Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 10:27 | Report Abuse

IN OTHER WORDS IT IS A COMPOUND RETURN OF RM 20K BASED ON 500% PA OVER 7 TO 8 YRS MAH....!!

Posted by stockraider > Aug 25, 2018 10:25 AM | Report Abuse X

AGAIN 3iii TRY TO MANIPULATE FIGURE & TRY TO IMPLY DISHONESTY LOH...!!

THE 500% RETURN PA....COME FROM THE BASED CAPITAL OF RM 20K 7 TO 8 YRS AGO MAH....!!

Posted by 3iii > Aug 25, 2018 10:11 AM | Report Abuse

Yes, would be interested to know how the 500% return was achieved or calculated.


Here is an extreme example of how a 500% return maybe calculated:

Initial investment amount $100,000
The stock rose 50%, and the portfolio amount reached $150,000
Sold $90,000 to get back his own capital, leaving only 10,000 of initial capital in the portfolio.


Calculation of return

Capital invested $10,000
Gain $50,000
Final value of portfolio $60,000

Investment return = $50,000 / $10,000 = 500%.

Posted by shpg22 > 2018-08-25 10:39 | Report Abuse

Those that hopping for more than 50% return P.A usually get the opposite with a negative. Be realistic.

Posted by 3iii > 2018-08-25 10:40 | Report Abuse

>>>Posted by CharlesT > Aug 25, 2018 10:29 AM | Report Abuse

Read again...he mentioned 500% return in 2017 alone<<<


Yes, it was 500% return in 2017.


>>> Posted by stockraider > Aug 25, 2018 10:27 AM | Report Abuse

IN OTHER WORDS IT IS A COMPOUND RETURN OF RM 20K BASED ON 500% PA OVER 7 TO 8 YRS MAH....!!

Posted by stockraider > Aug 25, 2018 10:25 AM | Report Abuse X

AGAIN 3iii TRY TO MANIPULATE FIGURE & TRY TO IMPLY DISHONESTY LOH...!!

THE 500% RETURN PA....COME FROM THE BASED CAPITAL OF RM 20K 7 TO 8 YRS AGO MAH....!! <<<

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 10:42 | Report Abuse

OK THEN RM 20K X 500% = RM 100K PROFIT LEVEL...!!
LAYMAN HISTORICAL WAY OF VALUATION LOH....!!

BUT IF ACTUAL CAPITAL PLUS PROFIT ACCUMULATED IS RM 700K....THE PROFIT OF RM 100K....WILL GIVE;
THE % PROFIT PA FOR 2017....IS 14.5% PA WHICH IS ALSO CONSIDER GOOD LOH.

Posted by CharlesT > Aug 25, 2018 10:29 AM | Report Abuse

Read again...he mentioned 500% return in 2017 alone

Posted by Patron > 2018-08-25 10:46 | Report Abuse

coincidentally i am rereading my market wizards series for the 14th time recently and this conversation by 26 years old kids are funny.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 10:48 | Report Abuse

IT IS RARE BUT POSSIBLE, RAIDER HAS SEEN & MET PEOPLE LIKE THAT MAH..!!

Posted by Patron > Aug 25, 2018 10:46 AM | Report Abuse

coincidentally i am rereading my market wizards series for the 14th time recently and this conversation by 26 years old kids are funny.

Posted by Koon Bee > 2018-08-25 10:48 | Report Abuse

My understanding of 500% in 2017 is based on the gain from 1/1/2017 - 31/12/2017 against total capital on 1/1/2017. Got any other type of calculation meh?

Posted by 3iii > 2018-08-25 10:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 10:52 | Report Abuse

IF U HOLD RM 700K....500% GAIN....MEANS RM 3.5M PROFIT NOW IT IS RM 4.2M TOTAL SHARE & CASH PORTFOLIO LOH....!!

IF 500% RETURN BASED ON RM 700K....VERY UNLIKELY LOH...!!

ANYHOW VERY REMOTE CHANCE LOH.....!!

Posted by Koon Bee > Aug 25, 2018 10:48 AM | Report Abuse

My understanding of 500% in 2017 is based on the gain from 1/1/2017 - 31/12/2017 against total capital on 1/1/2017. Got any other type of calculation meh?

Posted by Koon Bee > 2018-08-25 10:53 | Report Abuse

I dont have any doubt for Jon statement in 2016 with 100% because myself had achieve above 150% p.a in 2015, 2016 and 2017. Just very interesting of how TTT can achieve 500% in 2017.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 10:57 | Report Abuse

Posted by Koon Bee > Aug 25, 2018 10:53 AM | Report Abuse

I dont have any doubt for Jon statement in 2016 with 100% because myself had achieve above 150% p.a in 2015, 2016 and 2017. Just very interesting of how TTT can achieve 500% in 2017.

RAIDER ASK;

CAN U ELABORATE HOW & WHAT U USED TO CALCULATE RETURN FOR 2O15, 2016 AND 2017 LEH ???

Posted by 3iii > 2018-08-25 10:57 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by windcloud > 2018-08-25 10:57 | Report Abuse

There are certain points i like it as might be i has certain trading way similar to his friend.

In year 2017 towards early of 2018 this was really best opportunity to earn the max during your lifetime especially in call warrants. Call warrants really boosted the return. Certain people even earned more than 500%, having 1500 to 2000% return. If not wrong ... lot of cw give u return of few hundred % in very short period. For non cw one ... i also traded huaan hibiscus hengyuan petron just to name a few .... the return also good but not like CW.

But CW in bull market is for you to earn the max .... when go to slowdown market ... buying prospect companies will be better and to trade less in CW. Trade is to trade in safer way and to earn max without burning down your capital. 2017 is for you to earn max in warrants .... 2018 is to earn in safer way with capital protection first.

Just nonsense sharing.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 11:00 | Report Abuse

THIS RAIDER AGREE MAKING 1000% ON 1 STOCK PA...IS RARE BUT POSSIBLE LOH.....BUT HOW MUCH OF UR MONIES IN THESE STOCK ABSOLUTE & % LEH...!!

Posted by windcloud > Aug 25, 2018 10:57 AM | Report Abuse

There are certain points i like it as might be i has certain trading way similar to his friend.

In year 2017 towards early of 2018 this was really best opportunity to earn the max during your lifetime especially in call warrants. Call warrants really boosted the return. Certain people even earned more than 500%, having 1500 to 2000% return. If not wrong ... lot of cw give u return of few hundred % in very short period. For non cw one ... i also traded huaan hibiscus hengyuan petron just to name a few .... the return also good but not like CW.

But CW in bull market is for you to earn the max .... when go to slowdown market ... buying prospect companies will be better and to trade less in CW. Trade is to trade in safer way and to earn max without burning down your capital. 2017 is for you to earn max in warrants .... 2018 is to earn in safer way with capital protection first.

Just nonsense sharing.

Posted by Patron > 2018-08-25 11:03 | Report Abuse

ROI is nonsense. tell me more about your 10 years average risk adjusted ROI.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 11:04 | Report Abuse

THIS 3iii TALKING COCK LOH....IF U R GOOD THEN USE LAH MARGIN MAH...WHY TALK LIKE A PONDAN LEH ??

IF U CAN MAKE IT IN CASH....THERE IS A VERY HIGH CHANCE U SHOULD MAKE IT IN MARGIN TOO MAH....!!

BTW MARGIN IS 5% PA LOH....!!

Posted by 3iii > Aug 25, 2018 10:57 AM | Report Abuse

For both the traders/investors of Jon on the question of using margin.

The instrument is available. So how should they decide to use or not to use, and also how much to use?

A simple rule guide my investing. In the face of uncertainty, I make my decision not based on probability but based on the consequences of the outcome.

In other words, what would be the outcome to them should they use margin and the transaction turned out to be otherwise and not as they predicted. If the consequence is mild, they are alright. If the consequence is going to be dire, perhaps, this should be avoided.

On the other hand, if you are a good investor, you do not need to use margin as you are already cash rich. Of course, you have to be happy to say you have ENOUGH.

Yet, if you are a lousy investor, you have an added reason to avoid margin altogether.

Posted by windcloud > 2018-08-25 11:04 | Report Abuse

I mean cw ..... cant remember ... lot of cw gives you few hundred % return ... like petron hengyuan hibiscus tnb maybank drbhcom fgv ambank alliance bank pbb just to name a few for cw .... even 1000% also got if price u brought only few cents ...

Posted by windcloud > 2018-08-25 11:07 | Report Abuse

Only cash account can buy CW ..... dont want talk further ... sayonara .... just nonsense sharing .... ignore me ...

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 11:12 | Report Abuse

I REMEMBER I BRING RM 1K TO GENTING & END UP WITH RM 11K TAKE HOME ALSO MAH......!!
BUT GAMBLING IS BASED ON LUCK MAH....LONG RUN NOT SUSTAINABLE LOH....!!
SAMELAH....CW...THE HOUSE OR THE BANKS ALSO RIGGED IT BCOS TO GAMBLE WITH U MAH....!!

SAMELAH....RAIDER GAMBLE WITH GENTING THE HOUSE MAH...!!

SO GAMBLING PROFIT IS FOR FUN & PLAY PLAY ONLY MAH....!!

NO MARGIN OF SAFETY...NO SERIOUS INVESTMENT LOH....!!

Posted by windcloud > Aug 25, 2018 11:04 AM | Report Abuse

I mean cw ..... cant remember ... lot of cw gives you few hundred % return ... like petron hengyuan hibiscus tnb maybank drbhcom fgv ambank alliance bank pbb just to name a few for cw .... even 1000% also got if price u brought only few cents ...

Posted by windcloud > 2018-08-25 11:15 | Report Abuse

Gambling also can base on probability to win. I used probability to play 大小 轮盘。As long you not greedy and the you bet on those higher probability, chance of winning still have few.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 11:17 | Report Abuse

GAMBLING IS ALWAYS NEGATIVE PROBABILITY OR EXPECTED VALUE LOH....THE HOUSE OR GENTING ALREADY MATHEMATICALLY COMPUTED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER U LOH....!!

U NEED TO DEPEND ON LUCK TO BEAT THE ODDS LOH....!!

Posted by windcloud > Aug 25, 2018 11:15 AM | Report Abuse

Gambling also can base on probability to win. I used probability to play 大小 轮盘。As long you not greedy and the you bet on those higher probability, chance of winning still have few.

Posted by windcloud > 2018-08-25 11:20 | Report Abuse

Ok agreed in long time play ... haha not argue on this ..... gambling not good.

Posted by stockraider > 2018-08-25 11:23 | Report Abuse

LIKEWISE IN INVESTMENT IN STOCKMKT....U MUST MATHEMATICALLY COMPUTE UR POSITIVE EXPECTED VALUE, TO MAKE SURE U HAVE AN ADVANTAGE AGAINST THE MKT MAH.......T

THIS THERE CALL MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH....!!

WITH BIG ODDS IN YOUR FAVOR....THE CHANCES OF FAILING IS LESSER LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > Aug 25, 2018 11:17 AM | Report Abuse X

GAMBLING IS ALWAYS NEGATIVE PROBABILITY OR EXPECTED VALUE LOH....THE HOUSE OR GENTING ALREADY MATHEMATICALLY COMPUTED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER U LOH....!!

U NEED TO DEPEND ON LUCK TO BEAT THE ODDS LOH....!!

Posted by windcloud > Aug 25, 2018 11:15 AM | Report Abuse

Gambling also can base on probability to win. I used probability to play 大小 轮盘。As long you not greedy and the you bet on those higher probability, chance of winning still have few.

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:25 | Report Abuse

Ah Jon, when open subscription? I no need 500%...im a very reasonable person... 50% can d.. Kiki

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-25 11:35 | Report Abuse

I notice alot here try to calculate out he got the 500%.

Heres the thing. He did not keep track.

I just looked at the deposits, realize gains and portfolio size today. And he definitely had 750k at the end, and put less than 100k in total.

Now, naturally, he may have push the figures abit higher. But I dont see a point in finding the exact figure, when out performance is so obvious.

We tend to speak a little before the big trades, and he definitely whack alot ekovest early of the year and sold near top, hengyuan near bottom sold at 9, muda 1.75 buy, sold at 2.1 before result and limit down, penta, 2.3, sold at 3.1. Mi equipment, 1.7, sold at 2.1.

In terms of his reads, he's really damn bloody good. I wish I was as good, or that I could find it within myself to follow.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-25 11:41 | Report Abuse

Alex and CharlesT,

Yes, I charge 5k, if you want my research in a Rcecap.

I said time and time again. Why should I give out free picks? I like my picks, and as a long term buyer of stocks, I prefer a lower price.

Why should I raise my cost by trying to get people to buy?

I particularly like rcecap. So I will charge alot for that Company. If you're not my investor, or we aren't friends and I didn't discuss my position with you.

A friend has more than 250k in that, and built the position at less than rm1.3 after I explained to him. You tell me worth it boh? Even my cost also not that low.

Otb makes alot more than 5k. I am certain he makes at around 1.5 to 2mil a year from fees.

If I didn't charge 5k, that would be logically inconsistent.

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:42 | Report Abuse

Its either he is damn good in trading or damn lousy in bullshits

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-25 11:42 | Report Abuse

I don't think I can ever hit 500% in a year. I really dont know how to do it.

Maybe if I buy options at certain times when black Swan events happen, and I time correctly.

But really when I saw, I really dumbfounded.

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:43 | Report Abuse

U will certainly make more in yr rm5k fee than yr trading or investing if people buy yr story...like Harry

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-25 11:43 | Report Abuse

Risk is not volatility.

Risk adjusted for me means retard adjusted.


===
Patron ROI is nonsense. tell me more about your 10 years average risk adjusted ROI.
25/08/2018 11:03

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:44 | Report Abuse

A newbie with few years experience dare to charge rm5k....otb better retire lah

Posted by Annetan > 2018-08-25 11:45 | Report Abuse

If you are lucky and had guts,it's not impossible to get huge return even in 2018.one eg is mrcb-c32.It hit at .045 and went to as high as .175 if not higher.You definitely can buy lots then.Unfortunately,I chicken out too early!

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:45 | Report Abuse

Even he cant show much result....

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:45 | Report Abuse

So Alex should proceed with otb sifu... 1k only kiki

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:46 | Report Abuse

Whereas otb has to repeat his 5 years result here again n again n only ask for rm1k

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:46 | Report Abuse

Ah Jon, can publish ur track record? How many success stories under ur belt?

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:46 | Report Abuse

So far only one year result in 2017 (less than 20%??)

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:48 | Report Abuse

Nowadays young chaps really got guts...cpteh learn something lah

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:48 | Report Abuse

Don't worry... Free market will decide the price... Kiki... Ah Jon ask for 5k and he justifies that with his subscriber relative earning.... OK la.... Alex capital only 100k...talk what? Balik kampung tanam jaunt la... Capital so small want learn ppl hoot stock market?

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:49 | Report Abuse

BTW... I take this chance to thank otb sifu, probability sifu, stockraider sifu, rchi sifu for helping me in 2017, all free of charge. Alex will not forget those ppl who helped him

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:49 | Report Abuse

As long as can get 4 to 5 waterfish also not bad for jon lah

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-08-25 11:50 | Report Abuse

The thing I really learnt from him,

Was how he knew so clearly he was gambling not investing.

I mean, he was willing to miss out on the big money for the easy money.

He was willing to sell on the way up, and not feel bad, if he should have kept it and sell at top.

Very very interesting.

Most traders probably lose money until siao to people like him.

I play poker, and well, it's skill based gambling. Hahaha.

In the end, trading is speculating intelligently where the price will be. And well, its definitely very different from investing.

I was wondering if I should open a trade account to practice. But aih, fuck it, looking at chart damn sien, just focus 100% in investing. Much easier and more interesting.


=====
Ayoyo Thanks Jon for the inspiring article.... Contrary to what most people think, there are successful traders around.. And their success is much less about technical capabilities than it is about having a plan and sticking steadfastly to it...

I trade for a living and have been very profitable and I can vouch that making 100% returns pa is not far fetched if you know what you are doing... Unless a speculator has the conviction of milking the wave for months ahead by holding positions, , traders seldom get the multi baggers because trading short term is essentially, taking food off the shark's mouth... Take too large a position and the syndicates have a repertoire of tricks to rattle and roll your emotions in the short term (you can only trade very largely during a bull run)

But To compensate for modest position sizing and returns per trade, you have the peace of mind of holding minimal positions and are usually, high in cash..

Of the recent 4 years, this year had been the poorest record for me..even then, it's at Around 80% returns so far, with 80% cash holdings .. I had an exceptional return last month but a very modest profit or even a small loss this month... Earnings season is bad for trading from my experience..

However, I don't regard trading as gambling... Gambling is where the result depended entirely on chance and cannot be replicated with a any degree of consistency.. Trading is just like any business, you buy a product for resale... Some of your stocks will sell well, some won't (and you lose some money)... Your acumen is in selecting and peddling the right products which in your opinion will be resale-able to your customers for a profit... That is the fundamental of all business

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:52 | Report Abuse

Onething i like yr mkting skill...much better than cpteh

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:55 | Report Abuse

If pay 5k with guaranteed return then I on. If I din get my investment back, I need a clause to have my 5k refunded. Kiki..

For someone with 100k capital... 5k upfront already eat you 5% before the game starts?

Yes ah Jon you should open trading account and play. Investing and trading are two diff dimensions. Since you play poker, you should know probabilistic betting, and you know kelly also. Just do it la. Apa takut?

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:55 | Report Abuse

500% return in a year is certainly much more attractive than mkt crash n cut loss

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 11:56 | Report Abuse

Anyway wishing u every success in yr biz....hopefully u can b Harry 2

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:57 | Report Abuse

Ah Charles.. This one gooding than jjptr... Hehe... Jjptr at most 20% per month only

Posted by Alex™ > 2018-08-25 11:57 | Report Abuse

Siapa Harry?

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 12:00 | Report Abuse

Harry teachs abt share investing n he make more fm teaching investment

Posted by CharlesT > 2018-08-25 12:02 | Report Abuse

He spent only ard 2 to 3 years taking abt share investment n is now one of the famous sifu conducting many courses a year