Icon8888 Gossips About Stocks
(Icon) My View On Robertl's Reportings
Blogger Robertl recently attracted a lot of attention.
Last week, he published an article to describe Xinquan's operation in China.
I actually complimented him for his works. The Xinquan case if proven to be true, will have dire consequence on its shareholders. It needs to be addressed / clarified, not something to be swept under the carpet under the pretext of maintaining harmony.
These few days, he published two articles about Hevea. One talked about the internal feud among Board members, the other talked about Hevea's containers getting stuck in Korea.
This round, I am not so sure that what he did is correct.
Both Hevea articles shared one common feature - they generated big hoo hah in the initial hours, but as calmness returned, many people realize that the issue was not as threatening as it looked :-
(a) The Boardroom dispute is indeed ugly, but is it of iceberg proportion that it can sink a Titanic ? Based on my experience, Public Listed Companies are usually quite resilient. This is because they are institutionalised. Most of the time, they operate on auto pilot basis. Board room disagreement very seldom will lead to massive shareholder value destruction.
So far, a more serious case is Kian Joo. Internal dispute ultimately resulted in the family losing control to Can One. I believe there are also Boardroom disagreement in many other PLCs. Those PLCs continue to function as normal even though the disputes had been kept away from the eye of the public. Is there really a need to reveal all these information to the public ? What benefit does that create ?
One point raised by Robertl was that the relevant Court cases had not been made known to Bursa. If those cases indeed exist and they failed to announce them, it is a breach of Bursa regulation. I don't dispute the notion that it is bad corporate governance. But again, I don't think it is life threatening either. The Directors will properly get fined few hundred thousand Ringgit and very soon the issue will be forgotten and investors will shift their attention to other more important issues.
What I am trying to say is that there is no need to be overzealous about corporate governance. Severe cases such as frauds and theft should not be tolerated. But it is impractical to insist that everything has to be squeaky clean. Top people in PLCs will sometime do dodgy things. But most of the time, it won't lead to massive shareholder value destruction. There is no need to vigilante against every case. We are not in a temple or church.
(b) I am not sure whether the Korea issue is real (the PLC will likely come up with a statement later today). Even if it is real, is it so life threatening that it has to be made known to the public in such a fashion ? According to other forum members, Hevea only derived 7% of its revenue from Korea.
Even if the amount is bigger and the impact is more severe, it is nothing more than an OPERATIONAL ISSUE. Things like that happen EVERYDAY in many many other PLCs. That is part of business. Nobody airs them out in public forum like this. The common practice is for the PLCs to quietly work on the problem and disclose it in the quarterly report (if necessary), as part of earnings discussion. Investors will take note of the issue, make the necessary adjustment to their portfolio and move on with life.
Concluding Remarks
As a blogger, I too write articles. But I am always careful not to write something that will cause share price to tank, unless the case is really severe that it warrants such a move.
Many investors have their hard earned money parked in the market. We should take that into consideration before we publish anything that will have adverse impact on share price.
Many investors reacted to the articles by cashing out of Hevea. Some forego future profit, some incur losses. If later Hevea share price recovers, many of these investors will turn out to have made a mistake.
This kind of thing is complicated, it is best we try to keep their occurence to a minimum.
In this world, many evil things are done under the name of freedom of speech, balanced views, promoting good corporate governance, and other lofty principles. Very often, they do more harm than good.
We should be vigilant against the vigilante.
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Discussions
15 people like this. Showing 43 of 43 comments
as moral support for Hevea shareholders, I bout 10,000 Hevea WB just now at 1.34
will take profit to eat KFC, if it goes up
2016-01-07 11:35
Dear Icon8888, your effort in writing out an article to response to that claim with good intention earned my respect. Your ideas teach good lessons, especially to those self-interested bloggers. Bravo! Your articles a must read to me. But I do not feel well seeing those headlines with empty idea published here, especially those with just graphs and/or few words calling to buy/sell, or baseless claims of certain events like takeover offer, privatization, etc. Anyway, I respect their rights, as they are allowed to do so.
2016-01-07 12:20
BOD should only fight for the company business to be better, they lead the direction of company. Not fighting among themselves. If they fight for pieces of cakes, would they give any good pieces to investors? No Way. Watch out.
2016-01-07 13:05
Haiyah, Rob earth main target is Hevea rupanya, he wrongly pick Hevea ciz Hevea got bunch of royalty supporter (got fatty water) , any twisted fact that pressed down o Hevra will Spring bacj quick. But, he is blindly folded by aking the side thought will favor to his interest. Wrong wrong wrong, Rob earth dont under estimate readers here, they hv sufus here to lead. 乖啦 go back press down on Xinquan ; but, it will not spring back like Hevea do lor. Kikiki
2016-01-07 13:12
perfect storm, ha ha
sharktank think hevea think China circuit breaker. : )
07/01/2016 13:06
2016-01-07 13:33
they are human beings loh..
Beza BOD should only fight for the company business to be better, they lead the direction of company. Not fighting among themselves.
07/01/2016 13:05
2016-01-07 13:34
Icon8888,Good to inform. Seems a kind of "modus operandi" in work....targeting those big holders.
2016-01-07 18:38
In Malaysia, BOD only care about their own interest.
Unless, the BOD is not the major share holder and the company lead by sifu.
Then this will not have direct impact to their controlling company interest. Only then the management will focus on Direction of company.
2016-01-07 23:50
Top people in PLCs will sometime do dodgy things. But most of the time, it won't lead to massive shareholder value destruction. There is no need to vigilante against every case. We are not in a temple or church.
Are you suggesting that if the top people swindled or do funny things, if it doesn't hurt the company big time (won't lead to massive shareholders value destruction, in your own word) , it is ok?
2016-01-08 08:05
Also, according to Ooi Teck bee's posting that the management of hevea has replied him that both the court cases and the 700 containers issues exist, what would you comment on hevea's handling of negative informations from public knowledge?
2016-01-08 08:08
Roberti articles are eye opening and interesting/explosive
..its up to the plc company to address these concerns/revelation
If they kept quiet , logically they are hiding something from the public
2016-01-08 08:15
Leno told u all alredi ... this Robert Ludlum is for real. Look at her way of writing. She is not writing from what she think or imagine like a lot of blogger do. Other blogger think this and that. Imagine things up. But not our Robert Ludlum. She don't even bother to defend anything because she just simply reveal information. REAL information. Keep it up Robert Ludlum and Thank you.
2016-01-08 08:27
I don't advocate any wrong doing
but believe in striking a balance between upholding moral value and minimising market confusion
to help decision making, "whether it will result in massive shareholder value destruction" can be a useful yardstick
======
Are you suggesting that if the top people swindled or do funny things, if it doesn't hurt the company big time (won't lead to massive shareholders value destruction, in your own word) , it is ok?
08/01/2016 08:05
icon8888 Top people in PLCs will sometime do dodgy things. But most of the time, it won't lead to massive shareholder value destruction. There is no need to vigilante against every case. We are not in a temple or church.
2016-01-08 08:45
why are you asking me questions that the answers I have provided in the article ?
=====
talkrealreal Also, according to Ooi Teck bee's posting that the management of hevea has replied him that both the court cases and the 700 containers issues exist, what would you comment on hevea's handling of negative informations from public knowledge?
08/01/2016 08:08
2016-01-08 08:50
As revealed, it is not 700 containers...just 700 cubic metre (m3)...which is equivalent about 35000 pieces of 1cm particle board. Anyway it had been resolved due to some testing error at Korea side. Small matter. If 700 containers, it will be huge news in the net but you cant find anything there. Those who got Korean friends can ask them to check and they will find nothing as well.
2016-01-08 08:51
agree with imoogi99
well, if Robertl got his information wrong, then what is the merit of publishing that report ? who will gain ? those investors that panic and sell based on wrong info ?
as I say above, we shouldn't tolerate wrong doing, but must be mindful of the negative consequence our writing will bring about
don't write something negative unless you have a robust case
stock market is a giant information processing machine. Your words will have significant impact on others.
tread carefully
imoogi99 As revealed, it is not 700 containers...just 700 cubic metre (m3)...which is equivalent about 35000 pieces of 1cm particle board. Anyway it had been resolved due to some testing error at Korea side. Small matter. If 700 containers, it will be huge news in the net but you cant find anything there. Those who got Korean friends can ask them to check and they will find nothing as well.
2016-01-08 09:01
You're just jealous of another writer's popularity. Get a life and focus on picking winning stocks
2016-01-08 10:17
Not jealous lah, my world very big...
Making money is more important, the others are all bull shit
The main reason I voice out is because I want to fight the unhealthy trend of launching attacks on stocks
I think it will cause more harm than good
but if the case very fishy (such as Xinquan), I don't mind supporting Robertl... (where got jealous ?)
2016-01-08 10:22
whether Hevea is just a shooting star, or a real winner for their loyal shareholders...only time will tell
2016-01-08 10:26
Thank you Mr Icon8888...frank and honest.....welcome such opinions as it actually clarifies more than critcises....i read 13 daily and i dont get taken by everything written...i do my homework too....i feel Icon is one of those few writers and commentors whom i respect and enjoy reading his comments and views...any shares you touch will always be at your own risk...we are all keen to make money but we shud not blame any one here..its your money and you invest and take the risks involved...
2016-01-08 13:23
Icon8888 I don't advocate any wrong doing
but believe in striking a balance between upholding moral value and minimising market confusion
to help decision making, "whether it will result in massive shareholder value destruction" can be a useful yardstick
======
Are you suggesting that if the top people swindled or do funny things, if it doesn't hurt the company big time (won't lead to massive shareholders value destruction, in your own word) , it is ok?
08/01/2016 08:05
icon8888 Top people in PLCs will sometime do dodgy things. But most of the time, it won't lead to massive shareholder value destruction. There is no need to vigilante against every case. We are not in a temple or church.
08/01/2016 08:45
====> upholding moral value and minimizing market confusion? Wouldn't it be the near job of religious preacher? Come on, we are in a dog eat dog environment!
2016-01-09 09:25
The 700m3 containers explanation from the management to Ooi Teck bee is
1) not correct, because it is only 18 containers (as each standard container is 39 m3). This doesn't warrant the MD and an ED to fly to Korea urgently
2) why didn't hevea come forward to clarify
3) it can also be otb hearsay, unless he shows us the email
In real life, the near 12% shares price slide (on 6/1 it was $1.79 shortly before the first bad news out) have shown that the shareholders walks. This couple with the huge volumes (>10m) is the best fact
2016-01-09 09:41
At first, when i read xinquan article from roberti, it looked interesting. When re-look second time, a question come out, what is the difference of it if compared to some baseless shouting forum news in China forums? Yeah, they look alike.
At the moment he published heave news, i think I know what he is aiming. Though I did not have any shares in Hevea, i don't like the tactics.
Icon, good job & support your view, giving statement without verification & supporting evidence is loser's acts.
2016-01-09 10:35
There is a saying: there will no wave if there is no wind. Look at homeritz or its peer,evergreen. No news is good news
2016-01-09 10:37
Whatever it is i wont sell at this price level until QR is out. By which time if there is any material impact on the cost it will be reflected. If no impact i will continue to keep.
2016-01-09 10:46
My posts from a similiar thread @ Hevea
My Feb TP for this stock is RM2.00. The year to year cost increased due to fx. Surprising because for xport counter this usually is opposite. In hevea case is because of USD denominated loans. This year they are decreasing these costs at a rapid rate and by CNY should retest RM2.00. This coupled with higher sales and drop and ringgit/USD will be + signals. If the USD denominated loans are being wipeout and equipment upgraded where else can the price go ... ?
I suspect the old timers KYY, OTB ..et al were aware and the run up started to happen ... until some stoopid jackass of a blogger decided to equate Hevea with another "made in PRC" crap of a company
Naturally some jittery investors did the knee jerk reaction expecting the downside trend in % terms to follow the XingQ PRC (non existent dividend co after 5 years but claim war chest of RMB1.2 )... but guess what ? Hevea not following suit.
Also IMHO goreng kaki not even going to see RM1.30 lah in the initial frightening rumour... The support shown these last few days proved it in a crazy market. Next week going to ding dong around RM1.57-RM1.65 before shooting upwards for good. After that i expect some nice red packet for CNY even though i am not a Chinese. he he
2016-01-09 11:57
ks55, mind if you can give your invaluable comment on my article here:
(SuperMan 99) Cypark Resources Bhd - Paper Profits, Cash Flow & Future Profits
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/hardworkeasylifesuperman99/85251.jsp
2016-01-09 13:56
Adverse comment is acceptable as long as with right attitude & reasonable facts or relevant calculation. I strongly believe that discussions will enable us to know more info or details that we may have overlooked or do not know.
But sometimes you will always see irresponsible or ridiculous baseless comments or jokes, like the following sample:
"So? That day my clients order 10. Audi, 10 volswagen passat cc. They all top insurance agents"
2016-01-09 14:15
Icon is always seeing this kind of comments, pity you, Icon.
When things turn up to Icon's prediction, all the jokers disappeared.
When things turn up to against Icon's projection or forecast, they will say:" SEE, I TOLD YOU ALREADY!"
2016-01-09 14:19
superman i think you also kena shoot by people for your articles... blogger very cham...
2016-01-09 16:16
I learn from you, now have to always wear bullet proof jacket, mainly wait for the plane to shut...hahaha
2016-01-12 17:36
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Icon8888, so far nobody post any details about the litigation. We have no details what it is all about. If it is something related to unlawful dismissal, then really small matters.
In addition, if HEVEA is in defense of the litigation, then it is not right for HEVEA not to report this in BURSA. However, if it is SHAREHOLDER of HEVEA in defense of the litigation, then HEVEA does not need to file this to BURSA.
If price drop enough, I may consider buying!
2016-01-07 11:31