Posted by leno > 2015-01-06 20:57 | Report Abuse

told u cancel alredi .. common sense lar !

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-06 21:33 | Report Abuse

Dun bet on Bursa... oil prices will be down...down and down well below USD 40/ barrel soon.. Let quit Bursa and goto China HK market...They are bull run at the 1st cycles on BULL Chip... kikikikikikiki

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-06 21:35 | Report Abuse

Azmi, pls read carefully the announcement of INSAS in Bursa last year October for detail... All the info was there...for the fund raising exercise...

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-06 22:09 | Report Abuse

Too many panic investors. Don't keep looking at the share price of Insas. Expand your horizon and you will notice broad market is coming off. If one believe in the stock, you buy. If one don't believe in the stock either sell if you own it or stay away from this stock. Yes, share price drop despite being a good fundamental company. Yes, share price drop despite share buy back. Then it's too bad!

If you still believe buy more. If you don't believe stay away or sell. I'm the believer. I'm the buyer. Stay calm Don't be Easily Influence whichever side you choose.

Posted by AzmiMerican > 2015-01-06 22:13 | Report Abuse

Cfoong

I know the detail

I was responding to your post that said all rps and warrants holders will convert to the mother share, get it??



AzmiMerican cfoong, u are saying Insas ibu price 1.10

yet, 1 rps + 1 warrant or 1.00 + 1 warrant.... be smaller than 1.10 to make people covert to ibu??

how likely??

Posted by n00bpelabur > 2015-01-06 22:35 | Report Abuse

RPS if in the prospectus says that cannot convert to mother share. Only warrant. But the RPS get dividend twice in June and December 2015. Also the RPS not entitle to vote and normal dividend that normal share has.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-06 23:27 | Report Abuse

Azmi, u paid 1.00 for the RPS and get 2 free warrant with the conversion prices of 1.00... If the mother shares can hit the prices above RM 1.00; for example 1.10 at the day of the free warrant listing... To be sure, the shareholder will choose to convert it and for those short term kaki, they will cash out the warrant by paying 1.00 each and sold back immediately with the gain of 10% while holding back for the RPS for long term... Therefore, in order to prevent the investor for having immediate gain on the day one of the RPS and free warrant listing... The prices of the parents shall be well below RM 1.00...

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-06 23:34 | Report Abuse

Do hope Insas will cancel the deal! Since it is cash rich... For what it wanna calling for fund raising????

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-07 00:45 | Report Abuse

cfoong... Sounds very wise initially but it wasn't. Sorry to be a bit nasty...

1. You cannot compare warrants with mother share. Warrants is a leveraged securities. Take your scenario for instance, at RM1.10, how much do you think the warrant is worth? Let's just say the most bearish scenario, at 0% premium.. Warrants is worth RM0.10. And because warrants is already free, you have already gain 10%. Why would you want to convert your warrant using RPS? In more logical scenario if at 30% premium of mother share price at RM1.10 then the warrant is worth RM0.33. You make RM0.33 from warrants and continue to ride on mother share but you would rather use RPS to convert to mother share and make RM0.10. Is it even logical? Don't forget warrants has instrinsic value!!

2. Secondly at RM1.10 and assuming 1sen dividend (historical trend) your dividend yield is less than 1%. But holding RPS at your cost of RM1, you will get RM0.04 annually. That's 4% yield. Why the hell you use your RPS to convert the warrant and get less dividend yield? Is it even logical?

3. Thirdly, I repeat the ratio of RPS to warrant is 1:2. So if RPS is shortage compare to warrants if you want to use your RPS to convert your warrants at hand. Do you think if mother share is at RM1.10, your RPS will worth RM1.00 and much lesser?!!! No..

4. You may think Insas fellow is stupid and never think thru your scenario. For the corporate exercise they just want RM1 from you and in return they give you free warrants and 4% interest. But you have 2 warrants and 1 RPS, if you use 1 RPS to convert one warrant they don't have the RM1 from you anymore cause you surrendered the RPS plus one of your warrant. But wait... You still have 1 warrant and the exercise price is RM1. So now they will get back RM1 from you and save on the 4sen dividend!!

5. Lastly, imagine yourself as Dato. Thong's shoes. Would you intentionally surpress the share price because they don't want you to surrender the RPS to the company and suffer from 40% capital loss from their shareholding?!! Is that even logical? I if I am him, I would want my share to go up because I and my related party owned 55% of this company and I don't want to intentionally surpress the share price for the next 5 years (at my loss) just because I don't want people to convert their RPS. And yet, I'm also the RPS holder. And balance minority not happy and may not subscribe and I have to underwritten most of the RPS. Must be some really stupid idea.. Save one but at greater loss to yourself!

Think about it!

They would want the share price to go up and not down.

Posted by AzmiMerican > 2015-01-07 01:07 | Report Abuse

Militia sharp. cfoong stupid.

If mother 1.10... warrant will very likely be at least 0.30, so tak ada benefit u pergi convert something that is worth 1.30 to the share cuma value 1.10.... u faham or not? Get it or not??

Posted by Invest123 > 2015-01-07 01:31 | Report Abuse

Most probably the sellers were mainly foreign investors.

Posted by n00bpelabur > 2015-01-07 05:11 | Report Abuse

Probably. But a lot lately.

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-07 07:01 | Report Abuse

There are no foreign shareholders in the Top 30 as shown in the annual report. That is one. And secondly with market capitalization of just RM500mil, it is just not big enough for foreign investors. All these sellings come from fearful retail.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 07:36 | Report Abuse

Azmi and mililia... remember wht u writing on this forum.. kikikikiki...and do put your bullets into it... dato thong and tan sri vincent tan is abang adik bf... kikikiki... bf insas move up to this range.. it has been scolded by many investor bf... 大智若愚! 大智若愚!

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 07:40 | Report Abuse

Azmi assumption is correct if u buy the warrant af listing but u subscribe it by paying 1.00... for RSP and 2 free warrant.. The picture is totally diff... Azmi.. u r really smart!!! kikikikikikiki...

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 07:44 | Report Abuse

let cash out bf the corporate exercise for RSP cum 2 free warrants due... otherwise 后果自负! u can buy if u thk the gap of 0.77 to 1.00 safety margin is fine bf the exercise due.. kikikikikikiki

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 08:17 | Report Abuse

I m very sure tht insas parent will stay below RM 1.00 af the corporate exercise.. because the warrant is not free...

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 08:32 | Report Abuse

For RSP... it is only 4% for 5 years.. less than EPF 6%... kikikikikikiki... and up on expiry af 5 year, they will give u back the capital only.. u will lose to the inflation and possibly of the capital gain if u invest in others... it is not a good deal also...

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 08:34 | Report Abuse

it will be easy to get better deal by investing in oversea market... Let move up from Bursa temporarily... kikikikikikiki if u have better choices...

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 08:36 | Report Abuse

foreign shares would be held in nominee name so you can't tell.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 08:38 | Report Abuse

so dun buy any shares and put all your money in the EPF then? That is your best advice ?

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 08:39 | Report Abuse

if that is your best advice what are you doing here in this forum ?

Posted by AzmiMerican > 2015-01-07 08:45 | Report Abuse

I know the details and I faham how the RPS and warrant work. Militia knows how they work.

Yang satu satu I tak faham is nama garang MILITIA!!!! tapi bila cakap sopan je.. : )

yang si kuching tu gambar cute tapi bila buat mulut je fak fak fak.. kurang ajar betul.

Posted by kevin5059 > 2015-01-07 08:54 | Report Abuse

I can see cfoong concern. If the mother share stay at RM1.00 day before the warrant start to be traded in the market, the warrant price will be RM0.005 each, not RM0.10. If insas mother share stay below RM1.00 for the next 5 years, then those who subscribe the RO will hang themself.

with no offence, what make you think that insas mother will stay below RM1.00 for the next 5 years? I know that the price will be readjusted after RO. However, if the company is making money, the share price will eventually climb back to >RM1.00. base on anything that you predict it will stay below RM1.00? From the fundamental side, I can see that Insas is making lot of money and it will getting more and more for the next 5 years. Their business is so huge and very diversify. Of course I just guess and no one will know what will happen. But to me, as long as the company is doing good, the share price will eventually follow.

at current price 0.78, we got ~30% of inari amertron, Hohup, OMESTI and SYF. I'm NOT very good in math, but 30% from inari already contribute around 70sen for insas (unrealise profit). So we only pay 0.08sen per share to own part of hohup, omesti, syf, Dome cafe, M&A, Car rental and many other business under Insas. Why not?

Forget about the Right for just a minute, you don have to buy now, you can buy after the right if you think you don want the right (cause if mother price stay below Rm1.00, your RO will worth nothing and no point for your to subscribe). The mother price itself already very cheap and worth to buy, not to mention the right.

One more thing come to my mind, why don Dato Thong privatise insas? since it is so cheap now, why don he just privatise it and buy the whole company at this discounted price. We all don know what's their plan next.

In the stock market, don act like you are god, no one can predict what will happen next, if you think you can predict what will happen next, don waste your time here in i3 forum, you should be very rich by now.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 09:22 | Report Abuse

Kelvin5059... Yes.. i agree with you... buy after the right! this is the correct answer! and sold bf the Right...

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 09:25 | Report Abuse

gweilo, i have been in oversea market since 2003 when bought thro the foreign shares thro Spore.. Malaysian has been allowing to trade foreign shares af tht... Dun be Jaguh Kampung... Let move out from this... U can choose to stay in BURSA... kikikikiki...if this is only your choice! I mean the RSP offerred by Insas is worst than wht the EPF can offer to the people!... Dun try to twist the truth...

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 09:33 | Report Abuse

Not twisting anything. 4% is a decent yield. Better than most safe yielding instruments these days. Why you pee pee on it ? Besides, what is the capital being used for ? To take up inari rights ! This will payback big time for Insas. Stock price will rise, warrants will rise faster and ken use RPS to exercise warrant. That *is* the TRUTH. If you are an Insas INVESTOR and OWNER you will get it. If you are just GAMBLER you will NEVER get it.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 09:45 | Report Abuse

okok great investor mr. gweilo.. if u think 4% annual return is so good.. I hormat yr decision.. sir gweilo...army salute...! kikikikikikiki

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 09:47 | Report Abuse

such craziness. if insas is rm1 day before issue the warrant will be rm.05 each ? HOGWASH ! It will be at least RM.30 and probably more. otherwise iI will sell a million mother and buy a million warrants and save a million ringgit and yet participate fully in any rise of Insas beyond RM1. If that the case EVERYBODY should sell the mother and buy the warrant ! craziness yes craziness.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 10:19 | Report Abuse

ok.. Insas kaki...glad to know all of u here... kikikikikikik... chinese oways said...[ if we not gaduh we wont know each other]... kikikikikikiki... wish all of u a great return in year 2015...

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-07 10:24 | Report Abuse

- Insas warrant will not be RM0.05. That is just too undervalued for a 5 years warrant especially the mother share is at the bottom.
- 4% yield RPS is not fantastic yield but the face value is compensated from the its ability to convert warrants without cash outlay.
- Dato Thong won't privatised Insas for obvious reason. You got to know why a company is listed. It is not all about privatising it when it is undervalued. Keywords - funding!
- Its impossible substantial foreign shareholders in Insas 1) No local institutional in Insas yet. Yes the key word is yet. 2) Look at the size of the shareholdings by size.. if you strip Dato Thong and related parties holding, the balance is only 6-8% which is not possible accounted by foreigners. 3) A proper foreign institutional investors will have their name appear eventhough it is under nominees.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 10:35 | Report Abuse

take an example. mrcb mother sell at 1.12 warrant at 0.16 with conversion price at 2.3 !!!!
compare wif insas sell at 1.0 with conversion price at 1.0 ? no freaking way it be 0.005 !!! IMHO the 2 free warrant worth at least 30 sen each and prolly more. 4% not fantastic but where easily get more with NO risk ? sure can get 6% on gaming stocks but with risk. show me where get substantially more than 4% with no more risk and I'll put a few mio in it.

Posted by Andre Kua > 2015-01-07 10:38 | Report Abuse

No matter how you look at it, the big winner will always be Datuk.

Looking at this price, many would be unwilling to pump more money into Insas. He can offer to eat all the RPS that people not willing to buy. He gets 4% each year, while Insas shareholders only get 1c every year. He also no need worry about price drop as face value maintained. On top of that, he gets free warrants which he would gladly convert if Insas shares really rocket in future.

Investors always remain like ikan bilis, being taken in for a ride.Subscribe also die, no subscribe also die. This is the real game.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 10:39 | Report Abuse

no. need to be pilot fish n ride on the back of the whale.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 10:49 | Report Abuse

rps + warrants actually a way to own insas risk free and oni make money and never lose money if you think about it.

Posted by kevin5059 > 2015-01-07 11:31 | Report Abuse

kevin5059 If mother price close at Rm1.00 or lower day before Warrant start to trade, the LIST price for the Warrant will be RM0.005, then it is up to the market response how much the ppl want to buy and sell and it will float accordingly and normally warrant will be traded at some premium price. I'm talking about the LIST price, not the price after free float.

You don have to be so aggressive when ppl share you the true calculation. I'm fully agree that 0.005 warrant is ridiculous for Insas, but if mother price stay 1.00 or lower, that's the LIST price for their warrants. You can sell all your mother share to buy the warrant, but who is going to sell you their warrants at 0.005?? Got it? ppl will only sell you their warrant with some premium. But the FIRST DAY, LIST price will be 0.005, and it is up to the market to decide at which price they want to trade their warrant, and that will be the START price for the warrant (with premium of course), then the warrants will trade accordingly. LIST price can not guarantee to be the START price for the warrant, that's what I would like to say here. And don forget, there are many warrants traded at Negative premium- example Insas twin brother Inari-WA. No one will know what will happen in stock market, I agree most of your fundamental analysis, but don assume yourself as a God and no harm to learn new thing everyday.

If you don believe me on my Warrant price calculation, look at Inari first WA last year and also most recently CBIP-WA. CBIP-WA LISTed price at 0.005 on the first day, but START price at 0.33 at 9am on the first day. Just my 2 cents.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-01-07 11:34 | Report Abuse

What you say though means the START price is MEANINGLESS. Therefore I don't think you should use it to make negative arguments against the offering. It is like a slight of hand to deceive. Not fair ! You seem to want to say nothing but reason why people should not take up the offering when in fact where can you get a deal that you can only make money and never lose ? Well, this is one.

Posted by kevin5059 > 2015-01-07 11:42 | Report Abuse

Argh, up to you what you want to say. I'm just trying to share how the warrant price going to be calculated and you are trying to argue that I trying to spread the negative comment. I owe more than 200K units of Insas in my account, and I also hope it will goes beyond >1.00, but sometime we need to learn from negative comment and take all the possible consequences into consideration.

Posted by AzmiMerican > 2015-01-07 11:49 | Report Abuse

Kevin

Kalau u cakap value of ibu 1.00 nominal value of warrant when open will be 0.005 then ok la

Tapi u cakap "concerned..." "concerned..." about 0.005... lebih la tu u sendiri cari risau la

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-07 11:51 | Report Abuse

kevin5059 is correct, the ultimate beneficiary should be Dato. Thong. There is doubt about it. But let's get the fact right, none of us in this i3 are as rich as Dato. Thong I presume. Unless you are so rich, you can't do whatever he is doing. But as an investors, we have two choice despite not having as much money. You can choose to be at Dato. Thong side, swim with him or you choose to leave him. We cannot do as much as him but our RM1 is as big as his RM1. If you have holding power and you have the time especially during this time, the winner is for those that chose to swim with Dato. Thong.

I believe many people that are holding to this stock doesn't have holding power or they plow all their money in this stock and when it didn't work, you start to panic, curse and sell. That is not how this game is play... Rule No 1. Understand how this game is play and if you are up to it and think there is safety margin then take the chance.

If Dato. Thong is going to be the winner from this corporate exercise. Swim with him. Don't be scare from short term jittery. If you think he is a con-man, then run away from him.

Also bear in mind, Insas share price is closely related to Inari. And you should know during this period, why Inari share is weak. So its temporary, once the exercise for Inari is done, Inari will re-rate up and what do you think Insas' share will do?

The key to this game is Stay Calm Keep the Faith. That's my 2cent.

Posted by bcllct > 2015-01-07 12:05 | Report Abuse

mililia, You seem to imply that if mother share is trading at above RM1 say at 1.2 then RPS could trade above RM1 ? Is this what u imply? I f so can you explain why.
My thought is that since the RPS is not convertable into mother share it's price will not rise in tandem with mother share. I could not see how RPS can trade above its face value of RM1 other than in the unlikely event that interest rate drop significantly.
thks

Posted by sheep > 2015-01-07 12:07 | Report Abuse

OMG, now we are reading stock 101 from rookies?

Posted by kevin5059 > 2015-01-07 12:10 | Report Abuse

I agree with bcllct, I won't buy any RPS from anyone if it is >1.00. I think the RPS will only trade below Rm1.00. Maybe between 0.90-1.00.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 12:20 | Report Abuse

sometimes when u r into the games, u wont see it clearly.. jus imagine tht u r new for Insas... then u will have much better view on the whole picture... I earn few round of money fr insas last year when it jump fr 0.64 until 1.25... kikikikikikiki

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-07 12:52 | Report Abuse

bcllct: I never imply the RPS will trade more than RM1.00. All I am implying is:-
1. The ability as a conversion currency helps to preserve the value.

2. Secondly, there are more warrants than RPS. If I am original holder of RPS, I pay RM1.00, there is no way I will sell below RM1.00. Might as well I use it to convert my warrant later.
- That said, I may sell below face value if I'm able to liquidate my warrants at HUGE GAIN. That will be likely scenario for this exercise. And that present the opportunity for warrants holder to buy RPS at a discount if they want.

My point is if this exercise continues... You give your RM1.00 for the RPS (trade anything between 95sen to RM1 based on above arguments), you get 2 warrants and no adjustment on mother share and at the end of the day, the sum of all parts, you will make GOOD MONEY! From where, you are going to make good money? Most probably from the warrants and the capital appreciation from mother share.

But there is also a reason why Inari rights issue go ahead first before Insas. I am a strong believer, before this corporate will go ahead, Insas will go up to RM1.00 and above, most likely above RM1.00. Why? Because management would want the warrants to be already IN THE MONEY before the corporate exercise, so that people will be more than happy to subscribe to the RPS.

In a normal cash call, normally the rights share is given at a substantial discount as a reward to shareholders or to entice people to subscribe. In this case, the only "enticement" comes from making the warrants to be IN THE MONEY FIRST! Think about it. Even at RM1.00 is not good enough...

That said, if it didn't go up more than RM1.00.. that itself is decent enough. Dato. Thong are in the same boat at the end of the day.

That's my 2 cent.

Posted by beso > 2015-01-07 12:58 | Report Abuse

1st session up 2nd session down

Posted by kc888 > 2015-01-07 13:13 | Report Abuse

Hi Mililia, can c that u r genuine investor for this counter...mind to share us ur average price? Thanks.

Posted by kevin5059 > 2015-01-07 13:20 | Report Abuse

Mililia,

"You give your RM1.00 for the RPS (trade anything between 95sen to RM1 based on above arguments), you get 2 warrants and no adjustment on mother share and at the end of the day, the sum of all parts, you will make GOOD MONEY!"

I'm not sure am i interpreted you meaning correctly. Are you saying that if we subscribe the Right issue, there is no adjustment on mother share price? If that's what you meant, I think that is wrong. The Mother share price will be adjusted because we need to consider the two warrants that set at Rm1.00 exercise price. So the Mother share price will be readjusted on the Ex-date accordingly. We will not gain anything pre or post Right.

Posted by cfoong > 2015-01-07 13:42 | Report Abuse

Yes.. totally agree with Kelvin 5059... the mother shares will be adjusted with the free warrants.

Posted by mililia > 2015-01-07 13:59 | Report Abuse

kevin5059 and cfoong: I stand by my statement the mother share will not be adjusted.

In other cash call, the mother share is adjusted because you have RIGHT SHARE. In this case, you don't have RIGHT SHARE. You only have the RIGHT TO RPS. In another word, in other cash call, if lets say it is 1 for 4 rights issue, then from 4 shares originally, now you have 5 shares, then of course there is adjustment. But in this case, there is NO ADDITIONAL SHARE. Then why should you adjust the share price for the mother. What you get is an RPS and it is traded independently!

You don't adjust the share price because of warrants. Just because all the other cash call involves right share + sweetener (ie warrants), doesn't mean the mother share adjustment is due to warrants. Its due to the ADDITIONAL share you receive.