Sslee

After 15 years (2019 - 2024), ICIVF [i Capital International Value Fund (ARSN 134 578 180)] delivered a total return of 19.11% to its shareholders (that is, 1.274% return per year).

What are the possible reasons for such poor performance of ICIVF?

Could it be one of the reason is TTB sleeping on the job?

1 month ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

JohnDOugh maybe able to shed more lights.

1 month ago

Sslee

Sleeping on the job and still getting well paid is one of the best job one can hope for.
Kudos to TTB

1 month ago

FastMoney666

It is well known that the Fund Manager has been bearish from 2013 - 2018 with cash holding between 50-68% cash.

His justification was scooping up dirt cheap stocks when it is crash like 2020 to achieve superior CAGR of 15-18%. Is it true?

2013 NAV 211 mln/cash 107 mln/Investment(non-cash) 104 mln

2024 NAV 377 mln/cash 52 mln/Investment(non-cash) 318 mln.

For the 11 years using this strategy CAGR return was only 5.2%.

Assuming the reduction of 54 mln cash was deployed into investment, his 158 mln(104+54) turning into 318 mln, non-cash CAGR return is only 6.5%

So what is the problem here?

Every finance student must know this, the basis of evaluating any investment, must exceed this bar to be adding value. So if the fund manager is talking about X% IRR or whatever the figure, the equivalent non cash portion of the assets must earn an extra X% to make up for the zero returns from the cash, which is not earning much after paying management fees. If you have only one leg to stand on, it must be twice as strong to support the whole body weight then, such simple logic.

BTW, if his strategy was working, NAV should have grown from 211 mln(2013) to 983 mln(2024) with 15% CAGR.

Assuming he started to invest aggressively in 2018 at NAV 229 mln, to hit 983 mln, needs CAGR of 27% for 6 years to make up the lost time. He needs to increase NAV by 754 mln within that 6 years not 142 mln... his CAGR of scooping at dirt low price with a lot cash from 2018 till 2024 was disappointing, only manage to return 8.2%.

1 month ago

FastMoney666

It's works for WB by holding a lot of cash but it does NOT work for fake WB of Msia is my conclusion.

1 month ago

FastMoney666

I hope that was his last posting on sitting on tonnes of cash to produce superior returns to avoid embarrassment and mislead people. People know how to use financial calculator these days. 😂😂

1 month ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

Few will disagree the return on your investment is proportionate to the amount of effort, focus and concentration you give to managing the portfolio.

Unfortunately, from observing the growth of Capital Dynamics, this might not be the case. Why? There are so many distractions. Launching new funds. Organising various seminars and symposiums at regular intervals. These are definitely consuming valuable times.

1 month ago

Income

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Oct 17, 2024 1:20 PM | Report Abuse

Few will disagree the return on your investment is proportionate to the amount of effort, focus and concentration you give to managing the portfolio.

？

Prof. i3 why a don't take care of mikecyc who is your student?

1 month ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

Peter Lynch is a strong advocate for the bottom up approach, tending to focus on the company fundamentals (quality) and its valuation. He feels that spending more than 10 minutes on macroeconomic issues is 10 minutes of time poorly spent.

It is my observation that iCap newsletter prides itself on understanding and analysing the various macro-economic factors in various countries and various sectors. Alas, it is also my humble observation, that these huge effort in macro-economic issues contributed little to the performance of its managed funds. Perhaps, time maybe better spent focusing on screening companies.

1 month ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

The new 2% tax on those receiving > RM 100,000 yearly dividends: dividends from closed end fund are exempted.

1 month ago

MG9231

@ integrity , Intelligent ....
Why do you invest?

A simple benchmark is to have a return better than the risk free interest rate.
Perhaps, 2x that of the risk free interest rate.

Why do you invest into a fund?

Believing that the chosen fund manager has the ability to deliver a good return over the long term.


What is the long term return of ICIVF?

After 15 years (2019 - 2024), ICIVF [i Capital International Value Fund (ARSN 134 578 180)] delivered a total return of 19.11% to its shareholders (that is, 1.274% return per year).


What are the possible reasons for such poor performance of ICIVF?
%%%%%%%%%%%
Reason: fund manger TTB spent his time more on talk cock rather than concentrate on manging his fund

1 month ago

zhangwin

Icap dividend > RM1000,000 is subject to 2% tax. Only unit trusts (open ended funds), PNB funds, EPF and foreign div are exempted.

@ Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Oct 19, 2024 9:47 AM | Report Abuse

The new 2% tax on those receiving > RM 100,000 yearly dividends: dividends from closed end fund are exempted.

1 month ago

zhangwin

RM > RM100,000

1 month ago

chonghai

TTB should just shut up and focus on deliver NAV Compound. If he can compound it at CAGR of 15% or more, London or New York boys are not a threat at all. In fact, shareholder will probably pray that he lives forever and continue manage the fund. I collect ICAP past 1 year from 2.5 to 3.2. I am waiting to see the if the fund will be dissolved and give us a quick return of those NAV

1 month ago

Income

I cap, mati law with 2 heliridends taxes
Kena tax Kaw kaw。How?

1 month ago

ScotFree

He is just a fake, trying to imitate WB. Just go and drive GRAB lah... entertaining his passengers lol

1 month ago

Sslee

In this world only got one and only one WB. All the others WB wannable are fake.

1 month ago

chopstick

as for me, , i just finish my happy hour, just google who 's life is so boring, facing i3 platform whole days, nothing much u can do

1 month ago

enigmatic [bamboo investing style]

chonghai,
Probability for this Closed-End Fund to dissolve is highly impossible. Many shareowners would want its continuance until the Designated Person passes on.

1 month ago

JohnD0ugh

As I have shown above, what is even worse than the harassment is that this large activist foreign voter and its collaborators have bashed the shares of your Fund, just like Slater Walker did with Haw Par.

This bashing has huge detrimental impact on your Fund and more importantly on the development of a closed-end fund industry in Malaysia. The same group of activists has previously wound up another listed closed-end fund, Amanah Millenia Fund in 2007.

Unlike other listed Funds or listed companies, icapital.biz Berhad was intentionally set up and promoted by myself with a unique objective on top of a social mission.

The objective was not just narrowly financial but it also was broader and to demonstrate that sound long-term investing by individuals can work in Malaysia.

Achieving such a long-term social economic objective is an important part of nation building and can bring about many positive contributions to the development of this young country and its capital market.

It can also help bring about a better society. While Lee Kuan Yew wanted to make sure that Slater Walker did not destroy Singapore’s reputation as a global financial centre, successfully building icapital.biz Berhad is to me very similar to building a better Malaysia.

We have worked very hard and with our heart to attract and maintain high quality share owners in icapital.biz Berhad. We still have a very long way to go in this daunting journey. As your Fund’s Designated Person, I truly envy the highly favourable and positively constructive situation Warren Buffett is in with his Berkshire Hathaway.


i Capital.biz Berhad 2024 Annual Report

1 month ago

Sslee

Just wonder had TTB give any thought why icapital or rather TTB failed to acheived the objective?

Is it because of large activist foreign voter and its collaborators have bashed the shares of your Fund?

Or because TTB can't even acheived his low bar of doubling your money within 5 to 8 years?

1 month ago

Income

People exits from I cap?

1 month ago

chonghai

If TTB can compound ICAP NAV even at a rate of 15% per year, no bashing will work.

1 month ago

ScotFree

Ttb is comparing himself as the next Lee Kuan Yew

1 month ago

Najib Zamry

TTB keeps his words. 10.41 sen dividend declared. 3.4% dividend yield. Not bad ya

1 month ago

i3gambler

Under the written procedures established by ICAP pursuant to the Securities Industry (Central Depositories) (Foreign Ownership) Regulations 1996, foreigners who hold Shares which are within the prescribed limit of 20% of the total number of issued Shares ("Prescribed Limit") shall be entitled to the Interim Dividend and are entitled to participate in the DRP provided that such participation will not result in a breach of the Prescribed Limit.

I read the above remarks from the yesterday dividend announcement.

I have a few questions:
Meaning COL needs to dispose their shareholding to below 28m in order to entitle for the dividend and DRIP?
As on 21st Oct, they still have 30.8m, they need to dispose another 2.8m shares in the next few trading days?
Then we better don't rush in to buy now, as the share price could go further down?
What if COL could not dispose to below 28m shares, will they sue ICAP/TTB?
Who is going to pay for the legal fees then? ICAP or TTB?

1 month ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

All shareholders have equal entitlements.

1 month ago

i3gambler

That is what ICAP said, foreigners have equal right provided they hold not more than 20%.
And it look like COL try to bring down their holding to 20% or less.

1 month ago

Sslee

Is TTB now saying he paid COL the 2021 dividend by mistake?
Can someone ask TTB to file a legal claim to COL to pay back the 2021 dividend?

Ann. Date
Ex Date
Type
Subject
Amount
22-Oct-2024 05-Nov-2024 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.1041
18-Nov-2021 17-Dec-2021 DIVIDEND Special Dividend RM 0.2000
22-Aug-2013 17-Sep-2013 DIVIDEND Special Dividend RM 0.095

1 month ago

JohnD0ugh

In my commentary in last year’s annual report, I gave my positive outlook on Malaysia. Briefly, I wrote that from a macro viewpoint, “Malaysia’s domestic political development has entered a new stage, one which I think heralds better political governance, promises a better and stable government and hence a better Malaysia.

With Malaysia blessed as a country with great and plentiful human talents, the anticipated new era will give birth to a country which will once again be on the right path of fulfilling her potential. I expect the Malaysian stock market to be a beneficiary.”

Then, in my talk on 5th November at the 2023 Investor Day, I forecasted that the KLCI would reach 2,500 to 3,000 points in the next three to five years. Nearly one year later, my longer-term bullish views of Malaysia and her stock market have remained the same.

With this, it is very timely for me to remind share owners about a very important principle on compound return. Investors are told it is never wrong to take a profit. Charlie Munger has a simple answer for this question.

“The first rule of compounding: Never interrupt it unnecessarily” - Charlie Munger

His advice is one of the most important principles on successful investing. Investors should not interrupt that compounding lightly. The combination of Malaysia entering a better era, icapital.biz Berhad invested in more stocks and a high quality share ownership structure can produce a very exciting future for your Fund’s NAV and share price.

Do not interrupt the compounding of your investment in icapital.biz Berhad.

Finally, let us remember what Lee Kuan Yew warned about Slater Walker. Let us all ensure that another British investor now does not destroy icapital.biz Berhad, a budding role model for Malaysian individual investors, and other companies listed on Bursa to emulate.


i Capital.biz Berhad 2024 Annual Report

3 weeks ago

Sslee

"Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble." - John Madden

3 weeks ago

Income

The director emoluments must be based on fund performance.
You must follow Warrant Buffalo fees charges for his fund.
Why can’t follow????

3 weeks ago

i3gambler

But the Expense Ratio of Open End Unit Trusts / Mutual Funds in Malaysia also around 2%.

3 weeks ago

i3gambler

Would someone pump up the ex-dividend price, otherwise look at the current market price, who wants to opt for DRIP?

3 weeks ago

Patient Investor

It doesnt matter if no one will participate in DRP. if there's no participation, the fund size shrinks and less liquidity, thats all. Berkshire-A shares don't split because they don't want too many trading activities on it.

3 weeks ago

i3gambler

Fund manager will receive less fee if the fund size shrinks.
However, I think TTB is a professional manager, he could have set the exercise price with huge discount so that certainly almost all unitholders would opt for DRIP.

3 weeks ago

JohnD0ugh

Most of the ASEAN economies are performing well (with Thailand being the exception). Besides, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia and Singapore have all recently seen stable political changes.

Given such positive trends and responsible societies, should the ASEAN stock markets, including that of Malaysia, not be trading at a premium to those found in conflict-torn areas like Europe and Britain ?

The same principle applies to the share price of icapital.biz Berhad. It should be trading at a premium or at least without discount.

Should the present large foreign investors allow the stock price of icapital.biz Bhd to trade without any interference, the discount of your Fund will disappear at a faster pace and its stock price will then be able to trade at a rational level earlier than otherwise. Your Fund, like Malaysia or ASEAN, has yet to be understood and appreciated.

I would like to share two useful quotes from Charlie Munger with our shareowners:

“People calculate too much and think too little.”

“The big money is not in the buying and the selling, but in the waiting.”


i Capital.biz Berhad 1Q2025 Report

2 weeks ago

Sslee

Thinking is not enough you need to put your thought into calculation or paper to get a clearly picture.

Only loser or those cannot perform or did not perform will quote below in the self fallacy if you wait long enough your stocks will start to perform.
“The big money is not in the buying and the selling, but in the waiting.”

2 weeks ago

Sslee

你知不知道 你知不知道 我等到花兒也謝了

2 weeks ago

leekengchan65

ICAP appears to be holding only 14.54% in cash. It seems he is bullish on the Malaysian stock market. But he is not optimistic about the U.S. stock market. And now the U.S. stock market is at a high record. If the US stock market falls, won’t Malaysia fall? This is a bit similar to what happened in 2008, when ICAP was only 15.58% cash left that time. Then he believed that because China is here, even if the U.S. stock market crashed, Malaysia and other countries in the world will not have problems. And we know the final result, he failed. This time is a bit similar to last time

2 weeks ago

Patient Investor

The dividend payout is only around 2.6% of NAV, so to the management fee its quite insignificant.

Its so interesting to watch its share price trading below the DRP offer price. Hope it drops further so i can buy from market.

2 weeks ago

i3gambler

140m*0.1041*1.5%Fee=219K per year, and for every subsequent years.

2 weeks ago

4dview

The more shareowners take up cash instead of DRP, the more TTB’s management and investment advisory fees will be dented.

1 week ago

JohnD0ugh

Whatever the outlook may be, I would like to reiterate to share owners that the portfolio of icapital.biz Berhad is managed based on the eclectic value investing philosophy of Capital Dynamics.

The margin of safety principle underlines it all and it takes on greater importance in an environment that is best summed up as “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.”


i Capital.biz Berhad 4Q2016 Report

1 week ago

Sslee

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities

If only you had bought ............instead of icapital. A Tale of Two.......

1 week ago

i3gambler

Checked Yahoo Finance just now,

1) ICAP=2.89, and the adjusted close price on 19th Oct 2005 was 0.8588.
The annualised return = (2.89/0.8588)^(1/19.07years)-1=6.57%,

2) KLCI=1,610.13, and it was 914.17 on 19th Oct 2005.
The annualised return = (1610.13/914.17)^(1/19.07years)-1=3.01%,
However, KLCI Dividend Yield was averaging around 3 to 4% for the past 19 years.
A total of 3.01%+3.50%=6.51%.

So I would say both ICAP and KLCI performance are about the same for the past 19 years.

1 week ago

FastMoney666

The fund manager always omitted the KLCI dividend when making comparisons and insisted that he had beaten the KLCI by a wide margin. 😎

1 week ago

JohnD0ugh

The concept of value investing is really simple. However, understanding and applying this time-proven investing style consistently is another story altogether.

Value investing is about finding the intrinsic value or sustainable earning power of a stock, a business or an asset and then buying it at an attractive price, which is always below the intrinsic value of the stock, business or asset.

Doing so provides the buyer a margin of safety, one of the central concepts in value investing.

i Capital.biz Berhad 4Q2015 Report

5 days ago

i3gambler

I took time to go through all quarterly reports from Feb 2017 to Aug 2024.
I copy and paste all the "Non-current assets" and "Current assets" to a speadsheet.
And calculate the ratio of "Current assets" over "Total Assets", more or less is the Cash Level.

I plot a chart.
I can see a very clear picture, the Cash Level was very high at around 65% from Nov 2018 to May 2020.
Then from May 2020, it is clear that the Cash Level drop from 65% to 17% at Aug 2024, almost like a straight line.

My calculation.
1) KLCI
From May 2020 to Aug 2024, KLCI grew up at an annualised rate of 3.1%.
The KLCI Dividend Yield was averaging at 4.1%.
Therefore the CAGR for KLCI including Dividend was 3.1% + 4.1% = 7.2%.
2) ICAP NAV
From May 2020 to Aug 2024, ICAP NAV's CAGR was 10.3%, including the 20 sen dividend.

Conclusion:
ICAP was correct to reduce the Cash Level from 65% to 17%.
And the result was ICAP out performing the KLCI+Dividend by 10.3% - 7.2% = 3.1%.
My expectation on ICAP is very reasonable, I would be happy as long as ICAP could beat KLCI+Dividend.
To me, a 3.1% out perform is already vey Good.

5 days ago

guatmingsuktbD

'The concept of value investing is really simple. However, understanding and applying this time-proven investing style consistently is another story altogether.'

Icap still living in dinosaur times, LOL.

3 days ago