Posted by patrickngoa > 2016-12-09 16:54 | Report Abuse

if above 1.00, then see again

Posted by Tan Toh Fei > 2016-12-09 19:38 | Report Abuse

i just did a quick check for this counter, carry high debts, business performance not consistant, even though NTA is higher, but they can sell the asset to lower down the NTA when having financial difficulty. Buying only based on NTA is not a wise choice. Should assess other aspects.

Posted by air01557 > 2016-12-09 20:11 | Report Abuse

long white candle - technically looks good

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-09 20:17 | Report Abuse

Rubbish loh....the evergreen generate tonnes of cash....and pay down alots of borrowing mah....!!

Evergreen shareholder funds Rm 1.08 billion mah....!!
Also hold Rm 140 million cash loh....!!
Borrowing only Rm 220 million....thus net borrowing only Rm 80 million.

A very low gearing ratio of 8% against shareholders fund mah....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-09 20:29 | Report Abuse

On the otherhand Hevea cashflow depleted from Rm 126 million to rm 109 million...an indication of very adverse financial cashflow of rm 17 million over 9 mths . This mean negative cashflow of Rm 23 million per annum or Rm 0.04 per share loh....!!

A negative cashflow is worse than losses....going forward, raider suspect may not be able to sustain dividend payout...since it is already very bad cashflow for Hevea loh....!!

Very high chance dividend of Hevea will be drastically cut loh...!!

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-13 11:31 | Report Abuse

good one stockraider.. u have smacked those nay-sayers (who speak nonsense without facts) heavily on their faces... you are right, Evergreen's debt is manageable and its balance sheet is healthy... Those who claimed Evergreen is highly indebted have their personal agenda trying to bring down the share price - that is obvious...

Posted by air01557 > 2016-12-13 13:48 | Report Abuse

up up up all the way

Posted by latjiu > 2016-12-13 14:52 | Report Abuse

don't drag down hevea with misleading info to promote your own hidden agenda thank you

Posted by Ultrainvestor > 2016-12-13 17:33 | Report Abuse

Was looking at the transaction during the last 10 mins of the trading session, somebody sold less than 40000 unit at 0.94. Purposely wanna make chart look bad? :P

Posted by karamjitsingh > 2016-12-14 10:46 | Report Abuse

berak stok!

Posted by Jenas Tan > 2016-12-14 22:15 | Report Abuse

shares buyback

Posted by chompks > 2016-12-15 09:18 | Report Abuse

True enough it does follow the trend which is down. Rebound is never going to happen! Better sell and exit.

Posted by lishamw > 2016-12-15 09:49 | Report Abuse

mana ada org beli ni sdah. i agree bro...stock alliance tu curi idea org lain. pastu kena lecur skarang main ni. bad karma lol

Posted by lishamw > 2016-12-15 09:54 | Report Abuse

harga saham jatuh padahal

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 10:22 | Report Abuse

Here are some fact & figure. Check it yourself? Which company u should buy at current economic climate?


Hevea's latest quarter report announced on 22 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 109,790,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 6,947,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 8,164,000
Total debts: 15,111,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = 94,679,000 (*NET CASH POSITION)


Evergreen's latest quarter report announced on 28 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 141,018,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 108,952,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 107,633,000
Total debts: 216,585,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = -75,567,000 (*NET DEBTS POSITION)

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 10:33 | Report Abuse

Hevea Nta Rm 0.86 Share price Rm 1.50

Evergreen NTA Rm 1.35...Dhare price Rm 0.965.

Plus evergreen is the market leader with turnover Rm 1.00 billion v Hevea Rm 0.5 billion mah....!!

Evergreen is twice bigger and thus twice valuable loh...!!
Evergreen is undervalue v Hevea overvalue loh...!!

More compelling to buy market leader mah...!!

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 10:34 | Report Abuse

Which is a better and safer buy? EVERGRN or HEVEA ?

HEVEA at 1.50 share price:
PE 9.6
EPS 0.156
NTA 0.85
Market Cap 756,000,000

EVERGRRN at 0.970 share price:
PE 11
EPS 0.088
NTA 1.35
Market cap 817,000,000

NTA only matters if companies go bankrupt. So in terms of earnings, it seems that HEVEA is earning faster than EVERGRN with a net positive difference of 0.068 (0.156 - 0.088) and PE the lower the better. HEVEA has net cash of RM 94,679,000.00 now and can do whatever it wants immediately. If EVERGRN wants to do something like expansion or running the daily operations, it needs to raise more money from shareholders or borrowings and it has to service it's borrowings loans. Hevea should have higher market cap than EVERGRN based on earnings and business performance. Which do u see better?

Some people say EVERGREEN's debts are manageable? How is it seriously manageable?

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 10:39 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 10:42 | Report Abuse

Also bcos of past record of bankruptcy and fraud b4 of Hevea....u will fear the books could be cook at Hevea side mah....!!

Evergreen good track record & honest management....go FOR PEACE OF MIND LOH...!1

HEVEA IS THE SYMBOL FOR GREEDY & DISHONESTY LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 10:54 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 10:57 | Report Abuse

Here u compare it:

INDIVIDUAL QUARTER 3 MONTHS ENDED (*Just 1 quarter)
EVERGREEN Net profit after taxation: 15,692,000
HEVEA Net profit after taxation: 17,233,000
*HEVEA has RM 1,541,000 more net profit after taxes for "latest quarter"

CUMULATIVE QUARTER 9 MONTHS ENDED (*Just 3 quarters combined)
EVERGREEN Net profit after taxation: 51,691,000
HEVEA Net profit after taxation: 52,662,000
*HEVEA has RM 971,000 more net profit after taxes for that "previous 3 quarters combined".

So in both cases whether individual or cummulative quarters combined, the net profit earnings of HEVEA is still superior than EVERGREEN. How do u label EVERGREEN as a market leader in terms of profitability ROI? "Bigger production facilities" or higher "sales volume" do not mean EVERGREEN has advantage over it's competitor.

stockraider, i prefer u talk about facts and figures and not to mislead people to buy EVERGREEN. So you purchase a stock because you think it is a market leader based on the wrong "FACTOR"? ROI and ROE of EVERGREEN is not better or efficient. What is the benefit for EVERGREEN of having a high turnover if the ROI is lower than the competitor? Is EVERGREEN still a market leader? Higher sales volume is not a good metric to gauge the business performance or more importantly profitability of returns of a particular company.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 11:03 | Report Abuse

HIGH RISK HEVEA MAYBE ANOTHER XINGUAN IN MAKING LOH...!!
HEVEA HAS BANKRUPTCY AND FRAUD RECORD B4.....HIGH CHANCE THEY MAY COOK THEIR BOOKS AGAIN MAH....!!
IF THAT IS THE CASE, NO MATTER HOW GOOD IS THEIR BOOKS ALSO NO USE LOH...!! BCOS THEY CAN ALWAYS COOK THEIR BOOKS LOH...!!

U NEED TO INVEST IN COMPANY WITH GOOD TRACK RECORDS & MANAGEMENT WITH INTEGRITY MAH....!!
EVERGREEN GOT GOOD TRACK RECORD LOH...!!
U GOT PEACE OF MIND LOH....!!

Posted by chompks > 2016-12-15 11:12 | Report Abuse

I see clearly now starperformer thank u. There is difference in share price of trend up and down between evergrn and hevea. it does nt lie lol

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 11:27 | Report Abuse

stockraider, may u explain to me and everyone what kind of "RISK" that u are referring to about HEVEA? I'm especially curious to know whether u are actually an empty bottle or simply buy a stock based on wrong metrics and factors or just because u are stuck in it.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 11:29 | Report Abuse

starperformer, you have not factored in the expansion that Evergreen is undergoing and the improved results will be seen in 2017. Your analysis on current stage is not fair for Evergreen.

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 11:30 | Report Abuse

Please do more homework on Evergreen and you will know that 2017 is a year where Evergreen will turn into a new chapter of life, with much improved revenue as well as profit.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 11:36 | Report Abuse

Hevea profit come from RTA and particle board....this business will be affe
affected by Evergreen lauching its new products....!!
WHEN EVERGREEN FULL BLAST PARTICLE BOARD AND RTA, HEVEA WILL BE AFFECTED ALOT...BCOS EVERGREEN FACILITIES MORE MODERN MAH..!!

"HIGH RISK HEVEA MAYBE ANOTHER XINGUAN IN MAKING LOH...!!
HEVEA HAS BANKRUPTCY AND FRAUD RECORD B4.....HIGH CHANCE THEY MAY COOK THEIR BOOKS AGAIN MAH....!!
IF THAT IS THE CASE, NO MATTER HOW GOOD IS THEIR BOOKS ALSO NO USE LOH...!! BCOS THEY CAN ALWAYS COOK THEIR BOOKS LOH...!!"!

Hevea Rm 0.5 billion turnover....evergreen Rm 1.0 billion turnover..there is an element risk that Hevea may cook their books again mah....!!
DON FORGET THEY HAVE DONE IT B4 LOH....!!
THE BANK GET CHEATED LOH...!!

HEVEA at 1.50 share price:
PE 9.6
EPS 0.156
NTA 0.85
Market Cap 756,000,000

EVERGRRN at 0.970 share price:
PE 11
EPS 0.088
NTA 1.35
Market cap 817,000,000

NOTICE THE MARKET CAP OF HEVEA PLUS WARRANT IS ABOUT THE SAME AS EVERGREEN....BUT EVERGREEN HAVE TURNOVER AND SHAREHOLDER FUNDS MORE THAN TWICE OF HEVEA LOH....!1
THAT MEANS HEVEA OVERVALUE LOH....!!

WHEN INVEST BETTER LOOK AT THE DOWNSIDE 1ST MAH...WARREN BUFFET ADVICE!!

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 11:37 | Report Abuse

as for the debts, Evergreen has over 1billion of equity and the net debt is only around 75million as you mentioned... so that is only about 0.075 of total equity.. is this not healthy and manageable? To me, that is pretty healthy and manageable.. and you are comparing apple to orange. Perhaps you do not understand in detail what business Evergreen is in... I am not saying Hevea is bad. I think it is a healthy company too. But, since MDF production requires much more capex, you can't just compare it with Hevea who mainly produce particleboard and RTA... so it is not a fair comparison to just compare the debt between hevea and evergreen like that... pls be more neutral, although i can spot that you are a diehard hevea supporter.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 11:50 | Report Abuse

Honestly Raider have some Hevea position..it is reasonable company but raider prefer evergreen more bcos it is undervalue, bigger and more global loh....!!

People may consider buying Hevea..But Do not & never never tradeoff Evergreen for Hevea...this is what raider advocates loh..!!

Evergreen is expanding & upgrading its facilities mah....thus temp tradeoff for a lower performance for a longer long term sustainable good performance mah.....!!

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 12:06 | Report Abuse

I have to point out where stockraider intentionally left off previously. You have not explain what "RISKS" that u are referring to HEVEA with accountable common basis. If u simply spell out nonsense without real basis, your argument is not accountable at all. I don't do rumours, gossip or speculation without any proper supporting basis. If that is the case, stockraider is just a half-filled bottle and that explains it all.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 12:28 | Report Abuse

Dolly_chai, compare and evaluate it:

No. of shares in circulation
EVERGRN: 846,423,985 shares
HEVEA: 500,851,890 shares

EVERGRN
-75,567,000(Net debts) / 846,423,985 shares = *Worth approx. RM (-0.089) per share

HEVEA
94,679,000(Net cash) / 500,851,890 shares = *Worth RM (0.189) net cash a piece

This is a hypothesis whereby if these companies are to settle fully their debts resetting their gearing ratio and how much would it cost both EVERGRN and HEVEA? This does not applies to HEVEA because of net cash position. For EVERGRN, it requires shareholders to fork out RM0.089 of own money per share and that translates into another approx. 9% extra of what being paid for at even RM0.89 a piece share price. This is no small amount for substantial shareholders or those holding a considerable amount of EVERGRN shares. This is a losing end and make no good tangible business sense.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 12:32 | Report Abuse

DOLLY ALREADY SAID RM 85 MILLION DEBTS OUT OF RM 1.00 BILLION SHAREHOLDER FUNDS...IS SUP..SUP...SUI LOH...!!

IF LIKE THAT RAIDER CAN ALSO SAY IF EVERGREEN AND HEVEA BOTH LIQUIDATED TODAY.....EVERGREEN WILL GET BACK RM 1.35 AND HEVEA GET BACK RM 0.85 LOH....!!

THE ABOVE ARE JUST HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION FOR DEBTS AND LIQUIDATION...NO NEED TALK SO SERIOUS LIKE AS IF THE COMPANIES GOING TO COLLAPSE MAH...!!

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 12:34 | Report Abuse

Dolly_chai has raised the argument and i complement to that extent.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 12:37 | Report Abuse

stockraider, please be more factual and don't simply mislead people here or hevea. I have presented all facts and figures. Simply speak out what is intangible about a company's business directions or fundamentals are too subjective hence intangible to shareholders' terms. Kindly don't keep repeating your not factually-backed statements everywhere. Thank u!

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 12:40 | Report Abuse

UR FIGURE IS JUST THE PROFIT OF HEVEA BETTER LOH...!!

HOW ABOUT THE SHAREHOLDER FUNDS & NTA OF EVERGREEN MUCH BETTER THAN HEVEA LEH ??

ALSO HEVEA GONE THRU BANKRUPTCY MAH, IT IS A FACT MAH...!!

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 12:57 | Report Abuse

U better study both companies well before u say so. Let's see how do both companies do in months to come so u better don't be a coward again that time. Figures and fundamentals have shown the obvious. Stop ur bad intention in Hevea. Thank u!

Posted by chompks > 2016-12-15 13:21 | Report Abuse

i support starperformer & his fact is obvious. Evergrn is not bad but better reduce & buy more in stable company like Hevea. Don't hate me ok.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 13:42 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by patrickngoa > 2016-12-15 14:55 | Report Abuse

very good information indeed, did u buy already?

Posted by Investor5711 > 2016-12-15 14:56 | Report Abuse

buy now and keep til next year

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 15:03 | Report Abuse

Calm down both Starperformer and Stockraider... There are points taken from each of you but to be fair, this is what I think of:

Starperformer is too biased on Hevea and totally left out the strengths of Evergreen
Stockraider is too biased on Evergreen and totally left out the strengths of Hevea

Both are good shares to me.
Just that you have to decide which share will potentially give you more returns.

For me, Evergreen will likely give more return in one year (by end of 2017) as:
- huge discount to the P/BV
- big expansion plan on-going and will see net profit/eps go up significantly by end 2017

Posted by bleuerouge > 2016-12-15 15:07 | Report Abuse

Agreed with Dolly_Chai, I also hold both and see profit runs up today. Don't put all eggs in one basket...cheers.

Posted by patrickngoa > 2016-12-15 15:10 | Report Abuse

i missed it 0.95 today..stuck with scable

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-15 15:14 | Report Abuse

Dolly,

Raider not biased on Hevea as raider also own hevea, thus raider not biased on Evergreen...just that people come n rundown the wonderful undervalue Evergreen without basis...saying that evergreen going to bankrupt with Rm 85 million...raider don like loh...where get heavy borrowing leh ?

Evergreen huge undervalue mah...thus got huge margin of safety loh...!!

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 15:26 | Report Abuse

raider... i agree that Evergreen has margin of safety based on the low P/BV at 0.704. around 30% of safety margin...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 15:37 | Report Abuse

bingo bleuerouge, both are well-managed companies. Just that we can't compare them directly as it is orange to apple comparison

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 15:37 | Report Abuse

To me, Hevea does not have much growth in their business even though they are also profitable... most investors like "earning growth" so when they see continuous EPS increase, they will buy into that share...

Posted by Dolly_Chai > 2016-12-15 15:38 | Report Abuse

that is why i chose Evergreen over Hevea. Not to say that Hevea is not good.

Posted by Ultrainvestor > 2016-12-15 15:39 | Report Abuse

Good discussion guys, I learned a lot.

Posted by starperformer > 2016-12-15 15:57 | Report Abuse

Dolly_chai, book value is only good for 2 things, that is used to value a stock fair value based on NTA and to use it as leverage in future borrowings from financial institutions. If u are a logical shareholder of EVERGREEN, u wouldn't want the company to increase it's borrowings further using it's current assets. Be sane and calculate with realistic estimation of future earnings of EVERGREEN, that how many future quarterly results are needed to pay back the debts it currently has? Please take into account of the concurrent accrued interests monthly which are needed to be serviced periodically.

EVERGREEN's share price being under 1.00 is considered a penny stock and most people would see it as more actively trade-able with slight leverage. It's dangerous to undermine it's debts to earnings ratio which if the risks of lowered demand for it's MDF segment is below forecast will pose a serious risk to it's over expansion.

You were speaking on margin of safety. That is useful only when the company is heading for a bankruptcy and that is totally out of the question at the moment unless it cannot service it's borrowings further. Have u calculate how much the company is servicing it's borrowing interests monthly?