Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-06-16 10:25 | Report Abuse

"He called me little boy, he said I failed my mathematics."
Dear gambler, have you written to RHB Bank's Board of Directors, its CFO, external auditor and i3investor to inform them that their calculation of RHB Bank's dividend yield is seriously flawed. Only your calculation is correct. If you haven't, then I stand by my comment about you.

Posted by i3gambler > 2024-06-16 10:48 | Report Abuse

Or he is just a small kid that bought Maybank share with the monthly allowance from his parent?

Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-06-16 11:22 | Report Abuse

@i3gambler, don't waste your time putting up anymore comments here. You should immediately write to RHB Bank's Board of Directors, its CFO, external auditor and i3investor to inform them that their calculation of RHB Bank's dividend yield is seriously flawed and only your calculation is correct. Then come back to inform us of their replies. Thank you.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 12:11 | Report Abuse

Seriously though...is there such a thing as 'negative dividends'????? I've noticed that 95% of Malaysians and Singaporeans are incapable of admitting they ever get anything wrong in online debates. They just double down, refusing to answer direct questions and moving on to the next point. If, and when, finally cornered, it descends into name calling. What's it in our psyche that makes it impossible to say 'hmmm ok I might have got that point wrong, but I was kinda concerned that it might lead to share dilution, care to share your opinion on that?' ....

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-16 13:12 | Report Abuse

“snowball88
Seriously though...is there such a thing as 'negative dividends'?????...share dilution, care to share your opinion on that?' ....”

Good question. Similarly, how about ‘positive Dividend’?
When Dividend goes ex, the share price drops by the same amount, is it positive or negative??
IMHO, it is just a ‘Zero's exercise, any profit made is declared as Dividend and given out to shareholders with $ deducted from cash flow ‘reserve’.
Dividend Yield (DY) is just a ‘barometer’ indicating Price vs Dividend i.e. fluctuation Price increase or decrease vs a declared fixed Dividend for the period.
For example, if a company gives out a 1 for 1 bonus issue, the share price will be adjusted by half, how will the DY ratio be at that particular moment??
From Wikipedia, “The dividend yield or dividend–price ratio of a share is the dividend per share divided by the price per share. It is also a company's total annual dividend payments divided by its market capitalization, assuming the number of shares is constant. It is often expressed as a percentage”, therefore DY calculation will be adjusted with respect to the right moment ‘the number of Shares is constant’ bear in mind the Shareholders holding shares also increased correspondingly…
So a dilution will be perceived as a ‘negative Dividend Yield’ ??
Happy Trading and TradeAtYourOwnRisk

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-06-16 13:14 | Report Abuse

ya snow

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-06-16 13:14 | Report Abuse

keep buying je rhb

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 15:14 | Report Abuse

@ jeffrey1166 - 'keep buying je rhb' ...ya did that...can't say I don't regret doing that. I'm not a good investor...I switched from Maybank (avg price bought 7.15, sold 8) and dumped all into RHB....kicking myself sometimes..cos now it's RM9.90~ reminds me of a coffee talk I had with my friends...a lot of them say...'if price increase more than 10% I will take and runnn.... then one guy say ...'run where? where you going to run to when that money is sitting there in your account u have to think...run where? usually the new stock u run to can turn out worse'...true lor..unless u are like KWSP or some big funds investor..if you just the normal investor better just keep topping up slow and steady.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 15:27 | Report Abuse

@BLee : just my humble opinion but I think you are also confusing bonus issues with DY. Share options, Bonus issues, Dividends...all these are just different instruments which companies use to reward their shareholders and they all mean different things. Dividends are cash payouts (in cases with DRP it will state dividends with options for DRP, this just means u will get dividends with an 'option' to turn a small percentage of it into reinvested shares).

Bonus issues are where additional shares are given instead of cash. google will tell u the circumstances where companies prefer to use this to reward shareholders instead of cash dividends.

Both of the above + share options will affect the share price to reflect the changes after the exercise.

'For example, if a company gives out a 1 for 1 bonus issue, the share price will be adjusted by half, how will the DY ratio be at that particular moment??'

There will be no dividend ratio because the company did not issue any dividends. Try this simple method to verify my assertion. Google Tesla or Amazon dividend yield, it will say 0. Why? Because these companies have NEVER issued dividends before. They use other ways to reward their investors...share options, bonus issues..ESOS. But all of u will agree that these are TOP 500 companies in the world...so I think u will agree with me they are well run. So are they positive dividends company? No, they are 0 dividends company. Because dividends are not negative or positive, they are just a metric to tell us whether the company has a habit of rewarding it's investors thru cash payouts. Simple as that.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 15:28 | Report Abuse

Don't get me started on share dilution 😂😂😂

Posted by invest8912 > 2024-06-16 15:35 | Report Abuse

Dividend is only one of the criteria in stock selection. Stock with no ESOS, no private placement, no right issue and pay 5-7% dividend can also be a trap. Take BAT as example.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 15:43 | Report Abuse

Very very very very very true. Another example is Taliworks. Every year for the past don't know how many years always give out 0.0165 dividends....DY around 7%...so attractive that it's listed as one of the top dividend stock in Malaysia. But it was paying out in dividends more than it's annual earnings, this meant that dividends were eating into it's cash reserves. That's why finally it cannot tahan and share price start to drop, then now dividends drop to 0.01 every quarter. So dividends is just cash payout....you have to look at other metrics, I agree 100% with invest8912.

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-16 16:47 | Report Abuse

“snowball88
@BLee : just my humble opinion but I think you are also confusing bonus issues with DY. Share options, Bonus issues, Dividends...all these are just different instruments…”

Yes, it is just a different instrument; but NOSH is used in DY calculation. As mentioned earlier, it is just a barometer to compare companies given out Dividend; it is irrelevant for companies that don't. I have purposely changed the question to DY as I personally feel DY is good to compare with FD rate; but unlike to compare Dividend per Share of each stocks as it will be a different yardstick.
In the formula, NOSH changes can affect the DY value quite substantially vs earlier declared Dividend; therefore just to caution also to view any Bonus, Rights, PP and even ESOS issues to take DY as a comparison…just my thoughts.
Happy investing and for sharing purpose only.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 17:14 | Report Abuse

"In the formula, NOSH changes can affect the DY value quite substantially vs earlier declared Dividend; therefore just to caution also to view any Bonus, Rights, PP and even ESOS issues to take DY as a comparison…just my thoughts."

I'm not sure I follow you and I'm leaning towards not agreeing with what you've said. Maybe you give an example to prove your assertion?

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-16 17:18 | Report Abuse

'Yes, it is just a different instrument; but NOSH is used in DY calculation. As mentioned earlier, it is just a barometer to compare companies given out Dividend; it is irrelevant for companies that don't. I have purposely changed the question to DY as I personally feel DY is good to compare with FD rate; but unlike to compare Dividend per Share of each stocks as it will be a different yardstick.'

Your question was 'For example, if a company gives out a 1 for 1 bonus issue, the share price will be adjusted by half, how will the DY ratio be at that particular moment??'

The company didn't give out a dividend that year, so how can you calculate the DY? It doesn't matter if the company has never given out dividends forever or 1 year or 2 years, if in that year it only gave out bonus issues, there is no dividend 'ratio' to be calculated. You have answered your own question, it's irrelevant.

Posted by Thirai Thiraviam > 2024-06-18 09:59 | Report Abuse

@BLee:
> When Dividend goes ex, the share price drops by the same amount, is it positive or negative?? IMHO, it is just a ‘Zero's exercise, any profit made is declared as Dividend and given out to shareholders with $ deducted from cash flow ‘reserve’. Dividend Yield (DY) is just a ‘barometer’ indicating Price vs Dividend, i.e. fluctuation Price increase or decrease vs a declared fixed Dividend for the period.

1) In Malaysia, we are no longer taxed on the dividends we receive, which I consider a good thing. I prefer to have the money in my bank, instead of it being merely reflected as a paper gain in the company’s accounts.

2) Companies that pay dividends tend to be mature companies that probably do not have innovative ideas to invest their excess money. By paying out dividends, they reduce their equity and thus maintain a high return on equity (ROE). ROE measures how effectively a company uses its cash to generate revenue and income.

3) The key number to look at for dividend-paying companies is the payout ratio. For example, RHB's payout ratio is 61% this year, which isn't great but is acceptable. In comparison, HLB and PB have much lower payout ratios.

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-18 13:19 | Report Abuse

“snowball88
….Maybe you give an example to prove your assertion?”

It is a bit difficult to gather live data for DY value before and after any corporate Price/NOSH changes; but can try to illustrate by capturing some examples for the next few market days…
Example: RGT Berhad
Date: 16 June 2024
EPS: RM0.0028, DPS: RM0.018
Capital: 328mil, NOSH: 352mil, DY: 1.94
Source: klsescreener.com

If we look-up at another source: xxxxxwall.st/stocks/my/materials/klse-rgtbhd/rgt-berhad-shares/dividend (website Link deleted due to Fail to submit)

Date: 18 June 2024
Dividend per share: RM0.036, DY: 3.9
Earning per share: RM0.0029

Why the disparity? IMHO, different data has been used at different timing for the calculation. Below statement could be one of the reason:
“Trailing dividend yield gives the dividend percentage paid over a prior period, typically one year. A trailing twelve month dividend yield, denoted as "TTM", includes all dividends paid during the past year in order to calculate the dividend yield.”
Source: Wikipedia
As in the example given, RGT Consolidated 1:3 Ex on the 7 June 2024, the price adjusted from 0.305 to over 0.9.
I believed the DY value also adjusted (or will adjust later due to TTM) accordingly due to the price changes and DPS. If this DY used to compare with others counter DY for investment purposes, it can lead to misjudgement…
Next changes will happen on 25 June 2024, with a 1:5 bonus issue of warrants. I don't think the price will change much as the Adjustment of price will be very minimum for Warrant if any.
I am still learning and above write-up also for my own stocks selection criteria/caution; therefore Happy Trading and TradeAtYourOwnRisk.

“Thirai Thiraviam
@BLee:
> When Dividend…1) In Malaysia, we are no longer taxed on the dividends we receive, which I consider a good thing. I prefer to have the money in my bank, instead of it being merely reflected as a paper gain in the company’s accounts.”

The purpose of investment in other instruments rather than keeping $ in bank is to beat bank interest rate and inflation rate; therefore the discussion on DY..points taken on items 2 and 3.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-18 19:37 | Report Abuse

@BLee,

Not sure I follow what you mean...but I kinda feel that your argument centres around changes to NOSH, so before we go further can you expand a bit on how NOSH affects the dividend yield calculation?

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-18 21:21 | Report Abuse

“snowball88
@BLee,
Not sure I follow what you mean...but I kinda feel that your argument centres around changes to NOSH, so before we go further can you expand a bit on how NOSH affects the dividend yield calculation?”

Dividend Yield (DY) calculation depends on Dividend per share (DPS). If NOSH increased with the same quantum amount $ paid out as Dividend, the DPS will reduce in future Dividend payout. Therefore the highlighted previous statement ‘assuming the number of shares is constant’, implied NOSH is important in DY calculation.
During Bonus issue or Share Consolidation, the declared DPS for the last 12 months used in calculation did not take this increase or decrease NOSH into consideration. The share price will decrease for the Bonus issue, and will increase the DY value during ex. The opposite for Share Consolidation. This DY calculation will cause misleading info for comparison of counters DY vs Bank FD rates. To get a more accurate DY calculation, make sure no increase or decrease NOSH for the last 12 months as indicated above.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-18 22:38 | Report Abuse

Ahhh...now I understand where the confusion comes from....

"Dividend Yield (DY) calculation depends on Dividend per share (DPS). If NOSH increased with the same quantum amount $ paid out as Dividend, the DPS will reduce in future"

Let's assume in 2023, company A has 10000 shares valued at RM1 (market capitalisation is RM10,000), makes RM1000 a year and gives out 100% in 31st Dec (all RM1000 given out) of it's profits in dividends. Dividend yield is DPS (RM0.10) divided by current market price of RM1 per share (google it, and I think this is where your mistake is) giving a dividend yield of 10%. At the same time it conducts a bonus issue of 1:1 (1 share will get 1 bonus share).

On 01 Jan 2024 it's NOSH doubles to 20000, share price falls accordingly to RM0.50 per share. Assuming all the 'quantum' remains the same, it makes the same RM1000 profit, distributes all RM1000....so DPS drops to RM0.05 per share (as you correctly mentioned DPS drops).... but dividend yield which is RM0.05 divided by current market share of RM0.50 means you get the same dividend yield of 10%!!!!!!!!!

"If NOSH increased with the same quantum amount $ paid out as Dividend, the DPS will reduce in future Dividend payout. Therefore the highlighted previous statement ‘assuming the number of shares is constant’, implied NOSH is important in DY calculation." As we can see, not true. DPS is DPS, DY is DY. They are two completely different things and their relationship is not necessarily directly proportional to one another.

"During Bonus issue or Share Consolidation, the declared DPS for the last 12 months used in calculation did not take this increase or decrease NOSH into consideration. The share price will decrease for the Bonus issue, and will increase the DY value during ex. The opposite for Share Consolidation. This DY calculation will cause misleading info for comparison of counters DY vs Bank FD rates. "

As we can see, it will not. Misleading info is only caused by misunderstanding of the ratios, and the calculation of the rations.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-18 22:56 | Report Abuse

To better understand these mechanisms, such as bonus issue, dividends and DRP...it's better not to automatically assume that anything that dilutes our shares is bad. They are just trying to find different ways to reward their investors in a way that's also good for the company. As Thirai Thiraviam said, some investors prefer to 'cash out' their profits, some prefer to leave it with the company for a chance of better growth (these will be those that invest in Tesla and Amazon). Some prefer a bit of both...think of RHB's DRP as providing you with more options on your options. They do a dividend payout of 60% (comparable to other banks) yet give you an option to give them a bit more 3-5% to reinvest if you opt for the shares (at a reduced price). Just more choices.

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-18 23:39 | Report Abuse

“snowball88
Ahhh...now I understand where the confusion comes from....”

You are absolutely correct in an ideal calculation. Only problem is the RM0.05 DPS declared 12 months later; and the current calculation on corporate activity using past DPS figures. In your example given, the DY calculated after Bonus Ex will be RM0.1 divided by Rm0.5 equal to 20% (assume post Dividend payout recovered back to RM0.5). For someone looking up a few counters to compare DY %, it will be a misjudge. Therefore the “A trailing twelve month dividend yield, denoted as "TTM", includes all dividends paid during the past year in order to calculate the dividend yield” and any corporate exercise must be considered for the comparison…

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-19 00:56 | Report Abuse

Yes bonus shares issued 01 Jan 2024, share price drop to RM0.5 after issue, Total dividends paid out for 01 Jan - 31 Dec 2024 is RM1000 (12 months profit of RM1000 distributed to 20000 shares), all clearly stated in my example, DPS for 2024 is 0.05, NOT 0.1. Therefore DY is still 10%. You need for the formula for calculating DPS also??

Posted by Value Investor Coo1eo > 2024-06-19 07:40 | Report Abuse

can't believe people are still talking about this DY nonsense!

Posted by i3gambler > 2024-06-19 09:43 | Report Abuse

If you understand and have confidence in that company, DY is not important at all.
But to people like the person who called me little boy and said I failed my Mathematics,
He pay much attention to DY, end up his investment in RHB is much more than his Maybank.
He would have made more money if he has invested equal amount in RHB and Maybank.

I view DRIP negatively.
1) If the company want to pay out 31.5 sen, let pay 31.5 sen Cash, no need to pay 30 sen Cash + 10 sen DRIP. DRIP serve no purpose except it is painting a fake picture of high DY.
2) DRIP come with a significant cost to the very small investors, stamp duty, service charge and odd lot etc.

For my own case, I own 100,000 units RHB before this round of dividend. I do not like odd lot, so I opted only 2,000 units, which make my DRIP take up rate of 97.6%, but it is still much higher than the average ~85% take up rate, the RM15.00 stamp duty and service charge by BoardRoom is very minimal for my 2,000 units DRIP, but for the very small investor, the cost of RM15 is big in term of percentage, better off to opt for Cash.

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-19 10:06 | Report Abuse

“Value Investor Coo1eo >
can't believe people are still talking about this DY nonsense!”

Haha, talk about $ ma, how to beat bank interest rate and inflation..!!

“snowball88 > Yes bonus shares issued 01 Jan 2024, share price drop to RM0.5 after issue, Total dividends paid out for 01 Jan - 31 Dec 2024 is RM1000 (12 months profit of RM1000 distributed to 20000 shares), all clearly stated in my example…”

As mentioned earlier, you are absolutely correct for calculation after 31 Dec 2024. What data to use in between for DY (TTM) calculation?

Time is an essence for interest and DY calculation; therefore trailing twelve months (TTM) is needed for any comparison. In your example, the extra Bonus 10000 is not entitled for DY calculation until after the next Dividend declaration which in your example after 31 Dec 2024.
No offense intended and just an example; if you intend to have a baby tonight and do it, it is a miracle tonight you get the baby, you still need to wait 9 months later..same as $ put in Bank, you have to wait for maturity to calculate actual DY. Happy discussion.

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-19 13:22 | Report Abuse

Before we go further down the never-ending rabbit hole, can you clear this up for me first?

1. "You are absolutely correct in an ideal calculation. Only problem is the RM0.05 DPS declared 12 months later; and the current calculation on corporate activity using past DPS figures. In your example given, the DY calculated after Bonus Ex will be RM0.1 divided by Rm0.5 equal to 20% (assume post Dividend payout recovered back to RM0.5)."

How did you get to the 20% DY??

2. "As mentioned earlier, you are absolutely correct for calculation after 31 Dec 2024. What data to use in between for DY (TTM) calculation?"

When you say 'data to use in between for DY(TTM) calculation, can u specify the timeframe...did you mean like from 01 jan 2025 to 31 dec 2025? or something else?

Thanks.

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-19 15:39 | Report Abuse

“snowball88 > Before we go further down the never-ending rabbit hole, can you clear this up for me first?..How did you get to the 20% DY??...can u specify the timeframe..”

Very simple, as in your example, we already have RM10k invested at RM1 having paid RM0.1 Dividend. Before the next Dividend announcement, the price dropped to RM0.5 due to Bonus issue 1:1. The Bonus issue is NOT entitled for the Dividend of RM0.1 paid; NOT entitled for DY (TTM) calculation the day after ex-bonus. As shown previously for RGT DY calculation from 2 different websites, there is disparity for DY calculated. I am just trying to figure out how this disparity will affect investment decisions vs FD rates..
To answer both your questions, DY was calculated initially at RM1 of 10% and this adjusted to 20% assuming price half ignoring ‘the fresh Bonus fund’. ‘The fresh Bonus fund’ will normalize upon the next Dividend entitlement (your correct calculation); therefore the timeframe is in between ex-bonus to the next Declare Dividend. Hope that answers your question.

Posted by Tehkim1295 > 2024-06-19 15:53 | Report Abuse

another dimension is to look at the broader underlyings:

i) earnings yield (inverse of PE ratio)

ii) real ROE ( ROE / PB ratio)

i) should reconcile with ii)

thirdly, the iii) dividend payout ratio %

dividend yield usually = iii) * i) or ii)

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-19 16:07 | Report Abuse

Dividend issued on 31st Dec 2023. Bonus issue on 01 Jan 2024. Dividend issued before bonus issues, so how come u use the price dropped (RM0.50) for calculation of 01 Jan 2023-31 Dec 2023 calculation of dividend yield for 2023??

Posted by snowball88 > 2024-06-19 16:31 | Report Abuse

"Very simple, as in your example, we already have RM10k invested at RM1 having paid RM0.1 Dividend. Before the next Dividend announcement, the price dropped to RM0.5 due to Bonus issue 1:1. "

You have changed the parameters of my example... I already stated dividends issued first, then on 01 Jan 2024 executed a bonus issue. You changed it to bonus issue first, then dividends. And even if u did that, the DY will still be 10%, because the new Dividends per share will be RM0.05 divided by the new price of RM0.50. Not so simple indeed.

Posted by BLee > 2024-06-19 20:51 | Report Abuse

“snowball88 > Very simple, as in your..You have changed the parameters of my example... I already stated dividends issued first, then on 01 Jan 2024 executed a bonus issue. You changed it to bonus issue first, then dividends..”

LOL, I didn't change anything. It is convention to calculate ‘Trailing Twelve Month (TTM) Dividend’, cast in stone, Bonus issue or any corporate issues sandwiched between two Dividends declaration. The first one DID NOT include in the corporate changes consideration (different NOSH) DY calculation, the second declaration will be catered in the Trailing Twelve Months calculation (combined NOSH). The forward Dividend could be Zero, the DY then could be Zero; NOT 10% or 20%..

Posted by stkoay > 2024-06-26 22:09 | Report Abuse

PETALING JAYA: Earnings for the banking sector in the first quarter of 2024 (1Q24) have come in broadly in line with analysts’ expectations.

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2024/06/26/banks-1q-earnings-in-line-with-expectations

Posted by stkoay > 2024-06-27 22:26 | Report Abuse

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/717079

KUALA LUMPUR (June 27): Kenanga Research maintained an "overweight" stance on Malaysia's banking sector, which remains resilient in the face of a complex economic landscape, bolstered by strategic risk management and a focus on high-quality assets.

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-06-27 22:55 | Report Abuse

i have add on

Posted by derricksyl > 2024-06-28 07:28 | Report Abuse

Maintain pay out dividend 40sen per year ..... steady bom pi pi ...

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-06-28 18:27 | Report Abuse

yaya

Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-07-01 10:45 | Report Abuse

More than 10 weeks have elapsed since RHB Bank traded ex dividend on the 18 April and its price has just clawed up by a meagre 5 sen. It took Maybank only one week to claw up to the level a day prior it traded ex dividend. RHB Bank is like an elderly man now.

Posted by stkoay > 2024-07-01 12:55 | Report Abuse

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/717380

Posted by Daily88 > 2024-07-04 16:35 | Report Abuse

MBB ALREADY RM10, RHBB STILL 5.50. UP 2C COME DOWN 2 CENT. HOW TO GO UP?

Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-07-04 20:51 | Report Abuse

Just a year ago, RHB Bank was slightly higher than CIMB Bank. Today it is RM1.50 lower and the gap appears to be widening.

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-07-04 23:03 | Report Abuse

coming can fly

Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-07-05 09:10 | Report Abuse

Can't fly because nobody wants to have a second look at this old ugly woman.

Posted by stkoay > 2024-07-05 12:59 | Report Abuse

On April 19th, when most markets were in deep red due to Israel/Iran conflict, EPF supported MBB at 9.70 (thus making the trade looked artificial) and RHB was trading about 5.49.
Now, MBB is up about 36 sen since then, this one stays around the same level.

Posted by stkoay > 2024-07-05 12:59 | Report Abuse

CIMB closed at 6.56 that day.

Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-07-05 17:05 | Report Abuse

Perhaps EPF has to pare down its shareholdings in RHB Bank from around 40% to 30%. If parties interested in RHB Bank could become substantial shareholders and hence more say, it would be more attractive to them.

Posted by prudentinvestor > 2024-07-08 12:01 | Report Abuse

RHB Bank has degenerated into a very boring counter for at least a year. Perhaps it should increase its interim dividend to 20 sen a share next month to wake it up.

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-07-08 14:08 | Report Abuse

ya coming will up

Posted by jeffrey1166 > 2024-07-08 14:08 | Report Abuse

div yield

Posted by NickelLee > 2024-07-09 08:31 |

Post removed.Why?