Posted by qqq3 > 2019-05-24 21:29 | Report Abuse

Insas got no business model.......Insas is just Insas............

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-05-24 21:31 | Report Abuse

the company is a tool for CEO to play stock market...... that is all.....no business model.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-24 21:39 | Report Abuse

U mean berkshire hathaway is also a tool for warren buffet to play stock meh ??

THIS IS WRONG LOH...!!
The point is if u r competent and have great skill with good business model...it is usually very successful ....like the case of berkshire and insas loh...!!

Posted by qqq3 > May 24, 2019 9:31 PM | Report Abuse

the company is a tool for CEO to play stock market...... that is all.....no business model.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-05-24 21:44 | Report Abuse

last quarter Insas has $ 10 m revaluation gains passed through PL and another $ 13 m associated company profits...take that away, nothing left..........


next quarter? next quarter waiting to die lah.................

Posted by Veron_teo > 2019-05-24 21:57 | Report Abuse

stockraider , no more. see You in hengyuan already. no more tp 22 by cny? and your bjcorp lol. sohem like Calvin

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-05-24 22:04 | Report Abuse

This will never happen. If it did I would have bought INSAS shares long ago. But we both know the truth, and I look at real cash in hand, not stories and promises and tall tales.

This quarter is not what it seems.

>>>

Just go and buy back insas share, sure make monies mah...!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-05-24 22:10 | Report Abuse

A small lesson in quant.

If a bottle of beer is £1, how much is 100 bottles of beer? Seems easy? Not in the real world.

If you were a 7-11, at night when you know there is a party next door? You would sell it for £150, take it or leave it. Everyone is thisty and all the shops are closed.

If you were a supermarket, buy 100? Special discount, £85 for 100.

In the real world? If you start overselling shares, the demand can drop very low very fast.


>>>>>>

Dato Sri Thong still has about 600 million of Inari to sell, if he wishes to report more profit at anytime he choose.

Posted by michaelwong > 2019-05-24 22:16 | Report Abuse

Just look back certain counter stocks through their past years history despite with fair position and performance like insas....... this stock uptrend position is very limited and it cannot helps to achieve higher returns in your stock investment resources. Simply nothing can justify such claims and such stock simply does not attracts investors attention .

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-25 07:34 | Report Abuse

Dear philip,
Inari result NP to Shareholder:
Q1: RM 60,115,000
Q2: RM 55,086,000
Q3: RM 38,188,000

Ho Hup result NP to Shareholder:
Quarter end Dec: RM 6,488,000
Quarter end Sept: RM 5,465,000

INSAS result: Share of profits less losses of associated companies
Q1: Rm 10,646,000
Q2: RM 10,236,000
Q3: RM 13,333,000

So tell me why even Inari NP to SH drop by 31% but INSAS Share of profits less losses of associated companies increase by 30%

Thank you

Posted by SaraInvestment > 2019-05-25 09:43 | Report Abuse

Good results

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-25 13:39 | Report Abuse

Like sslee said, Insas core business has shown superb result insas should outperform loh...!!

QUOTE "So tell me why even Inari NP to SH drop by 31% but INSAS Share of profits less losses of associated companies increase by 30% "

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-05-25 13:55 | Report Abuse

what business model.??..........more like waiting to die.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-05-25 15:29 | Report Abuse

shpg22 > May 25, 2019 3:25 PM | Report Abuse

INSAS core business is lousy
=========

yet sslee favorite.............

Posted by Veron_teo > 2019-05-25 15:59 | Report Abuse

stockraider said the same to hengyuan haha.. BTW inari drop below 1.5 . insas will not earn so much d

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-25 17:20 | Report Abuse

THATS WHY RAIDER SAY U NOT SMART & TOO SMART LOH....!!

RAIDER ASK U TO LARI KUAT KUAT HENGYUAN AT RM 13.00 DID U LISTEN ???

RECENTLY RAIDER ASK U TO BUY HENGYUAN AT RM 5.00 AGAIN DID U LISTEN LEH?

IF U ACT NOT SMART & TOO SMART HOW COULD RAIDER HELP U LEH ???

posted by Veron_teo > May 25, 2019 3:59 PM | Report Abuse

stockraider said the same to hengyuan haha.. BTW inari drop below 1.5 . insas will not earn so much d

Posted by TheContrarian > 2019-05-25 19:29 | Report Abuse

Mr Sslee, any idea which Associated companies contributed the rest of the share of profits from Associated companies since Inari only contributed around RM7.5 million.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-25 22:16 | Report Abuse

Dear TheContrarian,
INSAS associate companies are mainly:
Listed companies:
1. Inari effective equity holding 19.1%
2. Ho Hup effective equity holding 12.2%
3. DGSB effective equity holding: 25.48%
Unlisted companies:
1. Melium Holding (Diffusin fashions, Lifestyle, Dome café) effective equity holding 43.3%
2. Winfields Deveopment Sdn Bhd effective equity holding 40%
3. Others: Mostly cash burning Fintech, Biotech and etc companies

So the other RM 5.8 million must come from the above. By next week Ho Hup and DGSB will announced their result by then can work out the contribution from the listed company and the rest will be from the unlisted companies.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-26 13:09 | Report Abuse

THIS MEANS THE ASSOCIATES ARE PERFORMING WELL AS IT CONTRIBUTING TO INSAS PROFITS LOH....!!

Posted by TheContrarian > May 25, 2019 7:29 PM | Report Abuse

Mr Sslee, any idea which Associated companies contributed the rest of the share of profits from Associated companies since Inari only contributed around RM7.5 million.


Posted by Sslee > May 25, 2019 10:16 PM | Report Abuse

Dear TheContrarian,
INSAS associate companies are mainly:
Listed companies:
1. Inari effective equity holding 19.1%
2. Ho Hup effective equity holding 12.2%
3. DGSB effective equity holding: 25.48%
Unlisted companies:
1. Melium Holding (Diffusin fashions, Lifestyle, Dome café) effective equity holding 43.3%
2. Winfields Deveopment Sdn Bhd effective equity holding 40%
3. Others: Mostly cash burning Fintech, Biotech and etc companies

So the other RM 5.8 million must come from the above. By next week Ho Hup and DGSB will announced their result by then can work out the contribution from the listed company and the rest will be from the unlisted companies.

Thank you

Posted by TheContrarian > 2019-05-26 14:46 | Report Abuse

Usually Inari provides the bulk of the share of profits from Associated companies but not this time, so which Associated companies turned out to be gem this time?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-26 15:06 | Report Abuse

The importance of inari for providing bulk share of profits had reduced tremendously, this is due to other associated company (exclude inari) have started contributing almost 50% of the associate profits to insas.

In addition insas operating subsidiaries start to contribute more than 65% to insas overall profit loh....!!

Insas is very resilience loh.....!!

With huge cash and strong NTA & balance sheet reflect huge opportunity for insas mah!.

The Current good performance support insas as a strong buy loh....!!

Posted by sell > 2019-05-26 17:24 | Report Abuse

Part of Insas profit come from Inari share rise from 31st Dec 2018 to 31st Mar 2019. Now Inari drop worse so that all the gain could become loss in Q2 2019.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-26 18:29 | Report Abuse

Dear sell,
Balance sheet:
Associate companies RM 428,986,000
This is the balance sheet book value all the INSAS associate companies:
Listed companies:
1. Inari effective equity holding 19.1%
2. Ho Hup effective equity holding 12.2%
3. DGSB effective equity holding: 25.48%
Unlisted companies:
1. Melium Holding (Diffusin fashions, Lifestyle, Dome café) effective equity holding 43.3%
2. Winfields Deveopment Sdn Bhd effective equity holding 40%
3. Others: Mostly cash burning Fintech, Biotech and etc companies

No mark to market needed. So imagine with 600 million of Inari share alone, if mark to market how much it worth?

Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss RM 245,640,000
This is the quoted stocks mark to market on 31th March 2019 in the INSAS Balance sheet.

Thank you

Posted by 3101575000 > 2019-05-26 19:01 | Report Abuse

INSAS new gem :Dgsb ???

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-05-26 19:32 | Report Abuse

I'm not being confrontational. I'm just trying to clear up information. Is this operating cash profit, or paper profit on fair value change?

Is it real np or just accounting schematics.

You have to admit INSAS is a very unique company with very unique set of valuation. It is very different from almost every other company in Bursa.

By standard accounting, financial analysis this company is beyond undervalued and should not exist for long. However the undervalue of INSAS has been apparent for years, there is no major shareholder to scare institution investors, and by all accounts you say the management appears above board and reliable.

And yet, the company is undervalued for years and years on end without much in the way of improving its share price versus NTA.

Why is the smart money ( professional investors, foreign funds etc) not enticed? That question should appear to be far more important than the data which has been apparent since day one.

INSAS and icap.biz is suffering almost the exact same fate ( and sane financial results).

Why?

>>>>>>>>>>>

Inari result NP to Shareholder:
Q1: RM 60,115,000
Q2: RM 55,086,000
Q3: RM 38,188,000

Ho Hup result NP to Shareholder:
Quarter end Dec: RM 6,488,000
Quarter end Sept: RM 5,465,000

INSAS result: Share of profits less losses of associated companies
Q1: Rm 10,646,000
Q2: RM 10,236,000
Q3: RM 13,333,000

Tell me why even Inari NP to SH drop by 31% but INSAS Share of profits less losses of associated companies increase by 30%

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-26 19:59 | Report Abuse

Remember QL owner goreng shares whereas Insas owner don't loh....!!

Thats the reasons why insas trade at a discount loh...!!

The profit earn by insas is real bcos back by real net cash, whereas QL profit lies with its inventory, debtors & fixed assets and funded by debt of more than Rm 1 billion loh...!!


Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > May 26, 2019 7:32 PM | Report Abuse

I'm not being confrontational. I'm just trying to clear up information. Is this operating cash profit, or paper profit on fair value change?

Is it real np or just accounting schematics.

You have to admit INSAS is a very unique company with very unique set of valuation. It is very different from almost every other company in Bursa.

By standard accounting, financial analysis this company is beyond undervalued and should not exist for long. However the undervalue of INSAS has been apparent for years, there is no major shareholder to scare institution investors, and by all accounts you say the management appears above board and reliable.

And yet, the company is undervalued for years and years on end without much in the way of improving its share price versus NTA.

Why is the smart money ( professional investors, foreign funds etc) not enticed? That question should appear to be far more important than the data which has been apparent since day one.

INSAS and icap.biz is suffering almost the exact same fate ( and sane financial results).

Why?

>>>>>>>>>>>

Inari result NP to Shareholder:
Q1: RM 60,115,000
Q2: RM 55,086,000
Q3: RM 38,188,000

Ho Hup result NP to Shareholder:
Quarter end Dec: RM 6,488,000
Quarter end Sept: RM 5,465,000

INSAS result: Share of profits less losses of associated companies
Q1: Rm 10,646,000
Q2: RM 10,236,000
Q3: RM 13,333,000

Tell me why even Inari NP to SH drop by 31% but INSAS Share of profits less losses of associated companies increase by 30%

Thank you

Posted by TheContrarian > 2019-05-26 20:02 | Report Abuse

3101575000, certainly not DGSB. I think it might be Winfields Development.

Posted by 3101575000 > 2019-05-26 21:38 | Report Abuse

TheContrarian,you might be right. Hopefully is Dgsb,bcos I got buy this counter.But chances is slim.

Posted by TheContrarian > 2019-05-26 21:49 | Report Abuse

I don't think DGSB can make so much profits. Maybe Ho Hup might report substantial profits.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-26 22:01 | Report Abuse

Dear TheContrarian,
If you look into:
A9. Segment Information:
Share of profits less losses of associate companies
Investment holding and trading
Cumulative Q2: RM (4,494,000)
Cumulative Q3 RM 1,383,000

Technology and IT-related manufacturing, trading and services
Cumulative Q2: RM 23,345,000
Cumulative Q3: RM 29,860,000
And total cumulative Q3 under this section Profit/(Loss) before tax is RM 55,117,000

Retail trading and car rental
Cumulative Q2: RM 620,000
Cumulative Q3: RM 661,000

Property investment and development
Cumulative Q2: RM 1,411,000
Cumulative Q3: RM 2,311,000

So the Q3 increase of share of profits less losses of associate companies from associate companies Investment holding and trading section is RM 5,877,000. Very confusion will ask BOD during next AGM.

Thank you

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-05-26 22:24 | Report Abuse

Stockraider, please think carefully. This latest quarter their taxes paid is 2 million. Meaning their real earnings is around rm10 million. They declared in latest QR profit of 28 million, meaning the balance 18 million is just fair value gain, paper profits, not real cash flow into the company.

So is the company really growing? Is the business units growing? Or will management continue to sell parts of successful businesses like inari to pay for their experiments in biotech, fintech and etc.

I believe that is the reason why INSAS is always undervalued. It is very hard to judge future cash flow, future growth, how much INSAS will be with 5-10 years from now.

Management refusal to hire a good manager like SSLEE, Calvintaneng and stockraider to manage INSAS investments is also a worrying issue.

I am sure you guys can do better in growing INSAS business.

Thank you

>>>>>>>

The profit earn by insas is real bcos back by real net cash,

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-27 06:58 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Yes my share account like your only show book gain/loss. When companies pay dividend then we collected the real hard cash. Similarly share of profits less losses of associate companies and financial assets at fair value through profits or losses are only paper gain/loss until you received the hard cash in term of dividend or you cash out by selling the share.
Cash flow from investment activity:
Cumulative Q3 INSAS
Proceeds from disposal of shares in an associate company RM 28,300,000
Dividend received RM 35,056,000

Thank you

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-27 07:01 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
INSAS Business model is as follow:
Revenue generating wholly own or subsidiary companies namely:
1. M&A Securities Sdn Bhd: Effective equity 100%
2. Insas credit & Leasing Sdn Bhd: Effective equity 100%
3. Insas Pacific Rent-A-Car Sdn Bhd: Effective equity 79.5%
4. Roset Limousine Services PTE.ltd: Effective equity 79.5%
5. Tribecar Pte.LTD: Effective equity 63.2%
6. Investment holding and trading in quoted security, currency, derivative, property, service, wine, IT, telecommunication products and etc
Car rental is in very competitive industries with little growth opportunity
M&A Securities Sdn Bhd stock broking and corporate finance advisory in promoting SME companies to list on the ACE and LEAP Market. Less and less broking fees earned nowadays due to many people invest like Philip rather like quack traders with “Sailing” and margin anyhow should remain profitable
Credit and leasing is only for VIP clients with collateral. Very profitable interest charge not more than 12% p.a.for secured loans and not more than 18% p.a.for unsecured loans.
Property investment the return on rental income is poor at current overbuild situation.
Investment holding will continue with its investment strategies to look out for value and growth stocks that generate recurring income and capital gain.

Hence what the management is trying to do is to invest in associate companies (Listed and unlisted) and using INSAS cash to growth these associate companies:
Example:
Inari: Very successful
Ho Hup: Improving
DGSB: Hopeful
Melium Holding (Diffusin fashions, Lifestyle, Dome café): Very challenging (With the aim of listing in Bursa)
Fintech and Biotech: Start up with cash burning, hopeful for a breakthrough.
Total failure: SYF and Omesti (Management control but classified as financial assets at fair value through profit or loss)

Thank you

Posted by Sslee > 2019-05-27 07:05 | Report Abuse

Dear TheContrarian
Winfields Development Pte. Ltd: Effective equity 40%. Investment holding in properties and trading of securities and other financial instruments (Singapore).

Thank you

Posted by 3101575000 > 2019-05-27 10:15 | Report Abuse

Sslee : Thanks for the info。

Posted by TheContrarian > 2019-05-27 10:23 | Report Abuse

Yes Mr Sslee, it's Winfields Development Pte Ltd. Possibly OCBC shares are held through this associated company.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-05-27 17:18 | Report Abuse

Those who bought on raider's recommendation is now down 12%.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-27 19:33 | Report Abuse

Insas is one of the best result for this qtr compare with most of the poor result reported by klse companies this qtr mah...!!

Yes insas is a tower of strength with its huge cash holding loh...!!

This insas is one of the most defensive stock in klse today loh...!!

Buy insas u sleep well loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-27 19:42 | Report Abuse

Why Raider says Philip not smart loh...!!

Insas pays less tax u should be cheering instead of worrying loh..!!

Insas pays less tax bcos Rm 23m of its profits already pays tax or profit exempt from tax mah....!!

1. Associate profit Rm 13m already pays tax thus Insas no need to pay mah.....!!

2. Gain on disposal of Rm 11m due to share disposal no need to pay tax bcos capital gain loh....!!

Mr Thong is a savvy investment banker, just like warren buffet loh...!!
But one thing insas better than berkshire is that insas pays dividend but bershire do not mah.....!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > May 26, 2019 10:24 PM | Report Abuse

Stockraider, please think carefully. This latest quarter their taxes paid is 2 million. Meaning their real earnings is around rm10 million. They declared in latest QR profit of 28 million, meaning the balance 18 million is just fair value gain, paper profits, not real cash flow into the company.

So is the company really growing? Is the business units growing? Or will management continue to sell parts of successful businesses like inari to pay for their experiments in biotech, fintech and etc.

I believe that is the reason why INSAS is always undervalued. It is very hard to judge future cash flow, future growth, how much INSAS will be with 5-10 years from now.

Management refusal to hire a good manager like SSLEE, Calvintaneng and stockraider to manage INSAS investments is also a worrying issue.

I am sure you guys can do better in growing INSAS business.

Thank you

>>>>>>>

The profit earn by insas is real bcos back by real net cash,

Posted by chanky50 > 2019-05-28 10:44 | Report Abuse

It is correct that Berkshire Hathaway is not paying dividend but its 'Price to Book value' based on its last closing price is 1.34. What about Insas?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-05-29 17:15 | Report Abuse

Insas very steady today loh....!!

This is company is a malaysian answer to berkshire hathway mah...!!

Posted by funitec > 2019-06-02 15:49 | Report Abuse

i agree,the company is stable.however waiting for rise is so long. Dividend also so meagre,like groundnuts ,or chicken feed. getting pissed off.unless some action comes.

Posted by shareinvestor88 > 2019-06-02 23:28 | Report Abuse

SELL TP 20c

Posted by SaraInvestment > 2019-06-06 09:07 | Report Abuse

3101575000 INSAS new gem :Dgsb ???

Hold Tight

Posted by Sslee > 2019-06-06 09:28 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
The next gem is on Feb 2020. Insas-wb expired, will Dato' Sri Thong convert his warrent?

Thank you

Posted by SaraInvestment > 2019-06-06 09:36 | Report Abuse

Sslee Dear all,
INSAS Business model is as follow:
Revenue generating wholly own or subsidiary companies namely:
1. M&A Securities Sdn Bhd: Effective equity 100%
2. Insas credit & Leasing Sdn Bhd: Effective equity 100%
3. Insas Pacific Rent-A-Car Sdn Bhd: Effective equity 79.5%
4. Roset Limousine Services PTE.ltd: Effective equity 79.5%
5. Tribecar Pte.LTD: Effective equity 63.2%
6. Investment holding and trading in quoted security, currency, derivative, property, service, wine, IT, telecommunication products and etc
Car rental is in very competitive industries with little growth opportunity
M&A Securities Sdn Bhd stock broking and corporate finance advisory in promoting SME companies to list on the ACE and LEAP Market. Less and less broking fees earned nowadays due to many people invest like Philip rather like quack traders with “Sailing” and margin anyhow should remain profitable
Credit and leasing is only for VIP clients with collateral. Very profitable interest charge not more than 12% p.a.for secured loans and not more than 18% p.a.for unsecured loans.
Property investment the return on rental income is poor at current overbuild situation.
Investment holding will continue with its investment strategies to look out for value and growth stocks that generate recurring income and capital gain.

Hence what the management is trying to do is to invest in associate companies (Listed and unlisted) and using INSAS cash to growth these associate companies:
Example:
Inari: Very successful
Ho Hup: Improving
DGSB: Hopeful
Melium Holding (Diffusin fashions, Lifestyle, Dome café): Very challenging (With the aim of listing in Bursa)
Fintech and Biotech: Start up with cash burning, hopeful for a breakthrough.
Total failure: SYF and Omesti (Management control but classified as financial assets at fair value through profit or loss)

Thank you

Very detailed analysis

Posted by Sslee > 2019-06-06 10:43 | Report Abuse

Dear ciaksai,
If noone convert WB then INSAS NOSH remain at 662 million. With INSAS holding abt 600 million INARI share and many other liquid asset and cash. We can start to accumulate 32.9% and call EGM to take over the control of INSAS..
If Dato' Sri Thong convert then he trigger the 33% conditional MGO at price minimum RM1+ WB at price at the date of conversion.

Thank you

Posted by 4444 > 2019-06-06 11:12 | Report Abuse

No convert meaning Thong no-confident in Insas future?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-06-06 11:46 | Report Abuse

Covert or no convert is a strategic issue & not an issue of confidence mah....!!

Thong hold 32.9% ,if he convert it will trigger GO at Rm 1.00, once his holding cross 33% loh...!!

If Thong rope in his brother shareholding, it will trigger GO only when it cross 50% loh....!!

That will require him to take up at least another Rm 500m to do the General Offer loh...!!

U think the benefit v cost lah....!!
Thong already in control of Insas with his 32.9 % do he need to buyout the whole insas leh ??

On the otherhand buying out the whole insas maybe a very good idea too, since Insas is undervalue....he can sapu the whole company for enormous huge profit at cheap cheap price loh.....!! But then unlikely to be successful unless he is willing to offer Rm 1.50 at least loh...!!

Thong need to raise personal funding at least Rm 600m in order to launch a General OFFER to take it private, if it is unsuccessful will cost him around Rm 1.5 million loh....!!

The other strategy is to do a selective capital repayment using INSAS own resources...in this case, he need not use his own monies loh..!!
But selective capital repayment he need to launch the attack b4 the warrant expiry in order to be efficient loh...!!

Thong need the 75% independent shareholder support bcos his portion of 32.9% cannot vote loh...!!
That will mean the minority will be asking Rm 1.5 to Rm 2.50...now can the company willing to leverage leh ??

If Thong do nothing he will leave the warrant & PA expire he will get back Rm 60m cash for his PA and perhaps call for another round of corporate exercise likely to be another PA with warrant, that will drive up the share price of insas to above Rm 1.00 again loh....!!

Thong need to weigh his option...but for the MINORITY SHAREHOLDER LIKE sslee and raider whatever action Thong take will benefit us bcos we have huge margin of safety mah.....!!

Posted by 4444 > Jun 6, 2019 11:11 AM | Report Abuse

No convert meaning Thong non-confident in Insas future?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-06-06 12:35 | Report Abuse

Dear stockraider,
Dato' Sri Thong deemed intetest 25.05%
His brother Dato Thong deemed interest 11.19%.
With Bahtihan sdn bhd 3.28% family trust.
This mean Dato' Sri Thong and PAC hold 25.05+ 11.19- 3.28= 32.96%.

Thank you

Posted by witchslayer > 2019-06-06 15:14 |

Post removed.Why?