kcchongnz blog
Heveaboard Berhad: From an ugly duckling to a beautiful swan kcchongnz
Heveaboard’s share price shot up to a peak of RM1.73 on 5 January 2016, and finally retreated to close at RM1.18 on 27th May 2016. The gain to date is a whopping 410% in less than three years.
What causes the spike of its share price? Is it still worth investing?
Company Business
HeveaBoard Berhad engages in the manufacture and trading of particle board. The company also produces rubber wood based particleboard and manufactures 'Ready-To-Assemble' (RTA) furniture. It also manufactures furniture for home and office applications. The company's furniture components are used for manufacturing dining sets, speaker boxes, door manufacturing, and office systems. The company markets its products in China, Vietnam, India, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Philippines, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, Africa, France, and United States, with Japan its biggest export market.
Hevea has gradually shifted its particleboard product range from conventional to higher value low-emission eco-friendly products which serve higher-tier customers, resulted in higher revenue and profit margin for the company. HEVEA has also made substantial capital expenses in its ready to assemble sector for FY13 & FY14 to the tune of RM20m in order to achieve higher automation and wider range of higher value product diversifications.
I first wrote about Hevea just three years ago when its adjusted share price was just 23.5 sen apiece, together with other furniture stocks as appended in the link below.
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/66908.jsp
All those furniture companies mentioned in the article, including Hevea were performing very well with high return on capitals and selling dirt cheap with low single digit price-earnings ratios and enterprise value (EV) with respect to their earnings before interest and tax (Ebit) at that time.
With its explosive earnings the last couple of years, Hevea’s earnings per share (EPS) has increased by four folds from 4.2 sen in 2012 to 16.9 sen for FY ended 31st December 2015, coupled with the subsequent expansion of its valuation, its share price shot up like a rocket. What has happened?
Financial Performance and position
For the past 10 years, Hevea’s revenue has been increasing steadily from RM148m in 2005 to RM503m in 2015, or a good compounded annual growth rate (CAGR) of 13% as shown in Table 1 in the appendix. Net profit increased by a much higher CAGR of 23% from RM9.1m in 2005 to RM73.8m for the year ended 31 December 2015. Thanks to the spike of its net profit margin to 14.7%, a historical high due to the drop in oil price and hence its main cost in resin, not because of the strengthening of USD against Ringgit in the past as most people think as it was having a high loan denominated in USD.
The great growth story of Hevea was accompanied with some hardship tough. From 2005 to 2007, it spent a huge amount of capital expenses to the tune of RM250m and incurring interest expenses of more than RM13m a year. It couldn’t even earn enough to pay for this interest. Just when the roof was leaking, the rain not only fell, but it poured, when the US subprime housing crisis hit hard world-wide soon after that in 2008 and Hevea went into first time losses. Hevea was at the brink of bankruptcy when it owed bankers RM225m in debts when its share price dropped to just a few sen.
Thanks for the swift recovery of the US and the world-wide markets, Hevea was making increasing profit soon after from RM18.9m in 2009 to RM73.8m for the last financial year. Free cash flows (FCF) have improved by leaps and bounds to RM140m from a huge negative of RM100m in 2005 as shown in Figure 1 below. This FCF now amounts to a whopping 27% of revenue and 47% of its invested capital. What a great cash generating machine!
The precarious financial position of Hevea with a huge debt of RM225m in 2007 has turned into a net cash position of RM66.6m for the most recent financial year.
With this healthy balance sheet and excellent FCF, Hevea, which has not been paying much dividend, but instead doing the right thing by paying down debts, has started to pay dividends now for FY2015.
The return on equity and invested capitals, both of which are my favourite metrics to measure “goodness” of a company, have both shot up to 22%, way above its costs.
A good company is not necessary a good investment. It all depend on what the offer price is, in relation to its value. That is why FA practitioners always carry out some valuations to have a feel of the value of the company, and hence to compare with its price.
“The success of investing is not from buying something good, but from buying something right.”
Some Simple Valuation of Hevea
Table 2 below shows some simple valuation metrics for Hevea with its closing price of RM1.18 on 27th May 2016.
Table 2: Some simple valuation metrics for Hevea
The attractiveness of investing in Hevea is its cheap market valuation as shown in Table 2 above. Despite its high return on capitals, stable earnings and good cash flows, its market valuations are all below some relatively stringent benchmarks. The enterprise value of just 5.2 times its earnings before interest and tax, or earnings yield of 19.1%, is particularly attractive. The cash yield (FCF/P) of Hevea, using the average FCF of last 5 years, of more than 10%, double that of my requirement of 5%, is befitting to be a No-Brainer investment.
Let us carry out a discounted cash flow analysis of Hevea using a conservative model to get a feel of its value to compare with its price.
Gordon Constant Growth Model (GCGM) for Hevea
The Gordon growth model is a model for determining the intrinsic value of a stock, based on a future series of free cash flows that grow at a constant rate in perpetuity, the model solves for the present value of the infinite series of future free cash flows. Here we value the enterprise value of entire firm, and then add its excess cash and then deduct the total debts. We will also use the Black-Scholes Option Pricing Model to estimate the value of its outstanding warrants to be deducted from the equity value.
This is quite a conservative valuation method by ignoring any super normal growth, and assume the company has become matured and its revenue and earnings are growing according to rate of inflation. Besides the 5-year average FCF of RM53.5m is used for the initial FCF, instead of the high FCF of RM135m for the most recent year.
The formula for the GCGM is as shown,
FCFF= FCF0 * (1+G) / (WACC-G)
Where,
FCFF is the free cash flows for the firm
FCF0 = Normalized Free cash flows for this year using the average of the past 5 years FCF
G = Constant growth
WACC= Weighted average cost of capital of the whole firm
Table 3 in the Appendix shows the computation of WACC to be 9.44%.
Table 4 shows the step-by step calculation of the intrinsic value of Hevea. After obtaining the enterprise value of the firm, the excess cash is added, total debts and option value of warrants holder deducted to get the present value of FCF due to equity shareholder in the amount of RM952m, or RM2.18 per share. The margin of safety in investing in Hevea at RM1.18 is at 46% as shown.
Hevea first quarter 2016 results
Hevea Board reported its first quarter 2016 financial results on 27th May 2016. A summary of its results is shown in Table 5 in the Appendix.
Revenue for the period increases by 25.4% to RM146m while profit before tax improved by 61.7% to RM23.6m compared to the corresponding period last year. Both business segments have increased revenue and increase in profit.
The particleboard segment registered an increase in revenue and PBT of 8.3% and 31.5% to RM51.7 and RM10.2m respectively. The Ready-to-assemble (RTA) products segment has a higher increase in revenue of 37.2% to RM94.2m with its PBT almost doubled to RM13.5m.
Compared to the immediate preceding period, revenue dropped marginally by 3.3% while PBT decreased by 22%. This is due to the seasonality as a result of festive seasons which reduced the number of working days in this period.
Basing on the latest trailing twelve months’ result, return on equity and return on invested capital have improved further to 22% and 28% respectively, more than double that of its cost of capitals.
The company has further paid up and reduced its debt to just a nominal RM13.2m, from RM58.4m during the end of last year. It now has a net cash of RM80m, or 18 sen per share. Besides it has started to pay better dividend, a dividend of 2.75 sen for last financial year, or a reasonable dividend yield of 2.3% at the present price of RM1.18, commensurate to what one can get from bank interest. Going forward, I would expect Hevea to increase its dividend due its healthy balance sheet, good earnings and cash flows.
Conclusions
Hevea, in the past few years, has transformed itself from a very risky company with huge debts facing a financial crisis in 2008 to a highly profitable and safe company with net cash now. It exhibits high growth in recent years and earns high return on capital with excellent cash flows and free cash flows. In another words, Hevea has transformed itself into a great company.
The investment thesis of Hevea lies in its low market valuation with earnings yield of 19.3% and its high cash yield of more than 10%, more than twice that an investor can get from putting his money in bank fixed deposit.
The conservative GCGM with growth assumption just matching the rate of inflation shows that Hevea is worth RM2.18 per share, or a margin of safety of 46% investing in it at RM1.18.
I see little risk in investing in a good company at a cheap price, but potential in extra-ordinary gain.
“The secret to successful investing is to figure out the value of something and then-pay a lot less” Joel Greenblatt
K C Chong (29th May 2016)
Appendix
Table 1: Financial performance of Hevea
Table 3: Computation of weighted average cost of capital
Table 4: Gordon Constant Growth Model for Hevea
Table 5: Hevea first quarter 2016 results
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Discussions
14 people like this. Showing 50 of 54 comments
I totally disagree.
1. Warren Bufett once said: "If The Business Does Well, The Stock Eventually Follows."
Fund managers are just normal person like you and me. When a business is doing so well, it's just a matter of time where they will be attracted to invest in it, like any other individual investor. You'll be late to the party if you wait for them.
2. Warren Bufett: “You should invest in a business that even a fool can run, because someday a fool will.” In my translation, it's "You should invest in a business that even a fool can invest, because someday even a fool will."
This is why sometimes I ignore the technical chart, share price & market movement. To me, FA is utmost important aspect to consider.
2016-05-29 04:33
stockmanmy, KC spotted Hevea few years ago at 23.5 sen. That time u were still slogging away at your desk doing your accounting chores. Please stop lecturing KC about investing, you fool
--------------------
"I first wrote about Hevea just three years ago when its adjusted share price was just 23.5 sen apiece, together with other furniture stocks as appended in the link below."
2016-05-29 07:22
@moneysifu, Hevea's direction is pretty clear. Clear off the debt to reduce financial cost, 2. enhance automation to increase profit margin.
Compared to its closest peer, Evergreen(which is also a particleboard procedure). Hevea is trading at 6x PE with high ROIC, ROE and terrific FCF generated. Evergreen is only paying 1 cent of dividend at 2016, with PE of 10x.
Certainly, if heave continues to do good, it is definitely able to pay more dividend while expanding and improving its business. With multi-millions of FCF, Hevea is certainly able to pay more dividend. It is just a matter of time :)
2016-05-29 11:32
Posted by moneySIFU > May 28, 2016 11:57 PM | Report Abuse
Mr Chong, what do you think on the dividend payout by the management?
Posted by iamsoonoob > May 29, 2016 12:27 AM | Report Abuse
hello,kc and thanks for your great analysis on hevea.i do agree with the calculation and the metric benchmark but too bad in my personal opinion,its dividend payout not consistent and not so attractive to me......maybe its depend on individual taste though.......
The most important thing for a business is its ability to produce cash flows from its core operations over a period of time, free cash flows (FCF) in particular after spending on necessary capita expenses for growth.
It is from this FCF that the company can do a few shareholder value enhancing things:
1) To invest in new ventures which yield higher return than the alternative investment the company can use this FCF
2) To pay down debts
3) To buy back its own shares if they are selling cheap
4) To pay dividend.
I roughly rank this order of importance for its use of FCF.
If the debt of a company i manageable, like what happen to Hevea now, and it can make better use of the money to pay down debt, (2) may not be that important any more.
Hevea was having huge USD denominated debts a few years ago which made its operation risky in time of economic down turn. It is no longer the case.
2016-05-29 12:57
Posted by Blacksails > May 29, 2016 01:43 AM | Report Abuse
Stock investment is a funny thing;if a stock has no strong supporters or sponsors like fun managers, it is not going to perform well long term. Hevea
could be one of them. Funny thing is that sometimes FA isn't important.
Where do your statistics come from?
I have shown many cases contrary to your point of view. Here is one of them
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/92580.jsp
2016-05-29 13:31
Great write up KC.
I noted that the 5 yr average FCL of 53.5m is much higher than the 5 yrs ave PAT of 29m i.e. over the last five yrs it produced 120m more cash than its PAT.
on closer analysis the bulk of the excess came from its 127m non cash depreciation charges vs its 38.4m net capital expenses. I am wondering is this sustainable ?
2016-05-29 15:14
450 m shares
120 m warrants
is it really under valued?
The reason it is relatively unaffected by adverse currency movements against USD is because its sales are mainly to Japan and China. ...not USD.
If you want to buy, go ahead la.
warning.....FA of the type preached are based on historical records , how much of a predictive power, I leave it to you.
2016-05-29 15:49
Please lah. They export to other countries, but it's denominated in USD.
Desa, oh desa. Please do your research first before you start criticizing without basis.
2016-05-29 16:04
Posted by stockmanmy > May 29, 2016 03:49 PM | Report Abuse
1)450 m shares
120 m warrants
is it really under valued?
2)The reason it is relatively unaffected by adverse currency movements against USD is because its sales are mainly to Japan and China. ...not USD.
3)If you want to buy, go ahead la.
4)warning.....FA of the type preached are based on historical records , how much of a predictive power, I leave it to you.
In your first concern (1), if you read and can understand the valuation in Table 4, you won't ask this question any more, especially if you are an accountant.
Your good friend, who aren't an accountant have corrected your statement (2) aptly, a statement of an accountant.
3) Did I ask you to buy?
4) You have posed this same statement again and again as below
Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 3, 2016 10:48 AM | Report Abuse http://cdn1.i3investor.com/cm/icon/trans16.gif
What Fa what Ta?
It is instincts ......either you got it or you don't.
I have addressed your statement in a full article with evidence here. Please read and appreciate your further comments.
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/92580.jsp
I am still awaiting your substantiation and evidence on your statement of "It is instincts ......either you got it or you don't."
Mind to share with us the academic research that instinct is the way to go in investing?
2016-05-29 17:31
They have done quite well expanding their markets in Japan and China, haven't they?
The share came down from a high a $ 1.80 to its current level and report a decent set of figures, contradicting the message send by the share decline in the same period. , thus offering a good trading opportunity.
well, go ahead....just want to know do Malaysia really have strategic advantage in this business compare to competitors from Thailand and Indonesia and other countries?
450 m shares
120 m warrants
sales about $ 500 m
not my money. up or down don't affect me.
2016-05-29 18:02
instincts or intuitive or gut feeling ? you worship your idol too much, he could predict half correct the other half he manipulate !
2016-05-29 19:11
Haha KC, sorry but I'm no good friend of Desa. Though neither am I an enemy of his.
I'm just a peaceful passersby who is trying to correct an ignorant statement.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by stockmanmy > May 29, 2016 06:29 PM | Report Abuse
why insiders not buying on good news one?
-------------------------------------------------------------
I guess this is what people called "Picking bones from eggs".
You know Desa, if you're smart enough, i3investor actually have a column that allows you to check insiders purchases.
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/annchdr/5095.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/stk/annchsh/5095.jsp
As usual, do your research first before picking bones from eggs. Otherwise the joke's on you.
2016-05-29 19:18
He thought when insiders buy share price must shoot up one. Cannot collect low ar? Why must give u opportunity to trade?
2016-05-29 19:46
Posted by bcllct > May 29, 2016 03:14 PM | Report Abuse
Great write up KC.
I noted that the 5 yr average FCL of 53.5m is much higher than the 5 yrs ave PAT of 29m i.e. over the last five yrs it produced 120m more cash than its PAT.
on closer analysis the bulk of the excess came from its 127m non cash depreciation charges vs its 38.4m net capital expenses. I am wondering is this sustainable ?
Great observation bcllct.
The high free cash flow is due to the charge back of depreciation from the very high capex made in 2005 and 2006. No, the continuous high Free cash flow is not sustainable. Eventually capex has to be about depreciation, and hence FCF closely follows net income.
Hence my estimate of FCF using its average last 5 years FCF is too liberal. Thanks for pointing out.
However, its latest trailing net profit of RM57m closely resemble my my assumption of base FCf of RM56.2m used in the constant growth model.
Valuation is also an art, but I believe it is better than "intuition" and "gut feeling".
2016-05-29 20:05
450 m shares
120 m warrants
Heaveaboard, up or down does not affect me.
just let you know it is not PE 3 as shown by i3 in financial analysis column. hahaha
2016-05-29 20:07
fcf.....
there is nothing you can get anywhere that is subject to as much fluctuations as FCF..................
and all for very legit reasons.
2016-05-29 20:09
people in i3 have been trained to look at cash levels in the Balance Sheet. Even go calculate cash per share as if give them margin of safety.
some have comments like high cash levels good.
well, if cash so important for share price, nobody will want to declare dividends.
2016-05-29 20:16
everyone has different strategy when it comes to investment. coz we are all different. different personality, different upbringing, different life experience, different work experience, different background, different knowledge, etc. As long as you are comfortable with your strategy and you make money, then congratulation! If you are not, KC's methods of "head i win, tail i don't lose much" might be a viable option for you. Remember, there is no "best strategy" in this world! :)
2016-05-29 20:26
Once in a while, specific trigger drives share price so unjustifiable low that value investors who can rationalise well stand to make a nice sum by being a contrarion. Part of the reason for Hevea's share price decline is due to persistent attacks from a blogger by the name of Robertl. Interestingly, unlike professional short sellers who are experts in casting doubt on financial numbers, none of Robertl's allegations actually question the stunning numbers achieved by Hevea. This make the sell down even more ridiculous than those who fall victim to professional short sellers.
2016-05-29 20:27
Posted by stockmanmy > May 29, 2016 08:09 PM | Report Abuse
fcf.....
there is nothing you can get anywhere that is subject to as much fluctuations as FCF..................
and all for very legit reasons.
Posted by stockmanmy > May 29, 2016 08:16 PM | Report Abuse
people in i3 have been trained to look at cash levels in the Balance Sheet. Even go calculate cash per share as if give them margin of safety.
some have comments like high cash levels good.
well, if cash so important for share price, nobody will want to declare dividends.
Without FCF, and without cash in the balance sheet, tell us where the money from dividend payment comes from?
And tell us, not looking at balance sheet, free cash flow, PE etc, how do you do your investment?
"Instinct", "Intuition", "gut feeling"? Tell us your personal experience how you have made your big money?
Someone have done that? Provide us with evidence, say the last 5 years, a history and record of how big money he has made? This is the clue, the history and record can be found, just right here, in i3investor.
Without doing the above, how are you going to convince us that basing on those instinct, intuition and gut feeling is a better way to go in investing?
2016-05-29 21:00
The B/S strength has indeed improved substantially and should be in a position to pay better dividend in future. The management intention to spend RM20 mil capex to upgrade to increase automation and reduce labour costs is aright step to improve the quality of its products to retain and attract premium customers.
My only concern is 90% of its revenue is denominated in USD but its input costs are mostly denominated in Ringgit. You can see in its annual report that most of its receivables and payables were denominated in USD and Ringgit respectively.
At current ROE of around 20%, if the dividend payout increase to 30% of EPS. Its sustainable growth rate at 14% is very good. Hence, at RM 1.18, achieving a TSR of 10% should be sustainable.
2016-05-29 22:05
KC, I usually use 5 years data when doing Fundamental Analysis.
Do you advise to use 10 years data instead of 5 years?
Because I kinda think 10 years is quite far fetched because the macro and micro economy has changed drastically.
2016-05-30 04:53
Posted by Ezra_Investor > May 30, 2016 04:53 AM | Report Abuse
KC, I usually use 5 years data when doing Fundamental Analysis.
Do you advise to use 10 years data instead of 5 years?
Because I kinda think 10 years is quite far fetched because the macro and micro economy has changed drastically.
Investing is about the future. The past is used as a guide. What to use depends how well one knows about the industry, and the company is specific.
Sometimes I use 5 years' past as a guide, sometimes 10 years, but sometimes just the last year. If there is a good guidance from the company or the analysts about the future, that should be a better guide.
I kind of agree with you because not only macro has changed, the micro of the company may have changed too. So using the past too far back may not be right.
2016-05-30 07:09
Here comes K Chong with the "extrapolate past earning" fundamental analysis again. Remember Pintaras? And how I asked you about its earnings prospect? In hindsight, isnt it safe to conclude that I understood Pintaras business better? How is the company doing now fundamental wise?
2016-05-30 07:55
Hi KC,
Could you please explain a little bit more of what you mean in the last part of your statement?
"The return on equity and invested capitals, both of which are my favourite metrics to measure ..........., have both shot up to 22%, way above its costs".
Thank you
Yes, it is so good to see you back.
2016-05-30 09:14
"extrapolate past earning" fundamental analysis would be the only competitive for a guy from NZ
and NZ market is too boring to cari market.
no need to know the business.
2016-05-30 09:53
Stockmanmy, u are wrong,fundamental analysis play an important role in investing other then technical.
2016-05-30 10:11
Posted by cheahsk > May 30, 2016 09:14 AM | Report Abuse
Hi KC,
Could you please explain a little bit more of what you mean in the last part of your statement?
"The return on equity and invested capitals, both of which are my favourite metrics to measure ..........., have both shot up to 22%, way above its costs".
Thank you
Yes, it is so good to see you back.
Customarily, most investors measure annual company performance by looking at earnings per share (EPS). Did they increase over last year? Are they high enough to brag about? For his part, Buffett considers EPS a smokescreen. Most companies retain a portion of their previous year's earnings as a way of increasing their equity base, so he sees no reason to get excited about record earnings per share. There is nothing spectacular about a company that increases earnings per share by 10%, if at the same time, it is growing its equity base by 10%. That's no different, he explains, from putting money in a savings account and letting the interest accumulate and compound. Worse still, there are many companies borrow huge amount of money to improve EPS, but the marginal return is way below its borrowing costs.
For example, a company borrows RM100 m and invest in a new project making RM2 m for the year. Its earnings would grow by RM2 m for the year. Is that a good move? Obviously not. How can making a 2% of an additional capital a good thing?
The test of economic performance, he believes, is whether a company achieves a high earnings rate on equity capital ("without undue leverage, accounting gimmickry, etc."), not whether it has consistent gains in EPS.
If your cost of capital is 10%, and your return on the capital is 20%, isn't that wonderful?
2016-05-30 14:52
Posted by stockmanmy > May 30, 2016 09:53 AM | Report Abuse
"extrapolate past earning" fundamental analysis would be the only competitive for a guy from NZ
and NZ market is too boring to cari market.
no need to know the business.
Fundamental analysis is "extrapolate past earnings", and "no need to know the business"?
Is your opinion above an opinion of self proclaimed accountant?
2016-05-30 15:31
talk clever.... if you have only RM100,000 at retirement, it is difficult to convince people that you are good with stocks. People will ask you "what have u been doing all these years ?" LOL
2016-05-30 15:38
Thank you KC, for answering my question.
I guess like they say, "Investing is more of an art, than science", hence very subjective the methods of fundamental analysis.
2016-05-30 15:49
Particleboard industry is like commodity and even furniture industry; there is boom and bust. Be cautious for long term.
2016-05-30 15:54
furniture cannot be compared with commodity la....there is unique craftsmanship-design & quality involved.
2016-05-30 16:00
in a bull market, any thing that gives people confidence and hold will make money
in the case of this Hevea, its probably oversold and go up a bit.....
this commodity share is fully valued by any metrics I use....taking into account the state of the market., world economy....and I still don't know how they can compete with the Thais who are champions in this business.
2016-05-30 18:17
Blacksails, particle board are kind of wood, so you are right, it is commodity. All furniture include those sold at ikea are also commdity. Many people like to buy commodity & put it at home for display only.
2016-05-30 19:10
Nature and management of the business are as important if not more important
than financial analysis in fundamental analysis? Warren B?
2016-06-01 14:41
in term of business, this company is doing great. I don't see people worry about this industry because its under commodity business, hevea is definitely undervalued being a commodity company. What concerns me with hevea might be coming commodities price war due to strengthening of USD, will hevea stands bright among competitions?
2016-06-06 22:33
since you guys are talking about Hevea, I would also like to bring to your attention on Evergreen Fibreboard... this share has retreated since it reached its peak at RM2.56 (and after bonus issue of 1:2)... to now RM1.07... the latest EPS was 2.68sen (after bonus issue) and it is trending to earn more than 10sen for full year (as MYR remains weak against USD, and the company is doing a lot of restructure in the operation to bring down costs; and also the low raw material costs now)... if you really studied this share well, you will noticed that their results are still as good as they were when it was trading at its peak price (RM2.56).. I believe the recent sell-down was due to many speculations that MYR will get stronger vs USD and export play is over... but I do not think this is the case.. in fact, just like Hevea, Evergreen's profit is sustainable and its management team is definitely one of the best, if not the best...
2016-06-23 14:58
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This book is the result of the author's many years of experience and observation throughout his 26 years in the stockbroking industry. It was written for general public to learn to invest based on facts and not on fantasies or hearsay....
Blacksails
Stock investment is a funny thing;if a stock has no strong supporters or sponsors like fun managers, it is not going to perform well long term. Hevea
could be one of them. Funny thing is that sometimes FA isn't important.
2016-05-29 01:43