Posted by chkhooju > 2019-07-18 22:48 | Report Abuse

This chap is still on the loose? I thought he has been recaptured by the Tanjung Rambutan personnel? Pity him. He needs medical attention immediately. He is really very, very sick.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-19 17:39 | Report Abuse

Musang

Since ur jaks up little bit...better lari loh...!!

If not u will lose back all your difficult gain today loh..!!

Posted by dragonslayer > Jul 19, 2019 5:35 PM | Report Abuse

Aiyo..today 1 point for Jaks ..up 2sen...more than mati pucuk insas green half sen...aiyoyo...kikiki

Jaks : 2

Insas : 3

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-19 19:29 | Report Abuse

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 16, 2019 12:12 PM | Report Abuse
this is the message received from heaven, to be conveyed to @ Sslee n raider!
day 1: 1 insas can buy 1 jaks : Result Insas 80 sen. Jaks 82.5 sen
day 2: 2 insas can buy 1 jaks : Result Insas 80 sen. Jaks 79.5 sen
day 3: 3 insas can buy 1 jaks : Result Insas 79.5 sen. Jaks 77.5 sen
day 4: 4 insas can buy 1 jaks : Result Insas 80 sen. Jaks 79.5 sen
hahahaha
deMusangking, your 4 days are done with. The message from heaven revelation say you should do the honor thing like qqq3 lose his bet on Gadang and had to cut his kuku bird. Pity you no more ahmoing form now on.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-19 19:31 | Report Abuse

Hahahaha
deMusangking, the past is baggage and the future is burden. Recommend you to read: The Power of Now. Live in the present a spiritual journey to find their true and deepest self and reach the ultimate in personal growth and spirituality: the discovery of truth and light.
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-19 19:49 | Report Abuse

What Is Margin of Safety?

Margin of safety is a principle of investing in which an investor only purchases securities when their market price is significantly below their intrinsic value. In other words, when the market price of a security is significantly below your estimation of its intrinsic value, the difference is the margin of safety. Because investors may set a margin of safety in accordance with their own risk preferences, buying securities when this difference is present allows an investment to be made with minimal downside risk.

Example of Margin of Safety

As scholarly as Graham was, his principle was based on simple truths. He knew that a stock priced at $1 today could just as likely be valued at 50 cents or $1.50 in the future. He also recognized that the current valuation of $1 could be off, which means he would be subjecting himself to unnecessary risk. He concluded that if he could buy a stock at a discount to its intrinsic value, he would limit his losses substantially. Although there was no guarantee that the stock’s price would increase, the discount provided the margin of safety he needed to ensure that his losses would be minimal.

For example, if he were to determine that the intrinsic value of XYZ’s stock is $162, which is well below its share price of $192, he might apply a discount of 20% for a target purchase price of $130. In this example, he may feel XYZ has a fair value at $192 but he would not consider buying it above its intrinsic value of $162. In order to absolutely limit his downside risk, he sets his purchase price at $130. Using this model, he might not be able to purchase XYZ stock anytime in the foreseeable future. However, if the stock price does decline to $130 for reasons other than a collapse of XYZ’s earnings outlook, he could buy it with confidence.

INSAS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF MARGIN OF SAFETY INVESTMENT LOH...!!

Posted by DK66 > 2019-07-19 20:37 | Report Abuse

Dear Mr Sslee,

I applause your effort in your detailed research on Insas. Despite many differing opinions, I m sure many will agree with you.

If I may ask a question, what is your opinion on the issue raised by the Edge on MGO due to the exercise of the warrants by the major shareholders which resulted in their ownership crossing the threshold. The MGO will be done at RM1 unless the major shareholders are willing to offer more.

Thank You

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-19 21:34 | Report Abuse

Dear DK66,
I bought my first INSAS share on year 2017 and attended the 2017 and 2018 AGM.
Below was what the BOD said about the conditional MGO when the 33% threshold is reached.
http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20180514.pdf
KEY MATTERS DISCUSSED AT THE 55THAGM
DWGK further informed the shareholders that the CEO as a major shareholder of the Company cannot acquire more Insas shares from the market, and the Company cannot continue with its proposed share buyback as such share acquisition and/or buybacks may result in the CEO and persons acting in concert (“PACs”) holding more than33.0% of Insas shares which will then trigger a mandatory takeover offer (“MGO”) on the remaining Insas shares not owned by the CEO and PACs, unless a waiver of such MGO is granted by the Securities Commission and the shareholders of Insas under the Malaysian Code on Take-overs and Mergers. Majority of the shareholders present at the meeting replied to DWGK that if the CEO apply for waiver of MGO, the shareholders will support and approve such waiver

http://www.insas.net/pdf/img-20181226.pdf
KEY MATTERS DISCUSSED AT THE 56THAGM
The Board will continue to look into the “Whitewash” situation in relation to the application to the SC for an exemption from a mandatory offer obligation arising from the exercise of any conversion rights or options into new voting shares and/or as a result of a share buy-back scheme by the Company. Any such application for exemption will require the approval from independent / non-interested shareholders of the Company at a general meeting to waive their rights to receive the mandatory offer.

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/newsbreak-insas-controlling-shareholders-may-seek-waiver
THE controlling shareholders of Insas Bhd, Datuk Seri Thong Kok Khee and his brother Datuk Thong Kok Yun, are said to be mulling seeking a waiver from making a general offer for the company if they decide to convert the company’s warrants in February next year

My conclusion:
Dato’ Sri Thong and his brother is holding 32.98%, this is the reason Dato’ Sri Thong or Insas cannot buy back Insas share for it will trigger 33% conditional MGO. This problem will be solved come next AGM or latest by 25 FEB 2020. Dato Sri’ Thong and Insas will love to buy more Insas share.
The question now is will independent / non-interested shareholders approve such waiver unless Dato’ Sri Thong offer some understanding how he is going to take care of minority shareholder interest? (Special dividend, share dividend, formal dividend policy or etc)

If approval denial, Dato’ Sri Thong and his brother can either still convert the warrant and thus trigger the MGO at price (RM 1.00 + warrant price) or let the warrant unconverted. Redeem the RPS then buy INSAS share from open market and trigger MGO at average last 5 trading day price. In both case independent advisor will be engaged to do valuation and advice whether the offer is reasonable/unreasonable and fair/unfair. It is forgone conclusion the advisor will advice to reject the offer as the offer is unreasonable and unfair.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-19 22:49 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-19 23:10 | Report Abuse

Dear dragonslayer,
The prize catch of INSAS is its 600million+ Inari share and its assets mostly made up of cash and cash equivalent, and other financial assets which are marked-to-market and can be readily converted to equivalent cash value.
It depends on the market price of Inari when independent advisor make valuation of INSAS. Imagine if the valuation come up to be almost RM4, Dato’ Sri Thong has to either increase the offer price or risk MGO fail and he is not allowed to make another MGO within next 1 year period. During this 1 year period Dato’ Sri Thong is defense-less against you, me or any big shark come in and make a hostile take-over of INSAS

Thank you

Posted by Kido Kikidodo > 2019-07-19 23:28 | Report Abuse

if remain at current price, no one will convert to mother share....is it better sold all warrant and buy mother share if still wait for their price to move...

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-19 23:29 | Report Abuse

Correctloh...it is whether he is comfortable with 32.9% holding on insas and still control the company or whether he prefer with more than 50% holding and seal his control on the jewel insas loh...!!

It is highly tempting for him to for go for option 2, as Insas has NTA Rm 2.54 per share (this exclude its hidden reserve} there is huge value can be derived from insas loh...!!

In addition insas, has net cash of Rm 550m, a big chunked of the GO outlay can be finance by these internal fund too loh...!!

If i m Thong, i will start the action now & slowly accumulate my position on insas at Rm 0.795 under nominee and later can still launched a GO at Rm 1.00, after exercising THE warrant at Rm 1.00, the objective is to take his holding at least above 50% mah..!

Posted by Sslee > Jul 19, 2019 11:10 PM | Report Abuse

Dear dragonslayer,
The prize catch of INSAS is its 600million+ Inari share and its assets mostly made up of cash and cash equivalent, and other financial assets which are marked-to-market and can be readily converted to equivalent cash value.
It depends on the market price of Inari when independent advisor make valuation of INSAS. Imagine if the valuation come up to be almost RM4, Dato’ Sri Thong has to either increase the offer price or risk MGO fail and he is not allowed to make another MGO within next 1 year period. During this 1 year period Dato’ Sri Thong is defense-less against you, me or any big shark come in and make a hostile take-over of INSAS

Thank you

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-19 23:29 | Report Abuse

Dear dragonslayer,
The market price of Inari was RM2.53 in early 2018.
When you hold 50% +1 share then no one can take over your company but if you hold 32.98% and your MGO fail. You are then become a sitting duck for those big sharks smelling blood (money). Unless your asset is in-liquid: Hotel, property and land then you have the luxury like Datuk Tiah of TAE offer 66 cents MGO, fail and still able to accumulate from open market at the rate of not more than 2% rolling 6 month for the next 1 year.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-19 23:37 | Report Abuse

REMEMBER GO IS THE BEST & LIKELY Profitable SCENARIO LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 19, 2019 11:29 PM | Report Abuse X

Correctloh...it is whether he is comfortable with 32.9% holding on insas and still control the company or whether he prefer with more than 50% holding and seal his control on the jewel insas loh...!!

It is highly tempting for him to for go for option 2, as Insas has NTA Rm 2.54 per share (this exclude its hidden reserve} there is huge value can be derived from insas loh...!!

In addition insas, has net cash of Rm 550m, a big chunked of the GO outlay can be finance by these internal fund too loh...!!

If i m Thong, i will start the action now & slowly accumulate my position on insas at Rm 0.795 under nominee and later can still launched a GO at Rm 1.00, after exercising THE warrant at Rm 1.00, the objective is to take his holding at least above 50% mah..!

Posted by dragonslayer > Jul 19, 2019 11:35 PM | Report Abuse

Aiyo...yes inari got value there..as long the boss not selling it...still paper value lah..rm1.6..or..rm2.6..make any different or not...paper gain only leh..even he want sell and distribute as special dividend also have to wait mah...when he own more shares in insas...then benefit him more if he decided to distribute the money mah..boss thinking always benefit boss first lah...have to accept the mati pucuk company now lah..aiyoyo..kikiki

Posted by moneykj > 2019-07-20 09:44 | Report Abuse

Go for Kanger

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 12:31 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 12:35 | Report Abuse

The investment potential in insas is in fact more feasible & better compare to empty land in bandar utama {which i describe} bcos in insas case the company is making monies every yr, paying reasonable dividend and i do not need to pay quit rent & assessment every yr loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 12:50 | Report Abuse

The way u talk no standard loh...argue proper way mah...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 13:00 | Report Abuse

no angry mah...the way u talk no standard loh...!!

U can talk insas bad, use ur proper basis loh....why talk bad sslee & raider leh ??

Use brain argue mah...don argue like ponlan loh....!!

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 12:56 PM | Report Abuse

that raider got angry when i say 'anyway.. pray lah for our bro raider!!!!!! '!!!!!!!!!!!!

since raider angri, i pray harder n harder!!!

hahaha

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 13:13 | Report Abuse

Insas Berhad: Low-Risk Arbitrage kcchongnz
Author: kcchongnz | Publish date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019, 1:10 PM

Prelude: This article aims purely to share some finance and investment knowledge. It is not a post to peddle any stock, which I have no interest nor any motivation and have never done that before. If you detest seeing my name or the subject matter, just don’t read it and waste your time. But if you open up your mind and choose to read it, you may learn something interesting in a very important concept in finance and investing. It is your choice folks. Your comments, good or bad, purely on the subject matter, is appreciated.

Deep value asset investing strategy

When it comes to investing in stocks, many cannot distinguish the difference between a great company and a good investment. A great company may not be a good investment if the price is grossly overvalued and vice versa. Those who are in the know also place greater emphasis on earnings of company as earnings in general drive the value and growth of a company and the price of its stock. Often, the company's balance sheet is ignored, even though it has huge amount of hard and marked to market assets way above the market cap of the company. Therefore, asset-rich companies occasionally trade well below its intrinsic value.

Deep asset bargain investing is about having a very conservative measure of intrinsic value, essentially liquidation value, and a large margin of safety, in order to try to buy a stock worth RM1 for, say, 50 sen. Some of the world’s most legendary investors like Ben Graham, Walter Schloss, John Neff, Marty Whitman and many others have made a mint out of this investment approach. In fact, I don’t think there is anyone else who has beaten the record of Walter Schloss who was one of the most influential investors based on his 5 decade long performance from 1955 to 2005, returning a CAGR of 21.3%, almost three times the 7% return of the S&P during the same period. $1000 invested with Walter Schloss with his deep value asset investing in a diversified portfolio would have become $17 million in the 25 years.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 13:15 | Report Abuse

heoretically someone can borrow RM530m from banks to buy up all the shares in the open market at 80 sen, and after gaining control of the company, sell off Inari, Ho Hup and other shares, the and money market funds, strip off the cash in banks, payoff company loan of RM411m and RM130m to holders of Preference shares, and pay the bank loans of RM530m borrowed for this purpose, pocket RM870m cash left over, and still own the business for free.

This arbitrage opportunity as shown in Table 2 in the Appendix is used as a theoretical illustration purpose only. In practice, it is easier said than done though as there are problems in a hostile takeover attempt. At present, the major shareholders control just short of 33% of the outstanding shares of Insas. With another close to 100m warrants and a large portion of Preference shares which can be used as conversion price for the warrants, the major shareholders have a firm grip of the company. However, it would be interesting if the warrants are left to expire worthless in early 2020. If this hostile takeover can be done later by someone with deep pocket, huge reward is awaiting. Even if there is a takeover war going on, share price would also rise and benefit the existing minority shareholders.



Conclusions

Deep value investing is not easy. It requires patience, and a lot of patience. It is not for the faint hearted. Insas has been undervalued for a long time. A catalyst may be required to unlock the value. Fund managers and institutional investors will not be able to endure it as they will be long fired by their investors before value is unlocked due to their temporary under-performance. Most individual investors also have no stomach for it. They will be laughed at by others embarking in this strategy as it does look stupid at times. But if a stock is way undervalued, not only by 10%, 20%, or even 50%, but a much larger discount such as 72% as that of Insas, the probability of success is higher. Of course, nothing is certain in this world. But at least the chance of losing money is very slim as the extreme cheapness and quality assets would have taken care of this. Insas has also been providing satisfactory return over the years, and it is likely continue to do so even if the deep value is not unlocked.

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 13:24 | Report Abuse

What KC says are valid downside of insas loh...!!

But right here i m not saying an outsider trying to unlock value on insas, but the insider owner trying to maximise value on insas and the consequence he indirectly unlocking value mah....!!

The key to this happen is the expiry of insas warrant in 20-2-2020 loh....!!

They is a high chance mkt will rerate too loh...!!

AS USUAL IF U WANT TO BUYOUT THE COMPANY, U WILL RATHER KEEP SHARE PRICE LOW MAH....THATS WHY THE MINORITY SHAREHOLDER FRUSTRATED LOH...!!

THUS INSAS INVESTOR JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT LOH...!!


KC COMMENT,
Conclusions

Deep value investing is not easy. It requires patience, and a lot of patience. It is not for the faint hearted. Insas has been undervalued for a long time. A catalyst may be required to unlock the value. Fund managers and institutional investors will not be able to endure it as they will be long fired by their investors before value is unlocked due to their temporary under-performance. Most individual investors also have no stomach for it. They will be laughed at by others embarking in this strategy as it does look stupid at times. But if a stock is way undervalued, not only by 10%, 20%, or even 50%, but a much larger discount such as 72% as that of Insas, the probability of success is higher. Of course, nothing is certain in this world. But at least the chance of losing money is very slim as the extreme cheapness and quality assets would have taken care of this. Insas has also been providing satisfactory return over the years, and it is likely continue to do so even if the deep value is not unlocked.

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 14:00 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 14:15 | Report Abuse

i m a very panlai investor not a salesman mah....!!

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 20, 2019 2:13 PM | Report Abuse

stockraider ... u r a lousy salesman!!!!!

inspite of ur big banners everri where, yours sales are not improving!!!!!!!

better find another job lah!!!!

hahaha

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 14:44 | Report Abuse

Kes land at 1 Utama is valid sbb it is not liquid

Kes Insas is not the same x sama Insas is listed is very liquid u can buy anytime x payah beli n wait loh

Beli bila ada sign it is going to move mcm volume naik

Klau u beli n tunggu lazimnya u tunggu 2 tahun 3 tahun 5 tahun sampai satu hari nanti u fed up lo x tahan lagi u pun jual lo

Selepas tu 6 months later dia pun naik

Point Sarifah no need to buy Insas n wait lo sbb can buy anytime

In the meantime ada chance harga mungkin jatuh lagi

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 14:47 | Report Abuse

Pariah demusang klau harga warrant melampung naik perlu ka Thong pay more for MGO?

If not Thong siapa wil push the price?

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 14:48 | Report Abuse

Sarifah x tahu kes Insas sgt x minat

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 14:49 | Report Abuse

Sarifah berjiwa IPP tetap unapologetic angkuh dan liar.

Posted by moneypedia > 2019-07-20 15:27 | Report Abuse

aku ingat salamander td ah gon...

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 15:27 | Report Abuse

SarifahSelinder Knp kena beli cepat cepat? 

Booked early? 

It is not like Insas is selling like hot cake 

Malahan Insas is more like dah mati pucuk

20/07/2019 2:57 PM

X

SarifahSelinder Lazimnya mati pucuk is not something ppl fight over for

20/07/2019 2:58 PM

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 15:27 | Report Abuse

Deepfake

Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-20 15:29 | Report Abuse

Lagi lagi pun potensi appreciation in value is not as certain as 1 U land

Posted by shareinvestor88 > 2019-07-20 16:00 | Report Abuse

Sell sell TP 20c

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:05 | Report Abuse

U need to understand a 20% block price is more valuable if the largest shareholder block is only 32.9%, compare to if the largest controlling block is already more than 50% mah....!!

In the insas case the 20% block very valuable here loh...!!

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > Jul 20, 2019 2:45 PM | Report Abuse

Exactly, Icon has answered one of the qualitative questions which kcchongz and sslee never points out.

No one will be willing to buy inari 20% block at this price. The will be a huge discount asked for sure to the future growth earnings of broadcom, Apple and indirectly Inari.

Only kids think if you sell one can of coke you get rm1, so if you sell a crate of coke you will get the same price as well.

Real world economics and story land rarely work so easy.

Probably why people who can't do, they teach and talk theory.

While those who can't teach theory, they sell online pdf documents.

Investing is rarely straightforward.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:06 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:06 | Report Abuse

What KC says are valid downside of insas loh...!!

But right here i m not saying an outsider trying to unlock value on insas, but the insider owner trying to maximise value on insas and the consequence he indirectly unlocking value mah....!!

The key to this happen is the expiry of insas warrant in 20-2-2020 loh....!!

They is a high chance mkt will rerate too loh...!!

AS USUAL IF U WANT TO BUYOUT THE COMPANY, U WILL RATHER KEEP SHARE PRICE LOW MAH....THATS WHY THE MINORITY SHAREHOLDER FRUSTRATED LOH...!!

THUS INSAS INVESTOR JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT LOH...!!


KC COMMENT,
Conclusions

Deep value investing is not easy. It requires patience, and a lot of patience. It is not for the faint hearted. Insas has been undervalued for a long time. A catalyst may be required to unlock the value. Fund managers and institutional investors will not be able to endure it as they will be long fired by their investors before value is unlocked due to their temporary under-performance. Most individual investors also have no stomach for it. They will be laughed at by others embarking in this strategy as it does look stupid at times. But if a stock is way undervalued, not only by 10%, 20%, or even 50%, but a much larger discount such as 72% as that of Insas, the probability of success is higher. Of course, nothing is certain in this world. But at least the chance of losing money is very slim as the extreme cheapness and quality assets would have taken care of this. Insas has also been providing satisfactory return over the years, and it is likely continue to do so even if the deep value is not unlocked.

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:14 | Report Abuse

That is true, but on the otherhand, u cannot buy much substantial of insas without raising up the share price of insas up like a rocket loh.....!!

U need to ask whether there is catalyst for demand for INSAS....and raider see YES loud & clear the date is in FEB 2020 a few months from now b4 big action will start loh...!!

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 4:07 PM | Report Abuse

It does not have to be 10 times

That is not my point

My point is that when come to controlling stake, don't take market value as the realisable value

In most cases, controlling stake carries a premium. But in this case, it becomes a liability as unlike a portfolio stake, you can't realise it's value by unloading in market


Posted by Sslee > Jul 20, 2019 3:44 PM | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
Mr. Market is like Donald Trump keep changing his mind. So I am more interest to know your thought process why you give Inari PE of 10. I am trying to learn.

Thank you

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:24 | Report Abuse

Even If i take icon arguement is correct & he wins on inari....again don forget Insas has a net cash of Rm 550 million or Rm 0.80 per share beside inari investment, don tell me the net cash here equivalent to the whole mkt capitalization of insas Rm 560m has no value ??

Obvious logic INSAS is undervalue mah....!!

Simple arithmetic primary fellow understand loh...!!

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 20, 2019 2:38 PM | Report Abuse

If the 20% inari controlling stake is put up for sale at current price, will there be a buyer ?

If the answer is yes, insas is indeed undervalued

If the answer is no, maybe it is not so undervalued after all

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:31 | Report Abuse

INVESTORS OF INSAS SHOULD BE HIGHLY CONFIDENT OF INSAS POTENTIAL TO MAKE GOOD MONIES LOH....!!

THE ONLY ISSUE THEY SHOULD FEAR, IS HOW LONG I NEED TO WAIT ONLY MAH...!!

THIS IS BCOS, THE HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY THE TRUE VALUE & QUALITY ASSETS IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 16:35 | Report Abuse

Take care of the downside, let the upside takes care of itself.

What we are afraid of is if the value takes a long time to unlock, value may erode, such as in a business with persistence huge losses, burning cash in its operations, or management embarking on overvalued acquisitions, or squander away the cash it has, failed business ventures, or other shareholder value destroying activities. I my opinion, Insas does not belong to this category. Having different stocks with different return drivers in a diversified portfolio is also a smart strategy in investing.

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 4:31 PM | Report Abuse X

INVESTORS OF INSAS SHOULD BE HIGHLY CONFIDENT OF INSAS POTENTIAL TO MAKE GOOD MONIES LOH....!!

THE ONLY ISSUE THEY SHOULD FEAR, IS HOW LONG I NEED TO WAIT ONLY MAH...!!

THIS IS BCOS, THE HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY THE TRUE VALUE & QUALITY ASSETS IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-20 17:34 | Report Abuse

Already proven that Insas hathaway is even better than berkshire hathaway loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jul 20, 2019 5:02 PM | Report Abuse X

BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY (B) Balance Sheet 31.3.2019
Total Assets 738,724 m
Total Equity 368,877 m V MKT CAP 527,260M.
THERE IS NO MARGIN OF SAFETY FOR BERKSHIRE BASED ON BOOK VALUE.

INSAS HATHAWAY (B) Balance Sheet 31.3.2019
Total Assets 2,357 m
Total Equity 1,724 m REMEMBER MKT CAP ONLY RM 562M.

INSAS HAS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY OR UNDERVALUATION OF RM 1162M COMPARE TO BERKSHIRE TRADING AT A PREMIUM LOH....!!

C) BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY ROA & ROE
ROA = 23,398 / 738,724 = 3.17%
ROE = 23,398 / 368,877 = 6.34%

C) INSAS HATHAWAY ROA & ROE
ROA = 120.09 / 2,357 = 5.09%
ROE = 120.09 / 1,724 = 6.96%

INSAS ROE AND ROA IS MORE SUPERIOR THAN BERKSHIRE MEANING INSAS PERFORMANCE IS AS GOOD AS BERKSHIRE IF NOT BETTER LOH...!!

(D) BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY Valuation
P/E = 527,260 / 23,398 = 22.5x
P/BV = 527,260 / 368,877 = 1.43

FCF yield = 21,739.6 / 527,260 = 4.12%

(D) INSAS HATHAWAY Valuation
P/E = 561.6 / 120.09 = 4.7x
P/BV = 561.6 / 1,724 = 0.3255

FCF yield = 24.6 / 561.60 = 4.38%

VALUATION WISE INSAS BEAT BERKSHIRE ON BETTER PE, LOWER PRICE TO BV AND HIGHER FREECASH FLOW YIELD.


FINAL CONCLUSION; INSAS HAS A MORE SUPERIOR VALUATION THAN BERKSHIRE AND MUCH HIGHER MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...!!

THUS WE CAN SAY INSAS IS AS GOOD AS BERKSHIRE LOH...!!

Posted by popo92 > Jul 20, 2019 5:07 PM | Report Abuse

Investor would not give inari and insas same PE. Businesss model isn’t the same. What I don’t like about Insas is their business model to buy and hold market fund assets. Is it creating value periodically by investing stock market? Are they making more right decision other than inari? Do they have More than enough funds to acquire more investment if they given dividends? Can they create value organically?
Even investments insas is holding is worth more... there’s no cash flow created.... unless management is very good in Investing, then it might be a mini Berkshire... me myself is not convincing...

Posted by lizi > Jul 20, 2019 5:12 PM | Report Abuse

insas business is selling inari over the long time.....it is same like selling nasi lemak at the road side....nothing exciting....no surprise...

Posted by shortinvestor77 > 2019-07-20 17:38 | Report Abuse

How many lots of Insas stockraider you have now?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:05 | Report Abuse

Very well said, thats why my insas & charles MNRB beat Philip overvalue QL Pe 50x todate loh...!!

U cannot go far wrong with huge margin of safety investment mah..!!

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 21, 2019 8:24 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 21, 2019 8:00 AM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz
JCBNEXT?
is the company fully valued? or richly valued?
if you invest in any fully valued company, your growth factor will be economic growth itself.
Fully valued companies tend to nose dive in price during recessions and fluctuate with market sentiment.
Is JCBNEXT at an all time low to warrant a writeup?
Only you can answer these questions.

From your questions, you seem to be in the same page as me in this respect. I believe that is one of the good ways in investing; what is its price, what is its value. A great company which is worth say RM10 won't be a great investment if it is sold at RM20. A mediocre company which is worth RM1.00 may be a great investment if it is sold at 28 sen.

That is what we can control in our investing, to find out what is the value of the company and compare with its price. Other things such as if a controlling stake would be sold at a premium or a discount, we won't know, although we know it is normally sold at a premium.

But the introduction of this JOBNEXT was by someone else giving a comment in this thread, not from me. He has given a link to it in his comment. I only concur with him.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:07 | Report Abuse

MUST BE FLEXIBLE & LEARN AND READ INSAS DEVELOPMENT LOH...!!
WHY MISCONCEPTION ABOUT INSAS LEH ??

The question that you need to answer which both sslee and kcchongz has not given:

1. Why is INSAS so "undervalued" for so long? As a m&a securities firm, it would be easy to get IB attention. Why don't they buy shares in INSAS?
This is a very simple question with a very complex answer.
Parkson is a 200 million company with 2 billion assets. You know exactly why the share price tanked. With so many good things being promote by kcchongz and sslee you would think you are buying a rm2 company instead of 80 cents. SIMPLE ANS IS THE OWNER HOLDING A VERY UNDERVALUE STOCK WITH ONLY 32.9% HOLDING, WHY HE NEED TO PROMOTE INSAS AND THIS MY ATTRACT PREDATOR MAH ?? IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME LOH..!!

2. What is INSAS cash flow going to look like 5-10 years from now? Where will it come from, how probable is it to calculate, how many assumptions do you have to make for it to come true? INSAS BUSINESS IS LIKE BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY, I SEE 3 CATEGORIES OF INSAS CORE BUSINESS;
A. CORE BUSINESS OF LENDING, STOCKBROKING, & CORPORATE ADVISORY WHICH WORTH NTA OF RM 1.00 PER SHARE.
B. CORE BUSINESS OF INVESTMENT (EXCLUDE INARI} INCLUDE PRIVATE EQUITY, VENTURE CAPITALIST, CORE INVESTMENT INTO LISTED COMPANY SHARE AND MANAGING & OWNING UNLISTED COMPANY WITH GOOD PROSPECT AND GENERAL INVESTMENT INTO SECURITIES & BONDS AND CASH & TREASURY MANAGEMENT- THIS THE AREA WHERE WARREN BUFFET USUALLY HANDLE AT BERKSHIRE & IT IS WORTH RM 1.30 PER SHARE NTA
C. STRATEGIC HOLDING OF ASSOCIATE INARI INSAS BIGGEST LISTED COMPANY INVESTMENT WORTH ABOUT MARK TO MARKET RM 0.90 PER SHARE .

INSAS EARN RM 60M TO 80M ON THESE 3 CORE BUSINESS LOH...!!

3.These are simple questions with a very very complicated answer. This is why Peter lynch and Warren buffet loves simple businesses with durable competitive advantage. It is very easy to predict something with accuracy when there little assumptions to make. NOT COMPLICATED 2B ALREADY ANSWER...THIS BCOS THONG HAS QUALITY TO MANAGE INSAS LIKE BERKSHIRE MAH...!!

4.I buy eggs, rubber gloves, government contracts, and boat charter companies simply because it is easy to project future earnings.YES ARE ACTUALLY ACTING LIKE INSAS TOO, WHY DO U BUY INTO TOPGLOVES, YINSON, GKENT, QL, PCHEM WHERE ALL THESE BUSINESS IS TOTALLY UNRELATED LEH ??
INSAS MR THONG HAS THE QUALITY & SKILL TO INVEST FOR LONG TERM.

5.SAME MAH,IF U ASK INSAS THONG HE CAN JUSTIFY ALL THE INVESTMENT LIKE U, BCOS HE MAKE RM 60M TO RM 80M PA FOR INSAS IN THE PAST 10 YRS.
QL, I have 100 stores today, I know they will have 300 stores in 3 years time as part of the franchise contract, therefore I can predict earnings with clarity.
Rubber gloves I know the world market is growing 10% a year, and topglov has a 25% market share. All I need to understand is will someone else take market share from them? If not, their long term growth and earnings are very straightforward knowable.
Gkent I know for a fact they have a 11 billion contract coming in. I know their profit margins as PDP. I know their profit margins now as fixed price main contractor. I know where their cash flow will be coming in from 5 years from now. I need to worry about other things like management ability to perform.

6.MOST PEOPLE LIKE PHILIP DO NOT UNDERSTAND PHILIP THAT INSAS IS A WELL MANAGE COMPANY CAN SIMPLY SAYS LOH...THE RECORD SHOWS INSAS HAS MAKING GOOD PROFIT FOR PAST 10 YRS AND IT IS CREATING VALUE THATS WHY NTA RM 2.54 PER SHARE, EVEN HIGHER THAN QL LOH..!!

7.For INSAS it is incredibly DIFFICULT to predict future earnings because they themselves do not have a clear direction where they have a big market share, so they try everything to see what sticks.
The real money is in predicting the future. But yes I respect everyone's opinion. Everyone has value ( even raider). But since money is my own, I make my own decisions. INVESTMENT IS NOT ONLY PREDICT THE FUTURE LOH, U LOOK AT YOUR SKILL AND COMPETENCE, THE RESOURCES AND ASSETS U HAVE, U STILL CREATE GREAT VALUE & RETURN MAH...!!

8.INSAS IS NOT SPECULATING THE FUTURE, IT IS LOOKING AT PRESENT VALUE OF INSAS EXCEEDING RM 3.00 V SHARE PRICE RM 0.80, THERE IS HUGE MARGIN OF SAFETY AND IT IS RUN BY A COMPETENT OWNER LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:08 | Report Abuse

INVESTING IN INSAS IS DEALING WITH UNCERTAINTY IN A VERY SMART WAY LOH.....!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 21, 2019 11:41 AM | Report Abuse

KC and OTB cannot deal with uncertainties and cannot deal with disagreements............To them, only people who prays at their feet, who eats out of their hand are qualified to talk about stock market.

I say two fingers to you both....................

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:10 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:10 | Report Abuse

Opportunity coming for insas, it is kambing...just a few more mths loh...!!

Boilermech is not as safe as Insas mah...!!

Btw people like Philip & 3iii will be laughing at u on your boiler mech pick, these people despise smallcap loh...!!

Raider think boilermech is a good stock loh....but not as good as insas loh....!!

Assuming boilermech. keep earnings..how long do u think boilermech can reach insas nta of Rm 2.54 per share, even we assume insas not making money {which is unlikely} just waiting for boilermech to catch up leh ??

Posted by cheoky > Jul 21, 2019 5:54 PM | Report Abuse

practise second level thinking pls.

after heavy discourse on insas by famous stockraider, sslee and kc buffet, insas still lingering there. Rumour of major holders thinking insas is dirt cheap yet market still stagnant the price. no more new value investor will go in. at least this year.

pls discourse more on boilermech, give same dividend, net cash and having a growing and bright future and selling cheaper than insas per unit. plus, i got vest invested. I will help you promote more. Mr Chia together Philip Fisher will work hard to ensure it too. Ms Yeo will love you too.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:11 | Report Abuse

The art of taking profit loh....!!

If insas want buy back inari....can get back cheaper today what ??

This prove Insas very savvy like berkshire hathaway loh...!!

Posted by i3lurker > Jul 21, 2019 11:30 PM | Report Abuse

interest in Inari has been diluted from 20.2% to 19.1%, why sell the golden goose laying the golden eggs?

and I believe in the last Q (as far as I remember), RM50 million was consumed.

All is not well in paradise?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-22 00:11 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by (S=QR) Philip > 2019-07-22 00:43 | Report Abuse

Raider, you realize the more you as info about INSAS, the worse the company sounds right? You are trying too hard to convince and win every argument.

1. You concept here is basically saying that INSAS management care more about themselves than the shareholders of the company. This might be a valid reason why no one wants to buy INSAS shares. When shareholders can see that the company has money ( no idea why in Australia) but chooses to give poor earnings for every dollar of RETAINED earnings, they should give it back to the shareholders. Hoarding cash, investing in cash burning startups, not giving returns to shareholders via dividends and share buybacks is a quick method to destroy confidence in the company.

I totally agree.

2. If 5 years from now, INSAS is only making 60-80 million, from a net asset economic business value of 1.7 billion, on such a risky business model as lending, stockbroker, private equity, startups then I think I have better things in life to do.

Raider has no ability to understand risk versus returns.

That is why he thinks INSAS is better than Berkshire.

But cannot expect too much from sorchai who thinks hengyuan is worth rm35.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>


MUST BE FLEXIBLE & LEARN AND READ INSAS DEVELOPMENT LOH...!!
WHY MISCONCEPTION ABOUT INSAS LEH ??

The question that you need to answer which both sslee and kcchongz has not given:

1. Why is INSAS so "undervalued" for so long? As a m&a securities firm, it would be easy to get IB attention. Why don't they buy shares in INSAS?
This is a very simple question with a very complex answer.
Parkson is a 200 million company with 2 billion assets. You know exactly why the share price tanked. With so many good things being promote by kcchongz and sslee you would think you are buying a rm2 company instead of 80 cents. SIMPLE ANS IS THE OWNER HOLDING A VERY UNDERVALUE STOCK WITH ONLY 32.9% HOLDING, WHY HE NEED TO PROMOTE INSAS AND THIS MY ATTRACT PREDATOR MAH ?? IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME LOH..!!

2. What is INSAS cash flow going to look like 5-10 years from now? Where will it come from, how probable is it to calculate, how many assumptions do you have to make for it to come true? INSAS BUSINESS IS LIKE BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY, I SEE 3 CATEGORIES OF INSAS CORE BUSINESS;
A. CORE BUSINESS OF LENDING, STOCKBROKING, & CORPORATE ADVISORY WHICH WORTH NTA OF RM 1.00 PER SHARE.
B. CORE BUSINESS OF INVESTMENT (EXCLUDE INARI} INCLUDE PRIVATE EQUITY, VENTURE CAPITALIST, CORE INVESTMENT INTO LISTED COMPANY SHARE AND MANAGING & OWNING UNLISTED COMPANY WITH GOOD PROSPECT AND GENERAL INVESTMENT INTO SECURITIES & BONDS AND CASH & TREASURY MANAGEMENT- THIS THE AREA WHERE WARREN BUFFET USUALLY HANDLE AT BERKSHIRE & IT IS WORTH RM 1.30 PER SHARE NTA
C. STRATEGIC HOLDING OF ASSOCIATE INARI INSAS BIGGEST LISTED COMPANY INVESTMENT WORTH ABOUT MARK TO MARKET RM 0.90 PER SHARE .

INSAS EARN RM 60M TO 80M ON THESE 3 CORE BUSINESS LOH...!!

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-22 07:48 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
Sorry to see so many comments till late night and early morning. Please take care of your sleep.

Financial end 30th June 2018 annual report:
A. Deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions consist of the following:-
- fixed deposits 327,850,000
- short term deposits 244,853,000
Deposits placed with licensed banks and financial institutions amounting to RM228,902,000 (2017:RM229,885,000) of the Group are pledged to licensed banks and financial institutions as security for banking and credit facilities granted to the Group.
Deposits placed with a licensed bank amounting to RM1,193,000 (2017: RM1,162,000) of the Company is pledged as security for credit facilities granted to the Company.

Included in the cash and bank balances of the Group are:-
(a) an amount of RM486,000 (2017: RM477,000) maintained pursuant to Section 7A of the Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act, 1966 and are restricted from use in other operations. The withdrawal of funds from the housing development account is restricted to cost incurred in respect of the development project.
(b) an amount of RM25,112,000 (2017: RM40,363,000) are pledged to certain licensed banks and financial institutions for banking facilities granted to the Group.

B. ASSOCIATE COMPANIES (RM)
Quoted shares in Malaysia, at cost 164,559,000
Unquoted shares in Malaysia, at cost 7,560,000
Unquoted shares outside Malaysia, at cost 27,158,000
Group’s share of post acquisition:
- profits less losses 94,764,000
- reserves 67,748,000
Less:-Accumulated impairment loss
- unquoted shares (4,161,000)
Total: 357,628,000
Represented by:-
Share of net assets 277,652,000
Goodwill on acquisition 79,976,000
Market value of quoted shares in Malaysia: 1,376,569,000
Note: On 29th June 2018: Market price Inari: RM2.26. HoHup: RM0.48
On 28th June 2019: Market price Inari: RM 1.60. HoHup: RM 0.525

C. Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss RM 236,562,000
Quoted securities, at market value
- in Malaysia 57,744,00. Gross dividend received RM 2,750,000
- outside Malaysia 178,818,000. Gross dividend received RM 6,797,000
The Group’s financial assets at fair value through profit or loss amounting to RM200,055,000 (2017: RM248,709,000) are pledged to certain licensed banks and financial institutions for banking facilities granted to the Group.
Quoted securities outside Malaysia: USA: RM 44,468,000. Singapore: RM 93,362,000. EU: RM 1,835,000. UK: RM 4,784,000. Australia: RM 6,045,000. HK: RM 23,373,000. Others: RM 4,951,000

D. Trade receivables: 376,481,000
- Of which Aggregate amount of outstanding loans as at 30 June 2018 by Insas Credit & Leasing Sdn Bhd: RM 208,135,000

9 months end 31th March 2019: After-tax-profit RM 64,192,000. Q4? (Inari positive, M&A positive, ICL positive, Investment finger crossed)
No matter how I present the facts and figures many will still twists and turn the facts and figures to suit their confirmation bias. But fortunately many big fund and institutional holders are investors of Inari. Hence I take it as holding 1 Insas is equal to indirectly holding 0.91 Inari share, is this alone good enough for me buying into Insas? Will everyone happy now?

Thank you
P/S: Bank Deposit in Australia is mean for a business investment but that business investment did not materialized thus remain as bank deposit because if remitted back to Malaysia it will take a lot of paper works (Central Bank) to remit out to invest outside Malaysia again (miss opportunity).