13.8% 34.6% 60.0%
Dijacor 18.6% 45.7% 27.3% 53.0%
MKH 19.0% 3.9% 22.4% 53.2%
KSL 7.4% 18.2% 14.7% 0.0%
Tebrau 15.7% 51.5% 18.4% 35.5%

Who is the smartest guy in the room?