Posted by tonylim > 2012-11-24 11:34 | Report Abuse

thanks YS. m short term

Posted by jentzen > 2012-11-24 11:40 | Report Abuse

YS, yup still hold knm

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-11-24 12:56 | Report Abuse

jentzen yr knm average price is

Posted by dragonking > 2012-11-24 13:14 | Report Abuse

KNM warrant will most propably go up or KNM mother will drop. The ratio must be back to 5.The former will prevail.

Thumbs up for warrant

When the selling pressure gone, the real price will emerge. See the drop in volume 3 day post-listing and T+3.

Posted by Chung > 2012-11-24 13:51 | Report Abuse

Base on third quarter financial report profit of rm 111 million. This counter trade at 0.48-50 is consider very cheap . Ask yourself a 100++ million profit company share will it drop to 0.40 cent ? Because of knm share trade around 0.48-0.50 cent now the knm warrant trade at range 0.10-0.12 cent and close at 0.11 cent yesterday. I guess is a change to buy knm-warrant now. i predict is by early next year knm will trade around 0.75-85 cent if the subsidary company BORSIG listed in Singapore and final quarter financial out. Why i suggest to buy knm warrant ? Knm closed at 0.48 cent and warrant closed at 0.11 cent. Insteat of buying 1 lot (1000 share) mother share at rm 480 i rather to buy 4.3 lots warrant. If knm share rose from 0.48 cent to 0.78 cent by next early year. By than the warrant may trade around 0.25-0.30 cent. Imagine if i put rm 11000 in bank giving me 3.1% interest after 6 months i only get rm 341 interest. i rather to buy 100 lots (100,000 share) of knm warrant after 6 month if knm warrant trade at 0.25-0.30 cent and i sell at 0.25 cent i get rm 25000 and my profit is rm 14000. What if i keep on hold the warrant until knm mother share to rose to rm 1.50 ? what is warrant trade price ? maybe in range of 0.60-0.75. and i get rm 60000-70000. Remember.....knm share trade at 0.50 now was due to financial lose last year about rm 84 million. I don't supprise knm will pick up slowly. Time to recover all your previous lose in this counter. If you buy 500 lots ( 500,000) share it cost you rm 55000. After 6-12 months if this warrant trade at 0.50 cents. You get rm 250,000 cash..........Remember this counter is making profit now........knm is one of the favor counter for fund manager. This counter not another Zelan or Lioncop which lost hundred million.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-24 15:44 | Report Abuse

Yeah man, profit up till 3rd quarter 111 m, of 12 sen per share and annualized 16 sen. Pe ratio about 3 only, damn cheap man! Or is it? Mr Chung, look at its financial statement carefully. 50.6 m is tax credit. Is that "real" profit. Wait, not finished yet. Made 61 m "real" profit (after less tax credit), but total receivables (including work-in-progress) is 120.8 m, equivalent to more than 9 months of receivables outstanding! Are they real profit or not? Estimation of work-in-progress correct or not? Money owed by others real or not or that is what KNM says people owe them but do the debtors agree or not? And why so much? Really made 111 m? Show me the money! Instead the cash flows from operations is negative at 15 m. 127 m is in increase in receivables which we don't know how much is "real" earnings here. That is why.

Posted by Chung > 2012-11-24 16:12 | Report Abuse

make 61 million consider not bad compared last loses. if we always think of this real or not that one can receiveble or not better don talk about invest in any counter include public bank maybank , IJM ,gamuda. which industries don have project progress work ? are they receiveble ? bank also can not comfirm with you the loan can 100% receiveble them why still got invester buy this counter. All because we willing to take risk at long we invest in share market. if you not agreed with me you can stand a side to see. i did not asked you to buy this counter. maybe you lose million ringgit in this counter cause you hate this counter. How much i can lose with this 0.48 cent counter ?

Posted by Maria Kamaruddin > 2012-11-24 16:17 | Report Abuse

soppose mother share been press to 0.40 cnts,its warrent will fall to 0.06 cnts cost it to high now,lost of 50%..and if you look at the volume ,monday or tuesday will have lots of force selling..chance to jume in.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-24 17:53 | Report Abuse

sigh, good medicine is bitter.

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-11-24 20:43 | Report Abuse

good read. Still ding-dong with the Peterborough project! who said financial close done with the purchase of that tract of land? must be some silly analyst from TA Sec again!

http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/business-news/225584-hot-stock-knm-falls-on-uk-project-uncertainty-.html

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-11-24 21:12 | Report Abuse

knm wun simply announce the project in UK. sure got this thing then announce it.

Posted by Chung > 2012-11-24 23:16 | Report Abuse

certain or uncertainties of the peterborough project does it really cause knm share drop from 0.48 to 0.10 cent ? If today knm share trade rm 4.80 this uncertanties news really can kill investor and i guess next monday this counter may drop 15-20% but not for 0.48 cent share. For the past one week knm share drop 0.02 cent due to market sentiment but it also effect many counter drop Bat drop rm 1.78 ,nestle drop rm4.54, Aeon drop rm1.14 , F&N drop 0.80 cent, digi drop 0.22 cent and many many good counter recomend by the edge analysts to buy and what happen to it now ? drop too...... so you think all this analysts is god......they only know to talk cock and pussy only. Market is down they got reason to talk. market is up they got reason to talk. If Dow down 250 point and klse up they got reason to talk. If Dow up 250 point and klse down they also got reason to talk. I rather believe company announcement rather believe an analysis to predict .............

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-11-24 23:40 | Report Abuse

how about 46 sens? :)

Posted by Ching Yin Carrot Loh > 2012-11-25 00:13 | Report Abuse

Below 40?haha

Posted by Chung > 2012-11-25 00:47 | Report Abuse

no body can confirm with you this counter you buy and it wont drop below your purchase price. if drop 2 cent can cause you no lunch and dinner drop 8 cent can cause you bangkrup you better don touch share. even buy a blue chp counter also can lose money in share market is the matter of what is the risk you can take if you buy share , do you have holding power ? how long you willing to hold ? not because i mention knm mean i asked you to buy. i only think if you buy a counter with profit financial yet it in a cent value counter rather than a ringgit value counter. you wont hurt so much even if the share price drop. because we don know when is the lower to enter when the higher to exit.

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-11-25 01:56 | Report Abuse

obviously! LOL

Posted by PureBULL . > 2012-11-25 02:33 | Report Abuse

Dear traders, do u know why KNM, being the greatest winning stock ever produced in Msia over 2 growing years in 06-07 has crashed n still crashing ??

Do u also think these r Strong points here ?
http://www.bursabulltrader.blogspot.ca/2010/08/jesse-livermore-lessons-from-legendary_23.html

Wonder to ask why Fat Cat Tim Buddy called knm, knm !

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 03:06 | Report Abuse

Ka Ni Ma ( copied from FCTB )or Konek Naik Ma(copied from somewhere can't remember:( )? hehe u decide ( copied from Bullbear )

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 04:52 | Report Abuse

http://announcements.bursamalaysia.com/EDMS/edmsweb.nsf/all/E6E029C15151F65B48257ABC00193B77/$File/KNM-Financial%20Results_3Q2012.pdf

please pardon my limited reading capabilities on financial report..

but i think ''Net profit/(loss) for the period'' is not accurate , it is not really 'net profit' .

Bursa or the company should use ''Total comprehensive (loss)/ income for the period'' for better accuracy on the company earning.

the net profit bursa post is actually just net from ' cost of operating & tax ' .

but forex earn/loss is real, minority interest is real, it is liabilities.

based on ''Total comprehensive (loss)/ income for the period''

this quarter is NOT 41,738,000 profit , but actually it is loss at (17,483,000)

wtf! im so blurring here, someone expert in reading financial report please explain to me please, and correct me if im wrong.. >.<

thank 1st for reading all the crap i typing so far.. lol

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-25 05:25 | Report Abuse

Ah Chung, why get so emotional and asked me to “stand aside”? No, I didn’t have million to lose like what is suggested by you. I have never punted in this share and lost any money. Why should I hate this counter? Sorry I forgot that everybody is different. For me I would be very happy if someone else can warn me of something I invested in and too overconfident about it because overconfidence is one of the deadly cognitive behaviour which is detrimental to our investment outcome. I have been there before, losing money quite some money in the share market, but not on KNM. So I thought my sceptical opinion may be of help for some people. Yeah. I may be wrong too in my view on KNM but bear in mind that when we put our hard earned money at risk, we have to be sceptical. Don’t you agree? Well let me “cheong hee” one more time and if you think I “talk cock and pussy only”, tell me so and I will stop talking about it.
I highly doubt their last report of earnings of 111 m because as I said 50m is just tax credit, and the other 61 m appears to be unreal because there is no cash received. This ‘earnings “ were shown in increase in receivables in the cash flows statement which is in the order of 127m, and their horrific amount of receivables of 1.2 billion (not 120 m as I have grossly understated previously). I was working in a senior position in a public-listed civil contracting firm and I know very well about contracts. Yes, contractors often claim extra for work done, variation orders etc and much of it is either over-claiming or disputable claims. Do the clients and the consultants agree with your claim is another matter, and most often, no. Even if most of your claims is legitimate, clients may refuse to pay you until they squeeze you. That is also why contractors over-claim to have a buffer for this provision. Well that is the irony of the industry, it is a dog-eat-dog one. You have to know about financial statement to spot this seemingly financial shenanigan.
“How much i can lose with this 0.48 cent counter ?” Does it matter if it is $4.80 or 0.48 sen share? If KNM drops 10 sen from 48 sen, it is 20%. If you buy 100,000 shares, that is about RM10,000 loss. So low already and cannot drop further? Go and have a look at the price history of those PN4 counters.
“KNM is one of the favourite counters of fund managers”? Really? Why is the share price dropped like no tomorrow then? Fund management belongs to the category of smart money. Thinking of punting in KNM warrants? You have made impressive calculations on how much profit you would make from them. Good luck.

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 05:41 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz ,mind look at my comment?

and please enlighten? ^.^

Posted by Maria Kamaruddin > 2012-11-25 06:50 | Report Abuse

the good thing is...its about time to jump in..just wait for force selling occur...hi,hi,hi,

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 07:15 | Report Abuse

hehehe after KCchongnz explained the questionable earnings err profit ahem and 1.2 BILLIONS receivables also still want to jump in ar ? hehe very brave indeed like Mel Gibson's BraveHearts - They make take our lives but they never take our KNM :) or maybe something that I made up 'They will never take our General Lee - over our dead bodies err RMs' hehe

Posted by kytan > 2012-11-25 07:23 | Report Abuse

i think force selling will end Monday 4:50pm to get lower price, but the question is how much it can up on next 2 days. with the hiap huat already become the goreng counter.

Posted by kytan > 2012-11-25 07:31 | Report Abuse

remember, most of the SOURCES is HOLD (TP 0.55), MIDF is SELL (TP 0.41). Only TA is BUY (TP 0.95 drop to 0.74 in 2 days target Price).

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-25 07:34 | Report Abuse

Fei Mau, when I look at the income statement, I am interested in the ordinary business, or the core business and if this ordinary business is making money, or has a moat. So the "net profit" they talked about of 116 m to a certain extend is a relevant figure, though I disagree with the tax credit as an income. Tax credit is irrelevant unless you make a profit and then you enjoy that. Foreign exchange gain/loss and many others such as gain/loss of disposal of an assets etc are one-off items, they are yes, one-off and has nothing to do with the ordinary business. Minority interest happens when the subsidiary companies financials are consolidated into the group financial statements, and yes they are of course relevant because not all net profit belongs to the equity shareholders of KNM.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-25 07:47 | Report Abuse

Frank, to be very frank, I don't know a lot about KNM. I am just making my observations basing on its financial statements and all those bullshit the management has been telling the analysts, the lala troop, that they will make so much more year in year out, and none has materialized. Now be careful here, I am talking about the business of KNM, not its share price. The share price (including its "allren")may jump like what have been "predicted" by a few of the people posting here. You miss the opportunity to make money out of it if you listen to me. Really. Because to me the management has been concentrating all their effort to endeavor to get the share price to jump (instead of improving its operations). They will fry the share price, I strongly believe. The only thing for small timer like us, we are at a disadvantage if we depend on the insiders, when they fry them and when they dump them.

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 07:57 | Report Abuse

okay..

but do you agree that the company latest quarter , in company accounting, they are making profit RM 41,738(000) , but in reality, i mean , after forex gain/loss , they actually making loss of RM 17,483(000)?

i think Net Profit should be really NET profit, net from all the cost, including cost of sales, cost of operating, taxes, minority interest etc etc and of course, including the gain/loss of forex.

if not, lets say the company ' net profit ' is 10,000 and equivalent to 10 cent EPS , but their forex loss is (5,000) , in reality, the company EPS should be 5 cent and not 10 cent. right?

you get me or not?

just like warren buffett said about EBITA, the taxes, depreciation is real.

the forex loss is real, is it or not?

Posted by Maria Kamaruddin > 2012-11-25 08:14 | Report Abuse

its real , that why its going south..! one thing when lala troop (bank analyst) say good about any cntr acutaly its time to sell for us(small timer)cos they are also selling.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-25 08:28 | Report Abuse

fei mau, foreign exchange loss is no doubt real, for that year. Yes, KNM lost money in that year if foreign exchange is taken into account, but it is one off. Next year we don't know there is any or not. It may even be foreign exchange gain next year. So we normally ignore this one-off item in analyzing company profitability. Tax, depreciation, interest expense etc are different. They are recurring and hence cannot be ignored. Some companies encountering persistent losses talk about their EBITDA only, not their net profit to project a false picture; I mean net profit of ordinary business.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-25 08:34 | Report Abuse

K C Loh, read the appendix in your posting on KNM. Here is my wild speculation. I remember you said you like reading my thought mah.
“Nearly 2 years after announcing its proposed RM2.2 b project, KNM has indicated in recent months that it was close to securing the financial close of the project, widely seen as a means to restore investor confidence in the firm.”
Two years already still not finalized, why? Something wrong? Will it restore investor confidence in the firm? Maybe because Malaysian investor always react positively to news like that.
“KNM has yet to finalise financial arrangement for its proposed RM2.2 b waste-to-energy project in UK. Postpone to first quarter of 2012 due to issues raised by Marubeni Corp”
Why so long? What issues? My wild guess is there is doubt whether the project financial viable. If not, why should Marubeni, as part of the financial consortium, want to lend so much money to KNM? If I am the bank officer, I won’t recommend to lent when I see its horrific balance sheet. What about the threat of European Financial Crisis? I will putting myself on the chopping board if KNM is unable to pay back the loan. Better safe than never. Again not all projects make money. Enron, also an energy company, lost its pants in the power plant projects in India and South America in mid 1990s.
“RHB downgrades the stock’s target price from 63 sen to 55 sen, against uncertainties about the implementation of KNM’s Peterborough enclave”
Why downgrade? Doesn’t it appear to have problems?
“Listed of Borsig in SXG”? Wait lah!

Posted by richrich8 > 2012-11-25 08:47 | Report Abuse

What kcchongnz said is very true. Over confident 'kills' in trading stock.

One must have a calm & open mind to be a successful trader. Over objective is to make monies out of stock trading. Profits! Regardless of the value of share

this forum is very good and some of the sifu here really give good advice. Also the talking points here are more constructive. I benefits a lot from their comments.

I would be gratefull if someone can caution me when I am over confident on some share.

Oil & Gas theme is booming... But there r so many counters.. U might wanna take a look then locking yourself into a counter.. Unless u r already an investor or employee of the co..

Happy trading & make PROFIT$$!!

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 08:48 | Report Abuse

hehe Kcchongnz ya appreciate your kind sharing and your honesty opinions/warnings in this lao sai share. ya I lost a fortune on this infact I've been following this for many years and based my buying on reports from analysts which at that time 10/10 was bullish.(HUGE MISTAKE - lesson learnt ) I got out mid this year and has been warning about this shares but no one would listen. Infact it actually backfired on me sometime back when it shot up like 20 percent from the low of 54+. I was just like you warning others but not as detailed like you reading the financial statements - more to the integrity and honesty of the management especially General Lee who seems to be more interested in frying the shares than to actually run the company. Too many things is not right with this company - from the way projects were announced and then cancelled to delayed, the buyback of shares when shares was sky high but earnings were eroding (another huge mistake on my part as I perceived that shares buyback especially on huge buyback by Lee & his cohorts will support the price) and then the always bullish announcement for analysts meeting but every year from 2008 they were so far off on their yearly financials forcasts that is not even funny anymore. Actually u're spot on on the financials as the tax credits of 1.4 billions are expiring end this year as well as about the BS analysts reports ( compared to 2 years ago they're pretty conservative nowdays and most have them either hold or sell so they pretty much knows General's trick :))
Sure they might fry this one day but I like to sleep well at night :)Cheap can be come cheaper. anyway, I'm just here to support my good friend YS1 and his girlfriends who despite the very kind advice of many well experienced/knowledgeble traders continue to believe in this stock:( Trust me you won't be the last to offer your sincere opinions and like I said earlier there's lots of KNM lovers out there err Bravehearts :) Cheers :)

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 08:52 | Report Abuse

okay thx.. kcchongnz , i think i need to learn more about forex and how it work.. in more detail

anyhow, i think we should not ignore forex as it is not important, especially for those companies that expose largely to it, it will affect the earning dramatically.

and for dividend, it will be bad too, if the company forex keep in loss position, and they refuse to convert back to ringgit for obvious reason, then.. no dividend

thats right, my indicator of picking stock is right hahaha..

always find a company that always pay dividend in time, no f will be given to those no-dividend company.

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 08:57 | Report Abuse

If I'm not mistaken General also announced after their last qtr lost early this year that 50% of the profits are going to be dividen for shareholders which at that time KNM was falling from the sky but after 2 quarters of 'profits' still yet to see any dividens:(

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-11-25 09:21 | Report Abuse

i stand on ah chung opinion . fund manager will take this opportunity to buy now.and will goreng it until reach their target.

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 09:35 | Report Abuse

There u go YS1:) I support you bravehearts hehe U will one day again be man of the match! You have not been playing well lately due to injuries and once you're back to 100% the goals will come to you. You've proven it once and again will prove your detractors wrong again :) wat is the TP for monday?

Posted by Maria Kamaruddin > 2012-11-25 09:55 | Report Abuse

0.45 cnts

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 09:59 | Report Abuse

how about 0.62 :D and 0.79 the next day , and 1.01 the day after ?

hahahaha dont worry doji sifatt dogi all intact, explosion will happen soon.. then it will fly~~~~~ lol huat ah hkc!! lol..

Posted by kcchongnz > 2012-11-25 10:04 | Report Abuse

How do you solve KNM problem like Maria?
How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?
How do you find the word that means Maria?
A flibbertigibbet, a willow the wisp, a clown

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 10:20 | Report Abuse

@Kcchongnz if I'm reading it correctly from the edge article Marubeni Is NOT part of the lender but anyway the real concern is the delay - again :( Alright Bravehearts we march forward :)

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2012-11-25 10:31 | Report Abuse

err backwards :(

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-11-25 10:57 | Report Abuse

ok, 46 sens then is possible after reading kcchongnz's mind. how about 44 sens? :)

Posted by Maria Kamaruddin > 2012-11-25 11:00 | Report Abuse

WAITING THE RIGHT TIME TO JUMP IN..

Posted by Chung > 2012-11-25 11:04 | Report Abuse

tomorrow knm will trade between 0.475-0.490
knm-warrant 0.11-11.5 in top 10 active volume

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 11:05 | Report Abuse

http://announcements.bursamalaysia.com/EDMS/edmsweb.nsf/all/E6E029C15151F65B48257ABC00193B77/$File/KNM-Financial%20Results_3Q2012.pdf

Intangible Assets 548,056,000?

come on!!

the company name knm(kan ni ma) alone at least worth 6.9 billions la...

this is an very extremely mfwtfffff undervalued company, PRICE target RM 18.98 :D ....

with the company name as a business moat, the PE ratio should be 195, long term target price : RM 225 per share

Posted by Maria Kamaruddin > 2012-11-25 11:06 | Report Abuse

p\s mtronic fly further...i still hold my 0.08 cent.

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-11-25 11:22 | Report Abuse

TP tomorrow 0.480 to 0.550

Posted by Fat Cat Tim Buddy > 2012-11-25 11:33 | Report Abuse

how about no?

morning 29% up, afternoon 29% up, monday closing will be 0.795!!

son of doji will use his mojo combine withe dogi to form the super curvy gprs 3:16 , the 7 star will be line up exactly at 3:33...

huat ah ong ah KNM!! knmm ah! lol...

Posted by yungshen1 > 2012-11-25 11:38 | Report Abuse

fat cat tim u got hold knm share or not