Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-03-04 10:31 | Report Abuse

many people talk about stop loss, but it is a very alien concept to me. Throughout my so many years of investing, I have never "stopped loss".

If I ever sold, that is because the fundamentals deviated from my expectation, not because share price has dropped below a pre determined level.

Just narrating my experience, sifus sifus please don't get upset

thank you

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-03-04 10:35 | Report Abuse

there were numerous cases my stocks shrank by as much as 50% and I didn't sell a single share. For example : I bought pantech-WA at 34 sen, it shrank to 12 sen (lowest), I hold on until it rebounce to 60 sen. If I followed stop loss, I would have sold at 20 sen plus

not to say my technique more superior, I guess it is the FA fellow inside me that told me to hold on. Different people different style

Posted by powerup > 2016-03-04 10:37 | Report Abuse

the desire to win means action, take action, take leverage to win big.

the desire to be right leads to talk three talk four.

the desire to win means take action, changing, evolving, adapting.

no desire to win, talk no use.

Posted by shinado > 2016-03-04 10:46 | Report Abuse

Desire to win? Don't want to think about risk? Only think about how much you might get back in return?

Come. Let me take you to the casino. I know of a perfect spot for you. What are you doing trading in stocks? Your return might not be very high. On the other hand, in the casino, your return is 100%. Also, if you lose, is 100% too. Can be done in matter of minutes or seconds.

Don't waste your time rambling about instincts in stock market. Go to the casino. Winner takes it all.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-03-04 10:50 | Report Abuse

Desa, same apply to you

you should focus on how to identify stocks to make money here in i3, instead of trying to argue with everybody non stop and poh lan pah (which is non of our business, except that it create a cult and unhealthy intellectual environment, that is why we opposed)

I said the above not to flame you, just voicing my hope that i3 can become a more peaceful place for sharing ideas

Posted by ckkhen > 2016-03-04 10:56 | Report Abuse

shinado,

Well said.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 11:01 | Report Abuse

Another one of the best comments of the decade.


Posted by shinado > Mar 4, 2016 10:46 AM | Report Abuse

Desire to win? Don't want to think about risk? Only think about how much you might get back in return?

Come. Let me take you to the casino. I know of a perfect spot for you. What are you doing trading in stocks? Your return might not be very high. On the other hand, in the casino, your return is 100%. Also, if you lose, is 100% too. Can be done in matter of minutes or seconds.

Don't waste your time rambling about instincts in stock market. Go to the casino. Winner takes it all.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 11:17 | Report Abuse

Yeo,

Margin for investment during extreme bear mah....!!
So when u buy with big margin of safety and prepare for the long haul hold...!! U can select good counter during this period...!!
Bcos the market has fallen a lot....it is safer to hold loh....!!
Since u buy under extreme bear....there is not damage loh...!!
In this situation...volume is not important....in fact u prefer a low volume.....bcos this also indicate selling pressure subside loh..!!
The above is using margin for investment...bcos the cheaper the safer loh.....!!

For speculator and trader...u set the stop loss..usually for most player will make their move during xtreme bull. To take advantage of momentum...!!
Thus it is very important to set ur stop mechanically, if mkt pullback...bcos most of the stock is overvalue....the correction may be xtreme loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 11:24 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 11:27 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 4, 2016 10:00 AM | Report Abuse
Raider beg to be different here loh....!!
U should margin during the extreme bear and reduce your exposure as the mkt slowly turn more and more bullish and complete out when it is very bull loh....!!
This is in line with the teaching of taking advantage of Ben Graham Mr Market loh...!!
U r most optimistic when market is most bearish and most pessimistic when market is most bullish loh....!!
Of course the above is only ur psychology make up....u still need to be collaborated with your margin of safety calculation, in order to be successful loh....!!
Should u margin today ? Raider says can start mildly & tip toe loh...!!


Raider, be my guest. Use your margin to your limits as you wish. My blessing to you. But you are doing a disservice to the society encouraging the youngsters and newbies to use margin finance.

Show me where and how the use of margin finance “is in line with the teaching of taking advantage of Ben Graham Mr Market loh”.

Instead of your assertion that my discouragement of using margin as “flaw”, I think your propagation of the use of margin finance is becoming more and more dangerous, and misleading, and flawed too.

In the Asian Financial Crisis in 1997 the KLCI dropped by close to 60% in about just half a year. The markets did recover substantially by about 35% between one to three months. That was the most dangerous part, as those who thought Jaw 1 had ended without knowing the appearance of Jaw 2. The markets plummeted by another 60% in another half a year later when KLCI and SBI closed at 303 points and 77 points respectively on 28 August 1998.

The KLCI suffered its biggest daily drop of 21.5% on Sept 8, 1998 after Anwar Ibrahim was sacked as the Deputy Prime Minister. From peak to trough within one and a half year, the KLCI and SBI had lost by 76% and 88% respectively.

Are you aware that how many speculators, especially those using margin finance, got killed during that time; both during its peak when the market was extremely bullish, and its bear market when many investors thought that Jaw 1 had gone?

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/73675.jsp

1997-8 was just one of the numerous examples in Malaysia. Before that we have the cash of 1973, 1983, 1984, 1987,

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/73543.jsp

After that we had the plunge in 2001, the Dotcom Bubble, and most recently, the US Subprime crisis in 2008.

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/73859.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/74057.jsp

Yes, the market eventually recovered, way above those times. Investors with long-term view who stayed high in their capital structure had recovered nicely. But did those margin users recover? I doubt so. Many of them still paying their debts now.

Posted by duitKWSPkita > 2016-03-04 11:28 | Report Abuse

Dear Respected KC Chong,

drop by to bid farewell.

We will meet up in summit very soonest.
Thanks for all wonderful guidance.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 11:40 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 4, 2016 11:24 AM | Report Abuse
ICON BY BUYING INTO THE WARRANT, INSTEAD MOTHER....INDIRECTLY U R A MARGIN INVESTOR TOO LOH...!!

MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW, THEY ARE IN FACT USING MARGIN WHEN THEY ARE BUYING INTO DERIVATIVE LOH...!!

IF USING DERIVATIVE, THE CAUTION SHOULD BE APPLIED LIKE WARRANT AS PER USING BANK MARGIN MAH....!!
IN FACT DERIVATIVE, HAVE A HIGHER RISK COMPARE WITH BANK MARGIN , BCOS
OF THE HIGHER LEVERAGE AND USUALLY HIGH PREMIUM PAID OR COST COMPARE WITH BANK INTEREST RATES LOH...!!

Speculator bets on derivatives in the hope of exaggerated return. They bet say RM1m on an option, hoping to make RM10m with an option with a gearing of 10 times. When the option expires out-of-the-money, he loses everything, i.e. RM1m. Yet his maximum loss is only what he has bet on, i.e. RM1m.

A financial risk management investor places RM10000 on an option, hoping to make RM100,000. If his bet is right, he makes extra-ordinary gain using one tenth of the money to hope to make the same gain. If he is wrong, the maximum he loses is RM10000.

In both cases above, the initial outlay is the maximum they will lose.

In speculating on derivative, you are speculating on a leveraged instrument. You are not using margin finance by borrowing more money than what you have to speculate.

How can you compare a margin finance user and speculating in a leveraged instrument?

That is the difference of a speculator and an investor’s mind set.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 11:48 | Report Abuse

Posted by kcchongnz > Mar 4, 2016 11:27 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 4, 2016 10:00 AM | Report Abuse
Raider beg to be different here loh....!!
U should margin during the extreme bear and reduce your exposure as the mkt slowly turn more and more bullish and complete out when it is very bull loh....!!
This is in line with the teaching of taking advantage of Ben Graham Mr Market loh...!!
U r most optimistic when market is most bearish and most pessimistic when market is most bullish loh....!!
Of course the above is only ur psychology make up....u still need to be collaborated with your margin of safety calculation, in order to be successful loh....!!
Should u margin today ? Raider says can start mildly & tip toe loh...!!


Raider, be my guest. Use your margin to your limits as you wish. My blessing to you. But you are doing a disservice to the society encouraging the youngsters and newbies to use margin finance.

Show me where and how the use of margin finance “is in line with the teaching of taking advantage of Ben Graham Mr Market loh”.

Instead of your assertion that my discouragement of using margin as “flaw”, I think your propagation of the use of margin finance is becoming more and more dangerous, and misleading, and flawed too.

In the Asian Financial Crisis in 1997 the KLCI dropped by close to 60% in about just half a year. The markets did recover substantially by about 35% between one to three months. That was the most dangerous part, as those who thought Jaw 1 had ended without knowing the appearance of Jaw 2. The markets plummeted by another 60% in another half a year later when KLCI and SBI closed at 303 points and 77 points respectively on 28 August 1998.

The KLCI suffered its biggest daily drop of 21.5% on Sept 8, 1998 after Anwar Ibrahim was sacked as the Deputy Prime Minister. From peak to trough within one and a half year, the KLCI and SBI had lost by 76% and 88% respectively.

Are you aware that how many speculators, especially those using margin finance, got killed during that time; both during its peak when the market was extremely bullish, and its bear market when many investors thought that Jaw 1 had gone?

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/73675.jsp

1997-8 was just one of the numerous examples in Malaysia. Before that we have the cash of 1973, 1983, 1984, 1987,

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/73543.jsp

After that we had the plunge in 2001, the Dotcom Bubble, and most recently, the US Subprime crisis in 2008.

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/73859.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/74057.jsp

Yes, the market eventually recovered, way above those times. Investors with long-term view who stayed high in their capital structure had recovered nicely. But did those margin users recover? I doubt so. Many of them still paying their debts now.

KC...HOW CAN RAIDER DOING A DISSERVICE TO THE SOCIETY, WHEN RAIDER IS GIVING A COMPLETE PICTURE & INVESTMENT STORY TO SOCIETY ?

YES...THERE IS A SLIGHTLY HIGHER RISK USING MARGIN COMPARE WITH PURE CASH LOH...!! BUT THIS WE SHOULD NOT DISCOUNT THE BENEFIT OF MARGIN TOO LOH....!!

USE YOUR MARGIN RIGHTLY...U CAN IN FACT....TAKE ADVANTAGE AND BENEFIT FROM IT LOH....!!

I NOTICE OF PARENT IS OVER PROTECTIVE NOWADAYS...THEY DO NOT ALLOW THE CHILDREN, RIDE A BIKE AND USE PUBLIC BUS...ETC....IS IT THE RIGHT WAY TO LEARN LEH ?

RAIDER SEE THAT USING MARGIN IS LIKE RIDING A BIKE LOH...THERE IS INHERENT DANGER, BUT THEY IS GOOD BENEFIT TOO LOH...!!

IF U BAN MARGIN ? IS LIKE U R BANNING MOTORBIKE LOH ??
IS THIS HOW THE SOCIETY SHOULD DEVELOP ?

LEARN HOW TO USE MARGIN IS THE ANSWER LOH....!! JUST LEARN HOW TO RIDE A BIKE SAFELY LOH....!!

Posted by 3iii > 2016-03-04 11:52 | Report Abuse

>>> Are you aware that how many speculators, especially those using margin finance, got killed during that time; both during its peak when the market was extremely bullish, and its bear market when many investors thought that Jaw 1 had gone? <<<


Raider started investing in stocks in 2009.
Raider is a young calf that has not met the tiger. :-)

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-03-04 11:56 | Report Abuse

storckraider, many people misunderstood with the saying "Warrant is one type of leverage". They confused margin financing leverage with Warrants leverage.

first of all, the word "leverage" or "gearing" refers to effect of using something small to drive something big. Just imagine a stick placed on a fulcrum can lift a heavy load with ease, and a big gear turn one round can make a small gear turns many rounds.

In finance, leverage and gearing is used to describe borrowings because borrowing can magnify return on equity.

when comes to warrants, leverage and gearing is used to describe effect of 10 sen gain in mother share from 1.60 to 1.70 (6% gain) can cause warrants to go up from 30 sen to 40 sen (up 30%)

even though both are leverage (or gearing), they are completely different animal.

as such, the nature of risk associated with them are completely different. I get very unsettled when people put them together to discuss although they are same thing

ha ha sorry for being so blunt. Hope you don't mind. Actually this message is not directed to you as I know u are very seasoned and experience. It is more for newbies, who get confused by the same terms that have different meaning

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 11:58 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 12:18 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 4, 2016 11:58 AM | Report Abuse
THIS KIND OF ARGUEMENT....DO NOT HOLD WATER LOH...!!
JUST BCOS U PUT RM 100K...U R LIMITING YOUR LOSSES LOH...!!
WHAT RAIDER SEE...IF U PUT RM 100K INTO DERIVATIVE U ARE AT RISK OF LOSING THE ENTIRE RM 100K LOH COMPARE PUT INTO MOTHER SHARE MAH...!!

THE SAME ARGUEMENT CAN BE SAY...IF I GET A MARGIN OF RM 100K LIMIT...MY MAX LIMIT LOSS OF RM 100K ONLY ??

THE CONTEXT OF LOSING MONIES USING MARGIN AND USING DERIVATIVE SHOULD BE READ TOGETHER LOH...!!
BOTH MAGNIFY EARNINGS AND LOSSES....!!

Let us not just talk, but show something solid of what we mean by margin finance which I have written numerous time, and one of the articles is here:

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/44344.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/61822.jsp
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/79429.jsp

And how to do financial risk management in speculating in a leveraged instrument.

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/58905.jsp

Yes, both magnify profit and losses. But which one will lose more, and which can subject to margin calls which the price can fall like waterfall due to the indiscriminate selling of investment bankers to limit their own loss, and can even lose more, much more, than their initial outlays?

Let us see how your argument “hold water”.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 14:21 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 15:16 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 4, 2016 02:21 PM | Report Abuse

Just bcos KC have bought warrant b4 and did not use margin b4...does not mean....Margin is of higher risk than the derivative loh...!!


Me: Let us say you intend to make RM100000, either from the underlying share, U, selling at RM1.00, or from its call warrant selling at 10 sen which has a conversion price of RM1.00 and expires in say 2 years’ time.

You expect the underlying share will double to RM2.00 in two years’ time, note expect, not necessary it will be.

So you will buy 100000 shares at RM1.00, or an initial outlay of RM100000. You are very good. You want to use margin finance to double your return. So you will use RM50000 of your own money, and RM50000 from margin financing.

When the outcome is positive and you are right as expected, you make the RM100000, or 200% using margin finance. So far so good.

But if you are wrong, and the share price drops 50% instead, you lose your RM50000, plus the margin finance of RM50000 you borrow. That is also 200% loss, not including your set up fees and interest for the money you borrow yet.

For speculating in warrants, W, and having the same expectation that the underlying share will go up to RM2.00 two years later, I buy 111000 shares of W at 10 sen, or an initial outlay of RM11100, only one fifth of your initial outlay in U.

When the share price of U goes up to RM2.00, the value of W is RM1.00, and my profit is 90 sen in W. My total profit will be the same of RM100000 (111000*0.9), the same as U.

But if U becomes 50 sen two years later, my W will expire worthless, and my total loss is RM11100, or 100% of my initial outlay.

Risk of losing RM100000, or 200% using 50% margin finance to aim for a gain of RM100000, compared to risk of losing RM11100, or 100% in speculating in a leveraged instrument to aim for the same gain, so your margin finance safer than speculating in a leveraged instrument?

Please elaborate.

Posted by Probability > 2016-03-04 15:24 | Report Abuse

wah...very interesting discussion...but my brain cells cant cope already :(

isn't there a difference between losing 100k that u earned and losing 100K that u borrowed. Coz...u not only no longer can behave like a capitalist...but now u have become another's slave...

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 16:06 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 16:15 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 16:21 | Report Abuse

Furthermore derivative holder need to take note of expiry date, whereas margin holder do not have expiry dates loh...!!

The expiry dates...result in amortization of the warrant thru time with high risk of zero value upon expiry...as usual warrant is using out of monies loh...!!
Even it is in monies...u need to pay premium....this again resulting out of monies loh....!!

I m not surprise...some people lose 100% of their investment bcos of this loh....!!

Posted by powerup > 2016-03-04 16:24 | Report Abuse

Eight wonders of the world..............


Bornoil, AAX, Tguan, VS, KESM, RHB, Scientex

they work as a team.


construct your own portfolio using these 7 stocks and the eighth wonder is the allocation / weightage you give to each stock.


fits all budgets.

Design your own margin account using these stocks.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 16:28 | Report Abuse

Of course raider is talking on losses of derivative v margin the risk aspect...where derivative will lose more loh....!!

But on the other hand, the positive side the derivative will make more than the margin...if the speculation turn out right loh...!!

Those people complaining of margin investment....when they are actually buying into derivative is actually taking more risk loh..!!

But people don understand, the fact that derivative is a bigger risk leverage loh...!!

That's why warren buffet says derivative is a weapon of mass destruction loh...!!

Posted by tonytonychopper > 2016-03-04 16:47 | Report Abuse

People don't understand also margin can kill yourself and your family..>100% lose bro..

Don't say buy at extreme bearish ...you think price is low enough...but it always goes lower la ...margin tak tahan lama la bro..Not everyone is skillful as u please..

Gentle reminder: Don't recommend everyone to use margin. If can, don't use at all. I have seen many shits margin cases happened that totally destroyed their lives..especially the experienced ones..

You all can continue to discuss ><

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 16:57 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 4, 2016 04:06 PM | Report Abuse
KC is not comparing apple to apple loh....!!
I guy having Rm 100k cash & want to invest everything in one derivative and a guy having Rm 100k and want to invest everything into the mother share mah....!!

Normally warrant will have the usual 5 to 1 leverage power and margin only have 1.67 to leverage power loh....!!

Given a guy...having Rm 100k...he will dump everything to warrant...he is expose upto Rm 100k cash loh...!!


Please don't use the term investing in your above statement. It is pure gambling, 100% pure gambling.

We are talking about risk all the time. I don't know about you, but I won't be so stupid to dump all RM100000 into warrant.

The goal is the same, to have an expected return of RM100,000; one using RM50000 own money plus RM50000 borrowings from bank, and the other using just RM11000 of his own money.

How can you say the latter is riskier than the former?

You got to have the mind set of doing financial risk management instead of gambling.

If you gamble,of course you will lose more,even with derivatives, no doubt.

Try learn something about using derivatives as financial risk management if you still don't have any knowledge. Trust me, it is good for you.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-04 16:59 | Report Abuse

Actually using margin is less harm than buying derivative like warrant loh....!!

A lot people...lose margin...bcos they use the margin to buy into warrant loh....!!

That mean...a high risk with a very high risk instrument...so u can imagine how much u will impacted u if the price reverse downwards loh....!!

Learn to use margin well...!!
learn to ride a motorbike well...!!
It will have its benefit once u master it loh...the fear is not margin...itself...it is unskillful and reckless players loh...!!

Just like u ...ride the bike....reckless....it is high risk of accident loh..!!

IT PLAIN COMMON SENSE MAH...!!

PEOPLE SEE USING MARGIN...LIKE COMMITTING MAJOR INVESTMENT SIN...IN FACT IT IS NOT LOH....!!

MARGIN, DERIVATIVE ARE SO OF THE TOOLS THAT CAN HELP U LOH...!!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-04 17:29 | Report Abuse

stockraider Actually using margin is less harm than buying derivative like warrant loh....!!
A lot people...lose margin...bcos they use the margin to buy into warrant loh....!!
That mean...a high risk with a very high risk instrument...so u can imagine how much u will impacted u if the price reverse downwards loh....!!
Learn to use margin well...!!
learn to ride a motorbike well...!!
It will have its benefit once u master it loh...the fear is not margin...itself...it is unskillful and reckless players loh...!!
Just like u ...ride the bike....reckless....it is high risk of accident loh..!!
IT PLAIN COMMON SENSE MAH...!!
PEOPLE SEE USING MARGIN...LIKE COMMITTING MAJOR INVESTMENT SIN...IN FACT IT IS NOT LOH....!!
MARGIN, DERIVATIVE ARE SO OF THE TOOLS THAT CAN HELP U LOH...!!


So you now finally admit using margin finance is also a high risk thing, just like playing derivatives. Good on you.

But why do you advocate a high risk investing to youngsters?

I strongly criticize it, not because you use margin is like you are committing major investment sin. Be my guest. Use margin “to the limits” as you like. It is none of my business.

But when you advocate, tell the youngsters to do this you already acknowledge as risky thing, you are doing a disservice to the society, because despite of what you have said, you haven’t given the complete picture, a true picture, of the pros and cons of margin finance yet, as what I have done.

The skill of using margin finance to make a lot of money from the stock market, if there is any proven skill, is like the skill of riding a bike well?

One must learn the skill of using margin finance, just like learning to become an Olympic gold medallist, because everyone can be taught and trained to be a gold medallist?

You must be kidding.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-03-04 23:12 | Report Abuse

Everybody selling their losers to buy AA and AAX


If got margin so nice, can have both.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 19:29 | Report Abuse

So you now finally admit using margin finance is also a high risk thing, just like playing derivatives. Good on you. YES THERE IS RISK USING MARGIN....THAT SHOULD NOT PREVENT US FROM MASTERING THIS IMPORTANT FINANCIAL TOOL..!!
IN REAL LIFE....THERE ARE RISK IN EVERYTHING...LIKE RIDING A BIKE, SCUBA DIVING, HIKING....ALL GOT ITS INHERENT RISK LOH....!!

But why do you advocate a high risk investing to youngsters? IT IS GOOD FOR YOUNGSTER TO START EARLY...!! IT IS EXPECTED NOT ALL IS EXPECTED TO MAKE THE GRADE...!! SOME WILL FAIL...AND MOVE ON...!!
THERE ARE SOME WILL BE SOME WHO MASTER THE SKILL AND BECOME HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL LOH....!! RAIDER SEE MANY FRIENDS AND SIFU DID VERY WELL LOH...!!

I strongly criticize it, not because you use margin is like you are committing major investment sin. Be my guest. Use margin “to the limits” as you like. It is none of my business. IT IS PHILOSOPHY FOR RAIDER SEE....THAT WE SHOULD BE POSITIVE IN LIVE N NOT TO BE NEGATIVE LOH....!!
THERE ARE FAILURE BUT THERE ARE SUCCESS TOO....!!
SO WE SHOULD DISCOUNT ALL THE FINANCIAL TOOLS...!!
THE ISSUE IS NOT MARGIN....BUT THE NECESSARY SKILL OF THE USER THAT NEED TO BE DEVELOPED LOH...!!

But when you advocate, tell the youngsters to do this you already acknowledge as risky thing, you are doing a disservice to the society, because despite of what you have said, you haven’t given the complete picture, a true picture, of the pros and cons of margin finance yet, as what I have done. AS I SAY...NOT EVERY YOUNGSTER CAN BE A DOCTOR, LAWYER, ENGINEER, PILOT BUT WE SHOULD NOT PREVENT THEM FROM TRYING LOH...!! BCOS ONE OF THEM....MAY HAVE MASTER THE SKILL OF MARGIN AND HE MAY BECOME THE NEW SUPER INVESTOR OF MSIA GEORGE SOROS LOH..!!

OVER IN RAIDER SIDE HERE....RAIDER HAD AT LEAST MORE THAN 10 CLOSE FRIENDS, THAT RAIDER KNOW PERSONALLY...THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL USING MARGIN FOR MORE THAN 20 YRS LOH....!!
THERE WOULD NOT BE AS SUCCESSFUL....IF THEY HAVE NOT MASTER THE ART OF MARGIN INVESTMENT AND THE MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...!!

The skill of using margin finance to make a lot of money from the stock market, if there is any proven skill, is like the skill of riding a bike well? NOT ANY TRADE...MARGIN U NEED TO LEARN AND MASTER...THERE ARE VARIOUS SKILLS....THERE IS THE PSYCHOLOGICAL MAKE UP AND THE EMOTIONAL CONTROL TOO.!!
IT IS NOT EASY TO MASTER, BUT IT IS WORTHWHILE TO MASTER LOH...!!

One must learn the skill of using margin finance, just like learning to become an Olympic gold medallist, because everyone can be taught and trained to be a gold medallist? YES THIS ULTIMATE....THE BEST OF THE BEST....A GOOD EXAMPLE IS GEORGE SOROS LOH....!!

BUT U NEED NOT BE AS GOOD AS OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST OR GEORGE SOROS...WHAT U NEED TO DO....IS JUST BE REASONABLE OK...TO ACHIEVE POSITIVE RESULTS.

You must be kidding. BENEFITS OF MARGIN TOOLS IS NOT A JOKE LOH...!!
IT IS A SERIOUS SUCCESSFUL INSTRUMENT FOR THOSE WHO REALLY LEARN AND MASTER THE USE LOH...!!

Posted by Probability > 2016-03-05 19:39 | Report Abuse

any stocks in Bursa having the potential to reward us from margin financing..? Please give your inputs if you don mind Raider...

I don't want to take margin finance...but im just waiting to get a personal loan at 5% interest rate. Who knows I may win big later ;)

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 19:44 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 19:48 | Report Abuse

INVEST IN SPAC...USING MARGIN....IS SAFEST POSITIVE RETURN LOH...!!
BCOS IT LOCKED IN YIELD TO MATURITY.

U CAN BUY STOCKS TOO....BUT PRINCIPLE INVESTING IN STOCKS USING CASH OR MARGIN IS MORE A LESS THE SAME LOH....!!
AS LONG AS IT CAN BEAT THE FIXED RETURN OF 5% PA WHY NOT ?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-03-05 19:58 | Report Abuse

I like this raider.

Most people are mortals
They seek safety in conventions, in numbers, in political correctness, in generally accepted cliches

They no need for brains and no need for risk. No Need to challenge the status quo.

But the doers and the future tycoons are no talkers....they make their own rules.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 20:00 | Report Abuse

MARGIN HURDLE RATE IS 5% PA LOH.....!!
WE SHOULD BE POSITIVE THAT WE CAN BEAT THIS VERY LOW RATE USING MARGIN LOH.....!!
TO RAIDER SURPRISE....THERE ARE SO MANY PESSIMISM, DOUBTFUL THOMAS, UNJUSTIFY FEAR THAT RENDER MANY MANY LOSS OPPORTUNITY LOH...!!

THE AVERAGE BEARLY SUCCESSFUL INVESTOR MAKE 8% TO 10% PA....EVEN IF U HIT THIS TYPE OF RETURN....U SHOULD NOT FEAR THE LOW MARGIN COST OF 5% PA....!!
BCOS IT IS STILL POSITIVE WEALTH GENERATION LOH...!!

THOSE NOT SUCCESSFUL...GETTING MORE THAN 8% PA....NEED TO GO BACK AND RETHINK AND IMPROVE THEIR INVESTMENT SYSTEM LOH..!!
DON'T BE NAIVE...!! THEIR FAILURE IS NOT DUE TO MARGIN MAH...!!

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-03-05 20:45 | Report Abuse

compounding and exponential growth is the eighth wonder ....quotes Einstein.

But Einstein is not talking about stock-market. Einstein is talking about natural phenomenons......but the marketing agents have hijacked Einstein to serve their own needs to market their services.

Those who wish to enjoy compound growth should stick to fixed income and EPF.

Those who wish to join the world of tycoons are welcomed to the world of the tycoons full of risks and opportunities and gearing and margin accounts...even Tony Fernandes has margin accounts.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 21:03 | Report Abuse

Stockmammy

What they meant by compounding is the average rate of return pa, monies held and reinvested for many many yrs loh...!!

If your aveagerate return is

20% pa...double in 3.6 yrs
15% pa....double in 5 yrs
10% pa... double your monies 7.2 yrs
8% pa....double in 9 yrs
6 pa.....double in 12 yrs

The above action is call compounding

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-05 21:22 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Mar 5, 2016 07:29 PM | Report Abuse
IT IS GOOD FOR YOUNGSTER TO START EARLY...!! IT IS EXPECTED NOT ALL IS EXPECTED TO MAKE THE GRADE...!! SOME WILL FAIL...AND MOVE ON...!!
THERE ARE SOME WILL BE SOME WHO MASTER THE SKILL AND BECOME HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL LOH....!! RAIDER SEE MANY FRIENDS AND SIFU DID VERY WELL LOH...!!

Me: What will be the percentage of success and failure of youngsters or just normal retail investors? Please shows some research statistics.

How bad will it be if they fail with margin finance in speculating, or investing if you prefer to call it?

THERE ARE FAILURE BUT THERE ARE SUCCESS TOO....!!
SO WE SHOULD DISCOUNT ALL THE FINANCIAL TOOLS...!!
THE ISSUE IS NOT MARGIN....BUT THE NECESSARY SKILL OF THE USER THAT NEED TO BE DEVELOPED LOH...!!

Me: Yes, the issue is margin because if one fails with his own money, he can stand up again easily. If fail badly using margin, one not only lose everything, he can even lose more.

AS I SAY...NOT EVERY YOUNGSTER CAN BE A DOCTOR, LAWYER, ENGINEER, PILOT BUT WE SHOULD NOT PREVENT THEM FROM TRYING LOH...!! BCOS ONE OF THEM....MAY HAVE MASTER THE SKILL OF MARGIN AND HE MAY BECOME THE NEW SUPER INVESTOR OF MSIA GEORGE SOROS LOH..!!

Me: No, I will never discourage someone aspiring to be an engineer if he wants to try to. But I will definitely not encourage him to be an engineer if at high school, he can’t even do multiplication and division, because the chance is he will never succeed and will waste his time; and even if he eventually succeed to become one, like someone succeed becoming rich using margin finance, most likely purely due to luck, it won’t be good for the society too because building designed by him will collapse.

OVER IN RAIDER SIDE HERE....RAIDER HAD AT LEAST MORE THAN 10 CLOSE FRIENDS, THAT RAIDER KNOW PERSONALLY...THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL USING MARGIN FOR MORE THAN 20 YRS LOH....!!
THERE WOULD NOT BE AS SUCCESSFUL....IF THEY HAVE NOT MASTER THE ART OF MARGIN INVESTMENT AND THE MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...!!

Me: Ten succeeded, out of how many?
Yes, I also always hear of success stories in the stock market and hardly hear of failure personally from those people concerned. It is human nature. It is glorifying to tell people that one makes a lot of money from the stock market, but it is shameful to tell others of losing money, isn’t it?
But quoting numbers like that is highly spurious, you should do much better than that basing on numbers from research which are statistically significant.

YES THIS ULTIMATE....THE BEST OF THE BEST....A GOOD EXAMPLE IS GEORGE SOROS LOH....!!

Me: How many George Soros are there in this world? And how many Michael Sochai have actually lost their pants following the advice of using margin buying expensive stocks which had run up many folds in the stock market?

BUT U NEED NOT BE AS GOOD AS OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST OR GEORGE SOROS...WHAT U NEED TO DO....IS JUST BE REASONABLE OK...TO ACHIEVE POSITIVE RESULTS.

Me: Please shows statistics from research of how many percent of retail investors who have made above 5% return in the stock market.

BENEFITS OF MARGIN TOOLS IS NOT A JOKE LOH...!!
IT IS A SERIOUS SUCCESSFUL INSTRUMENT FOR THOSE WHO REALLY LEARN AND MASTER THE USE LOH...!!

Me: Most people like you only think of positive outcome. Unfortunately, the stock market is highly unknowable and unpredictable. Are you also fully aware of the perils of margin finance and its disastrous outcome if things don't go your way?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-05 21:33 | Report Abuse

Hey,

The more you mumble, the more I doubt your claim that you are a 60-year old retired accountant. OMG!



Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 5, 2016 08:45 PM | Report Abuse

compounding and exponential growth is the eighth wonder ....quotes Einstein.

But Einstein is not talking about stock-market. Einstein is talking about natural phenomenons......but the marketing agents have hijacked Einstein to serve their own needs to market their services.

Those who wish to enjoy compound growth should stick to fixed income and EPF.

Those who wish to join the world of tycoons are welcomed to the world of the tycoons full of risks and opportunities and gearing and margin accounts...even Tony Fernandes has margin accounts.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 21:54 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Probability > 2016-03-05 23:10 | Report Abuse

wait a min...

IF, the 'use of margin finance' (A) is to 'multiple many folds' the 'potential gain/loss insight' (B). And (B) is purely dependent on the advantage a person (C) has over the market at large.

THEN, shouldn't the less experienced (C) is, the lesser it should use (A) and instead if (C) is inexperienced, its better of learning about his/her correctness level on (B) by experimenting on the market without (A)....till (C) becomes very experienced and improved his/her (B) level?

(A) does not really appear like a learning tool.

So then youngsters should not be encouraged on using (A)..Raider.
As they will even miss out big opportunities for improving their (B).

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-05 23:17 | Report Abuse

stockraider

Raider comment;
Why u say a successful margin user pure luck ? This statement is sweeping and unfair loh...!!
If raider say the guy pass Engineer....pure luck ? It is unfair leh..No ?
Raider think...every area if u can master well...u eliminate the element of pure luck loh...!!


Me: Most people think they are very good making good profit in the stock market, without realizing the role of luck plays a more important role, especially in the short term. Similarly, for margin users when they strike once, yes, majority due to luck, especially in the short term. So they do that again and again, with the advice of “using margin to the limits”. When the market turns, which it often does, they lose everything.

Over-confidence has no place in investing.


Raider comment: Raider side mah....!! There are many people that are successful that raider don know loh....!!
But the 10 within raider circle of friend....that is successful...lend confidence....that we should not if they rectify their investment skill....they will magnify their gain instead of the losses....if they use margin mah...!!

KC being a trainer...should be confident...that a successful investment skill can imparted...mah...!!


Me: So how about those hundreds or thousands who failed into oblivion, exaggerated by the use of margin finance?

Yes, I do teach people about the fundamental of value investing and I strongly believe those who follow these principles will be successful in investing, in the long run. They may encounter short term share price volatility, which very often do, but in the long run, the probability of success is high.

But I don’t tell them they will sure make a lot of money, even in the short run. That will be from the mouth of snake oil salesman.

As market is unknowable and unpredictable, anyone who says he is cock sure of making 100% or even 10% in the short term, is a snake oil salesman.

Unfortunately, when using margin, you got to be right in the short run too, otherwise if you are terrible wrong, not only because of your stock selection skill, but due to black swan events not under your control, you get killed straightaway.


Raider just use George Soros as an ultimate benchmark...but actually the average Joe still can use margin profitably...but using a reasonable good investment system or skill loh..!!


Me: Really kah, even an average Joe can use margin profitably? Where got suckers in the stock market for you to profit from anymore?


Raider; if u ask for statistic...raider cannot give, bcos it is academic or useless info loh...!! Common sense tell raider that 5% pa is actually a bear minimum....given fixed deposits u may get upto 4% pa return mah...!!
If u cannot hit above 5% pa...u r lousy...u have failed...u better rethink whats wrong with your investment tech...!!


Me: Research statistics are not just academic or useless information as alleged by you. Those who claimed so are either they don’t read, or not able to understand research. They are empirical evidence, not merely empty sweeping statements.

I have just shown you average investor, even without margin, fails miserably in the stock market. Who is this “average Joe” you mention who is better? But can “average” be “better”?


Raider comment; In a way stock market is unpredictable in the short run loh.....!! But in long run is fairly predictable mah....!!
W.Buffet say short run...stock price is a voting machine and long run is a weighing machine mah...!!
Thus if use margin properly ....it can be highly successful...when interest rate is very low especially loh....!!
Thats why raider say...if u master the margin risk....it can be a good tool to make u rich...!!
Thus please be open minded....let young people explore loh....!!

Me: That is exactly the problem. Margin users have to be right in the short term. They can’t be terribly wrong in the short term because they will get thrashed and never able to get up again. And in investing, things can go terribly wrong in the short term. It has been shown again and again in history.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 23:36 | Report Abuse

Posted by Probability > Mar 5, 2016 11:10 PM | Report Abuse

wait a min...

IF, the 'use of margin finance' (A) is to 'multiple many folds' the 'potential gain/loss insight' (B). And (B) is purely dependent on the advantage a person (C) has over the market at large.

THEN, shouldn't the less experienced (C) is, the lesser it should use (A) and instead if (C) is inexperienced, its better of learning about his/her correctness level on (B) by experimenting on the market without (A)....till (C) becomes very experienced and improved his/her (B) level?

(A) does not really appear like a learning tool.

So then youngsters should not be encouraged on using (A)..Raider.
As they will even miss out big opportunities for improving their (B).

PROBABILITY AND ENCLOSED HEREWITH THE INVESTMENT COURSE A NEWBIES SHOULD GO THRU;

A)SUCCESSFUL IN INVESTMENT = MASTER A GOOD INVESTMENT SYSTEM AND SKILL

B)MASTER MARGIN AS A TOOL THAT MAGNIFY SUCCESSFUL INVESTMENT

C) STRENGTHEN NEWBIES EXISTING MAKE UP COMPROMISES OF INTELLIGENT, SKILL, INTELLIGENCE , ATTITUDE, PSYCHOLOGY AND ETC

BASIC
SO A GOOD INVESTMENT TRAINING SHOULD COVER SELECTION OF GOOD INVESTMENT SYSTEM AND IMPART THE NECESSARY INVESTMENT SKILL

TO MOULD THE INDIVIDUAL NEWBIES AND STRENGTHEN IS INVESTMENT ATTITUDE, EMOTION, PRINCIPLE, SYSTEMATIC APPROACH AND GOOD PRACTISE

TO RUN THE NEWBIES THRU TRIAL AND ERRORS....AND SEE HE GRADUATE AS A SUCCESSFUL INVESTOR

ADVANCE
TO ENHANCE NEWBIES BASIC SUCCESSFUL INVESTMENT SKILL THRU MAGNIFYING POSITIVE RETURN THRU MASTERING THE USE OF MARGIN AT THE SAME TIME, MANAGING THE RISK LOH....!!

RAIDER SEE U R NOT A COMPLETE INVESTOR....IF U DO NOT COVER THE SYLLABUS ON THE USE OF MARGIN MAGNIFICATION LOH.....!!

PRACTICAL
THE ABOVE IS JUST THE THEORETICAL ASPECT....U STILL NEED TO PUT THE NEWBIES THRU TRIAL AND TEST....THRU THE PRACTICAL ASPECT AND SPEND TIME TO GAIN THE NECESSARY EXPERIENCE LOH....!!

IF LATER THE GRADUATED NEWBIES INVESTOR CHOSE TO USE MARGIN OR NOT....IT IS THEIR CHOICE AND PREFERENCE LOH....!!

IF U R YOUNG....IT IS OK....TO START EARLY...TO LEARN THE ROBES...OF MARGIN MANAGEMENT LOH....!!

Posted by Probability > 2016-03-05 23:41 | Report Abuse

GAIN / LOSS = (A) x (B) x (C)

A = MARGIN FINANCE
B = INSIGHT over the market at large
C = CORRECTNESS of the INSIGHT (probability level : - 100 % to + 100%).
the lower the age...the more the probability towards incorrectness, i.e C is toward negative 100%.

As such do not use leverage when your certainty of correctness is very low. Leverage does not add value. What we need is to push C towards +positive 100%.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-05 23:59 | Report Abuse

Raider totally do agree luck do play a role loh....!! But to be successful consistently u cannot depend on pure luck mah...!!
Black swan even can hit both cash newbies as well as margin newbies loh..!!
But given hit both..cash and margin newbies will suffer loh...!!

Margin newbies will suffer abit more than cash....but it is ok loh...bcos they still have plenty of time & still got time mah...!!
They can recover & learn loh....!!

The issue is nothing due to margin....it is pure bad luck loh...!!
Margin is still a good tool...to magnify success...!!

Since it is newbies....their actual quantum loss will be not be high..bcos they just start loh...!! If they use cash...they still suffer too ...if the bad luck hit loh...!!

If like that....WHY U DON SAY don invest at all ?? Bcos it is profitable to invest in longrun loh....!!
The same arguement can be say USE MARGIN is also profitable....thats why raider say...WE MUST avoid KC SWEEPING ARGUEMENT USE MARGIN NO GOOD LOH...!!

Raider comment: Raider side mah....!! There are many people that are successful that raider don know loh....!!
But the 10 within raider circle of friend....that is successful...lend confidence....that we should not if they rectify their investment skill....they will magnify their gain instead of the losses....if they use margin mah...!!
KC being a trainer...should be confident...that a successful investment skill can imparted...mah...!!

Me: So how about those hundreds or thousands who failed into oblivion, exaggerated by the use of margin finance?

Yes, I do teach people about the fundamental of value investing and I strongly believe those who follow these principles will be successful in investing, in the long run. They may encounter short term share price volatility, which very often do, but in the long run, the probability of success is high.SAME ARGUEMENT HERE IN LONG RUN THOSE WHO USE MARGIN WILL BE SUCCESSFUL IF THEY MASTER THE ART OF INVESTMENT, INFACT MORE SUCCESS THAN THOSE THAT DO NOT USE MARGIN LOH.!

But I don’t tell them they will sure make a lot of money, even in the short run. That will be from the mouth of snake oil salesman.
As market is unknowable and unpredictable, anyone who says he is cock sure of making 100% or even 10% in the short term, is a snake oil salesman. THIS RAIDER ALSO AGREE LOH....BUT SOMEHOW....IF U R SUCCESSFUL IN YOUR INVESTMENT....U WILL BE MORE SUCCESSFUL USING MARGIN LOH...!! BCOS THE HURDLE RATE ON MARGIN IS DAMN LOW AT 5% PA LOH!!

Unfortunately, when using margin, you got to be right in the short run too, otherwise if you are terrible wrong, not only because of your stock selection skill, but due to black swan events not under your control, you get killed straightaway. IF U R A NEWBIES U GET KILLED WITH CASH OR MARGIN...IT IS A SETBACK LOH....IT IS PURE LUCK LOH...!!
BCOS LONG TERM INVESTMENT HAS A POSITIVE OUTCOME....EVENTUALLY U STILL CAN BE SUCCESSFUL LOH...!!
BTW....MARGIN IS NOT USE FOR SHORT RUN....IT IS A LONG RUN INVESTMENT LOH....!!
IF SHARE IS OVERVALUE IN THE SHORT RUN....U R NOT INVESTING...ANYWAY...!! U R SPECULATING LOH..

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-06 00:16 | Report Abuse

Raider just use George Soros as an ultimate benchmark...but actually the average Joe still can use margin profitably...but using a reasonable good investment system or skill loh..!!

Me: Really kah, even an average Joe can use margin profitably? Where got suckers in the stock market for you to profit from anymore?
RAIDER SUCCESSFUL BENCHMARK MARGIN FRIENDS ARE A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE LOH..!1
THEY ARE ACTUALLY JUST AVERAGE JOE WHO ARE SUCCESSFUL IN INVESTMENT AND THEIR RETURN IS MAGNIFY USING MARGIN MAH...!!


Raider; if u ask for statistic...raider cannot give, bcos it is academic or useless info loh...!! Common sense tell raider that 5% pa is actually a bear minimum....given fixed deposits u may get upto 4% pa return mah...!!
If u cannot hit above 5% pa...u r lousy...u have failed...u better rethink whats wrong with your investment tech...!!

Me: Research statistics are not just academic or useless information as alleged by you. Those who claimed so are either they don’t read, or not able to understand research. They are empirical evidence, not merely empty sweeping statements.
I have just shown you average investor, even without margin, fails miserably in the stock market. Who is this “average Joe” you mention who is better? But can “average” be “better”?
YOUR ARGUEMENT ARE HEARSAY TOO....IF U KNOW THE BANK MARGIN INVESTMENT DEPT....U CHECK WITH THEM ....WHAT ARE THE PROPORTION ARE THE SUCCESSFUL MARGIN INVESTOR THEY WILL LIKELY GIVE U RATIO OF 2 OUT OF 10 LOH....!!
THIS RATIO OF SUCCESS IS NOT TOO FAR FROM YOUR AVERAGE CASH INVESTORS LOH....!!
RAIDER KNOW A FEW MARGIN INVESTMENT DEPT....COFFEE TALK RAIDER DO GET THE ABOVE FEEDBACK LOH....!!

Raider comment; In a way stock market is unpredictable in the short run loh.....!! But in long run is fairly predictable mah....!!
W.Buffet say short run...stock price is a voting machine and long run is a weighing machine mah...!!
Thus if use margin properly ....it can be highly successful...when interest rate is very low especially loh....!!
Thats why raider say...if u master the margin risk....it can be a good tool to make u rich...!!
Thus please be open minded....let young people explore loh....!!

Me: That is exactly the problem. Margin users have to be right in the short term. They can’t be terribly wrong in the short term because they will get thrashed and never able to get up again. And in investing, things can go terribly wrong in the short term. It has been shown again and again in.
NOT NECESSARY MARGIN INVESTOR, NEED TO BE RIGHT SHORT RUN....THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE SUCCESSFUL CASH INVESTOR....THEY BOTH NEED TO BE RIGHT IN LONG RUN....IN ORDER TO BE VIABLE AND SUSTAINABLE LOH..!

THEY IS BIG CORRELATION SIMILIARITY OF SUCCESSFUL CASH INVESTOR AND SUCCESSFUL MARGIN INVESTOR LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-06 00:28 | Report Abuse

Posted by Probability > Mar 5, 2016 11:41 PM | Report Abuse

GAIN / LOSS = (A) x (B) x (C)

A = MARGIN FINANCE
B = INSIGHT over the market at large
C = CORRECTNESS of the INSIGHT (probability level : - 100 % to + 100%).
the lower the age...the more the probability towards incorrectness, i.e C is toward negative 100%.

As such do not use leverage when your certainty of correctness is very low. Leverage does not add value. What we need is to push C towards +positive 100%. RAIDER AGREE LOH....IF U R DUNGU....BETTER DON INVEST LOH....WHETHER U R CASH OR MARGIN INVESTOR LOH....!!

SO IF U HAVE NOT MASTER ITEM C....U BETTER DON INVEST LOH...!!

THE ARGUEMENT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER U R A CASH INVESTOR OR MARGIN INVESTOR LOH....!!

THE ARGUEMENT IS WHETHER U R A GOOD INVESTOR OR DUNGU INVESTOR MAH..!!

IF THE ANSWER IS THAT U R A GOOD INVESTOR....THAN U SHOULD INVEST.
IF U R GOOD INVESTOR U SHOULD USE MARGIN...BCOS IT WOULD MAGNIFY UR RETURN LOH...!!

IF ANSWER...IS DUNGU...DO NOT INVEST MAH!!...EVEN USE OWN CASH...AND TO USE MARGIN WHEN U ARE A DUNGU....MY ADVISE IS U BETTER JUMP INTO RIVER 1ST B4 U INVEST LOH....!!

Posted by Probability > 2016-03-06 01:03 | Report Abuse

aiyo...if your papa has 50 Million in asset and he gave 10 million as inheritance after you graduate from law school (no business knowledge), and you want to make money from stock market....you straightaway invest the 10M on the stocks you think has potential meh?

Or u would invest small small till you think you know the stock market and business world very well?

Your 'stakes' should be directly proportional to your confidence level.
its not right to have high stakes...when you are inexperienced.

and there is nothing 'to learn' or 'get experience' about taking stakes...margin finance.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-03-06 10:36 | Report Abuse

Posted by Probability > Mar 6, 2016 01:03 AM | Report Abuse

aiyo...if your papa has 50 Million in asset and he gave 10 million as inheritance after you graduate from law school (no business knowledge), and you want to make money from stock market....you straightaway invest the 10M on the stocks you think has potential meh?
PAPA WILLING TO GIVE RM 10M....THAT MEANS THE DAD GOT CONFIDENT WITH THE SON LOH...!! IF THE SON CHOSE...TO INVEST...BE IT LOH..!!


Or u would invest small small till you think you know the stock market and business world very well? ALTERNATIVE INVEST SMALL SMALL TO LEARN...THIS IS RIGHTWAY LOH...!! SAY PUT RM 200K....AND RM 200K MARGIN = THIS RIGHT AND SAFE WAY OF LEARNING LOH...!!
WHY MUST START WITH MARGIN ? NOT NECESSARY LOH....U CAN START WITH SMALL CASH TOO...!!
BUT WHY RAIDER SAY MARGIN FOR THIS NEWBIES ? USING MARGIN IS AN IMPORTANT TOOL TO MAGNIFY YOUR WEALTH...IT IS AN IMPORTANT INVESTMENT TOOL...U SHOULD NOT IGNORE LOH...!!

Your 'stakes' should be directly proportional to your confidence level.
its not right to have high stakes...when you are inexperienced.THIS RAIDER AGREE LOH....BUT DOES NOT MEAN U AVOID MARGIN ALL TOGETHER MAH...LIKE WHAT ADVOCATED BY KC....WHICH RAIDER DISAGREE LOH..!!
IN THIS EXAMPLE U START WITH CASH SAY RM 200K...THEN SMALL SMALL WITH MARGIN SAY RM 200K, AND GAIN THE NECESSARY EXPERIENCE LOH....!!

MARGIN IS NOT THAT BAD AFTERALL....IN FACT IT IS POSITIVE MAGNIFY YOUR WEALTH....IF U LEARN HOW TO USE IT WELL MAH...!!

and there is nothing 'to learn' or 'get experience' about taking stake..margin...Who say nothing to learn ?? There is plenty to learn loh....bcos margin accelerate your return when u r good loh....!!
Raider say this is an essential tool loh...!!
OF COURSE LEARNING MARGIN OF SAFETY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF INVESTMENT LOH....!!
LEARN IT FIRST....AFTER U HAVE THE INVESTMENT SKILL....THEN MORE ADVANCE LEARN ABOUT MARGIN LOH...!!

DO NOT BE BRAINWASH WITH THE FALSE NOTION....THAT MARGIN IS THAT BAD LIKE GAMBLING LOH....!!

MARGIN IS MUCH BETTER THAN GAMBLING WHY ?

BCOS GAMBLING GIVE U A NEGATIVE EXPECTED VALUE OR OUTCOME LOH...!!
WHEREAS MARGIN IS NEUTRAL LOH....!! IT IS A MAGNIFY TOOL...!!

IF U A GOOD INVESTOR...IT MAGNIFY YOUR RETURN...THEN BENEFICIAL TO USE MARGIN LOH....!!

IF UR LOUSY INVESTOR....THEN...DON INVEST LOH...!! BETTER JUMP INTO RIVER 1ST IF U CONSIDER TO USE MARGIN LOH...!!

RAIDER PROVIDE U WITH A BALANCE VIEW LOH...!!
THE WAY IT WAS CONVEYED BY PEOPLE....IS MARGIN IS THE SINNER...BUT IT IS NOT TRUE LOH...!! THE SUFFERING IS CAUSE THE POOR INVESTMENT SELECTION AND POOR INVESTMENT SKILL LOH...!!