Posted by Angel of KLSE 大马股仙 > 2019-07-03 09:44 | Report Abuse

We push it up to RM2 and make Thong brothers dancing in the banks wearing thong only

Posted by TheContrarian > 2019-07-03 10:32 | Report Abuse

Insas cantek.

Posted by gohku > 2019-07-03 12:18 | Report Abuse

I am surprise, not many people recognise this wonderful gem except for a few like sslee, stockraider, Fabien and leno.

Insas Nta already Rm 2.54, it is making monies now and has net cash of rm 550m or rm 0.79 per share and trading at low Pe and has positive cashflow.

Its holdings on inari share alone is valued above insas market capitalisation, thus that warrant a strong buy on this counter.

As sslee and stockraider mention that the expiry of insas warrant in feb 2020, will give further support to insas share price, i have collected some insas at rm 0.785 and i hope can make good profit on this stock.

Good luck for all the insas investors and supporters.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-03 12:54 | Report Abuse

Raider advice slow & steady collect loh....!!

It is building momentum b4 its share price explode upward strongly mah.......!!

Go and buy insas hathaway, as this is one of the very best value investment stock, plus it pays reasonable good dividend too...!!

Go Go Go....!!

Posted by Fabien "The Efficient Capital Allocater" > 2019-07-03 15:19 | Report Abuse

if MGO does happen, it can't be at this price. it's absurd.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-03 15:48 | Report Abuse

If the GO is trigger due to exercise of warrant at Rm 1.00, then the offer price for GO will be Rm 1.00, however we can chose to accept or reject the offer price loh...!!

Posted by Fabien "The Efficient Capital Allocater" > Jul 3, 2019 3:19 PM | Report Abuse

if MGO does happen, it can't be at this price. it's absurd.

Posted by goodguess > 2019-07-03 16:24 | Report Abuse

From the edge report, I think they will push insas sightly above 1 ringgit so that people will convert the warrants. Otherwise they will have to GO. Most likely price they offer is 1.20 if no conversion from others. From now till next year 50% profit if buy now.
Prediction only buy at your own risks. Haha

Posted by Junqi > 2019-07-03 20:58 | Report Abuse

Building castles in the air loh

Posted by Angel of KLSE 大马股仙 > 2019-07-04 08:20 | Report Abuse

Price up to RM2, i build hanging gardens of babylon

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 22:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 05:21 | Report Abuse

Building castles in the sky. Revenue has been steadily dropping. Returns are a non cash rerating of assets and not due to operating profits. The reinvestments of dividends which should be put into worthy businesses that generate every more cash flow or to buy back stock to reward investors, none are being implemented. Instead loss making pipe dreams form the basis of new invested businesses, burning returns and profits.

Yes, insas is a regular mini Berkshire.

Instead of saying insas is the most undervalued stock in Bursa, raider does not sell to go there extra step and find out why Bursa investors are not putting money into INSAS and choose to stay away instead.

In fact sslee and raider has never once touched on the cons of the investment but choose to only look at the pros of INSAS.

Never look to share price to explain how your business is doing. Look at what the business is doing, that explains the share price.

Share price up doesn't always mean business is good. Share price down doesn't always man business is bad.

The one and only way share price is guaranteed to go up is when the revenue and cash generated versus the debt and share dilution deceased next year compared to this year.

Will INSAS major share holder do an mgo at INSAS "fair value"? Impossible. They cheap.
Will INSAS get a major contract/major rerating of inar/big IPO this year? Impossible.
Will numoni suddenly have widespread usage versus alipay/wechat/boost? Impossible. Loss making.
Will biotech suddenly make money and a huge discovery? Impossible. It is based in dead town Brunei without a full research support from peers in Europe, USA and Singapore. Loss making.
Will tribecar be profitable? Most likely never. If similar to grab/Uber, you will have the increase if revenue without the comfort of profits for a very very long time. Yes loss making and cash burning.
Will their clothing line every pick up? No. The designs are not innovative. The pricing is bad. They have no intention of using internet to do online/offline retailing. Answer is: impossible in comparison to retail Giants Uniqlo, h&m and Zara which is benchmark. Lower prices, better service, better locations, better designs.
How efficient is the returns from the stockbroking/financial management company? Answer: do you use their services? Most likely not. Majority of traders use Jupiter, rakuten, or any of the major banks to do their share trading services. The days of huge returns from being a remiser is long long gone.

What clarity do you have that INSAS will double it's revenues/earnings next year? None. Revenue, can flow and earnings are dropping. The only value (trap) you have is the perceived value of inari shares. Which they are selling every quarter along with the dividends to pay for their operational needs and fund loss making ventures. One day the golden egg will be gone.

These are the cons of INSAS, the mini Berkshire Hathaway.

Not a single growth trigger in place. Only rerating of existing assets.

Dumpster diving, thinking that you have found deep value that only you know of and hoping one day other people will catch on. The last time insas broke rm1 was in 2014. Waiting 5 years for insas to go back to rm1 and getting 2 cent dividend in between ( which is unsustainable).

I remembered when I bought yinson at 1.15, and they started the fpso business but doing a 3:2 rights issue at rm1 to raise cash for business expansion. I bought in and kept faith, knowing that YINSON treated me as a partner/owner. Today yinson is going to be a 7 billion dollar company, while INSAS forever remains a smallcap and " most undervalued company in Bursa". I think in January yinson had shown that it was far more undervalued than INSAS, but people are slowly realizing its intrinsic value. Ql at pe50 for so long is also for to investors realizing its intrinsic value and not selling for any reason whatever. Topglov at pe32 is far more undervalued than INSAS.

Let's face an ugly truth: insas at pe6 is simply because no one believes the business will amount to anything and grow further.

>>>>>>>>

stockraider Revisiting an old article from sslee on Insas. All the fundamental finding still valid loh!
This stock is making a 2nd attempt to break Rm 0.90 over the next 1 to 2 mths loh...!!

Raider see eventual target above Rm 1.00 by year end or by the latest chinese new year loh..!!

Posted by Angel of KLSE 大马股仙 > 2019-07-05 07:15 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-05 08:55 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
How do you value your investment holding (quoted securities) asset?
So INSAS Investment holding asset (quoted securities and bonds), bank deposit, money lending and Inari (which generating dividend/interest/income/share of profit less loss) are considered as rerating of existing assets?
Do you know Insas book value of RM1.10 ten years ago, has increased by a total of RM1.44 to RM2.54 in 2018, or a high CAGR of 8.8% over the last 10 years?
Is revenue growth more important than profit growth? When the fact is INSAS derived profit growth from share of profit of associate companies.
Do you know associate company only given a book value of RM 357,628,000 in INSAS balance sheet? So how are you going to value 600+ million of Inari share?
Do not just argue for argument’s sake, please take out a pen and calculator and work out the Net Current Assets Value, Graham net-net value and etc
“The success in investing is not from buying things good, but buying things well” Howard Marks

Note: Your QL is now market cap 11 billion company with net profit to shareholder for the past 5 year as below (‘000):
216,743 206,236 195,921 192,079 191,400
Is this profit growth satisfactory and who is building castle in the air?

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 09:51 | Report Abuse

Very good reply from sslee loh...!!

Look here loh....!!

Insas earnings cagr 8.8% pa over 10 years basing on NTA of Rm 1.44 which is 10 yrs ago, if u use current share price Rm 0.815 we will be talking of return over cagr over 14% pa loh...!!

This is how fantastic return of insas....thats why raider says Insas hathaway is exactly same business model like Berkshire hathaway loh..!!

Posted by Sslee > Jul 5, 2019 8:55 AM | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
How do you value your investment holding (quoted securities) asset?
So INSAS Investment holding asset (quoted securities and bonds), bank deposit, money lending and Inari (which generating dividend/interest/income/share of profit less loss) are considered as rerating of existing assets?
Do you know Insas book value of RM1.10 ten years ago, has increased by a total of RM1.44 to RM2.54 in 2018, or a high CAGR of 8.8% over the last 10 years?
Is revenue growth more important than profit growth? When the fact is INSAS derived profit growth from share of profit of associate companies.
Do you know associate company only given a book value of RM 357,628,000 in INSAS balance sheet? So how are you going to value 600+ million of Inari share?
Do not just argue for argument’s sake, please take out a pen and calculator and work out the Net Current Assets Value, Graham net-net value and etc
“The success in investing is not from buying things good, but buying things well” Howard Marks

Note: Your QL is now market cap 11 billion company with net profit to shareholder for the past 5 year as below (‘000):
216,743 206,236 195,921 192,079 191,400
Is this profit growth satisfactory and who is building castle in the air?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 10:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 10:27 | Report Abuse

this is what warren buffet says about companies that are good but under bad management. And make no mistake, the management of insas and DGSB is not a good one. What happens after disposal? they throw the money again into unproven new business units like food and manufacturing. An IT company?

https://youtu.be/T1D9AlhNwAQ?t=8144


AND MAKE NO MISTAKE RAIDER, I AM NOT LAUGHING AT DGSB. I AM DIRECTLY LAUGHING AT YOU/

LAUGHING AT YOU BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO POST LONG LONG MESSAGE.

LIKE TO TALK COCK AS IF YOU ARE SO SMART AND OTHERS SOHAI.

LIKE TO POST SO SMART MESSAGE.

BUT NEVER READ ANY REPORTS OR ANNUAL INFORMATION AT ALL.

SIMPLY SAY DGSB SHARE PRICE JUMP FROM 4.5 SEN TO 9 SEN.

WITHOUT READING FIRST TO SEE WHAT HAPPEN.

WTHOUT UNDERSTAND FIRST BEFORE COMMENT.

JUST SIMPLY TAKE A SHIT EVERYWHERE AND LIE TO PEOPLE.

YES STOCKRAIDER I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

AND ONLY YOU.

WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MEANT BY REVERSE SPLIT.

BUT THINK SHARE PRICE DOUBLE IN 1 MONTH.

BUT OF COURSE THAT IS HOW MOST COMPANIES CON NEW INVESTORS TO MAKE THEM THINK BUSINESS SUDDENLY VERY GOOD.

BUT MARKET CAP AND SHARE PRICE STILL THE SAME, ONLY HALF THE NOSH AND EQUALIZE THE SHARE PRICE.

SO FUNNY, DIDN'T KNOW STOCKRAIDER IS A NEW INVESTOR UNTIL TODAY. BUT STILL DONT ADMIT SHAME AND DONT KNOW WHAT IS A 2:1 REVERSE SPLT.

I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

but more, i am sad for you. you think dgsb is doing good. but do you think the money is going to you? no way my office boy. it is going to another weird investment food and manufacturing, which is a totally different industry.
If Google decide one day to sell all their IT business and buy over kenny rogers and lafarge to " expand their business", do you smile and laugh and clap?

Clap Clap Clap.

You should be asking the very first question, WHY FOOD?

>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 10:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 10:41 | Report Abuse

So you admit that you only like to dream and never base your comments on reality?

I SEE. SO STOCKRAIDER ONLY KNOW HOW TO PROVOKE AND MAKE NONSENSE COMMENTS WITHOUT THINKING FIRST?

NICE DOG, WOOF WOOF.

MY DOG ALSO BARKS A LOT, BUT NEVER USES THE BRAIN TO THINK FIRST BEFORE BARKING.

ARE YOU A DOG YEAR TOO?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 10:36 AM | Report Abuse
This Philip is sohai loh...!! If Dgsb can double in 1 mth is it not every investor dream leh ??

This shows that insas has invested in a gem loh....!!

I don understand why u say INSAS badly manage when it grows its profits & shareholder funds at a compound rate of 9% pa for the past 10 yr without fail mah...!!

Surely at this type of growth insas is well manage mah....!!

Why shareholder funds or net assets growth, this is what warren buffet measure Berkshire hathaway performance every yr loh...!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 5, 2019 10:27 AM | Report Abuse

this is what warren buffet says about companies that are good but under bad management. And make no mistake, the management of insas and DGSB is not a good one. What happens after disposal? they throw the money again into unproven new business units like food and manufacturing. An IT company?

https://youtu.be/T1D9AlhNwAQ?t=8144


AND MAKE NO MISTAKE RAIDER, I AM NOT LAUGHING AT DGSB. I AM DIRECTLY LAUGHING AT YOU/

LAUGHING AT YOU BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO POST LONG LONG MESSAGE.

LIKE TO TALK COCK AS IF YOU ARE SO SMART AND OTHERS SOHAI.

LIKE TO POST SO SMART MESSAGE.

BUT NEVER READ ANY REPORTS OR ANNUAL INFORMATION AT ALL.

SIMPLY SAY DGSB SHARE PRICE JUMP FROM 4.5 SEN TO 9 SEN.

WITHOUT READING FIRST TO SEE WHAT HAPPEN.

WTHOUT UNDERSTAND FIRST BEFORE COMMENT.

JUST SIMPLY TAKE A SHIT EVERYWHERE AND LIE TO PEOPLE.

YES STOCKRAIDER I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

AND ONLY YOU.

WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MEANT BY REVERSE SPLIT.

BUT THINK SHARE PRICE DOUBLE IN 1 MONTH.

BUT OF COURSE THAT IS HOW MOST COMPANIES CON NEW INVESTORS TO MAKE THEM THINK BUSINESS SUDDENLY VERY GOOD.

BUT MARKET CAP AND SHARE PRICE STILL THE SAME, ONLY HALF THE NOSH AND EQUALIZE THE SHARE PRICE.

SO FUNNY, DIDN'T KNOW STOCKRAIDER IS A NEW INVESTOR UNTIL TODAY. BUT STILL DONT ADMIT SHAME AND DONT KNOW WHAT IS A 2:1 REVERSE SPLT.

I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

but more, i am sad for you. you think dgsb is doing good. but do you think the money is going to you? no way my office boy. it is going to another weird investment food and manufacturing, which is a totally different industry.
If Google decide one day to sell all their IT business and buy over kenny rogers and lafarge to " expand their business", do you smile and laugh and clap?

Clap Clap Clap.

You should be asking the very first question, WHY FOOD?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 10:49 | Report Abuse

If u r so concern of profit make must go to u, then please ask yourself how much profit QL and how much of it, is distributed to shareholders every year leh ??

Please note the proceeds of dgsb thailand disposal will stay with the company but about 8% of it will be distributed to the DGSB shareholder mah....!!

The balance funds remain with the company is just fine for me, bcos insas hathaway is a savvy investor loh...!! 9% cagr pa growth is better than fixed deposits 4% pa loh...!!


I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

but more, i am sad for you. you think dgsb is doing good. but do you think the money is going to you? no way my office boy. it is going to another weird investment food and manufacturing, which is a totally different industry.
If Google decide one day to sell all their IT business and buy over kenny rogers and lafarge to " expand their business", do you smile and laugh and clap?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 11:15 | Report Abuse

Again with bullshit and talk cock and mixing lies without looking at the truth in totality.

YEAR REVENUE PROFIT
2019* 133* 64* (dividend paid 13.26 million)
2018 341 90 (dividend paid 6.63 million)
2017 347 180
2016 272 77
2015 406 91
2014 276 160
2013 297 62
2012 235 12
2011 235 103
2010 423 53
2009 241 51

3285 949?? (WHERE DID THE MONEY GO?)

let me ask you a very simple question, from the reports total profit is 949M. how much is being burnt away in frivolous activities and loss making business. How many dividend is given out to long suffering investors? if insas so profitable, why are they giving out so much preference shares and interest payments without any new growth triggers? business is on a downward curve.

RAIDER BUY BASED STOCKS ON THE FUTURE PERFORMANCE OR BASED ON THE PAST RESULTS?

>>>>>>>>>

I don understand why u say INSAS badly manage when it grows its profits & shareholder funds at a compound rate of 9% pa for the past 10 yr without fail mah...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 11:26 | Report Abuse

I can see that they have NTA Rm 2.54 per share & growing from NTA Rm 1.54 10 yrs ago thus your comment is not true loh...bcos they are positively growing their wealth mah...!!

If u ask where the money goes, it is use for acquisition of new business and substantial increase in cash holding loh...!!

Thats why insas is growing steadily like berkshire thru careful steady invesment & prudence fund management like what had been done by berkshire mah...!!

Generally the reply from sslee tell u all, but u like an ostrich refuse to listen this loud & clear fact mah...!!


Dear Philip,
How do you value your investment holding (quoted securities) asset?
So INSAS Investment holding asset (quoted securities and bonds), bank deposit, money lending and Inari (which generating dividend/interest/income/share of profit less loss) are considered as rerating of existing assets?
Do you know Insas book value of RM1.10 ten years ago, has increased by a total of RM1.44 to RM2.54 in 2018, or a high CAGR of 8.8% over the last 10 years?
Is revenue growth more important than profit growth? When the fact is INSAS derived profit growth from share of profit of associate companies.
Do you know associate company only given a book value of RM 357,628,000 in INSAS balance sheet? So how are you going to value 600+ million of Inari share?
Do not just argue for argument’s sake, please take out a pen and calculator and work out the Net Current Assets Value, Graham net-net value and etc
“The success in investing is not from buying things good, but buying things well” Howard Marks

Note: Your QL is now market cap 11 billion company with net profit to shareholder for the past 5 year as below (‘000):
216,743 206,236 195,921 192,079 191,400
Is this profit growth satisfactory and who is building castle in the air?

Posted by Jason Gilbert Ho > 2019-07-05 12:07 | Report Abuse

i think stockraider here is not so smart to challenge philip with his not so satisfactory return on results. Even if QL is something that is taking time to consolidate due to high PE, the revenue and earnings is growing year after year. Sifu Philip did say he bought it in 2009.

His investment in Yinson though is even more exemplary. stockraider says it is a overvalued company, but philips share of the company is very impressive, considering that yinson is now a 7.4 billion dollar company.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 12:15 | Report Abuse

Most importantly raider insas is beating Philip QL mah....!!

Posted by Jason Gilbert Ho > Jul 5, 2019 12:07 PM | Report Abuse

i think stockraider here is not so smart to challenge philip with his not so satisfactory return on results. Even if QL is something that is taking time to consolidate due to high PE, the revenue and earnings is growing year after year. Sifu Philip did say he bought it in 2009.

WAIT UNTIL THIS YINSON CRASH & TRADE AT ARMADA PRICE TODAY LOH...!!
REMEMBER FEW YEARS BACK ARMADA TRADE AT RM 4.00 LOH...!!
YINSON HAS NO MARGIN OF SAFETY RIGHT NOW LOH...!!
BETTER SELL YOUR YINSON & BUY ARMADA NOW A BETTER INVESTMENT LOH..!!
His investment in Yinson though is even more exemplary. stockraider says it is a overvalued company, but philips share of the company is very impressive, considering that yinson is now a 7.4 billion dollar company.

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 12:27 | Report Abuse

Haha stockraider wants to win at all costs. I can respect that. Any more good calls sifu raider? End of the month insas 90 cents?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 12:34 | Report Abuse

U don have to call anybody sifu loh...we are talking of investment principle mah...!!

Insas v QL is actually a fight of insas margin of safety investment v QL so call overvalue quality business mah....!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 5, 2019 12:27 PM | Report Abuse

Haha stockraider wants to win at all costs. I can respect that. Any more good calls sifu raider? End of the month insas 90 cents?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 12:59 | Report Abuse

Dear sslee, I advise you to put the pen and calculator first behind and don't take it out until you understand a little bit better how your business works, then you take it out because you can spin any sort of value to the stock as for your opinion of how the business is going to do in future.

Do you know why Berkshire dropped book value calculations this year annual meeting? It is because NTA and book value alone is a very poor indicator of the strength of a business.

Warren was referring exactly to this particular type of business INSAS, and why business performance comes first and valuations then second.

1. Very simple, how easy is it to sell 600 million inari share off market it on market without crashing it's value? Are you naive enough to think you will get full value for it compared to current share price, or there will be a big buyer for inari share. Face facts, big buyers will want a discount, just as buyers for INSAS are valuing it at a discount. Only amateurs think that balance sheet on paper and real life valuations are the same.

2. Book value of INSAS is 1.7 billion. Are you willing to pay up for INSAS shares? Why not? And why do you think other people will pay 1.7 billion for INSAS shares when they are getting 13 million a year in dividends? Preference shares? Why?

3. Is it growing? Yes. Will it continue to grow? Yes. Has it grown for past 5 years? Yes. Do you know exactly what the business if QL will perform 5 years from now? No one knows. But what certainty do I have? Every year the business is growing more than it did last year. So how do YOU know it will not improve it's double digits growth prediction by QL CEO for the next 5 years?

How long have you and raider u held INSAS? You attempt to say you bought a wonderful business, when there performance has not even been there, revenue dropping, earnings dropping.

And you think it will be a good earning company in future?


>>>>>>>>>

Sslee Dear Philip,
How do you value your investment holding (quoted securities) asset?
So INSAS Investment holding asset (quoted securities and bonds), bank deposit, money lending and Inari (which generating dividend/interest/income/share of profit less loss) are considered as rerating of existing assets?
Do you know Insas book value of RM1.10 ten years ago, has increased by a total of RM1.44 to RM2.54 in 2018, or a high CAGR of 8.8% over the last 10 years?
Is revenue growth more important than profit growth? When the fact is INSAS derived profit growth from share of profit of associate companies.
Do you know associate company only given a book value of RM 357,628,000 in INSAS balance sheet? So how are you going to value 600+ million of Inari share?
Do not just argue for argument’s sake, please take out a pen and calculator and work out the Net Current Assets Value, Graham net-net value and etc
“The success in investing is not from buying things good, but buying things well” Howard Marks

Note: Your QL is now market cap 11 billion company with net profit to shareholder for the past 5 year as below (‘000):
216,743 206,236 195,921 192,079 191,400
Is this profit growth satisfactory and who is building castle in the air?

Thank you
05/07/2019 8:55 AM

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-05 13:00 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Just need to read the Balance Sheet of 2009 and 2019 to know where did total profit of 949M go?

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 13:09 | Report Abuse

What a stupid comment loh ??

If berkshire had sticked with bookvalue calculation for 60 yrs and just drop its bookvalue calculation recently, do u not think book value is a very good measurement leh ??

If not what the hell ?? Warren bookvalue as a basis of measurement for more than 60 long years leh ??

So do not belittle time & tested book value measurement loh...!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 5, 2019 12:59 PM | Report Abuse

Dear sslee, I advise you to put the pen and calculator first behind and don't take it out until you understand a little bit better how your business works, then you take it out because you can spin any sort of value to the stock as for your opinion of how the business is going to do in future.

Do you know why Berkshire dropped book value calculations this year annual meeting? It is because NTA and book value alone is a very poor indicator of the strength of a business.

Warren was referring exactly to this particular type of business INSAS, and why business performance comes first and valuations then second.

1. Very simple, how easy is it to sell 600 million inari share off market it on market without crashing it's value? Are you naive enough to think you will get full value for it compared to current share price, or there will be a big buyer for inari share. Face facts, big buyers will want a discount, just as buyers for INSAS are valuing it at a discount. Only amateurs think that balance sheet on paper and real life valuations are the same.

2. Book value of INSAS is 1.7 billion. Are you willing to pay up for INSAS shares? Why not? And why do you think other people will pay 1.7 billion for INSAS shares when they are getting 13 million a year in dividends? Preference shares? Why?

3. Is it growing? Yes. Will it continue to grow? Yes. Has it grown for past 5 years? Yes. Do you know exactly what the business if QL will perform 5 years from now? No one knows. But what certainty do I have? Every year the business is growing more than it did last year. So how do YOU know it will not improve it's double digits growth prediction by QL CEO for the next 5 years?

How long have you and raider u held INSAS? You attempt to say you bought a wonderful business, when there performance has not even been there, revenue dropping, earnings dropping.

And you think it will be a good earning company in future?

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 13:33 | Report Abuse

This is the difference between me and you. My remark was meant as a qualitative statement, whereas you only think on the quantitative.

Instead if reading the numbers, understand for once what story the numbers are trying to tell you. Don't be so simpleminded as stockraider just to parrot out numbers.

My qualitative statement is meant to teach you and remind you why INSAS shares have been depressed for so long, because you seem to be the only one to not care or want to understand why INSAS shares has been a such low levels not for weeks or months but in fact for years!.

If I had to hold INSAS shares for so long without the undervaluation being balanced, in can only mean one thing.

There is a structural fault with INSAS.

Or did you think that for the last 5 years everyone else is wrong and you are suddenly right on the valuation of INSAS?

Come on, please.

If you don't know who the Patsy is at the poker table after 30 minutes of playing, then you are the Patsy.

>>>>>>>>>

Sslee Dear Philip,
Just need to read the Balance Sheet of 2009 and 2019 to know where did total profit of 949M go?

Thank you
05/07/2019 1:00 PM

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 13:39 | Report Abuse

Remember this loh...!!

Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

Posted by Angel of KLSE 大马股仙 > 2019-07-05 14:08 | Report Abuse

The god of Stock Trading say hold a gem stock for 20 years, only time will tell the true value of insas

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 15:07 | Report Abuse

Stockraider attend MLM think he is getting a good deal for cheap price. Meanwhile, he is actually being conned by JJPTR that he is offering for deep value, while actual fact is his investment stuck is twilight zone for 5 years.

Only after fail on short term trading mechanics then he go around saying he is a long term investing. But in reality, his money is stuck in lala land.


>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 1:39 PM | Report Abuse

Remember this loh...!!

Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

Posted by Outliar > 2019-07-05 16:01 | Report Abuse

Phillip, what do you think of GCB?

Posted by Ymchan > 2019-07-05 17:51 | Report Abuse

https://9shares.my/〈一股一观点〉─-富豪酒後叹股价bursa最低估-明年需

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-05 18:05 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
Thank you for teaching me how to read into the qualitative statement and understand what story the numbers are trying to tell. In the market many people ready to empty their pocket for the perceived value and there are also many snake oil salesmen peddling you their cure all medicine with many tall tales of even curing cancer. So my take is qualitative statement need to substantiate with quantitative calculation/evident or else it is building castles in the sky, and everyone will rush to the only exist when the bubble burst.
By the way, I will gatecrash your Bak Kut Teh breakfast dates with Stockraider and CharlesT as I love to meet all of you.

Thank you
P/S: Mr. Koon is right in saying the best catalyst to drive up market value is the perceived growth story as everyone are chasing after growth or chasing after two birds in the bush rather than holding on to the one bird in their hand.
As for me I believe a bird in hand is worth two in the bush but I am learning how to chase two birds in the bush too.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-05 20:52 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
The story behind INSAS Balance Sheet Numbers:
As at 31/03/2019
Total non-current assets RM 825,432,000
Total current assets RM 1,531,914,000
TOTAL LIABILITIES RM 632,992,000
Number of shares issued: 663,006,342 (excluding 30,327,291 treasury shares)
Close market price of INSAS RM 0.815 on 5th July 2019
Market Capital: RM 540,350,168

What story the above number tell you is theoretically: You need RM 540,350,168 to bought over INSAS and then you only need to liquidate RM (632,992,000+540,350,168) =1,173,342,168 of Current asset to pay for your purchase and settle the total liabilities.
And you will get for free of charge:
Total non-current assets of RM 825,432,000
Current assets of RM (1,531,914,000 -1,173,342,168) = 358,570,000

Thank you

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-05 21:19 | Report Abuse

Insas

Return on Assets 4.09
Return on Equity 5.65
Return on Total Capital 3.40
Return on Invested Capital 4.98

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 22:29 | Report Abuse

This Philip is the salesman type of personality no financial management Skills loh...!!
No matter how good is your sales growth u must always convert it to profit loh..!!
That call for prudent financial management & use of quantitative analysis as suggested by raiders as a defensive safeguard for investor loh.....!!

Raider had met many growth orientated business men like Philip type, they can talk of exciting grandiose sales growth, but at the end ,their business went bankrupt, just bcos they do not know how to exercise financial restraints , management & prudent quantitative analysis loh...!!.

Insas boss know how to convert his business plan to profits, that what u want for a complete businessman who can ensure your company in safe hand & can grow & sustain profit loh...!!

(US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip

Stockraider attend MLM think he is getting a good deal for cheap price. Meanwhile, he is actually being conned by JJPTR that he is offering for deep value, while actual fact is his investment stuck is twilight zone for 5 years.

Only after fail on short term trading mechanics then he go around saying he is a long term investing. But in reality, his money is stuck in lala land.

Always be prudent & do not overpay and make sure got margin of safety loh...!!

The coffin of losses in klse are filled with many investors who overpay loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 1:39 PM | Report Abuse

Remember this loh...!!

Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 22:49 | Report Abuse

This is the most childish thinking I have heard. It is sad because I used to think that sslee being a smart man might have learned a little bit about running a business. Sadly, working for other bosses all his life, being in a safe mode where he doesn't have to worry about where his next paycheck is coming from he has lost his sense of danger.

Theoretically what he say is true ( on accounting books).

The question remains: why does no one do this is practical real life?

Answer: if it was practical the owners would have found a way to borrow money/JV and do the deal directly to take the company private. ( Spare me the management bullshit they feed you). Many companies like WEIDA etc have taken their companies off listing status with no issue.

But no bank will borrow that kind of imaginary returns. If they wanted to, th and howey could aggressively reward themselves ( and all shareholders) by giving out extra dividends for them to build up war chest to privatise.

You still stick on quantitative details but lack the qualitative details.

For qualitative you are surprisingly naive. You accept that it is ok for management unable to buy shares because they will trigger MGO( and they do not have finances to handle the mandatory offer) but do not consider the dynamics of this issue.

Are you naive to think that minority investors to agree for management to buy shares back and no need to trigger mgo? Let them build their position up to 51% and control the company in everything but in name and do away like protasco?

Your story behind the numbers is nothing but MORE NUMBERS.

Tell me what is happening at INSAS. Why is the revenue and profits dropping? Why is the investments in new gruesome businesses at the cost of selling golden egg inari? Most importantly, tell me WHY IS THE MARKET VALUING A COMPANY WORRY 1.7 BILLION AT ONLY 562 MILLION? The numbers tell you a story. You ignore the story at your own cost.

To understand qualitative versus quantitative thinking, I recommend you to watch Chernobyl the 5 part series from HBO. As a chemical engineer I am sure you would love the very in detail plant operations and technical stories that pull you in.

And you will finally understand how blindly following numbers and instructions without understanding the context in which the situation arose, aka making the numbers fit your story caused one of the most horrific nuclear disasters in human history.

Thank you.

>>>>>>>>

Sslee Dear all,
The story behind INSAS Balance Sheet Numbers:
As at 31/03/2019
Total non-current assets RM 825,432,000
Total current assets RM 1,531,914,000
TOTAL LIABILITIES RM 632,992,000
Number of shares issued: 663,006,342 (excluding 30,327,291 treasury shares)
Close market price of INSAS RM 0.815 on 5th July 2019
Market Capital: RM 540,350,168

What story the above number tell you is theoretically: You need RM 540,350,168 to bought over INSAS and then you only need to liquidate RM (632,992,000+540,350,168) =1,173,342,168 of Current asset to pay for your purchase and settle the total liabilities.
And you will get for free of charge:
Total non-current assets of RM 825,432,000
Current assets of RM (1,531,914,000 -1,173,342,168) = 358,570,000

Thank you
05/07/2019 8:52 PM

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-05 22:52 | Report Abuse

I know exactly why INSAS is being valued so low for the last 5 years. It is not a short term depression which will quickly recover in time.

No, just like Chernobyl this is a structural problem.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-05 23:29 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-06 09:11 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip
Price to Earnings Ratio = Price per Share ÷ Earnings per Share (EPS)
Let’s do some quantitative figure on QL
QL P/E of 51.43 means that at current prices, buyers pay RM 51.43 for every RM1 in trailing yearly profits
The higher the P/E ratio, the higher the price tag of a business, relative to its trailing earnings. That is not a good or a bad thing per se, but a high P/E does imply buyers are optimistic about the future
P/E ratios primarily reflect market expectations around earnings growth rates. When earnings grow, the 'E' increases, over time. That means unless the share price increases, the P/E will reduce in a few years. A lower P/E should indicate the stock is cheap relative to others -- and that may attract buyers
QL earnings per share over last 3 years increase by:
5.09% 5.26% 2.00%
Average increase of 4.11%
This gave QL PEG Ratio of 51.43/4.11= 12.51
A lower ratio is better and a higher ratio is worse

The 'Price' in P/E reflects the market capitalization of the company. Thus, the metric does not reflect cash or debt held by the company. In theory, a company can lower its future P/E ratio by using cash or debt to invest in growth.
Such expenditure might be good or bad, in the long term, but the point here is that the balance sheet is not reflected by this ratio.
QL Balance sheet:
Trade receivables: RM 300,876,000
Cash and cash equivalents: RM 260,331,000
Long term borrowings (LT Debts/Total Equity: 30%): RM611,313,000
Short term-bankers acceptance RM 279,923,000:
Other short term borrowings: RM 297,368,000
Payables: RM 342,799,000
So what all these figures tell you about QL:

I had worked for multinational and owner run companies and the different on their culture are very obvious multinational manager know how to butter up their salary boss with overpromises but under-delivered with fantastic excuses and get away from it. In owner run company we under promise but over delivered, this is the only way to survive in an owner run company.
I admit I am 58 year now and do not have the strength to chase after a hot chick (Hot growth stock), I am satisfied with holding on to my old lady.

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/198128.jsp
Refer above: How Value can be Unlocked in Deep Value Stock? INSAS

Thank you

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-06 12:06 | Report Abuse

This right here is why I still hold QL from 1 billion company to 11 billion, topglov from 1 billion to 9 billion and yinson from 1 billion to today 7 billion.

You do not buy a stock for trailing yearly profits, you buy it for future returns.

Did I know today yinson will be winning marlim, whale park and Ghana fpso tenders for 8 billion USD in charter contracts? No. How could I? But the numbers and trajectory of their project wins, their capital position with banks, their management story is told by the numbers and give me confidence.

Did I know ql was going to take up family mart franchise, move from chicken eggs into seafood and surimi and plantations? No. Of course not. But same with the trajectory and numbers are telling you a story about the business.

You keep using just 1 metric PE to justify buying INSAS and not investing in QL.

The numbers of INSAS is telling you a story. Why for 5 years is the share price dropping and rangebound below rm1, while the NTA goes up to 2.4? Until today you cannot answer this question. Or you refuse to answer the reasoning behind many investors including kyy, OTB, myself and many institutions sold and refuse to buy INSAS, even as the "NTA" keeps going up.

But yes. You do not buy a company for the trailing yearly profits, but you make a qualitative judgement on the future yearly profits based on the numbers and performance of the company. FYI NTA calculations and debt also do not factor into in price/earnings.

And a simple basic logic:

For a fixed deposit you will always pay P/E = 1. aka 100% certainty on future returns.

For stocks the pe is volatile, as everyone has an intrinsic idea of how much a company can earn in the future. Aka valuation will always change and expand.

NO ONE IS WILLING TO OVERPAY FOR INSAS BECAUSE WE KNOW THE PAST HISTORY, THE PAST BAGGAGE, AND THE FUTURE OF INSAS. NOT EVEN RAIDER AND SSLEE. WHY? IF YOU ARE CONFIDENT RETAINED EARNINGS WILL BE RM5 3-5 YEARS FROM NOW, WHY SELL AT 80 CENTS? WHY DOESN'T INSTITUTION BUY UNTIL REALIZED VALUE OF RM1.25 AND ABOVE? 100% RETURN NOT GOOD? UNLESS IT IS THEORETICAL AND NOT CERTAINTY.

FOR QL WHY AM I AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS HOLDING AT PE51? AND GIVING REALIZED VALUE TO QL AT 11 BILLION? ARE WE BUILDING CASTLES AND CHASING NUMBERS IN THE AIR? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

The simple fact is this: everyone knows QL can perform with a wonderful management. Everyone also knows their total addressable market is so wide ranging and simple to figure out. In fact, as long as you have eggs, seafood and palm oil, someone will buy it from you ( just price is issue, not demand). So when CEO believes QL future revenue within 10 years at 8 billion a year and 600 million in net earnings, from his past performance it is easier to believe than INSAS working out valuations reaching 1.7 billion.

That is why institutions hold. That is why ql owners holding. That is why I hold. Future returns, not trailing yearly profits.

As for INSAS, you are not buying for future profits. You are buying for past glories.

Trapped in the past.

>>>>>>>

trailing yearly profits.

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-06 12:15 | Report Abuse

The figures tell me a wonderful story. How a company is able to take less outside capital than it's peers to grow with far more efficiency. How a company grew:

From 1.4 BILLION in REVENUE AND 106 MILLION PROFIT 10 YEARS AGO
TO. 2.4 BILLION REVENUE AND 159 PROFIT 5 YEARS AGO
TO. 3.6 BILLION REVENUE AND 216 PROFIT TODAY

CEO is telling you projections 8 billion revenue and 600 profit 10 years from now.

So if you are conservative and look at 6 billion revenue and 400 profit 10 years from now with no major competitor to disrupt your business or undersell your prices ( numbers also tell me QL is the lowest cost producer), how would you value QL then? Buy or sell?

I know everyones answer.

Problem is most professional investors know how to value INSAS. Only the amateur ones think they know better.

Good luck.


>>>>>>>>>

QL Balance sheet:
Trade receivables: RM 300,876,000
Cash and cash equivalents: RM 260,331,000
Long term borrowings (LT Debts/Total Equity: 30%): RM611,313,000
Short term-bankers acceptance RM 279,923,000:
Other short term borrowings: RM 297,368,000
Payables: RM 342,799,000
So what all these figures tell you about QL:

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-06 13:00 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
If you, professional investors, big fund managers and INSTITUTIONS holder ready to pay RM 11 billion now with current profit of RM 216 million and will only growth into RM 400-600 million profit in 10 year time then go ahead as no one going to stop you but it is not my cup of tea nor qualified my owner boss demand "rate of return".

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-06 13:14 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-06 13:35 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by gohku > 2019-07-06 14:01 | Report Abuse

I think we should spot this important investment opportunity.

I have followed buy on insas, thanks to the good coverage of sslee and stockraider.

I totally agree to the key highlights of insas mentioned by raider & sslee as below their advice are very good for young people who have limited investment capital, that means capital capital preservation is very important :

Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 11:29 PM | Report Abuse

That is precisely what wrong with Philip keep looking backward & not forward loh....!!

Insas already now moving up mah...!!
Why leh ??

That is bcos they is catalyst that trigger rerating of insas loh!!

Then this sochai Philip ask why Insas so lowly value loh ??
That means he acknowledge Insas undervalue loh...!!

So if a stock LIKE INSAS which highly undervalue & with catalyst that trigger a rerating,it is obvious safe profit making opportunity mah.!!

Sslee is right to spot this opportunity few months back...and thanks to sslee tips...raider ride on this sure win tips from sslee without need holding that long, bcos the catalyst for rerating is already trigger closer to fruitation loh..!!

It is sure win buy for insas loh...!!

Remember loh...!!
Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > 2019-07-06 14:46 | Report Abuse

In terms of capital preservation, I believe sslee and stockraider is a definitely a guide guide with their investments in hengyuan 35, insas past hold 5 years growth and xinquan super undervalued stock of the year.

Thank you.

If course not forgetting dgsb double profit in over month claim by raider.

Very good examples.

Posted by MataKucing > 2019-07-06 15:01 | Report Abuse

buy talam better. 3.5sen later 7sen.100% return.why buy insas.81sen later 1.60 then 100%return. stockraider why insas better than talam?