Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 09:40 | Report Abuse

philip, welcome to mi forum. Mi basically sells in-house wafer level chip scale packaging die sorting machines to OSATs and IDMs players. Their upcoming 4 more machines series including those capabilities like testing, inspecting, bonding, recontructing and etc. Currently their clients are mostly top tier players, Mi is current leader by far in malaysia, competing with japanese and european players.

Posted by value88 > 2019-09-13 09:48 | Report Abuse

MI will be a beneficiary because they sell their test equipment to China's chip manufacturers.
Other Malaysian OSAT companies, eg. MPI, who has plant in China will also a beneficiary when Huawei transfer their order from US companies to local companies in China.

Posted by qqq3 > Sep 13, 2019 9:24 AM | Report Abuse

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Cover-Story/Inside-Huawei-s-secret-p... and if MI is one of the beneficiaries, this share will more than double................................................................

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 09:52 | Report Abuse

monetary, vitrox is not doing WLCSP, they only sell testing equipments. They are not exactly in same industry. However, Mi equipment do have some of these testing functions.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-09-13 09:54 | Report Abuse

vitrox is the undisputed leader in Malaysia..............

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-09-13 09:56 | Report Abuse

I got MI and MPI....and Vitrox is my long term favorite with excellent management and reputation.......

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-09-13 09:58 | Report Abuse

vitrox is the undisputed leader in Malaysia..............but I guess not in identical business segments.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-09-13 10:00 | Report Abuse

qqq3 last few months only oil and gas shares got trading interests............but OG no long term future......smart are those who pivots to technology...........



OG really no long term future........I have read articles that says in 10 years, oil got to come down US$ 10 -US$ 20 to be competitive with renewable in cars............

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-09-13 10:01 | Report Abuse

If every intact
Mi shud kaboom to 3.00 by end 2020

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-09-13 10:01 | Report Abuse

Still offer much better value over istone at 0.190

Posted by lambsauce > 2019-09-13 10:05 | Report Abuse

MI is in different biz segment with Vitrox la...

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-09-13 10:14 | Report Abuse

Who say ?
Mi shall be no.2 vitrox
Go check their products, u will know.

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 10:17 | Report Abuse

qqq3, although vitrox and mi is selling equipment, vitrox is doing only test & vision equipments. Where else, mi is doing assembly & pacakaging equipments and also test & vision equipments. It’s a huge differences as entry barriers are higher for assembly and packaging players

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-09-13 10:40 | Report Abuse

y popo92 > Sep 13, 2019 10:17 AM | Report Abuse

qqq3, although vitrox and mi is selling equipment, vitrox is doing only test & vision equipments. Where else, mi is doing assembly & pacakaging equipments and also test & vision equipments. It’s a huge differences as entry barriers are higher for assembly and packaging players
===========

I don't know the details but Vitrox spends more on research and their research into machine vision and machine learning aka manufacturing 4.0 is impressive.

MI also must have done right looking at its last reports and if that continues , shareholders will be rewarded with at least a doubling............wish some one can visit them on my behalf....and MI is expanding their facilities too...............

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 10:43 | Report Abuse

Monetary, I think you need to understand so far MI results only mi series are contributing... assembly & packaging equipments. For testing and vision equipments are only adding on in near future (they already have those series prepared). Vitrox in the other hand is the leader of testing & vision equipments in malaysia and competing with quite a numbers of players in local already. I am only describing the very broad view of what they doing.. the real insight left you guys to dig into

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-09-13 10:52 | Report Abuse

Vitrox market cap $ 3.3 billion
MI $ 1 billion.....


I guess its also left to taste which is preferred............or both....lol.....

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 10:57 | Report Abuse

popo92. R u saying they haven't start selling vi & si? Can vi & si compete with vitrox?

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 11:11 | Report Abuse

Yes, their vi, si, ai and li are pending for clients acceptance. Basically, vitrox and mi are not really competing each other so far. But I do heard vitrox and penta are mi’s indirect customer.

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 11:13 | Report Abuse

die... put so much $ here only now realised the real picture. lol! thanks, popo. NVR stop learning.

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 12:42 | Report Abuse

Because of different value chain Vitrox is not competing with Mi, Mi is competing with international players like ASM, Besi and etc..

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-13 12:46 | Report Abuse

definitely not willing to share so much for free as valuation is still so cheap now if you know what i mean. good lucks everyone

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 16:15 | Report Abuse

Valuation is future earning projection. Nobody can get it right. Even the management sometime fail to hit target or get a windfall by surprise. Infor is v important. Obviously most ppl in this thread seal their lips.

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 16:17 | Report Abuse

At least popo has shared some important insights. We should thank him.

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-09-13 16:19 | Report Abuse

Agree...

Posted by yangxi > 2019-09-13 17:03 | Report Abuse

manage sold out at RM2.08. earn sikit. happy

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 17:38 | Report Abuse

Popo has given enuf tips. Google ASM & Besi. They make similar packaging machines as MI. Any local firm making these machine besides MI? Non. So stop comparing MI to Vitrox, guys. It's orange to apple comparison. MI is the 1 and only.
I wonder why vitrox deserve pe 30. Unlike MI it has local competitors. Penta make testing machines too n it's products spec looks equally sophisticated to a layman. Shouldn't it b Vitrox pe 20 Mi pe 30?

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 17:58 | Report Abuse

MI testing machine won't b competition with Vitrox's machines. As popo said both co r in different value chains. MI can provide 一条龙 service to it's customers who don't have Vitrox's testing machine. There's no conflict of interest. Hey, guys. Can Vitrox do the same? No! They don't have packaging machine. Lol!

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-13 18:03 | Report Abuse

If vitrox can hit pe30 no reason mi can't. hold it tight.

Posted by rojakmee > 2019-09-13 20:13 | Report Abuse

woow, suddenly so many comments

Posted by (HK1997 again) Philip > 2019-09-13 21:55 | Report Abuse

There are 2 points i an wondering about:

1. Their products have not gained full acceptance yet. In an effort to do so, they have built demonstration machines to show off their capabilities. Apparently all the demonstration machines were then sold and they're in the process of building more. How long does it take them to build one machine turnaround usually? Their main specialty is in osats market and semiconductor quality testing. Their current main customer is ASE, I'm trying to figure out how much of the cake they have a potential to take and who the major supplier to ASE is.

2. I'm always worried about long term profit margins of companies who use the tax free incentive from MITI as a way of generating extraordinary earnings within the 5 years it is available. As the company I am working for also had the MITI tax free incentive, we used the tax free profits to push more sales and revenue. This drastically dropped when the tax incentive ended, but clients were used to our low prices so when it ended we had a huge problem keeping up margins. If you take a look at the before and after of mikro MSc bhd you will get an idea of what I mean of the long term effects of this competitive value. I guess what I mean is: how is mi competing with the other Taiwanese, Korean, China and Japanese firms, is it with price? Quality? A special patent? Will mi still be viable or will it suffer when it has to start paying 24% taxes on earnings before tax.

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-09-13 22:39 | Report Abuse

Objective of Miti
Doesn't encourage a pioneer player ti take advantage from such tax exemption... this phenomenon happen before.

But, miti has a way in detecting how an pioneer player manipulate such scheme.

However, thx to Philip for the awareness bring up.

Posted by rojakmee > 2019-09-13 23:06 | Report Abuse

whatever you all are saying, expect MI to cross RM2.5 soon

Posted by ccy123 > 2019-09-14 07:14 | Report Abuse

I only know one thing in share Investment, ie when everything is super clear then no need to invest already. Philip

Posted by ccy123 > 2019-09-14 07:16 | Report Abuse

To tell the truth i really don't know what business this MI involves in, i just buy invest when the price dropped below 1.80. i buy all the say down to 1.48

Posted by ccy123 > 2019-09-14 07:16 | Report Abuse

one day I will sell but not now

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-14 07:36 | Report Abuse

MI MITI pioneer status incentive ended on 17 January 2019. MI has submitted it's application for renewal and is currently awaiting the decision from relevant authorities.

So is the tax exemption renewal approved? It's crucial since MI is trying to gain market share for it's machines. MI rolling 4Q net margin is 30%, which is the highest among it's peers. Vitrox 26.7% n Penta 16%. I assume even without the tax exemption MI will have decent margin.

Posted by freddiehero > 2019-09-14 07:46 | Report Abuse

wah lau eh.. so early wan fly liao?

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-14 07:48 | Report Abuse

If u don know MI deeply who do u decide when to exit? 2.5 or 3? By guessing? If MI has some unleashed potential it could go through a few time bonus 翻倍又翻倍。U will miss all the opportunities. How much $ u dare to put into MI if u don know?

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-14 08:02 | Report Abuse

I bought MI since May. If I found something not right I sell on the next market day. If I find more value in MI I continue buying. That's the difference of know n don know. I feel thankful to those who willing to share infor foc. Those who nvr share anything but making noises after taking infor for free is really shameful.

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-14 08:14 | Report Abuse

OK. Back to tax incentive. I don know how significant is machine selling contribute to MI rev compared to other segments. If the sale from Mi series is significant, sitting on 30% net margin proves that MI doesn't abuse it's tax incentive. It's business is sustainable.

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-14 08:39 | Report Abuse

2018AR segmental result
machine 90% spare parts 9.7% service insignificant

Posted by popo92 > 2019-09-15 12:08 | Report Abuse

Philip, you have pointed out very valuable considerations that I have doubted since ipo. You are right to say MI is in a position that they have not yet gained full acceptance. In fact, they are a dark horse in this very competitive game and they only focus on top tier clients. It’s not that easy for these top tier clients to even try out new supply chains machines. But now they see opportunities from current slowdown of semiconductor industry due to us-China trade war. Before they move into new bayan lepas factory, they can produce around 40 machines a month which normally they reach peak capacity, now with the fund they raised from ipo the newly constructed factory can produce 45 more machines per month.

The tax free incentives of semicon industry especially those in Penang are inevitable facts that they used to enjoy to compete. I do not know how these machines perform in details compare to best machines peers produce in market as I am not from this industry, but I did ask few engineers that work as MI clients (cant disclose) and they said these machines are comparable if not better than previous bought from company ****, and its in-house made which kinda impressing. Price vs quality is often two major issue in any business but in my own opinion, it’s minor in semiconductor business especially top tier players which MI is selling to. Having said that, management is very optimistic with their own products and capability and said that’s the reason they want to increase capacity by double and more are coming through baru kawan factory. I do not know how to value it’s very long term competitive advantage of its business as miti tax free and most importantly how their products can compete can change over time. But short to mid term, it’s business is in very interesting position that they might snatch some piece if not big slice of cake from the existing market by penetrating their new series machines. And some have already pointed out that recent us-china tech war have created a new supply chain in China and MI might be one of the beneficiaries.

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-15 18:44 | Report Abuse

Mind to disclose some more infor? The machine segment rev is entirely from sale of machine or combining sale & rental? Do MI competitors rent out their machines?

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-15 18:51 | Report Abuse

What is the number of packaging to testing machine ratio in a production line? If a new line is opened is it necessary to purchase new testing machine? Or the existing testing machines can handle a few production lines?

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-15 19:03 | Report Abuse

To avoid misunderstanding my previous vocal comments aren't directed to ppl who voice out different opinions or having doubts. Contrasting opinions r good as they verify our assumptions.

Posted by Growth > 2019-09-15 19:08 | Report Abuse

it is not produce a small product,a production line can produce how many items.
MI is selling tesitng machine or packaging machine. Expand factory just make it produce more machine from original capitaty of 14 machine expand to produce 45 machine a month.

Posted by monetary > 2019-09-15 19:32 | Report Abuse

Growth. I think u misunderstood my question. I m asking if MI clints open a new production line. Not the production capacity of MI new factory. The motive of my question is to find out the chamces for MI to market it's testing machines.

Posted by MK76 > 2019-09-17 07:48 | Report Abuse

I heard from friends that a company in bayan leaps has just received two production lines from MI. Solid and worth the price. Sedap if margin is 30% as shared by monetary. MI has the potential in the long run. If price can stay above 2.0 this week, I nak beli.

Posted by MK76 > 2019-09-17 11:54 | Report Abuse

Fly slowly MI. Not too fast.

Posted by Hwai Hooi > 2019-09-17 12:11 | Report Abuse

2.1

Posted by yangxi > 2019-09-17 12:37 | Report Abuse

so much ppl ask buy call... time to sell haha