Posted by iafx > 2013-01-02 11:11 | Report Abuse

haha... won't waste time for that, no worry.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-02 11:21 | Report Abuse

I actually welcomed very much criticism, I always say. Yours are welcomed too. However I prefer any criticism with facts and substantiations. If you don't have, it really doesn't matter too. But when you said my facts, solid facts are merely based on faith, then I think you have overstepped the boundary. I show you mountains of facts. Facts you nay dispute. However, you don't dispute it, probably you can't, and you just ridicule me that I am basing on faith. Come on, show me your facts. Dispute my facts with your facts. Be intelligent in discussion.

Posted by iafx > 2013-01-02 11:29 | Report Abuse

mountain of facts or BS? all yr data first copied from other reports not made by u, then uses theory/formula which can be found on www, books, lastly add a bit of your emotion. Yeah, that's a lot of fact - to hard sell the counter?

let's see when ptaras would announce bonus issue, or maybe just private placement. by then, whether what you said here is a fact, or merely just market talk.

btw, no body try to change you ... no one would bother, it's just view, cannot take it? ... hahaha.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-02 11:42 | Report Abuse

iafx, see now you go a few steps further. I copy here and there, plagiarism? Show me where I copy anything from anywhere, anything at all. Of course data you have to get it from the Bursa announcement. Theory is based on finance theory and everybody does it differently. In academic field, plagiarism is a definite no no. I am not an academician, but I too adhere to that standard.
Trying to hard sell? Yes I am a shareholder but why I should I hard sell a counter with not much liquidity? How many people will be entice to buy to boost up the share price? You must be kidding.
Announcement of bonus issues, private placement? Market talk, are they? Do I talk much about them? Do I care so much of them?
Yeah few would bother of what I write. It doesn't matter to me. Just views, yes, don't be too serious. But as you said someone is basing the facts on faith, I ask you to substantiate it. Can you? Come on show me your facts and substantiation. Don't just accuse.

Posted by reyes430 > 2013-01-02 11:50 | Report Abuse

Iafx i bring no offence to you but i can prove to you that Kcchong did made his own research and analysis on Pintaras. This is a fact which i can even prove to you! Regarding to your so called "hard sell the counter", please be remind that this forum is mainly for stock discussing, everyone is discussing and sharing on purpose. No doubt there will be some "hard sell" sometimes, but i dont see any problem as Pintaras is a fundamentally sound counter, a matter of fact. Again, no offence,cheers

Posted by unknown > 2013-01-03 23:13 | Report Abuse

@kcchongnz - actually it took me less than 5 min, just got no time & sorry for late reply

The spreadsheet does not belong to me, need to stress it here again - it is uploaded by Andrew. I read his book 2 years back, it was that time when I first came upon the link.

Firstly - will have to agree with you that the method is not DCF. I saw the empirical formula for DCF last week from another CFA handbook, totally not the same. But question is, can the formula in the spreadsheet be used? I came across the same formula being taught in 2 different locally published books

1) couldn't recall the title - by Andrew Chia himself
2) How to Make Money from your Stock Investment - by Ho Kok Mun

Could anyone verify if the method can be used ?

Secondly, thank you for the link on the EPS growth rate. I couldn't agree more with your opinion that the estimation of EPS growth rate in the spreadsheet is flawed. When I 1st tried to estimate the EPS growth rate using the spreadsheet, the end figures I arrived at are always way off the figures published in the Dynaquest reports. I starts questioning the reliability of the spreadsheet as I trust the paid published reports more than the figures generated by the spreadsheet. After a few attempts, I gave up the EPS growth rate estimation using spreadsheet. Ever since then, I applied the figures reported by Dynaquest directly.

Thirdly, agreed that the correct term to be used for 15% should be required return not growth rate as stated in spreadsheet. Why 15% ?

1) default value taught by the 2 books - very lame answer
2) 15% - 5% allocation for inflation rate, 3~4% allocation for the interest rate offered by bank, another 6~7% allocation for risk that I'm willing to take by putting my money into equity than FD.

the 15% required return varies according to individual, no fix figure

Posted by unknown > 2013-01-03 23:17 | Report Abuse

@kcloh: any other flaws missed out? is the method in spreadsheet a valid valuation method ? appreciate your kind comment

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-04 02:39 | Report Abuse

Unknown, good effort. I think you know what you are doing. Discount cash flows analysis is a finance method of finding the present value of a project, a business etc by discounting its future expected cash flows to the present value. Everybody does it differently and I don't think there is an "empirical formula". Can the spreadsheet by Andrew Chia be used? Why not? As i said everybody does it differently. However you have to judge which is a more appropriate and better one. I have already given my comments in my previous post.
Actually the assumptions used especially the expected growth rate and the discount rate are much more important than the method because slight change of these assumption make hell of difference to your conclusions. Past growth rate can only be serve as a rough guide for the future expectation. It would be very wrong to think that a company which grew 25% for the last 5 years can continue to grow for the next 5 years, 10 years. There are very few exceptions; Microsoft in the 80s, apple in the 90s, very very few. For me if I see the business and its operating efficiencies are good and I am contemplating to invest in it, I try to use conservative assumptions to see what its intrinsic value is and then invest only if it sells way below this intrinsic value. I always use my own judgement. But I think Dynaquest's assumption of growth rate could be more appropriate because this department is their rice bowl. I am just a novice retail investor.
As for the discount rate, you are right to say the discount rate is arbitrary and everybody has his own required return. I am comfortable with your 15% because it will be safer, although if you use this high discount rate for every case, you will end up very difficult to find a stock to invest. If you discount the future cash flows using a 15% discount rate and a 10% discount rate, the present value is hell lot difference. One comment of your discount rate is that you have a separate rate for inflation and interest rate, besides the risk premium. For me, I just have one of them plus a risk premium. Tell me, if you are a conservative person and want to put your money in bank, do you think of getting 9%, 4% interest rate plus the bank must compensate me for the inflation rate of 5%?

Posted by unknown > 2013-01-04 08:35 | Report Abuse

geometrical equation to be precise, kikikiki

conservative engineer will put double or triple layer safety
factors to their design to make sure their design don't fail. unless there is totally no risk / minimal risk , then only the additional safety factors to be removed :)

subjective again kcchongnz - you know the risk of this particular business more than anyone else since you were in the industry before, hence you can afford smaller discounted rate. As for me, I know them from surface only, unless I know how they manage their contracts in & out, I am in my opinion to maintain rate.

But of course for other cash cow counters that have the existence in the market for more than 15~20 years. I'll definitely reduce the unnecessary safety factors.

thanks a lot for your comments, appreciate that

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-04 12:19 | Report Abuse

unknown, I have to agree with you about your personal choice of growth and discount rate. How many times I have said investment is an art rather than a science. I hope you don't say I "BS" here below:
In forecasting a growth rate, there is a lot of uncertainty. In a report by Dresdner Kleinwort Macro Research (I have given credit) about this, it was shown that growth projection basing on past growth was out by more than 50% off the mark on the high and low ends of the growth projections. That is why in order for me to justify if a company is worth investing or not, I use very conservative assumption of growth.
On the other hand, discount rate is more certain. You are right to say that you want 15% required return and nobody should question you. For me I use 10% because I think it is conservative enough because the risk premium here is at least 6%, the high end of the historical risk premium of the US market over the risk free rate. Again I give credit to Jeremy Seigal in his book "Stocks for the long run", no plagiarism.

Posted by unknown > 2013-01-04 15:04 | Report Abuse

worry no, i'm certainly won't say you "BS". i'm still sane . don't treat everyone you encounter alike the one who look after the high volume counters & believe investing as a faith.

thank you again for all your precious inputs

hope this company from Sekinchan town farewell

Posted by iafx > 2013-01-04 15:11 | Report Abuse

left hand write to right hand, right hand greet the left hand, all by same person trying to hard sell.

actually, ptaras is a nice pick, despite a few down sides. there is no need for you to sell so hard.

hahaha...

Posted by iafx > 2013-01-04 15:12 | Report Abuse

& btw, no one try to change yr mind yeah, that's yr problem really. in a public forum, ppl is free to give different view.

hahaha...

Posted by unknown > 2013-01-04 15:15 | Report Abuse

free as you will - it is a public forum, do agree on that

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-01-04 15:38 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Jan 4, 2013 03:11 PM | Report Abuse
left hand write to right hand, right hand greet the left hand, all by same person trying to hard sell.
actually, ptaras is a nice pick, despite a few down sides. there is no need for you to sell so hard.

Anyone finds the above statement unbelievable, incredible, ridiculous, what a f'king statement is that?
The same person trying to hard sell? OMG.
But at least he agrees that ptaras is a nice pick now. But why used the word BS in the first place?

Posted by tomdickharry > 2013-01-22 07:54 | Report Abuse

1st flaw = EPS growth rate estimation
2nd flaw = should use average dividend payout % from EPS instead of average dividend yield

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-01 00:06 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, u mentioned about 'certain religion'. i have NO doubt u are very excellent in stock analyzing. but kc, even if u have a lot of money like warren buffet, how many years would he/u live? what proof do u need? empirical? that GOD exists, and it is not that difficult to search for the true religion, it just most man 'choose not to' believe

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-01 00:10 | Report Abuse

do believe that "even if GOD makes u the most skilled and knowledgable person" in stock...if HE ALSO has fated "les miserable" destiny for u, in stock or in any other matters?

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-01 00:16 | Report Abuse

yes no doubt pintaras is such a precious counter, but it can still go down to 5 cents, not because knowledge that we possessed, but THE Knowledge of The Exalted. sorry i just wrote all of this because you seems so cynical about religion. ok full stop, just talk about stock, about the former just consider in your/our heads.

Posted by unknown > 2013-02-01 00:19 | Report Abuse

how come "kong ye sou" is not categorized as violation of i3 Community Standards ?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-01 00:32 | Report Abuse

anbz, when did you say i am cynical about religion? Why do you want to talk about religion here? Believe in what you believe, nobody stop you and be "cynical" about your religion. I respect your religion, whatever is it. But don't try to force your religion on others, ok? Pintaras goes down to 5 sen? "The knowledge o The Exallted"? What the hell you are talking about?

Posted by ulalar > 2013-02-01 08:26 | Report Abuse

so classic, giving a slap in the face after that said settled, we talk something else....wahahahaha

observe observe,need to learn that ultimate technique, even more better than recent "listen,listen,listen"

Posted by humbled > 2013-02-02 16:32 | Report Abuse

Agreed with kcchongnz, i don't think he showed any disrespect towards anyone or religion. I have no intention of doing that either and i respect all religions but this is a share forum.

Posted by humbled > 2013-02-02 16:36 | Report Abuse

By raising statements like 'how long we gonna live' or by the power of the e****** ain't gonna help at all.

Posted by GCruey > 2013-02-16 00:37 | Report Abuse

PTARAS, a good company,,, make a lots before know it since 2010, hold 3 years, good dividend yield, healthy cash flow, a lots projects in hand. Sold due to projects decrease, not more construction company but share investment company (afraid of political issue), valuation relative higher. Anyway, like to look for good valuation penny stock to invest. Anything can change change opinion but don't scold me, I want to become sharper in share investment and accumulate the wealth but not cari gaduh...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-16 09:29 | Report Abuse

GCruey, if you have bought Pintaras and have held it for three years as mentioned by you, you would have made more than double, including all dividens. Syabas! And good that you have posted an opposite view of what I have written. Good to discuss and share information mah. However, I encourage you to read its financial reports, includig its latest annual report; study their revenue and profit, the management discussions (reviews, future prospects etc. This is because you are wrong to say that "Sold due to projects decrease, not more construction company but share investment company (afraid of political issue), valuation relative higher." Do some homework, then only you know what I am talking about. Not cari gaduh here. OK?

Posted by iafx > 2013-02-16 10:55 | Report Abuse

"This is because you are wrong to say that ..."

who r u to judge "you are wrong", you definitely right?? GC wrote with real facts, not paper fact, not "if" here, not "if" there.

On top of GC view, ptaras remains as a counter with no liquidity.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-16 11:15 | Report Abuse

ifax, I like GC's comments. As for you,where is your facts? I have agreed with you about illiquidity of Ptaras, no arguement. Where are your facts? I highly doubt if you can even read financal statements.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-16 11:31 | Report Abuse

you accused me of bullshitting, copycat etc a few times but you can't substantiate any of these malicious accusations. Anyway just glance through some of your postings, those explain why you can't substantiate your accusations. Your postings have no subtance at all. No evidence of any knowleadge of finance and investment, absolutely nothing. For me that is ok. Nobody knows everything. But just don't be arrogant and badmouth others.

Posted by BC475654 > 2013-02-16 13:55 | Report Abuse

KC.Good comments so far.Keep up with your good contributions and many thanks for your kindness to share in this forum.Factual n informative.We need your solid findings,research supported by data[time consuming effort] such as yours before moving forward to make the final call to buy /to sell.
ifax,no hard feelings,ok.We are here to agree and to agree to disagree
to derive a common ground and a common goal.A good ROI for all.

Posted by iafx > 2013-02-17 12:16 | Report Abuse

there is no securities house covering this counter - why? no need to reply here, go & do yr homework.

what a joke, tons of books/www/classes/software nowadays on how to read statement, find figure etc etc; what's so aiyaya about being able to read paper? especially copy & bs around it... sigh.

simple, should paper fact is so accurate, why ppl still cannot make enough based on it, why market does not respond accordingly since it is sooooo good as tau-fu claimed it is? in fact, many make loses following these papers, not to mention those who followed bs story.

ptaras solely a family business, no liquidity, core value is never about retail investors, they would rather place $ into private fun(d). mega infra prjs r not forever, after ge13 many will realize "lots of prjs in hand" on the "paper", but only few r running & probably not running at the size stated, not to mention not all running prjs make good $ - what u read is only lum-sum, data in the passed.

ptaras a pick only bcos it is small & relately safe given its cash (also means $ not utilize); maybe could exercise bonus (hopefully not yet another private placement). given its outlook, it is actually too expensive already. given that price, there r a number of other counters worth better than this one. those who grabbed it during the 1.4-1.5 days a bless of god (no need say anything :). those who buy above 2.7 should continue to assess the viability of holding this counter. GCruey could have done a right thing by disposing it now & wait for next opportunity.

god bless u ptaras to issue 1:1 bonus share, good luck all :)

Posted by ulalar > 2013-02-17 12:41 | Report Abuse

kekekeke, need securities house covering consider good ? okokok, next time ulalar will only buy those with securities house covering only, kekekekeke

lol, are they going after the mega projects? how come I don't know one. stupid spies "ularing" around, need to starve them already. kekekekeke

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-17 22:04 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Feb 17, 2013 12:16 PM | Report Abuse
there is no securities house covering this counter - why? no need to reply here, go & do yr homework.

ME, THAT IS WHY I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF, FORM ANALYZING AND INTERPRETING ITS FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, AND VALUATIONS. YEAH, I HAVE DONE A LOT OF HOMEWORK ALREADY. BUT YOU ACCUSED ME OF BULLSHITTING AND COPY, SO MANY TIMES, EVEN NOW AS BELOW. COPY FROM WHERE? SO HOW? MUST BE RECOMMENDED BY SECURITIES HOUSE THEN ONLY SHOULD BUY? YEAH MEH? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ULARLAR'S STATEMENT ABOVE? AGREED WITH YOU? SO WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE?

what a joke, tons of books/www/classes/software nowadays on how to read statement, find figure etc etc; what's so aiyaya about being able to read paper? especially copy & bs around it... sigh.

ME: BUT YOU EVEN DON'T SEEM TO KNOW HOW TO READ, HOW TO FIND FIGURES ALSO WITH TONS OF BOOKS/WWW/CLASSES, SOFTWARE ETC ETC AS STATED BY YOU! SO WHERE ARE YOUR FIGURES? WHY NOT JUST COPY FROM ALL THOSE THINGS YOU MENTIONED? DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO COPY AND BS MEH! "WHAT A JOKE" SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO YOU OR ME?

simple, should paper fact is so accurate, why ppl still cannot make enough based on it, why market does not respond accordingly since it is sooooo good as tau-fu claimed it is? in fact, many make loses following these papers, not to mention those who followed bs story.

ME: SEE HOW GC DOUBLED HIS INVESTMENT IN PINTARAS IN THREE YEARS. JEALOUS OR NOT? BS STORY MEH, HOW DO I BS? GOT SO MANY PEOPLE LOST MONEY IN PINTARAS FOLLOWING MY BS STORY OR THOSE PAPERS MEH, WHO? ME TAU-FU, YOU LEI? CAN'T EVEN READ FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, CAN'T COPY OR BS ALSO. JUST SIMPLY ACCUSING OTHERS WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIATION. SO HOW SHOULD I CALL YOU?

ptaras solely a family business, no liquidity, core value is never about retail investors, they would rather place $ into private fun(d). mega infra prjs r not forever, after ge13 many will realize "lots of prjs in hand" on the "paper", but only few r running & probably not running at the size stated, not to mention not all running prjs make good $ - what u read is only lum-sum, data in the passed.

ME:PTARAS SOLELY A FAMILY BUSINESS? I THOUGHT IT IS A PUBLIC LISTED COMPANY? DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENT FORMS OF BUSINESS OR NOT? NEVER ABOUT RETAIL INVESTORS? EVERY YEAR I RECEIVE DIVIDEND. LAST YEAR I RECEIVED ABOUT 20 SEN PER SHARE WOH. COMPARE WITH MY AVERAGE PRICE OF RM2.00, A DIVIDEND YIELD OF 10% LEI! HOW MUCH DIVIDEND DO YOU RECEIVE FOR YOUR "INVESTMENT" IN YOUR SHARES AH? NO LIQUIDITY? YEAH, DON'T HAVE TO BE LIKE A BROKEN RECORD, I HAVE ALREADY AGREED WITH YOU SO MANY TIMES ALREADY ON THIS. BUT WITH OR WITHOUT LIQUIDITY, GC DOUBLED HIS INVESTMENT IN THREE YEARS WOH. THAT IS EQUAL TO 24% COMPOUNDED ANNUAL RETURN A YEAR LEI! MEGA PROJECT? HAVE YOU MADE A RESPONSE TO ULARLAR'S COMMENTS ABOVE? ONLY A FEW RUNNING AND PROBABLY NOT RUNNING AT SIZE STATED? LIKE WHAT ULARLAR WAS ASKING, "HOW COME I DON'T KNOW AH?" YOU KNOW MEH? WHICH ARE THE PROJECTS? BTW, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO OR NOT?

ptaras a pick only bcos it is small & relately safe given its cash (also means $ not utilize); maybe could exercise bonus (hopefully not yet another private placement). given its outlook, it is actually too expensive already. given that price, there r a number of other counters worth better than this one. those who grabbed it during the 1.4-1.5 days a bless of god (no need say anything :). those who buy above 2.7 should continue to assess the viability of holding this counter. GCruey could have done a right thing by disposing it now & wait for next opportunity.

ME: GOT PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEH? GOT BONUS MEH? HOW COME I DON'T KNOW ALSO? BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW BONUS ISSUES CAN INCREASE MY VALUE OF PINTARAS SHARES? TOO EXPENSIVE? HOW MUCH SHOULD IT WORTH AH? TELL ME HOW YOU GET YOUR NUMBER, PLEASE! A NUMBER OF OTHER COUNTERS WORTH BETTER? WHICH ONES AH? TELL ME PLEASE! AND ALSO SHOWS ME YOUR COMPUTATION WHY YOU THINK THEY ARE BETTER. I AM DYING TO GET TIPS FROM YOU MAN! THOSE WHO BUY 2.7 SHOULD CONTINUE TO ASSESS THE VIABILITY OF HOLDING? GC DID THE RIGHT THING BY DISPOSING IT NOW? HOW YOU KNOW ABOUT PINTARAS SHARE PRICE IN THE FUTURE AH? YOU ARE PAUL THE OCTOPUS AH? OR A SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN?

god bless u ptaras to issue 1:1 bonus share, good luck all :)

ME; IN PINTARAS, I INVEST ACCORDING TO ITS FUNDAMENTALS, NOT GAMBLING. SO I DON'T NEED THE BLESSING OF GOD. ANYWAY IF YOU GAMBLE, GOD WON'T HELP YOU ONE. NEED GOD'S BLESSING FOR 1:1 BONUS????

Posted by GCruey > 2013-02-17 22:45 | Report Abuse

From my observation, year 2011, PTARAS alsmost get the project award everymonth, but since last year, only 2 projects (if not mistaken). So this 2 years, revenue may go to peak and then slowdown unless this year can get back many projects award again. I think that since it can invest so much in share market why not declare special dividend to its shareholders... There is a risk, if Its Major shareholder want to privatise it with not reasonable price we also no point... Anyway, it is a good company base on historical management philosophy

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-17 23:33 | Report Abuse

GCruey, I think I owe you an apology for saying that you are wrong. It is just a different opinion. But let me put forward my point. But first let me clarify that I have never ever have the intention of peddling for the stock. It is just for sharing and discussion purpose.

The table below is the financial performance of Pintaras for the last 6 years.
Year 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007
Revenue, m 185.2 125.9 105.7 130.3 165.4 147.4
Net profit, m 42.1 25.7 20.7 16.1 26.3 20.4
Net profit margin 23% 20% 20% 12% 16% 14%
EPS, sen 53 32 26 20 33 25
Dividend per share 20.0 19.0 15.0 10.0 12.0 10.0
Cash flows per share 66.0 28.4 14.5 39.7 24.6 21.5
Contrary to what you said, revenue and profit rose by 47% and 24% respectively for the year ending 30 June 2012. Please note that I have adjusted the result from the one-time extraordinary gain/loss, especially from its equity fund investment. However, you were probably right to say that project awards for Pintaras has slowed down recently because we don't see new announcement on project secured. But I think there is still a lot of construction works to be carried out and new awards forthcoming because of the LRT and other ETP projects. Management has been upbeat about it. But you could be right too. Pintaras is still a construction company in every aspect. It derives almost all its revenue and profit from foundation works, and some from its metal fabrication work. It only invested its excess funds in the equity market with a fund manager. Yeah, I agree with you 100% that excess fund should be distributed to shareholders but management thinks differently. I won't say we are definitely right. Appended below is the opinion of another investor which I have posted before in this thread for your information.

“I am a shareholder of Pintaras Jaya since 2008 and decided to attend their AGM last year as I wanted to get a "feel" on the major shareholders and management. So far, I have no real issues with the way they have managed the so-called "excess cash". This is a conservatively run company, the Tan Chong/Oriental style of management who would only turn to borrowings as a last resort. As their core competencies are in piling work, there is a need to invest in machinery that cost millions and the management choose to invest using their cash reserves. As a mid-sized "family controlled" construction company, Pintaras has so far been quite fair to minority shareholders, declaring steady, increasing dividends, especially in the last 3 years. Also, there are minimal Related Party Transactions.”

I don't think there is any political issue with Pintaras like what you have said. They don't get job through political connections. They have good relationship with developers. They can deliver. I know that because I was working in the same type of jobs before, in foundation works. Regarding your point that the valuation is relative high, I shouldn't have said that you are wrong too. It is just that I have a totally opposite opinion. For a company earning 53 sen per share last year and having an excess cash of RM1.68 per share, its market price of RM3.00 is dirt cheap to me, don't you think so? I agree with you also some companies privatize their companies and didn't pay minority shareholders fairly. However it is not easy to short-change minority shareholders. There is this minority shareholder watchdog and others. Their appointed investment bank also would not buy that so easily too.

Posted by GCruey > 2013-02-18 22:30 | Report Abuse

My political issue refers to the securities investment ( we don't know the fund invest in local or foreign market), if invested major in the local market then the election sure more or less effect the performance. The constrution business i don't think it would be impact much by political issues because have same view like u. Anyway, like to meet the mature and smart investor like u. Any other, good counters to share? I like Jobstreet, Willow, Csccenic, Innity. How ab u?

Posted by daen > 2013-02-19 10:25 | Report Abuse

baru saja lapor laporan kewangan - merosot.

mesti kena didenda, rasa-rasa ada peluang untuk masuk pada yang harga lebih murah nanti, lebih-lebih lagi PR13 dalam masa terdekat.

bersedia la ja

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-23 09:42 | Report Abuse

Pintaras just announced its 2nd financial quarter results. the Group recorded a lower revenue and profit before taxation of RM36.0 million and RM10.6 million, representing a decrease of 18% and 44% respectively compared to the preceding quarter. This reduction was mainly due to lower contribution from both the construction and manufacturing divisions.
This shows that Gcruey was right that job awards for Pintaras has slowed down substantially in this quarter. Earnings per share (EPS) from its ordinary business decreased substantially from 16.2 sen to 10.0 sen , one of the lowest for the last few quarters. Accordingly, its share price has dropped to RM2.80 as on 22nd February, 2013. Is that a serious concern?
The table below shows its EPS of its ordinary business for the last 6 years.
Year 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007
Revenue, m 185.2 125.9 105.7 130.3 165.4 147.4
Net profit, m 42.1 25.7 20.7 16.1 26.3 20.4
Net profit margin 23% 20% 20% 12% 16% 14%
EPS (sen) 53 32 26 20 33 25
It can be seen that except for last year, the last quarter EPS of 10 sen , if annualized to 40 sen, is still higher than all the rest and the average of 27 sen for the last 7 years. At RM2.80, or a PE ratio of 7.0, is Pintaras expensive, not forgetting that it now has an excess cash of RM1.32 per share (up from RM1.05)? As a matter of fact, one shouldn’t just look at individual quarterly result (and not even one or two years results) and jumps to the conclusion that if a company is facing problem in its future performance. One should look at its long-term trend and its operational efficiencies.
In terms of cash flow, the two quarters CFFO has in fact increased from 22m to 36m, or 45 sen per share. After utilizing some money for capital expenses of 5.8m, Free cash flow amounts to a robust 30m, for just two quarters. This FCF was used in distribution of good dividends (6m), investing in equity market (4m net), or left in the banks. What about its future prospect? Below is the management Review:
“Our low balance of work in hand is some cause for concern. Some timing issues of new projects and selection of jobs for tender appear to have affected our securing of new projects. Nevertheless, we are still optimistic our order book will be adequately replenished in the coming months. The construction industry as a whole remains robust and is expected to be even more vibrant after the 13th General Election. “
So am I worried about my investment in Pintaras. When a China Apek, straightforward engineer/ major shareholder (Dr Chiu) mention about his confidence in its future prospect, I have no worries at all.

Posted by iafx > 2013-02-23 13:07 | Report Abuse

for readers who do not waste time reading long bs:

18/2/2013 ptaras announced recorded lower revenue and profit before taxation of RM36.0 million and RM10.6 million, representing a decrease of 18% and 44%

overall remains intact, however current pricing is way too expensive.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-23 13:17 | Report Abuse

Posted by iafx > Feb 23, 2013 01:07 PM | Report Abuse
for readers who do not waste time reading long bs:

ME: ME BS AGAIN? YOU HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO A SINGLE OF MY QUESTIONNAIRES TO YOU AT 10.04PM, DATED 17 FEBRUARY 2013 YET WOH! PLEASE EXPLAIN TO READERS HOW DID I BULLSHIT, PLEASE!

18/2/2013 ptaras announced recorded lower revenue and profit before taxation of RM36.0 million and RM10.6 million, representing a decrease of 18% and 44%

ME: YOU COPYCAT FROM MY POST ABOVE AH? COPYCAT!

overall remains intact, however current pricing is way too expensive.

ME: PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE CURRENT PRICING IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. DON'T JUST SIMPLY SAY ONLY. SUBSTANTIATE WITH YOUR REASONING. ARE YOU USING PE RATIO, PRICE-TO-NTA, ENTERPRISE VALUE/EBITDA, DISCOUNT CASH FLOWS, OWNER'S EARNINGS, OR WHAT?

Posted by mk88 > 2013-02-23 17:43 | Report Abuse

business down, profit down

but company very lcly, not interested to tender for job though invited

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-23 19:13 | Report Abuse

mk88, you seem to know about Pintaras quite well. I guess you must be working in the developer's environment. You are right that they often are not interested to tender for job though invited. There must be reasons for that. Don't you think so? My previous post below may answer your question. As your comment of "business down, profit down", you may be right but my comments this morning differ from yours. It is just that we have different opinions. I respect yours.

Posted by kcchongnz > Dec 22, 2012 04:59 PM | Report Abuse X
tptan45, now you got the correct observation. Just another comment here. I think a lot of people pay too much attention to quarterly results. They got panic when revenue drop for a single quarter and excited when there is a sudden jump in a single quarter. To me this is just noise. Business turnover simply won't follow a smooth consistent upward curve. It will bounce between quarters, or even years. Important thing is its future business prospect, and its long-term upward trend. Take for example, construction revenue of a profit follows an S curve, slow progress initially because of mobilization, steep in the middle when things got smooth, and revenue tappers off at the end of the project. Actually for Pintaras, revenue is secondary because they just don't simply grab any project with risky and difficult ground conditions and low margin. They have the clout, being a specialist foundation contractor and the industrial connection and able to get good jobs at good margins, and manage them properly to yield the expected return. That is what is interesting about Pintaras.
Yes like you said they have some good forecast, knowing an Apek engineer like Dr Chiu won't simply project rosy pictures. And yes the impending huge increase in their paid up capital may provide a catalyst for a re-rating, I hope.

Posted by whkwoon > 2013-02-23 20:53 | Report Abuse

Construction business always up & down cannot be predicted, so timing is very importment, I never loss because it give good dividend every year. I bought around 15 years ago @3.80 and + bonus I still me some money I sold at 2.70 last year after that it never come down!!1.

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-23 23:59 | Report Abuse

pintaras is falling down, falling down... he he, under 2.47 the lowest within a year? no problem. under RM2?, no prob. under 1.50 ==> no prob , RM1.23 a day after GE +++> should be no prob, he he

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-02-24 03:42 | Report Abuse

anbz, why are you so happy that Pintaras share price drops? Because I have Pintaras shares? But why? Going down to RM1.23 after GE? I really don't know how to respond to you about this because you just don't know how to read income statement, balance sheet and cash flow statement. How to explain to you? Look at some of the posts you have written here:

[Feb 21, 2013 08:50 PM | Report Abuse
Mr Ooi why should it be to long? i'm so itchy to play other counters, a day without transaction or with little of it, makes my life less sweet, kidding Mr Ooi, though its true

Feb 21, 2013 07:22 PM | Report Abuse
may be tomorrow it will go up, considering all who played contra and bought 69 , 68 and 67 cents have cease fr this counter? i think i'am aiming 66 cents tomorrow.]

You treat Bursa just like Resort World Casino! What do you know about the "value" of an investment? You are a cynic, a man who seem to know the price of everything, and the value of nothing (Oscar Wilde). Please be reminded that if you gamble in the stock market, you really got to pray hard because your opponents are the market movers. But again, God won't help a gambler. He has a lot of other deserving people to help. But I don't know which God you believe, that you are so happy when others encounter misery, that the share price of their shares drops. My God is different. He tells me not to build happiness upon the miseries of others, especially the small time retail investors like you and me. Anyway, I am an investor, not a speculator. Investing, unlike gambling in the stock market, is not a zero sum game. I did comment on some stocks I don't believe in, such as KNM, Ivory, Patimas, Perisai etc. But my intentions were good, really. I was just raising the risks involved, hopefully to curb the cognitive bias of over-confidence of those retail investors; so that they are not eaten up by the sharks. I substantiate my comments with facts and figures, not wild statements with no substance. Read them, and you may learn something useful in investing. Good luck to you.

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-24 07:32 | Report Abuse

@kcchongnz ... why u're were so upset for my latest comments? don't prices of counters goes up and down in bursa. what's wrong for one whom don't have, to hope for the price of a certain counter to fall due to sentiment or negative condition, and snap it? is that wrong?

Posted by talk2pkc > 2013-02-24 07:45 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz, just ignore "anbz" n poitless to syn expertise & knowledge to his level , mahhhh ........... no time for "toddler" ha ha

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-24 07:56 | Report Abuse

@kcchongnz ... your words: My God is different. He tells me not to build happiness upon the miseries of others, especially the small time retail investors like you and me. Anyway, I am an investor, not a speculator. Investing, unlike gambling in the stock market, is not a zero sum game.
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no.1 now u're talking God again? u're the, the 1st between us to signal that there should be no any 'God'-related topic discussed. well u flip-flop? very clear

no.2 what do u expect a stocks go up and without falling? that why it is zero-sum related.

no.3 'not a zero-sum' game? do u really learn game theories/ mathematics? This is bursa, i thought u're a pro in stocks... and i have admit before, didn't me? If this bursa is not a zero-sum game... it is near to it, no doubt, don't deny.

no.4 u with your vast knowledge, still scared with my ('a gambler, now that's name calling me by u'- poor me) statements? it shows to me that u believe what i'm saying have some true in it--- may be most, didn't u?

no.5 : did i showed in my post with -solid proof- that i "build happiness upon the miseries of others"...? well, if it really tumble tumble little star down to RM 1.23 --- u never know, don't u/us?--- why don't u stay and refrain from selling, then it might goes up again to it highest price, so no misery to u.
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man i thougt i'm talking to an intelligent man, seems he believe in me more than himself? he he ... it's true guy, kcchongcz is scared now,
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i do not attack him, i'm just defending myself, so please others, don't do/(attack me) what kcchong did to me, read his post and mine, u'll understand whom are exaggerating one little comment.

Posted by anbz > 2013-02-24 08:06 | Report Abuse

announcement: KCCHONGNZ is now scared by Anbz statements about the probability for Pintaras to tumble to RM 1.23, well it's true kcchong felt threaten by anbz, whom he accused as a gambler.

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as if others are gamblers,& he is the INVESTOR , yeah right, an investor that claimed he still hold his counter no matter what price it goes down to... and he called himself an investor, and others opposite to his counters/opinions as gamblers.

Posted by talk2pkc > 2013-02-24 08:07 | Report Abuse

Noted n shall focus on my "nasi lemak" at Village Park Rest , best in Mysia , lohhh