Posted by calvintaneng > 2022-01-22 22:23 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2022-01-22 22:26 | Report Abuse

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3219885

RM1.22 BILLIONS DIVIDED BY 1.065 BILLION SHARES MEAN EACH WILL COUGH UP RM1.44 PER SHARE

WHY?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2022-01-22 22:32 | Report Abuse

WHY NEED SO MUCH MONEY?

Could be due to non recourse debt of which lender can seize assets (as collateral)

Yinson is showing financial distress by asking so much money. Is it due to over borrowings & razor thin profit unable to service loan now?

See https://www.quickenloans.com/learn/the-difference-between-recourse-and-nonrecourse-loans#:~:text=Nonrecourse%20debt%20is%20debt%20that's,property%20or%20money%20from%20you.

Posted by stockraider > 2022-01-23 11:08 | Report Abuse

Put it this way ...u need to differentiate between Perpetual Bond v Preference Share mah!..!

Legally Perpetual bond....is actual borrowing with no clear repayment or maturity schedule mah!
As long they pays the interest when due...the perpetual bond have no expiry period loh!
However....to avoid the perpetual bond....exist forever...sometime the investment bankers...sometimes set certain dates for review for potential redemption at the discretion of both borrowers or lenders say every 7, 10, 15 years loh!

Legally Preference share...or are actually equity.....they pay dividend instead of interest loh!
Preference shares....can also be classified as liability when they are contractually redemption schedule period of the bond mah!

For accounting treatment of Perpetually bond & preference share....they both can classified as equity loh...!
But for the portion due for redemption say within 1 yr....that is usually classified as short term liabilities loh!

During liquidation perpetual bond rank as liabilities whereas Preference share rank lower than liabilities loh!

For investors to assess the strength of balance sheet, it is preferably to analyse the perpetual bond as a liability, since u need to pay interest on it, although the bond is perpetual with no fixed term liablity loh!

For preference share assessment....it is preferably to analyse it as a liability if it has fixed period of redemption loh!

DO NOT BE CONFUSED MAH!

LU TAU BOH ?

Posted by stockraider > 2022-01-23 11:17 | Report Abuse

They can call a "duck" as "chicken" loh!

But as an investors analysing the business potential u must not be confuse loh!

Put it this way ...u need to differentiate between Perpetual Bond v Preference Share mah!..!

Legally Perpetual bond....is actual borrowing with no clear repayment or maturity schedule mah!
As long they pays the interest when due...the perpetual bond have no expiry period loh!
However....to avoid the perpetual bond....exist forever...sometime the investment bankers...sometimes set certain dates for review for potential redemption at the discretion of both borrowers or lenders say every 7, 10, 15 years loh!

Legally Preference share...or are actually equity.....they pay dividend instead of interest loh!
Preference shares....can also be classified as liability when they are contractually redemption schedule period of the bond mah!

For accounting treatment of Perpetually bond & preference share....they both can classified as equity loh...!
But for the portion due for redemption say within 1 yr....that is usually classified as short term liabilities loh!

During liquidation perpetual bond rank as liabilities whereas Preference share rank lower than liabilities loh!

For investors to assess the strength of balance sheet, it is preferably to analyse the perpetual bond as a liability, since u need to pay interest on it, although the bond is perpetual with no fixed term liablity loh!

For preference share assessment....it is preferably to analyse it as a liability if it has fixed period of redemption loh!

DO NOT BE CONFUSED MAH!


Posted by SarifahSelinder > Jan 23, 2022 11:05 AM | Report Abuse

Alsvin dah la Yinson treated its perpetual bond as equity

Byk jenis perpetual bonds depending on d terms some r loan liabilities some r more akin to equity

Posted by Marigold123 > 2022-01-23 13:55 | Report Abuse

Seasonal commodity upward

Posted by Myeye > 2022-01-25 14:26 | Report Abuse

~.~

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-01-25 17:03 | Report Abuse

everyday red red, dialog green green

Posted by jokergambler44 > 2022-01-29 21:31 | Report Abuse

https://www.malaysianow.com/news/2022/01/29/after-losing-millions-tycoon-sues-uk-casino-for-not-stopping-his-marathon-gambling/?fbclid=IwAR3b-2NrQ1uQj-pXr14t-RwtHD9UO9-pId-y-niQ3jtLdJpT29eWLSRAXKc

Posted by MiaoMiao7 > 2022-01-29 22:18 | Report Abuse

2015.... now only surface. hmm....

Posted by jokergambler44 > 2022-01-29 22:57 | Report Abuse

2015 2022 doesn't matter .. this lim family so rich.. made tons of money... such a small little amount don't want pay?

Posted by MiaoMiao7 > 2022-01-29 23:07 | Report Abuse

I think the uncle only has minority shares. this 10m could be a huge sum for him. big bro and son probably has the biggest share.

Posted by chickenriceseller > 2022-01-29 23:40 | Report Abuse

money cannot last. gamble all away. syabas.

Posted by warrenG > 2022-01-30 15:49 | Report Abuse

This company directors are also SC directors, conflict of interest.

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-01-31 10:49 | Report Abuse

conclusion is yinson - rubbish share?

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-01-31 12:28 | Report Abuse

really king of rubbish share, dropped til mother also cannot recognize

Posted by Cnlim > 2022-02-01 17:34 | Report Abuse

Yinson very dangerous to buy director sue by casino in UK 3 million pounds n blame the casino for giving him to much credit in 3 days better stay away

Posted by muhdsaiful > 2022-02-01 17:56 | Report Abuse

ni boss gamble kaki.. careful

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-03 16:45 | Report Abuse

Came across this interesting interview by Khoo Hsu Chuang with Lim Chern yuan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awHKPyXrYAI&t=256s

Posted by DJThong > 2022-02-04 22:05 | Report Abuse

Happy new year
From nusantara dj thong Ing Yi

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2022-02-05 21:50 | Report Abuse

In investing we should always learn how to invert. The question we should ask is, why did institutions borrow 7 billion to yinson? Is it unsecured loans? Or loans based on assets as collateral and long term contracts?

Once we invert we find out that the revenue generated of 4 billion a year already includes operating cash
Of 781 million per quarter, with 200 million in finance costs paid. More importantly, what is in the order book that underlies the loan?

FPSO Anna nery of which part of the loan is being borrowed, will start in 2023 and a service contract of 25 years, 25% of which was sold to sumitomo group. The right thing to do is how much is the charter contract per day? Maybe the project contract value of 5.4 billion USD over 25 years is an interesting number? Their daily rate for charter is 590k per day, which is a lot higher than the recent contract win for marlim basin, FPSO Atlanta and FPSO maria, also 22 year charters at 500k per day starting in 2024.

Now the question you should ask is this. How much revenue and cash flow will they be receiving in 2024…? Will yinson be doubling its revenue from 4 billion to 8 billion a year? Or will it be 12 billion a year?

Yinson is a very simple business to understand. Their order is clear and signed until 2048, the volume signed and the requirements to hit their target to deploy 3 more FPSO with million barrels capacity is forcing them to take a huge pp to fund the growth of 1.6 billion needed to build the ships.

Their contracts are even easier to understand. They don't charge per barrel or split exploration costs like sapura or armada. They charge a fix day rate for charter of ships over a set period with all costs amortised within contract.

So far all their FPSO have 99% uptime, with the only cancelled project was in Vietnam due to force majeure ( yinson gets to keep the ship as part of contract and partial payment). Other than that, yinson orang puteh managers all have a stellar track record.

The only thing required now is time.

Why is sumitomo group willing to pay 25%? Why did k-line also buy another 10%? Why sukuk 1 billion renewable bond approve? The data is very clear and very simple to understand. I'm surprised with information you can directly download off the internet( contracts are on the yinson website and upstream online) we still find uncertainty.

Incredible.

>>>>>>>
JJPTR Yinson short and long term loan is about $7.35billion only. Assuming borrowing rates about 7%, interest cost comes to $514m only. And yearly profit not enough to cover the borrowing cost. Will it collapse? Depend who will run first.
paying loan interest is one thing,paying back the loan of 7.35b is another thing.
One way is to print $7.35b worth of papers and dilute existing shareholders.
31/01/2022 10:02 AM

Posted by James Ng > 2022-02-07 22:20 | Report Abuse

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/general/2022-02-07-story-h1598364793.jsp
[转贴] [Video:浅谈YINSON HOLDINGS BHD, YINSON, 7293] - James的股票投资James Share Investing

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-08 16:55 | Report Abuse

for real dont need to put hope on this rubbish share, wasting time only

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-08 17:11 | Report Abuse

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/yinson-says-final-acceptance-rm22b-petrobras-contracts-take-place-4q-2024

Orderbook RM65 bil?

Posted by calvintaneng > 2022-02-08 18:28 | Report Abuse

Yinson is technically insolvent and without "SOS" help from Shareholders by way of getting Rm1.22 Billions it might go bankrupt

no use piling on more jobs while Debt ballooned over Rm7 Billions (twice that of Serba)

Yinson is suffering from "The law of diminishing returns " just like Sendai

the more jobs Sendai did the faster it dies

Same will apply to Yinson

Better go invest in better shares which reward shareholders with good dividends rather than asking for money in debt distress

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-08 19:40 | Report Abuse

i think the main difference is that the contracts are from reputable clients, which can be traced.

With the rights issue, i guess the owners are also putting more skin in the game + epf is buying more. They probably know something we dont.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2022-02-08 21:10 | Report Abuse

EPF knows nothing as EPF outsourced buying to Citigroup

Citigroup sells on behalf of Epf all Palm oil shares across the board to sabotage Malaysia as Citigroup from USA is against palm oil due to USA being a competing Soybean oil producer

And it was Citigroup which bought lots of Serba shares blindly till Epf became Top 3rd owner of Serba.

Now Yinson's Rm5 Billion borrowings are denominated in USD Dollars. Rising US Rate will Lift up the USD Against Ringgit. Very bad for all who borrow in USD

See https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/fdnews/249307.jsp

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-09 12:25 | Report Abuse

dont need argue and discuss , share price told the best story, conclusion is yinson is lapsap share

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-09 23:41 | Report Abuse

I see, their debt is sizable but vs the contracts i think its kinda dwarf. I have been looking at them awhile now. Seems like a solid counter since turnaround.

haha so sour one. Are you all trying to secretly collect? I want too

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-09 23:44 | Report Abuse

looking at it from the long term contracts seems to be the way to go

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-10 11:47 | Report Abuse

i changed to dialog already, so many good news but share price keep going down need to be careful already, if really good this wont happen

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-10 16:24 | Report Abuse

ya lar, but i'm long term, so i will just wait and see, fingers cross. room from market cap growth seems justifiable.

Posted by Apeinvestor > 2022-02-10 17:40 | Report Abuse

Bursa just posted their presentation last year.. talking about their non recourse and termination at 30:10 as well as the future investments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-qQpu6C0k

Posted by MiaoMiao7 > 2022-02-10 19:31 | Report Abuse

Their earnings will double or triple by the end of 2024.... question is, can you wait? I am very bad at trading, so I just buy and wait. some may want to time the market and enter before 2024. I choose to wait.

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-10 20:22 | Report Abuse

they say will double or triple only ma, who can guarantee?

Posted by Eric963708 > 2022-02-11 05:36 | Report Abuse

scare another Serbadk cuz last time they also announced some of de contract dey had but in de end counter suspended cuz of fake report 做假账

Posted by A1a2a3a4 > 2022-02-11 15:09 | Report Abuse

Flytothemoon everyday says it's a junk stock，But he's here every day

Posted by MiaoMiao7 > 2022-02-11 19:55 | Report Abuse

@Eric963708

Serba's projects all awarded by funny companies. Yinson by big oil giants like Petrobras, Total, Petronas, etc.

Serba only started receiving these funny projects after they got listed, like 3 or 4 years ago. Yinson has a long track record.

Posted by rl68 > 2022-02-11 22:29 | Report Abuse

https://brazilenergyinsight.com/2022/02/11/petrobras-receives-international-award-for-debt-management/

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-12 13:07 | Report Abuse

@MiaoMiao7 Yea, they are quite transparent, can see their clientele on their slides in the website. No funny companies and funny awards. Just go check their clients market cap. lol.

Once their first brazil fpso comes this year, should have earnings kicker.

think they are designing for TOTAL two FPSO too! probably easier to go in for the bidding stage, if i'm not wrong.

Posted by Peterng123 > 2022-02-12 13:11 | Report Abuse

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/after-2021-rebound-fpso-market-to-continue-going-strong-in-2022-rystad-says/

^ From discussions, Enauta would be a even better, lower risk contract, lower equity portion contract for Y

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-14 15:08 | Report Abuse

A1a2a3a4, just because I prefered yinson than dialog before, but luckily switched to dialog already, yinson 烂泥扶不上壁

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-14 16:55 | Report Abuse

see, dialog up 9 cents, yinson also can dropped 3 cents with crude oil up so much, this is so called 烂泥扶不上壁 rubbish share

Posted by Somsak007 > 2022-02-15 08:30 | Report Abuse

Yinson run by smart management and has better track record ... steady pom pi pi

Posted by kl_guy > 2022-02-15 11:09 | Report Abuse

i wonder why there someone trying to push yinson lower ? is there a accumulation strategy or forcing a margin call to happen ? so that can buy more before big push.
brent and wti going up , make no sense that yinson don't benefit from this high price.

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-15 11:40 | Report Abuse

ya, the only O&G share that crude oil sky high but everyday free fall, another 7cents dropped

Posted by Somsak007 > 2022-02-15 12:01 | Report Abuse

Shark at play ... rilek let them play

Posted by LongTermInvestor8 > 2022-02-15 22:00 | Report Abuse

@flytothemoon

Oil price up or down does not effect their profit. Oil went to negative in 2020 also never effect their earnings. if oil goes to USD200, yinson wont make more money also. u dont understand yinson.

Posted by flytothemoon > 2022-02-15 22:30 | Report Abuse

of course i do understand, if oil goes to USD200, of course more projects will be awarded and maybe can get better price also, it will indirectly affect

Posted by kl_guy > 2022-02-16 12:51 | Report Abuse

@flytothemoon

Yinson might not direct benefit from oil price but indirectly bcos more oil need to be transported.
You need to see the bigger picture.
If oil price increase , from top to bottom of industry will benefit.