Sslee

By the way if you like high growth, high ROE then have a look at Yinson with high borrowing too.
Expect this year Yinson' two FSPO delivered and will hit oil, next year another FSPO delivered and hit oil.

I just wonder why Yinson is paying more than double the US 5 Year Treasury Rate of 4.68%?

Is Yinson cannot get a normal USD loan from bank with lower interest rate than 9.625% to refinance the matured borrowing?

SINGAPORE, April 19, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Yinson Production Offshore Pte. Ltd. ("Yinson Production") is pleased to announce the successful placement of a USD 500 million senior secured bond issue with a 5-year tenor and a fixed coupon of 9.625% per annum in the Nordic bond market.
Yinson is paying more than double the US 5 Year Treasury Rate of 4.68%. Why?

5 Year Treasury Rate is at 4.68%, compared to 4.62% the previous market day and 3.71% last year. This is higher than the long term average of 3.75%.

The 5 Year Treasury Rate is the yield received for investing in a US government issued treasury security that has a maturity of 5 years

11 hours ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

Insas

Current Assets 1989 m
Total Liabilities 531 m
________________________

CA - TL = 1458 m

Market Cap = 663 m (@share price of RM 1)

Net-Net value 1458m - Market Cap 663 m = 795m

Therefore, you can take this company private, settle all the liabilities and still pocket RM 795 m cash.

Benjamin Graham loved such net-net companies. However, after 2 years of investing into these undervalued stocks, should they not perform, he sold them. There must be a reason for doing so? Probably, the opportunity costs for holding onto the non-performers.

Yes, Insas is severely undervalued. How do you capture the gains? When? (The story of Aesop as told by Buffett).

11 hours ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

Insas retains lots of cash. How good is it in allocating its capital?

Buffett's and Munger's forte is their capital allocation ability. They are just fantastic in allocating the excess capital to capture high rates of return for a long period.

10 hours ago

Sslee

Quarter end 31 March 2024 with disposal of 100 million M&A and 10 million Inari, insas will have more cash.

10 hours ago

stockraider

Base on the edge report Insas has about Rm 1.1b net cash....this work out to about Rm 1.50 net cash per share, very good opportunity to profit from this situation loh!

10 hours ago

TheContrarian

Despite that, Insas share price has gone downhill since end of March ..... classic case of a value trap.

10 hours ago

stockraider

U need to be value trap very big....b4 u can make veli veli veli big profit loh!

We are talking of big investment profit n not kucimiao trading profit mah!

The key...holding on & waiting for huge potential gain of stock with big potential like insas loh!

10 hours ago

TheContrarian

Four fold gain, four fold gain, hahaha.

10 hours ago

Sslee

3iii,
Do you know park under non-current assets: one of the associate company inari is worth how much?

Substantial Shareholder's Particular:
Name INSAS BERHAD
Details of Changes:
Currency -
Date of Change Type Number of Shares
24-Jan-2024 Disposed 1,000,000
Registered Name M & A Nominee (Asing) Sdn Bhd for Media Lang Limited
Nature of Interest Indirect Interest
23-Jan-2024 Disposed 2,000,000
Registered Name M & A Nominee (Asing) Sdn Bhd for Media Lang Limited
Nature of Interest Indirect Interest
22-Jan-2024 Disposed 2,000,000
Registered Name M & A Nominee (Asing) Sdn Bhd for Media Lang Limited
Nature of Interest Indirect Interest
Nature of Interest Indirect Interest
Shares Ordinary shares
Reason Disposal of shares in the open market
Total no of securities after change
Direct (units) 0
Direct (%) 0.00
Indirect (units) 527,008,575
Indirect (%) 14.06
Total (units) 527,008,575
Total (%) 14.06
Date of Notice 26-Jan-2024


Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > Apr 20, 2024 12:21 PM | Report Abuse

Insas
Current Assets 1989 m
Total Liabilities 531 m________________________
CA - TL = 1458 m

Market Cap = 663 m (@share price of RM 1)

Net-Net value 1458m - Market Cap 663 m = 795m

Therefore, you can take this company private, settle all the liabilities and still pocket RM 795 m cash.

10 hours ago

TheContrarian

Not so long ago at one stage during a stock market crisis Insas temporarily dropped to below 40 sen. At that time Thong could have proposed a Selective Capital Repayment at RM1 to take it private. He could if he wanted to privatize Insas but he didn't, he doesn't, he wouldn't.

9 hours ago

speakup

U can see the money
but you cant take the money

9 hours ago

Sslee

Any takevover by Thong will be a futile attemp because once the BOD appointed an independent advisor to advice shareholders to accept or reject the offer based on is the offer fair and reasonable.

The conclusion is forgone: offer is not fair and not reasonable and advise to reject the offer.

8 hours ago

Sslee

If Thong is smart he should table a MGO waiver for Insas to do SBB. By doing SBB automatically his and his PAC holding will increase beyond 33% and 4 year later might excess 50%

8 hours ago

TheContrarian

Thong is a former stockbroker, he knows the rules, don't doubt that he isn't smart. He wants to keep Insas share price down.

8 hours ago

TheContrarian

This article first appeared as "Insas’ controlling shareholders may seek a waiver" in The Edge Malaysia Weekly, on June 24, 2019 - June 30, 2019.



THE controlling shareholders of Insas Bhd, Datuk Seri Thong Kok Khee and his brother Datuk Thong Kok Yun, are said to be mulling seeking a waiver from making a general offer for the company if they decide to convert the company’s warrants in February next year.

Such article will be repeated from time to time drawing more water fish into buying Insas.

8 hours ago

Sslee

Thong and PAC cannot buy any Insas share from open market without trigger the 33% MGO threshold.

So he is just a bystander watching insas share price up and down. Anyway whether the share price up or down do not affect him financially.

8 hours ago

Tatooine

I also queue at 40 cents.. Thong knows what he is doing and that is screwing over the shareholders. “ Insas is a family business masquerading as a public company” Thong is milking cash out of insas and other subsidiary companies. Be it fees, land etc he is making lots of money and that is why he pays the board well to keep quiet. Only way to make money in insas if you want to is buy and sell …

8 hours ago

TheContrarian

Leno stuck in Insas 15 years gained no monetary benefits, Ah Thong stuck in Insas 15 years got received salary, bonus, Inari ESOS plan, meeting allowance, driver allowance, pet cat allowance etc.

7 hours ago

speakup

Thank u Leno for Sell Call 1.20 level
Speakup wanted hold for Double Bagger but good thing listen to sifu Leno

7 hours ago

TheContrarian

The smarter ones sold at 1.30 level.

6 hours ago

TheContrarian

Btw speakup, someone is trolling you at Jayatiasa forum.

6 hours ago

BLee

“3i> Insas
Current Assets 1989 m
Total Liabilities 531 m
________________________

CA - TL = 1458 m

Market Cap = 663 m (@share price of RM 1)

Net-Net value 1458m - Market Cap 663 m = 795m

Therefore, you can take this company private, settle all the liabilities and still pocket RM 795 m cash.”

Never thought can calc Net-Net value this way? Impressive?
Since Market Cap is a ‘moving target’, how sure can ‘sapu’ all at RM1?
Only the cash portion in CA sure if..(not suggesting anything), how much ‘others’ CA can turn into cash easily? The ‘if’ makes share investing interesting. I will keep my zero cost holding, not worrying it will fall below RM1, happy Trading and TradeAtYourOwnRisk

5 hours ago

TheContrarian

Ya, ya, hostile takeover isn't practical, once it's leaked out the price will go limit up. The most practical is Thong himself trigger a MGO by exercising all his warrants at 90 sen. But at 90 sen takeover price who wants to sell their Insas?

5 hours ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

Net Net Working Capital Formula – Further Analysis and Discussion:
Net Net Working Capital is a subset of Graham’s Net Working Capital is a subset of Net Working Capital (also known as Working Capital).
1) Net Working Capital = Current Assets – Current Liabilities
2) Graham’s Net Working Capital = Current Assets – Total Liabilities
3) Net Net Working Capital = Cash + Short Term Marketable Investments + Accounts Receivable * 75% + Inventory * 50% – Total Liabilities
Note that the results of each formula are presented in a decreasing order. That is to say Net Net Working Capital will provide the lowest and hence, most conservative, value. In other words, all else being equal, of the three formulas above, a stock trading below Net N et Working Capital provides the investor with the largest margin of safety.
Value investing is about buying a stock at a sufficient discount to intrinsic value. Graham’s “Net Working Capital” or the “Net Net Working Capital” formulas can be used as preliminary screens to identify potentially undervalued stocks or deep value stocks.11

5 hours ago

TheContrarian

Isn't Graham dead?

5 hours ago

Sslee

Know what IBs analyst value capA ( A PN17 and insolvent company with negative billion in net current assets, negative billion equity and billion in debts)?

Why bother with all those white man formula? Dead or alive.

I once wrote:
Definition: Intrinsic value is the Present value of the investment of all the expected cash flow over the lifetime discounted at the appropriate discount rate.

Intrinsic value = (CF1/ (1+d)^1) + (CF2/(1+d)^2) + ----- +(CFn/(1+d)^n)

Where:
CF = Cash Flow in the Period
d = Discount rate
n = The period number
This Intrinsic value is actually a Discounted Cash Flow (DCF)
Example of intrinsic value of INSAS is then the Sum of DCF expected cash flow from varies business streams.
For INSAS assets rich case, it is my opinion that the liquid assets minus total liabilities should be added to this intrinsic value.

4 hours ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

>>>

Net Net Working Capital Formula – Further Analysis and Discussion:

Net Net Working Capital is a subset of Graham’s Net Working Capital and this is itself a subset of Net Working Capital (also known as Working Capital).

1) Net Working Capital = Current Assets – Current Liabilities

2) Graham’s Net Working Capital = Current Assets – Total Liabilities

3) Net Net Working Capital = Cash + Short Term Marketable Investments + Accounts Receivable * 75% + Inventory * 50% – Total Liabilities

Note that the results of each formula are presented in a decreasing order. That is to say Net Net Working Capital will provide the lowest and hence, most conservative, value.

In other words, all else being equal, of the three formulas above, a stock trading below Net Net Working Capital provides the investor with the largest margin of safety.

Value investing is about buying a stock at a sufficient discount to intrinsic value. Graham’s “Net Working Capital” or the “Net Net Working Capital” formulas can be used as preliminary screens to identify potentially undervalued stocks or deep value stocks.

>>>


Even when using the net working capital or net-net working capital, Benjamin Graham still demanded a margin of safety, buying only when the market price is at least 30% below these values.

3 hours ago

Sslee

Is 3iii saying those buying capA must be mad and silly gambler?

Value investing is about buying a stock at a sufficient discount to intrinsic value. Graham’s “Net Working Capital” or the “Net Net Working Capital” formulas can be used as preliminary screens to identify potentially undervalued stocks or deep value stocks.
>>>

Even when using the net working capital or net-net working capital, Benjamin Graham still demanded a margin of safety, buying only when the market price is at least 30% below these values.

3 hours ago

TheContrarian

Aiyaa, don't know why you two want to debate. I still stick to my method buy cheaply, sell highly, repeat and make many fold gains.

3 hours ago

TheContrarian

MrSslee, I want you to take note of this. If Thong exercise all his warrants at 90 sen he will instantly increase his shareholding in the the enlarged capital of Insas to approximately 42.5%. He is obliged to make a MGO at 90 sen but even if no one accepts the offer, Thong still will end up with 42.5%.

3 hours ago

TheContrarian

Insas setting such a low warrant exercise price of 90 sen greatly benefited Thong.

3 hours ago

TheContrarian

I doubt that most people understand what I am saying here. This is one reason why Insas price always drift down back. There's absolutely no reason for Thong to push up share price of Insas. He can get them so cheap at 90 sen at any time he chooses.

3 hours ago

xiaoeh

use simple terms TheContrarian...
if u unable to describe it in simple terms mean u yourself not fully understand what u r saying....
no angry, no hard feelings, no offence...

3 hours ago

TheContrarian

Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett, George Soros and whoever out there wouldn't understand what I am saying. Only Thong knows this.

3 hours ago

TheContrarian

Thong and PAC have 218 million shares and 112 million warrants. Do your own calculation. It's simple Maths.

2 hours ago

Sslee

RI of RPS with free warrant is a way to reward shareholder and as a same time for Thong and PAC to hold the warrant as a defensive move against any attempt of hostile takeover.

2 hours ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

>>>
Sslee

Is 3iii saying those buying capA must be mad and silly gambler?

>>>

Games people play. These are: positive sum games, negative sum games and zero sum games. Know how to play each of these games.

Important to choose the games you wish to play.

Know the probability of success and probability of failure of the game you wish to play. In investing, this is the upside:downside ratio. Even more importantly, is to understand the consequence of the various outcomes from the game.

In Russian roulette, the gun has 1 bullet and the probability of being killed by the bullet is 1:6. Given the consequence of the outcome, one will choose not to play even though the probability may be in your "favour". 😀

Play the game with the highest probability of success (upside:downside of > 3:1) and with a high probability of big rewards (e.g. compounding at >15% per year over 5 years, that is doubling every 5 years).

Stay inactive, observe and learn most of the time. Act decisively and courageously when opportunity presents.

2 hours ago

Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥

In some listed company, the insiders make more money from the fluctuations of the share prices than from the business profits and dividends.

2 hours ago

Sslee

On Feb 2026 if Insas is below 90 sen then Thong and PAC can collect all WC not already owned by them at 0.5 sen and then convert all the WC to insas. What will be Thong and PAC holding % of Insas then?

Posted by TheContrarian > Apr 20, 2024 8:26 PM | Report Abuse
Thong and PAC have 218 million shares and 112 million warrants. Do your own calculation. It's simple Maths

2 hours ago

Sslee

No worries, I will make jayatiasa and insas my top 2 in my portfolio.

2 hours ago

Sslee

By now you should know why Thong refuse to give fair and reasonable dividend and distribute retained profit as special dividend.

2 hours ago

TheContrarian

Posted by Sslee > 19 minutes ago | Report Abuse

On Feb 2026 if Insas is below 90 sen then Thong and PAC can collect all WC not already owned by them at 0.5 sen and then convert all the WC to insas. What will be Thong and PAC holding % of Insas then?


Approximately 55.2% of the enlarged share capital.

1 hour ago

TheContrarian

I think this is Thong's last chance to increase his shareholding via the exercising the warrants route. It's going to be difficult to justice another round of RPS with free warrants again because Insas is hoarding so much cash and M&A Equity Holdings has already been listed.

1 hour ago

speakup

Sifu Leno probably sold 1.30
U cannot sell higher than a Sifu

1 hour ago

TheContrarian

speakup, don't make us all laugh at you. Hahahahahahaha 🤣

1 hour ago

TheContrarian

KUALA LUMPUR (July 9): Insas Bhd is planning to raise up to RM132.6 million from a renounceable rights issue of redeemable preference shares (rights RPS) with free detachable warrants to repay its bridging loans.

In a filing with Bursa Malaysia, the group said the rights issue involves up to 132.6 million new redeemable preference shares at an issue price of RM1 per rights RPS, together with 331.51 million new free detachable warrants on a basis of two rights RPS and five warrants for every 10 shares.

The tenure of the rights RPS is five years and it has a dividend rate of 3.8% per annum based on the issue price of the rights RPS.

When Insas issued the RPS it was done with so much warrants (5 : 2 ratio) attached. Obviously Thong benefited the most from this.

1 hour ago

speakup

Must shoe polish Sifu mah

1 hour ago

xiaoeh

Mr Leno will sell at only RM6 KAMBING....
unless under certain unforeseen circumstances that Mr Leno needed cash in urgency...
what do u think Speakup...

1 hour ago

TheContrarian

Insas-WC will expire in 22 months. How will Insas shares be played out until then? What is Thong's game plan?

51 minutes ago

TheContrarian

Posted by Sslee > 1 hour ago | Report Abuse

On Feb 2026 if Insas is below 90 sen then Thong and PAC can collect all WC not already owned by them at 0.5 sen and then convert all the WC to insas.

Assuming that this takes place, there will be instant dilution of the NTA of Insas. And the losers will be the minority shareholders.

44 minutes ago