Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 20:54 | Report Abuse

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Crashing-Copper-Prices-Spell-Trouble-For-Oil.amp.html

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 20:56 | Report Abuse

Feeling based on past icon shares record, con us small shareholders to max..... From ipo till consolidation, maybe rights issue is their subsequent episode of con action......

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 20:57 | Report Abuse

Let u subscribe at 0.105, trap your hard earned money by maintaining price below 0.105....

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 20:57 | Report Abuse

In fact, I still have tomorrow or next Monday to decide.....to buy my rights or not .....

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 20:58 | Report Abuse

This is one of my hardest decision making in my lifetime.......

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 20:58 | Report Abuse

If I plan to hold for years, I don't mind subscribe

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 21:00 | Report Abuse

The thing is, I plan to get back at least some portion of my losses in this icon only......but worrying this rights will bring my money buried deep into somewhere of nowhere..........

Posted by jaynetan > 2020-02-06 21:07 | Report Abuse

What is the purpose of pressing the price?
If your THEY refer to the major share holders, are they that stupid when they need to subscribe at 10.5 sen? If u are THEY, are you going to do that?

Share market keeps changes, expecially oil & gas counters. Look at renong, transmile, hwatai n some more. All con as you might say.
Even the old government, n now the new government.

So, where to hide?
Be prepared in the market, n so on in life

Posted by IbnuShaari > 2020-02-06 21:29 | Report Abuse

@jaynetan :-
My logic is simple:

a) The situation today economy-wise even worse than before, do you think Icon will make a miracle going against the trend on 20th Feb. while the FDI or foreign player not coming or rather not strongly present and continue pulling out from our market, what we expect?..

Posted by IbnuShaari > 2020-02-06 21:29 | Report Abuse

b) There will be 4.8bil shares will flood the market where the majority of these shareholders are having heavy loses not only due to consolidation but also price drop from where they bought. Certainly these people are trying to minimise loses or getting back their capital at least 10.5cents of RI cost. There are many will not subscribe for fear to have more loses. Then underwriter have to take unsubscribe unit.

Posted by OTB > 2020-02-06 21:43 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by jaynetan > 2020-02-06 21:48 | Report Abuse

Otb, i like your reasoning.
That is what we need to be rational, rather complaining.
Well, simple, i don't say it is good.
But be rational.
I dare not FORTUNE or FUTURE telling.
I rather take it or leave it

Posted by Carpophorus > 2020-02-06 22:20 | Report Abuse

Posted by Carpophorus > Feb 6, 2020 8:39 PM | Report Abuse X
.........

Just for learning purposes, can someone explain the rationale for the share consolidation of 50 into 1, then followed by this 100 RI for consolidated share? What's the effect as compared to just a Rights Issue of 2 RI for every 1 original share? No need for consolidation. What's the difference?

Thanks!


Any chance of getting an explanation here from all the gurus and sifus here? Still wondering why the convoluted exercise ....

Posted by ferdtwh > 2020-02-06 22:22 | Report Abuse

Rights issue : Take it
Result = get back some small portion of previous investment (when price up)
OR
additional money being locked into this icon somemore (when price down)........

Rights issue : Give up
Result = lost all, end of story, lesson learned

How to choose...............

Posted by stockjobber > 2020-02-06 22:37 | Report Abuse

Hi, OTB, may I know what is your recommendation ? Subscribe the RI or forget it ? Thanks in advance

Posted by OTB > 2020-02-06 23:35 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kk7198 > 2020-02-06 23:58 | Report Abuse

@OTB,thank you and agreed with your opinion.Newbie here and first time in this counter.I bought 200,000 OR shares at 0.005 sen and had paid RM 21,000.00 for the right issue.I think can make some money with the sweetener, free warrant of 40,000 units.

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 05:33 | Report Abuse

Otb In theory u cant lose money bcoz all the previous had lost money?

What kind of theory is that??????????

In sapnrg's rights issues during 2018, all r losing more money in the rights issues if they r still holding now....

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 05:38 | Report Abuse

Its case to case basis..u may make money fm perdana n naim n dayang's rights issues...by now lah...but in icon's case may not be b the same...dont forget the 2b additional shares converted fm the bank loans...n eventually a 4b+ share based co with 400m+ debts with bleeding biz

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 05:39 | Report Abuse

Unless otb again can play god in icon...just like jaks, vis etc..

Dont play play with stock god otb..

Lc stock also can fly to.the sky...

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 05:48 | Report Abuse

When someone talked good abt yr share u call it reasoning, rational

When someone talked bad abt yr share u called it complaining...

Aiyo...c the contents lah.. whether they r facts or not lah

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 05:51 | Report Abuse

Pray for the reputable shareholders to goreng kuat kuat upon listing of the rights shares n new warrants...the recent round nobody made fm the 2B OR..except some smart or lucky ones made fm the 20m+ mother shares..

Posted by OKU_2020 > 2020-02-07 07:40 | Report Abuse

Posted by Carpophorus > Feb 6, 2020 8:39 PM | Report Abuse X
.........

Just for learning purposes, can someone explain the rationale for the share consolidation of 50 into 1, then followed by this 100 RI for consolidated share? What's the effect as compared to just a Rights Issue of 2 RI for every 1 original share? No need for consolidation. What's the difference?

Thanks!


Any chance of getting an explanation here from all the gurus and sifus here? Still wondering why the convoluted exercise ....
---------------------------------------

Noted Carpophorus...Why consolidation ? if just 2X5 = 10 = 5 x2 =10
it's tactical - so that they can minimize their loss..- see TH Lebai Jamaah - edi cabutt- sold all
will be back to square one - sick cap ayam flooded with shares again

Posted by kk7198 > 2020-02-07 07:52 | Report Abuse

Sell lah when you are in profit unless you can forsee good future in this cap ayam company.

Posted by QQflying > 2020-02-07 08:16 | Report Abuse

this stock will up abit then slow slow drop below 0.1

Posted by stockjobber > 2020-02-07 09:11 | Report Abuse

OTB Thanks for the advice

Posted by IbnuShaari > 2020-02-07 09:26 | Report Abuse

Some facts about ICON :
Before Consolidation:
Total Shares: 1177,185,000
IPO Price: RM1.85, drop finally to 0.035 cents

After Consolidation:
Total Shares : 2377, 913,902
Warrant : 588, 592,550
Price : ?? (mother currently 0.25 cents with 23,543,702 shares floated before 20th Feb)

Posted by Kedahan > 2020-02-07 10:06 | Report Abuse

Cap ayam 24 sen vs cap emas Dayang RM 2.8 which can grow more?

kk7198 Sell lah when you are in profit unless you can forsee good future in this cap ayam company.
07/02/2020 7:52 AM

Posted by DickyMe2 > 2020-02-07 10:07 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by zhangzuode > 2020-02-07 10:55 | Report Abuse

The financiers rights shares issued - 262,059,095, and warrants - 65,514,768. Assume convert all warrant to shares, total financiers shares will be 327,573,863 ONLY.

Now there will be further shares to be issued to financiers called the Exchange Shares. These Exchange Shares will be issued 4 to 8 years from today.

Nonetheless, the number of Exchange Shares is estimated at 639,097,912. Thus the total possible financiers shares NOW is 327,573,863. And 4 to 8 years later (2023 to 2027), it will be 966,671,775, assuming the financiers have not sold their shares.

This is much less than the 2 billion shares mentioned to be financiers shares.

Really appreciate if one is to comment, please comment with correct fact.

Yes, 2,354,370,200 shares will be issued to all shareholders and this is 2x pre-consolidated 1,177,185,100 shares or 100x consolidated shares.

The major shareholders irrevocably undertake to subscript up to 1,385,714,285 (minimum) and 1,742,857,142 (maximum) i.e. RM 145.5 million to RM 183 million. Please do give due consideration to this undertaking.

The fear that the major shareholders and financiers will "DUMP" their shares on 20 Feb is IMHO, misplaced. Put yourself in their shoes - would you do it? There is the reputation at stake - after going through the hardship to raise fund just to dump the shares, especially the financiers - they will lose more than the amount of loan that was offset (by accepting shares in kind for RM 27.5 million NOW and RM 75.4 million 4 to 8 years later).

Now whether the O&G industry will "tank" or not, should be the main question to ask to determine whether to subscript or NOT if one is to "invest".

Also based on the minimum amount to be raised, RM 183 million, and main shareholders has agreed to come up with RM 145.5 million, ONLY RM 37.5 million need to be raised from retailers (you and me), i.e. ONLY 357,142,856 rights shares with 89,285,714 warrants. NOW, the "dumping" of shares would most likely be ONLY 357 million shares and NEVER ever be 2 billion shares.

Hopefully this put some perspective to the issue at hand.

Happy investing.

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 11:02 | Report Abuse

What reputation they hv? Fm ipo rm1.85 to 0.035?

Cornered the shares after 50 into 1 n goreng sky high to get designated stock?

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 11:11 | Report Abuse

The enlarged 4b+ shares is stated in the circular..eventually it will be 5b+ after the conversion of wa (if)

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 11:13 | Report Abuse

Again if most of the rights goes to the reputable shareholder n not much of dumping fm the finiancial shares...the posibility of goreng upon listing is still there

Posted by CharlesT > 2020-02-07 11:20 | Report Abuse

When some people here keeps mentioning abt icon's reputable shareholder n reputation at stake blah blah..

How on earth in the first place do they deserved to be called so?

Care to share?

Posted by zhangzuode > 2020-02-07 11:21 | Report Abuse

Yes, there is no reputation. ICON management knew that the oil price was to go down and still went ahead with the IPO in May 2014. The many financiers also knew about the tanking oil price but ignore it and loan millions to ICON. The nine corner stone investors - Tan Sri Chua Ma Yu, government-linked funds Lembaga Tabung Haji and Permodalan Nasional Bhd, and the usual cadre of fund management firms, such as Hwang Investment Management Bhd, Maybank Asset Management Sdn Bhd and Nomura Asset Management Sdn Bhd were also of ill reputation and invested.

And they knew the coronavirus was coming way back in 19 Aug 2019 when ICON announced the restructuring.

Yes these were all persons with ill reputation, out to con retailers. Please do not subscript then, what the point of even posting any comments at all if one just refuses to consider the prevailing conditions then and now.

Nonetheless, have a good day.

Posted by Seek > 2020-02-07 11:42 | Report Abuse

Thanks Zhang. Much clearer now!

Posted by sheep > 2020-02-07 12:14 | Report Abuse

Zhang: And they knew the coronavirus was coming way back in *19 Aug 2019* when ICON announced the restructuring.

Hahaha, it's better to be thought an idiot than to open one's motuh and erases all doubt.

Thanks zhang.. much clearer now.....wakakaka

Posted by OTB > 2020-02-07 12:53 | Report Abuse

Dear zhangzuode,
Very good write-up. Thank you for your explanation.
I agreed with you, new major shareholders will not sell otherwise all effort is wasted.

I want to relate this restructuring to Perdana, how is the performance of Perdana share after restructuring ?

I hope readers here will check my background and all my past postings in I3.
I always talk with facts and figures.
There is no 100% sure win in stock market, there is always a risk in stock investment.
It is a matter how you manage this risk.

Final decision to subscribe is always yours.
Thank you.

Posted by Shareview123 > 2020-02-07 14:28 | Report Abuse

What is the difference between
1) Right issue with consolidation of 50 become 1 and followed by Right issue of 100 for 1.

2) Right issue. without consolidation of 50 become 1 and just 2 for 1.

The main reasons are as below

Assume a retail buyer owned 100,000 shares before consolidation of 50 become 1
, and his cost of investment = 100,000 x 0.035 = 3500

After consolidation of 50 become 1, if the retail buyer does not subscribe to the right issue and he sell his shares after ex date between 0.20 and 0.90, he can get back

a) ( 100,000 ÷ 50) x 0.20 = 400

b ) ( 100,000 ÷ 50) x 0.90 = 1800

so, he can only get back between 200 and 1800 only.
If he sell after the listing of right issue shares, may be he can only get back
( 100,000 ÷ 50) x 0.10 = 200 only.

So we can see that the retailer can only suffer loss. It means if the existing shareholders want to continue to play, they must pay new money to play the game.

2 ) if no consolidation of 50 become 1 and just right issue of 2 for 1 at 0.105 ( just leave free warrants issue aside). Most likely all the retailers will not subscribe for the Right issue, and the major shareholders, banks and the underwriters have to pay. Say the listing price after right issue completed is 0.10, the shareholders with 100,000 shares can sell all at 0.10 and get 10,000 campared with his original cost of investment of 3500, his gain is 185 % or
6500 ( 10,000 less 3500 ), in this case all the retailer buyers will be laughing.

Posted by humbleme > 2020-02-07 15:00 | Report Abuse

Stockjobber/OTB/Zhangzuode

Thank you for your insight.
I personally think that the current wuhan virus epidemic may hinder oil price, but its temporary. If you plot oil price against other major virus outbreak, there were relatively minor movement.

On new job orders, eventually Petronas will still need to roll out more new contracts. Their view is not for 1 year, but for the next five year. You cant draw oil in a day. Lol

But my final take is this is for the long run, you cannot flip this in a month.

Posted by BearishTrend > 2020-02-07 15:23 | Report Abuse

Hari2 kne Con.. Drop lagi.. After feed up.. Cut Lost below 20cts

Posted by Carpophorus > 2020-02-07 15:35 | Report Abuse

Shareview123,
" .....the shareholders with 100,000 shares can sell all at 0.10 and get 10,000 campared with his original cost of investment of 3500, his gain is 185 % or
6500 ( 10,000 less 3500 ), in this case all the retailer buyers will be laughing."

That sounds too simplistic. What is there to stop the shareholders from selling now at 0.23 for a gain of 19,500 (or 557%) ... and have a bigger laugh?

Posted by anzo888 > 2020-02-07 17:14 | Report Abuse

For those who bought cum, they have to subscribe to the rights in order not to lose any money. There is no way one can make money had they bought come.

Posted by anzo888 > 2020-02-07 17:15 | Report Abuse

even if they sold after ex, at 90 sen, they still need to lose money as the OR only fetched 0.5 sen.

Posted by anzo888 > 2020-02-07 17:16 | Report Abuse

this exercise is well calculated to catch ikan bilis. Too bad , many fell for it.

Posted by anzo888 > 2020-02-07 17:19 | Report Abuse

now got to subscribe for the rights and hope the price is AT LEAST 9.5/10 sen upon listing on 20/2. Anything below that will most likely be a loss.

Posted by anzo888 > 2020-02-07 17:21 | Report Abuse

dont forget creditors have probably provided for the loan loss. any amount they can get back is recognised as profit. (bad debts recovered)

Posted by anzo888 > 2020-02-07 17:22 | Report Abuse

anyway, i might be interested to buy into icon a few days after listing when selling has subside, if the price is right.

Posted by Shareview123 > 2020-02-07 17:36 | Report Abuse

@ Carpophorus, you may need to read through
the relevant comments made by the i3investors since 20 Jan 2020 for your benefits.
Those who bought 100,000 shares before ex date and can sell 100,000 shares after ex date must be God's chosen one, may be you are the chosen one.

Posted by Shareview123 > 2020-02-07 17:43 | Report Abuse

Icon before this right issue was a gone case. All shareholders suffered losses. After the right issue completed, all shareholders start a new game.
The price of the new ICON shares depends on the capability of the management, crude oil price, the ability to get better contracts and other factors.