Posted by Probability > 2015-03-07 23:35 | Report Abuse

Guess when inflation takes place..BNM will increase interest rate. And that will push stock prices lower... and thats how you get back the same required return on Stock - relative to other investment which gives earnings that can rise according to inflation (i.e unaffected by inflation).
Hmm...interesting.

Posted by tralala > 2015-03-07 23:41 | Report Abuse

There are other ways to control inflation besides raising rates.... plus cpi shows our inflation is fairly low...

Posted by Horsefield > 2015-03-08 01:08 | Report Abuse

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > Mar 7, 2015 09:44 PM | Report Abuse
You have to see cost of the Insas-PA and dividend separately:
For the dividend of 4% or RM$40 per year for 5 years total is RM200, you cost is RM0.88 right now or you bought initially at RM1 with warrent compensation is the same. We use the lowest price, so we use RM0.725 (those that bought initially) or the total cost is RM725 for RM200 of dividend payments.
But the dividend payments also must be calculated by the time-value of money because of 5% inflation every year, so you are getting back only RM200*0.787=157.4 which is 157.4/5years=RM31.5 per year of today's money value.

But those who buy at RM0.80 or RM0.80+ they are not compensated by the warrant, and Mr. KCCHONGNZ is telling people the return is 9% (he forgot to subtract inflation of 5%), he didn't tell you whether need to pay tax or not on the dividend too?



Valuation of PA is very simple. Unlike many other complicated valuation model, it is very straight forward. Value of PA can be written as the sum of the present values of an annuity (coupon or it also called dividend) and a single cash flow (face value of bond). This is basically discount cash flow method.


Discount Factor 9.0%
Intervals 1 2 3 4 5
FV of Dividend 0.04 0.04 0.04 0.04 0.04
Discount Factor 0.917 0.842 0.772 0.708 0.650
PV of Dividend 0.037 0.034 0.031 0.028 0.026
Sum PV of Dividend 0.156

FV of PA 1.00 at Year 5
PV of PA 0.650
IV of PA 0.806 (0.156 + 0.65)


For simplicity, I take 5 intervals (instead of 10 interval), but the return shouldn't be far away. From above, the return of PA at RM 0.806 is 9%. Most of assets including stock, bond, preference share, properties and REITs are valued by using discount rate in which inflation risk has been considered. If inflation increased, every assets will be affected too, not only INSAS-PA. They are all under equal foot. Hope you understand that and stop accusing people by using wrong fact.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2015-03-08 08:47 | Report Abuse

Posted by Kian Leong Lim > Mar 8, 2015 08:03 AM | Report Abuse

You don't have to tell people loudly you know finance, accounting, or economics to be able to do what you want to do, that is just to think logically for yourself:


Me: I fully agree with you. but unfortunately this sentence of yours above doesn't apply to you. Look what you have been rambling?

That is still not fatal until you simply personal attacking others of bohong, take money, misleading etc. Very sad case of yours.


Yes, in investing, just sound and logical thinking will go a long way too. This guy below also no training in finance. But look at how logical his thinking is compared to yours. It is not correct theoretically, but there is logic in it.



Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > Mar 6, 2015 04:23 PM | Report Abuse

let me show you how to get 10% at 80cents step by step

1. RM1-RM0.8 = RM0.2
2. RM0.04(annual interests)*5(years) = RM 0.2
3. RM 0.2 + RM 0.2 = RM 0.4
4. RM 0.4/5(years) = RM 0.08
5. RM 0.08/80cents = 0.1(10%)

Posted by tralala > 2015-03-08 09:20 | Report Abuse

Kian leong no need argue kcChong js right ur wrong... case closed... keep saying 1.27 ... dunno for what .. 1.27 not even part of the equation

Posted by tralala > 2015-03-08 09:34 | Report Abuse

Ya, please go for good cause u no hope in mathematics.... lol

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2015-03-08 10:09 | Report Abuse

you sifat leong keep arguing for wat? i buy PA at 80cents , now oledi 10% paper gain, u mad bro?

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2015-03-08 10:16 | Report Abuse

you all finance wizard keep talking about wat cagr wat inflation, so complicated for wat?

wat cagr? u use the 4cents to reinvest? how about future cost higher? not include other brokerage fees? maybe the reinvest 4 cents investment go wrong in future? who know?

plain and simple, you will get 40cents gain on top of your 80cents investment in next 5 years, thats it, total 50% gain in 5 years.

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2015-03-08 10:23 | Report Abuse

who know maybe in future, bank negara offer 17% interest rate just like years 1997, who know? u all keep talking about the unknown like you somekind of oracle, nobody know what really going happen in the future, all the complicated calculation is just redundant.

sifat leong, tell me pls, suggest me a better investment than insas-pa at 80cents, pretty please?

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-08 10:34 | Report Abuse

at the moment DEFLATION is what the world is worried about not INFLATION. This is why they are ALL printing money like there is no tomorrow.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-08 11:33 | Report Abuse

HSBC Shocks Clients By Closing All London Gold Vaults!
http://kingworldnews.com/andrew-maguire-smashed-gold-today-hsbc-shocks-clients-closing-london-gold-vaults/

Posted by htloi > 2015-03-08 14:21 | Report Abuse

KC, you did a good job, keep up the good work!

Posted by ks55 > 2015-03-08 16:25 | Report Abuse

Let us see the 'quality' of clown's posting.

Kian Leong Lim Ks55 the anti-steel guy, for your information, we are also invested in ann joo and ssteel, you are not going to influence our mind, the shake-up will be good for the industry. Tong...tong...Chiang....Actually, it is good for the Lion Group as a whole, getting rid of the trouble so they have no chance to repeat their mistakes. Always work for nothing, what for, right! By the way, in my opinion, this is better for Lion Ind, Lion Div, and Lion Resources. The boss probably need to change but you can not change steel factories, somebody else will take over because Malaysia will still need to use steel in the building or real estate industry. I think UMMO also owns some shares in Megasteel, this will not be the end of the world for Megasteel but it is for Lion Corp. The boss should have let the company go long time ago and not drag down the other subsidiaries and himself. See you at other steel counters!
25/02/2015 14:00

Kian Leong Lim 沒想到,真的沒想到,不要有分別心,當你(自己)被人知道你(自己)有多少斤兩(黃金)時, 遊戲已經結束了(原來你指的黃金是你寫的這莫多狗屎)。 作天我有點無聊,有買的股票下跌沒買的股票反而上漲,所以就隨便寫寫! 不過我現在不想浪費我的時間,因為有些公司:(1)腦袋是Tong..tong... Chiang.....Tong..tong... Chiang.....不是4 more days to go.....而是天天Tong..tong... Chiang.....Tong..tong... Chiang......................天天這樣!
(2)脾氣不好難怪生意的世界很小,有做沒做基本面跟退休的公司沒兩樣!
我為什末會說,Mr. KCCHONGNZ的文章很好, 因為
the fundamentals of a company (果=happy or trouble?)=(is under the influence of )因("人在做天在看")+緣("天下沒有白吃的晚餐")。做人的道理跟做股票的道理是一樣的,做人看事情,做事情看人,所以事情PN17不理想,人為因數很重要(關鍵)。

師父法語

△真正的目標不在把事情做好，而是在做事的過程中提升自己。

△不是在業已感果的果上去改，而是感果的境上去改。

△正因為困難才更要去做。

△所謂「隱惡揚善」，以佛法來說，自己的惡要發露，別人的惡要遮蓋。

△境無好壞，一樣是業感。

小心報應{Tong..tong... Chiang.....Tong..tong... Chiang.....
4 more days to go
Tong..tong... Chiang.....Tong..tong... Chiang...................... }
26/02/2015 16:57

Kian Leong Lim KS55, 如果你生氣了,我可以向你道歉! 我知道,看得出,你做股票很厲害,我昨天後來在看FGV而且已經買進一些。我今年上半年只想做FGV,不想做Khee san!現在等等FGV看看能不能夠跌多一點,像去年的MAS一樣的作法! 不知道你的看法是不是又跟我不一樣. 不要生氣,激你一下,你連口水都吐出來了,人有錢也要照顧好自己心臟的健康嗎!
26/02/2015 17:25

Kian Leong Lim 小心! 你自己已經沒有就了, Lion Corp 還有救? 你以後就會知道了, 當你被人知道你有多少斤兩時, 遊戲已經結束了。 這句話是你自己講的,這叫着自作自受。
26/02/2015 18:04

Kian Leong Lim 壞人才可以救壞人:這是天理,你還自己自告奮勇要當第二個壞人,我代表所有投資人像你感謝你的慈悲! 你真的是好有智慧,感謝你對社會的犧牲與奉獻!你好偉大! 你不用小心報應了{Tong..tong... Chiang.....Tong..tong... Chiang.....
4 more days to go
Tong..tong... Chiang.....Tong..tong... Chiang...................... } 因為你是自願的! Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!
26/02/2015 18:12

Kian Leong Lim Lion Corp 的投資人和Lion Corp從來都沒有犯你? 你自己要先了解你自己的所作所為?有因必有果........
26/02/2015 18:16

Kian Leong Lim 這是要送你的:
(1) 因為好壞只有兩個方法：這個社會只有兩種人---壞人(對自己好的人)跟聰明的人(對別人不好的人)。但是，如果你做 “壞人”你就不能夠做“真正聰明”的人，如果你做“聰明的人”你就不會是“真正的好人”(你只是壞人)，所以，不管你是做“壞人或者是做聰明的人”，通通最後都會有煩惱(看到地域)。

(2)你們一定要學會至少三個方法(那第三個方法或佛法)-----因為人一次只能夠做一件事情)-而已。
26/02/2015 18:27

Posted by ks55 > 2015-03-08 16:32 | Report Abuse

And more .......

Kian Leong Lim Lion industry is a good buy at this price (risk taker can buy in small amount every 3 or 4 months) because they still have revenue from Parkson and some other profitable businesses. I am not criticizing but I need to point out that (in my opinion) the management of the company was implementing a wait-and-see attitude for too long until now only they begin to start cleaning (sapu) their house (getting rid of slag or the EI) which is a good thing. They are finally going on the right direction. We knew the steel market condition was really poor but that did not mean that you shouldn't be doing anything at all on your own part. I had not seen them providing any remedies only until now. In my opinion, Mr. Cheng should have taken some right initiatives long time ago on Lion industry. The old time have change, the kind of you-help-me-I- help- you style no longer work anymore. The company should cut ties with any company in the group that were not doing well initially and also people who are good for nothing but can only blame the poor market for everything bad that happens.
08/10/2014 12:38

Kian Leong Lim Despite all the setbacks, this is a good company that still churn out most of the steel sold in Malaysia but we have not seen the Government doing anything to give them the credit for making Malaysia more industrialized. The thing is this: Good People Also Have To Die. Being good is not good enough you still have to try to survive and proper. Let us see more initiatives from the company's part.
08/10/2014 12:51

Kian Leong Lim ks55: They reported their losses on investment on Mega Steel, that is how they account for the losses from holding of shares and uncollected debts from trade creditors. The EI. I suspect you will know very soon whether they are planning for a divorce or not. The marriage is just too expensive for them to live together any more.
09/10/2014 14:53

Posted by wwwcomment > 2015-03-08 16:35 | Report Abuse

Very chim...

Posted by ks55 > 2015-03-08 16:36 | Report Abuse

more and more....and more..............


Kian Leong Lim I promise my master yesterday that I　ｍｕｓｔ　ｎｏｔ　ｃｒｉｔｉｃｉｚｅ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　ａｎｄ　ｓｈｏｕｌｄ　ｃｒｉｔｉｃｉｚｅ　ｍｙｓｅｌｆ．　Ｉ　ｓａｗ　ｙｏｕ　ｉｎ　ｍａｎｙ　ｃｏｕｎｔｅｒｓ　ｔｈａｔ　ａｒｅ　ｖｅｒｙ　ｓｐｅｃｕｌａｔｉｖｅ．　Ｓｏ，　Ｉ know you are a speculator. Those good counters people don't usually have much comment or complaints because they are good counters. Are you always picking bad counters and leaving a lot of your stupid comments. The worst thing you did was you brag about yourself, telling people that you are hero yesterday, because you are always in counters that prices have sunk a lot. How can you be a hero when you are always in counters that have sunk a lot and you are telling people in these counters how smart you are. Are you a Buddha, are you here because you are trying to help other people or are you trying to help yourself, or because you are sinking in this shithole too!
Iａｍ　ｈｅｒｅ　ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　Ｉwant to wait until someone pull a bomb and the price drop to RM0.10 so that I can buy in some more to average out my past losses, you undr.
19/11/2014 11:20

Kian Leong Lim 他就是以為他不會死才是問題所在. 別人都以為他不會死, 這樣是害他讓他更加以為自己不會死,他不了解連菩薩都會死更何況他只是一個人,釋迦摩尼本師再怎末利害都沒有辦法救他自己的族人,我們都是一樣的都只有一個老闆,這個老闆就是天理．我祝那些肯努力的人好運．放下那些金錢越多越好的夢, 好好地去把事情辦好, 天理只會針對事情是否有做對, 不會特別照顧任何人．
20/11/2014 09:50

Kian Leong Lim 你對你自己現實,你才能靠你自己．你就不用去跟別人講道理,你就會不需要別人救你．你去請別人來救你,你是在做一項不可能成功的事．Mission Impossible 不可能任務只有Tom Cruise 在戲裡會做而已? 這個社會(外面)是現實的不是教你做人要對(外面)或別人現實．你也不用去想什末是道理,因為道理只能夠用講的不能夠用想的----現在的道理是古早的現實．你不用想,你只要直接的對你自己(裡面)現實就可以了,你就能夠馬上把這間公司救起來．人一次只能夠做一件事情,這不是偏人的事,不用想所以反而是一件好事---做事情用看的就可以了．拜託你----你就趕快看看你自己---你是要如何的對你自己(裡面)現實---這樣你才會很快的站起來----所有的一切你才可以從新開始----不要把事情留給別人做----你才是大老闆又不是別人----你說對不對!
22/11/2014 13:10

Kian Leong Lim 有一個做生意的事實叫空性-----我靠我的公司去賺別人的錢然後我再來賺我自己公司的錢----經濟不好的時候-------你就會發現-------為什末一間公司會欠別人很多錢但是有好像永遠都不用還回去的樣子------同樣的-------為什末一間公司別人會欠他很多錢但是有好像別人永遠都不用還回給他的樣子．這種方法只是做人高明而已,這種方法不會做事情高明------遇到經濟不景氣---------當然會行不通．
22/11/2014 13:41

Posted by wwwcomment > 2015-03-08 16:36 | Report Abuse

Do we need to be rocket scientists to earn from share market. I am serious. Not try to offend anybody.

Posted by ks55 > 2015-03-08 16:58 | Report Abuse

That was my unpleasant experience with the clown. So, dia ada, gua lari cepat-cepat.
Otherwise no end to such abuse from the engineer from Giat Mara?

Posted by truthseeker1 > 2015-03-08 18:54 | Report Abuse

Why can't they hold warrant longer if Insas is still good? No need to dispose immediately after just listed.

Posted by matakuda > 2015-03-08 19:45 | Report Abuse

Fortunebullz, gambar muka dipampang macam sial. Guna lah gambar hansem seperti Hakim Bao. Hanya sekadar gurauan.. Burung Thong jual wa kerana binatang tersebut ingin membantai Pa & ibu Insas. Dow Jones gelongsor 280 mata Jumaat lepas, pelabur mungkin bertindak gila sebelah pagi besok,, sekaligus membuka peluang kepada yang belum terbeli Insas.

Posted by AyamTua > 2015-03-08 23:12 | Report Abuse

ha ha ha so funny

Posted by imoogi99 > 2015-03-08 23:39 | Report Abuse

Director holding 96mil of warrants and sell only 1.8mil warrant to buy RPS also cannot meh???? Like that difficult to become director....this one cannot, that one cannot....how like that????

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2015-03-09 11:21 | Report Abuse

halo Buddha also preach not to tell lies,not to slander - u said this is junk forum, u will go for good so why still here? pls dun tarnish Buddha's preaching! if Buddha see u Buddha also run away la :(

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-09 11:45 | Report Abuse

yes if people dun like people shud leave not bring sour grapes.

Posted by Ken Lim > 2015-03-09 12:03 | Report Abuse

Actually Mr thong got sell shares at 3/4 March 1800lots then with the same day buy back 3100lots.. Check with announcement .. Maybe can go to 1.50 base on nta 1.83 by time .. U can grab some .. Wait the rainbow belong to U ..

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-09 16:41 | Report Abuse

Just buy Buy BUY !!! You will be happy soon enough.

Posted by Johnnys > 2015-03-09 16:46 | Report Abuse

sell ur wife, son house evrything have value to buy? gweilo you mean all in?

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-09 17:43 | Report Abuse

Get the head in anyway.

Posted by star7 > 2015-03-10 00:17 | Report Abuse

Wah jun kah,nanti tak jun ,mau lari pergi mana,ini ah thong punya counter,not easy to make money loh.

Posted by Tey Tian Foo > 2015-03-10 09:16 | Report Abuse

Current holding on Inari mother share alone worth more than current Insas price already. Insas still have a lot of Inari Warrant, SYF, Ho Hup and its own business, cash on hand etc. Time would tell and the price would get closer to actual value.

Posted by Koay Yi Chuan > 2015-03-10 10:27 | Report Abuse

Insas is Thong's own piggy bank. Not easy to share with others. Slowly wait lah :p

Posted by TonsilBasher > 2015-03-10 12:01 | Report Abuse

when will the warrant expired?

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-10 13:07 | Report Abuse

When it reaches rm5 it will automatically self destruct.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-10 13:28 | Report Abuse

Just keep buying until you are rich. Then sell.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-10 18:17 | Report Abuse

Sounds reasonable to me.

Posted by Jophiel123 > 2015-03-11 08:24 | Report Abuse

@forever, how do you know will hit rm1.6 - 1.7?

Posted by truthseeker1 > 2015-03-11 08:42 | Report Abuse

Posted by Jophiel123 > Mar 11, 2015 08:24 AM | Report Abuse

@forever, how do you know will hit rm1.6 - 1.7?


Tipu you to buy his warrant because Datuk Thong keep disposing his free warrant as posting by logitrader show. If Thong dispose warrant meaning Insas won't go above warrant plus exercise price.

Posted by speakup > 2015-03-11 08:57 | Report Abuse

buying opportunity today

Posted by Jophiel123 > 2015-03-11 09:00 | Report Abuse

@truthseeker

How u judge this stock?

Posted by Andre Kua > 2015-03-11 10:52 | Report Abuse

@truthseeker1 You really need to get your eyes checked... That is the director trading on Insas shares. How did you conclude the WB transaction based on Insas?

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-11 12:14 | Report Abuse

I judge this stock innocent as charged !

Posted by Jophiel123 > 2015-03-11 12:20 | Report Abuse

How u judge

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-11 18:35 | Report Abuse

Value

Posted by kcchongnz > 2015-03-11 18:45 | Report Abuse

Posted by Jophiel123 > Mar 11, 2015 09:00 AM | Report Abuse

@truthseeker

How u judge this stock?


Yeah man, show us how you value this stock, the mother share, preference share or and the warrant? Anyone or all.

Posted by StockKeeper > 2015-03-11 19:28 | Report Abuse

no need judge. this is good stock. faster buy !!! I want sell at above RM 1.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-11 19:28 | Report Abuse

Its all been show here before ad nausea m.

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-11 20:15 | Report Abuse

We are headed for war because there is no truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orOujvNK8bo

Posted by matakuda > 2015-03-11 22:11 | Report Abuse

Yao-shiu. Dia belum mau jalan lagi. Naik 1-2 sen cunggap habis, bab gelincir bukan main cepat.

Posted by yjkl > 2015-03-11 22:25 | Report Abuse

hi, do you know if the cheque for the excess application not allotted should have been sent out already?

Posted by gweilo > 2015-03-12 09:32 | Report Abuse

sent out yesterday i think.